Shimano E8000 range

[Rockyw]

Love my 2019 Merida E 160 900E but am concerned a about the range I am getting. Only done a dozen rides, and I can't even get close to Shimano's suggested 100 km range in trail mode. i would be happy with half that. I leave it in trail mode and I do push it pretty hard, trying to go as fast as I can, but 34 km to 38 km is all I can get out of my battery. Just wondering what range others are getting out of the Shimano E 8000 when your pushing it ?

 

[R120]

100KM on the flat maybe - Elevation of your ride is the biggest factor on range, after how much you weigh. Riding up hills is what kills the battery.

 

[Eckythump]

Trail mode is great, it does have a downside though. It will throw in loads of assist if you get to a hill, stay in the same gear and mash the pedals. This technique effortlessly eats through the battery.
If you use the bikes gears and try to keep the bar graph along the bottom of the display rather than up the right hand side it makes a big difference to your range (also encourages you to do your bit).

 

[ChrisB NZ]

You wouldn't get 100km in trail mode except maybe on a flat road taking it easy. On a full battery, the computer says 75km range in trail.

I typically ride in trail mode 90% of the time. On a ride in the forest, I typically ride 30-35km with a mix of uphills and downhills. I usually have around 25km's range left on trail at the end. So maybe a 50-60 km range. I'm about 80Kg and I'm not pushing it super hard.

The terrain makes a big difference. What I've also found is that riding up a long hill in boost will kill the battery life pretty quickly - but it recovers. I can be showing 2 bars of battery life with say 20 Kms range in trail, and then after a big climb in boost for say 5 mins, the battery display turns red and my trail range drops to about 5 Kms. But if I turn the bike off, after a few minutes the range will go up again. So I guess the battery recovers from the big drain.

 

[Gary]

Lithium ion batteries don't miraculously recover all by themselves.
The battery guage reading just isn't very accurate.

fit fast rolling tyres and whack them up to 80psi and you can ride on the flat at 12mph all day long without the motor. As said it's gradient that causes the fastest battery drain same as it's gradient that cause muscle fatigue and energy loss without a motor. (actually and accelerations but if distance riding is your thing it's not going to be a huge factor).

Personally I don't really get a lot of the fuss about trying to eek out big mileage rides from the battery. 100k is a bloody long mtb ride and if it was flat it'd also be shite. If I wanted to do 100 flat km I'd just go out on my effortless to pedal on the flat roadbike.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

I

Lithium ion batteries don't miraculously recover all by themselves.
The battery guage reading just isn't very accurate.

fit fast rolling tyres and whack them up to 80psi and you can ride on the flat at 12mph all day long without the motor. As said it's gradient that causes the fastest battery drain same as it's gradient that cause muscle fatigue and energy loss without a motor. (actually and accelerations but if distance riding is your thing it's not going to be a huge factor).

Personally I don't really get a lot of the fuss about trying to eek out big mileage rides from the battery. 100k is a bloody long mtb ride and if it was flat it'd also be shite. If I wanted to do 100 flat km I'd just go out on my effortless to pedal on the flat roadbike.

I wouldn't be so sure re the batteries. Sure the gauges aren't that accurate but that doesn't explain why the estimated range improves drastically when you leave the bike off for a while with the same battery. The bike computer will be monitoring the battery voltage and probably current drain over time to estimate range. It may be that the computer is estimating range based on the voltage drop and/or current drawn over the last x minutes and then resets that when the bike is turned off and then just uses voltage to estimate range. Or it could be that the battery voltage drops with hard use and then recovers somewhat. But I'd need a battery guru to verify that.

 

[EbikeTom]

Love my 2019 Merida E 160 900E but am concerned a about the range I am getting. Only done a dozen rides, and I can't even get close to Shimano's suggested 100 km range in trail mode. i would be happy with half that. I leave it in trail mode and I do push it pretty hard, trying to go as fast as I can, but 34 km to 38 km is all I can get out of my battery. Just wondering what range others are getting out of the Shimano E 8000 when your pushing it ?

I’m getting similar distances to you, initially I thought there was an issue, but it seems to be about normal. I can manage 40km / 2000m, spending most of the day in eco with chunky tires and normal pressures.

 

[Gary]

You don't need a battery guru to tell you that a battery doesn't miraculously recharge itself without plugging in some sort of charger., A flat earther might be a better bet to help you with that theory. .

The range indicator will just be running an algorythm based on voltages/current to "estimate" range.
don't worry too much about it, the more you ride the more you will know how much mileage/elevation you're likely to get.

 

[R120]

I have a feeling that if you are getting low on battery, and turn off the bike and the turn it back on it resets the "trip computer" and as such when you get going again recalculates the remaining range based of how you ride post switching it back on. I guess this would be most noticeable if coming off boost, then switching back on into Eco.

I don't know the ins and outs, but i have been down to 2 bars, stopped for a coffee with the bike off, then it go briefly back up to 3 bars on the display when i started off again. Might just be a software glitch though.

All i really know is i can get about 25 miles out of mine locally without worrying, mostly in trail with eco here and there, and can get close to 30 miles with more eco thrown in the mix.

 

[Gary]

I don't know the ins and outs, but i have been down to 2 bars, stopped for a coffee with the bike off, then it go briefly back up to 3 bars on the display when i started off again. Might just be a software glitch though.

Except for not liking coffee almost the exact same thing happened to me last week
Earl Grey and toast FTW

 

[R120]

Both these rides i had just hit red when finishing, prob 70% of each ride in trail. I am around 14 stone with riding kit on. Bike is a Vitus E-Sommett.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

You don't need a battery guru to tell you that a battery doesn't miraculously recharge itself without plugging in some sort of charger., A flat earther might be a better bet to help you with that theory. .

The range indicator will just be running an algorythm based on voltages/current to "estimate" range.
don't worry too much about it, the more you ride the more you will know how much mileage/elevation you're likely to get.

I didn't say it miraculously recharged itself. I said the battery voltage drops under load and then recovers. That's a completely different thing. It is after all a chemical reaction. This happens with lead acid batteries as an example.

 

[Gary]

I know. it still doesn't really change range though. just what the display shows

 

[AlwaysOff]

Try a battery reset.
Fully charge battery, remove it from bike, press and hold power button until all the lights go out then put it back on the bike and on charge.

I did this after my e8000 wasn't performing half as good as my Bosch and it worked a treat.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

I was right re voltage drop. Rapid discharge in first phase and then voltage recovery in the next phase. It's called relaxation. Estimating remaining capacity in a Li Ion battery is well studied due to the importance for electric vehicle range etc.

 

[Gary]

No one's arguing voltages drop and rise under load/rest. It still doesn't increase actual battery range

 

[ChrisB NZ]

No one's arguing voltages drop and rise under load/rest. It still doesn't increase actual battery range

No - but it does explain why your estimated range on the display is wrong.

 

[Gary]

i never ever look at it
As I explained. It's just an estimate. and not very accurate.

 

[mark.ai]

Love my 2019 Merida E 160 900E but am concerned a about the range I am getting. Only done a dozen rides, and I can't even get close to Shimano's suggested 100 km range in trail mode. i would be happy with half that. I leave it in trail mode and I do push it pretty hard, trying to go as fast as I can, but 34 km to 38 km is all I can get out of my battery. Just wondering what range others are getting out of the Shimano E 8000 when your pushing it ?

Do you know what sort of elevation gain you have on a ride? And what sort of cadence you tend to use?

 

[GOSBTS]

I weigh 95kg and i get about 1,000m of climbing out of a full battery mostly running on trail mode with a bit of eco thrown in.

 

[Kev Henson]

on a scott e genius but same motor, 14% left on the battery or acording to the range guesstimate 4 miles, eco on the flats & trail on the hills, 82kg ish in kit, no idea if its good or bad but its fun

 

[Rockyw]

Do you know what sort of elevation gain you have on a ride? And what sort of cadence you tend to use?

Elevation gain was 744 meters, rode 34.88 km and battery ran out at about 33 km. Total ride time was 2 hours and 1 minute, all in trail until the battery died. Don't know what my cadence was, but it was fast, as I was trying to get another E bike KOM.

 

[mark.ai]

Elevation gain was 744 meters, rode 34.88 km and battery ran out at about 33 km. Total ride time was 2 hours and 1 minute, all in trail until the battery died. Don't know what my cadence was, but it was fast, as I was trying to get another E bike KOM.

That does sound a bit on the low side to me as well, but not massively so. And it sounds like you're getting consistently similar results. I'd be wondering about them if I was seeing the same - which probably doesn't reassure you!

I wonder how much effect the ground surface could be having, e.g. if the whole ride was over soft sand or something. Do you always tend to ride over the same surface? Maybe try a whole ride on a hard surfaced road for comparison if it doesn't bore you

I'm also thinking about any down hill sections you do - do you keep pedalling when going down hill and with motor assistance still on (i.e. under the 32km/h (?) in NZ) ? For instance where I am, when I've gone up a hill, then I'm mostly free wheeling down the other side or pedalling past the motor assistance, so down hills are "free" for me.

Am I right in thinking the assist limit is 32km/h there or is it 25km/h? Or are you even running derestricted? If the limit is higher then the motor could be running more of the time, and actually having the effect of reducing distance? Which sounds a bizarre thing to imagine being true, but it could make some difference maybe?

 

[Rockyw]

Well looks like that didn't work, how do you post Strava ride data ?

That does sound a bit on the low side to me as well, but not massively so. And it sounds like you're getting consistently similar results. I'd be wondering about them if I was seeing the same - which probably doesn't reassure you!

I wonder how much effect the ground surface could be having, e.g. if the whole ride was over soft sand or something. Do you always tend to ride over the same surface? Maybe try a whole ride on a hard surfaced road for comparison if it doesn't bore you

I'm also thinking about any down hill sections you do - do you keep pedalling when going down hill and with motor assistance still on (i.e. under the 32km/h (?) in NZ) ? For instance where I am, when I've gone up a hill, then I'm mostly free wheeling down the other side or pedalling past the motor assistance, so down hills are "free" for me.

Am I right in thinking the assist limit is 32km/h there or is it 25km/h? Or are you even running de restricted? If the limit is higher then the motor could be running more of the time, and actually having the effect of reducing distance? Which sounds a bizarre thing to imagine being true, but it could make some difference maybe?

The speed limit put on the bikes by the manufacturers here in NZ is 32 Km/hr on Shimano, Brose, & Yamaha motors, but if your unlucky enough to buy a Bosch motor, they are still restricted to 25 km/h, at the current time.
There is currently no legal speed limit for peddle assist bikes in NZ only normal road speed limits, only a motor restriction of maximum 250 watts.
It is the manufacturers who are applying the speed limits on the bikes, either 25 km/hr for Euro sourced bikes and 32 km/hr for US sourced bikes when they come into NZ.
Ground surface is mainly pumice based around the Taupo area where I am based. I normally try to pedal down hill to get to the limit of 32 km and then free wheel for down hills where possible. Recently I have derestricted the bike with a badass box, which doesn't appear to have made a huge difference to the battery life, as I only got slightly less range on the same ride after derestriction. Admittedly, I do try to go as fast as I can at the moment, as I am trying to get more E bike KOM's on Strava.

 

[Rockyw]

Just got a reply from Shimano Steps support. I asked them if I could possibly have a dud battery, as their site says an average of 100km can be achieved in trail mode, actual outcomes may vary due to terrain and wind etc. That's fine, but I think I would struggle to get 50 km even if i slowed down. They said after my next battery charge, to put the mode to trail, and ride at a moderate pace at a higher cadence to see if range is extended.

 

[Gary]

Elevation gain was 744 meters, rode 34.88 km and battery ran out at about 33 km. Total ride time was 2 hours and 1 minute, all in trail until the battery died. Don't know what my cadence was, but it was fast, as I was trying to get another E bike KOM.

Ok so converted for my UK brain to make sense of you managed 2440ft elevation in 20 miles with an average speed of 10mph. what average speed would you manage on the same ride on a normal mtb?
What was the terrain? you say pumice? is this hardpack? or loose gravel? technical? smooth? dry or wet?
What was the overall profile of the ride, lots of sharp climbs or longer steady gradients?
You don't know what your cadence was? surely you know if you were ushing high gearing or spinning low gearing while climbing though?
How did you climb? fast as you could every where?
Where was the (green) assist bar on the display mostly sitting while pedalling? full? almost full? from what you're saying it sounds like it would have been pretty high the entire time you were pedalling.
What tyres? width? compound? pressures?
What do you weigh incl all kit?

and lastly why are you so concerned with getting meaningless KOMs on an asisted bike? some riders might be in Eco while others might be in Boost or have an entirely different system. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Rockyw]

Hi Gary, terrain is hard pack with loose pumice on top which was dry. Lots of sharp climbs and hairpin turns. Used the gears a a lot, regularly spinning lower gearing on the climbs, climbing as fast as possible. Wasn't taking much notice of the green assist bar as you have to be watching where your going. Tyres are both 2.8 wide Maxis DHR. Weight 82 KG including back pack.

Trying to knock off KOM's are to push myself to become a better faster rider. If I see a KOM time set by another E bike rider, especially if he is in the same age group as myself, I go out to see if I can beat it, keeps me interested. Without the motivation of Strava I probabaly would have given up Mountain biking ages ago.

On my unassisted mountain bike a Yeti SB5, have never ridden this track both ways, as it would be too tiring. I have ridden half of the track on the Yeti, and best time was 1 hour 16 minutes.

 

[Gary]

• loose pumice on top which was dry
• Lots of sharp climbs
• hairpin turns.
• climbing as fast as possible.
• Wasn't taking much notice of the green assist bar as you have to be watching where your going.
• Tyres are both 2.8 wide Maxis DHR

Looks like these are your main culprits
not a lot you can do aboot the loose steep surface but climbing steeper gradients and loose terrain as fast as possible drains the battery massively compared to taking it steady and keeping the assist level bar low.
Your tyres aren't doing your battery consumption any favours either. Espcially if they're a soft compound and you run low pressures.

I'm a few kilos heavier than you and the fastest battery drain I've ever had was in just one hour with just under 3000ft of climbing in 9 miles. This was climbing straight up to the top of a DH track to do laps where half the climb was mellow fireroad and the other half super steep and very soft and lacking grip in places all climbing in Boost but not all near the top end of the assist bar and pretty much zero pedalling on the steep DH tracks and I don't use large draggy tyres.
If I really wanted to I'm fairly confident I could manage to use an entire 504wh battery in less distance and a good chunk less elevation if i were just to climb as fast as possible in steep soft terrain with no mellow fireroad and staying at the top end of assist in Trail. But usually even in steeper areas I'll get around 4-4500ft of climbing and 16-20miles out of one being more sensible about how I ride. (using Eco, trail AND boost), and way more when I choose to ride with the motor off at times. in mellower less hilly areas my distance range doubles but elevation remains right around the same 4000ft+

Hope some of my waffle is useful to you.
also. don't discount the battery useage from pedalling DH or on the flat now you have the BAbox fitted.

Seems crazy to me whenever I hear about anyone caring about a Strava climbing segment on an Ebike but thanks for explaining. If you want to become a better faster rider trying to use less assistance and focus on skills, line choice and smoothness to shave time off descent segments descending times might actually be a better option. Properly fast descenders round here would destroy most Ebike riders down a descent barely taking a single pedal stroke.

or just buy an extra battery

 

[Rockyw]

Thanks Gary

 

[mark.ai]

Considering a 500Wh battery - that should give you say 1 hour of 500W assist, or 2 hours of 250W assist, or 4 hours of 125W assist etc.

So your example ride of 2 hours 1 min which used the whole battery must be averaging around that 250W assist mark. And that almost exactly matches the 250W continuous power rating for these type of motors - which I find interesting.

And like Gary says you can probably drain a battery inside an hour if you keep the assist bar at the top of it's range on the display (and have enough steep hill to keep going up).

So to increase the range and ride time it sounds like you need to decrease the average assistance so it lasts longer. Which in your case is the opposite of what you want

Maybe concentrate on just 1 or 2 KOMs per ride, and in between those either take it slightly easier or lower the assistance speed limit or lower the assistance level (to eco or a lower variant of trail). In fact I wonder which trail mode you are set to currently (low, medium, high)? If you are on high trail (110% assist) and switched to low trail (70% assist) for most of the ride apart from the KOM segments that might gain you an extra 50% range (just guessing!!)

Or go with an extra battery and use max e-powah as much as you want (or longer anyway)