Extreme enduro I wonder if they do an ebike class?

[Krisj]

Holy sh#t this is extreme

 

[highpeakrider]

Having reviewed the first 5 mins, i'll pass on that......LOL

 

[Kernow]

I’ve seen ebike classes at lots of enduros ,and some surprisingly good riders too , I think I was expecting old farts like me , no fit young riders that could also do well on normal bikes .
Most of it though on stuff like that above is about downhill speed so Ebikes can’t keep up due to speed restriction , the extreme level often depends on weather . The recent FOD mini enduro would have been a nice fairly easy ride , that was turned into a really difficult /impossible ride for some due to lots of rain .

 

[bissona]

Would love to race (maybe not the Megavalanche!) but controlling the level of electric assistance would be a nightmare for any organiser.

The only way to do it would be for the organiser to own and allocate the hardware (arrive & drive scheme), but even that has its pitfalls.

I can see a box rule system working for 'factory' teams but for us mere mortals it would turn into chequebook racing almost immediately.

 

[AlwaysOff]

Can honestly say that I'd last 3 seconds of doing that and I'd be off, just looks mental though dunnit?!

 

[bikerider007]

Yup looks like they do an ebike entry now here is the 2019 blurb ....
(For those who would still ignore it, the Megavalanche Alpe d’Huez is one of the most famous and not-to-be missed DH marathon race.
Since 1995, each year, thousands of riders take the departure from the famous “Pic Blanc” ; in every weather condition ! Its Mass Start at 3330 meters high on the glacier and its finish line in Allemont, 2600 meters down, makes this DH Marathon race the longest and craziest race in the world !
In addition to this race will be held the MEGA KID, especially for children, and the MEGA FAMILY Challenge. Electric Bike riders will also be pleased with a specific qualifying with a climbing and the race on the Glacier!)

"at least you cant say there is not enough downhill"

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

The ebike race starts at the finish line and goes to the start line

 

[R120]

They had an bike class for the last few years

 

[Kangr]

I’ve seen ebike classes at lots of enduros ,and some surprisingly good riders too , I think I was expecting old farts like me , no fit young riders that could also do well on normal bikes .
Most of it though on stuff like that above is about downhill speed so Ebikes can’t keep up due to speed restriction , the extreme level often depends on weather . The recent FOD mini enduro would have been a nice fairly easy ride , that was turned into a really difficult /impossible ride for some due to lots of rain .

Being above the speed restriction limiter doesn't mean you cant keep up (though certain motors do have a disadvantage here). I would imagine the extra weight and stability of a ebike to be an advantage here.

 

[steve_sordy]

That looked tough, but at least the guy was at the front!

Here is the first 15 mins from someone who was an ordinary guy ie near the back!

 

[R120]

Ben Deakin has a good vid from the event where he and others take some serious stacks being caught up in the mid pack

 

[bissona]

Yup looks like they do an ebike entry now

Oh god.... things I didn't need to know!

Only 39 eMTB entries last year, could get a top 50

 

[Kernow]

Being above the speed restriction limiter doesn't mean you cant keep up (though certain motors do have a disadvantage here). I would imagine the extra weight and stability of a ebike to be an advantage here.

There’s no way your going to pedal an ebike on the fast pedaly sections as fast as normal bikes , you can see some of the guys in that vid pedalling like Duracell bunnies . Although in the ebike catagory it would still be about the fittest rider with the least drag after cut off so brose or shimano would be the choice . I agree the wieght does make for a more stable ride in places , but some really slippery off camber stuff in the woods gets harder to controll due to heavier bike .
As for derestricted bikes , I’ve not seen any scrutineering of ebikes at enduros Or anything to say only one battery can be used , riders would be free to return to thier car and change batteries , the FOD even had charging points in the start field .
the climbing sections that I’ve seen that are solely for ebikes are too steep or technical to get near the limiter , but there are a few downhill pedaly sections where an derestricted bike would gain advantage . I don’t really think any ebikers are taking it that seriously at present , they are just out for a fun day

 

[bissona]

The Megavalanche results from the last 2 years clearly show a 10-15% deficit for eBikes, and it's not quality of rider as there's some works riders in there. You can see it in some of the youtube vids, the ebike guys high-fiving spectators on the flat / uphill sections as there's little point in trying to drag them uphill faster than the limiter allows.

And they do seem to have scrutineering on the Thursday for ebikes, details here (but in French...).

As much fun as the downhills stuff looks, I think I'd be more interested in some XC action. Now scouring the web for options!

 

[Dax]

Mega is epic, but you need to be a good rider just to make it through qualifying, let alone finish the race. Ever feel tired after a decent? Now imagine that for 2600m!

 

[Kangr]

There’s no way your going to pedal an ebike on the fast pedaly sections as fast as normal bikes , you can see some of the guys in that vid pedalling like Duracell bunnies . Although in the ebike catagory it would still be about the fittest rider with the least drag after cut off so brose or shimano would be the choice . I agree the wieght does make for a more stable ride in places , but some really slippery off camber stuff in the woods gets harder to controll due to heavier bike .
As for derestricted bikes , I’ve not seen any scrutineering of ebikes at enduros Or anything to say only one battery can be used , riders would be free to return to thier car and change batteries , the FOD even had charging points in the start field .
the climbing sections that I’ve seen that are solely for ebikes are too steep or technical to get near the limiter , but there are a few downhill pedaly sections where an derestricted bike would gain advantage . I don’t really think any ebikers are taking it that seriously at present , they are just out for a fun day

You are correct but im thinking about the Downhill sections where half the time your not pedaling and when you do, is the limiter cutting out power going to be much of a issue as your heading down and you have the full weight of the bike to help you carry momentum. On a flatish or shallower climb a fit enduro rider can out pace a ebike for a short time, I know I have riden with some. but for anything longer you will gain back the advantage..... maybe we need to send Rob out with some of my enduro racing friends (high level riders) to test hmmm. what do you think.

 

[Kernow]

You are correct but im thinking about the Downhill sections where half the time your not pedaling and when you do, is the limiter cutting out power going to be much of a issue as your heading down and you have the full weight of the bike to help you carry momentum. On a flatish or shallower climb a fit enduro rider can out pace a ebike for a short time, I know I have riden with some. but for anything longer you will gain back the advantage..... maybe we need to send Rob out with some of my enduro racing friends (high level riders) to test hmmm. what do you think.

Youve got a point. I’ve never really seen a fast fit rider pedal an ebike like they are in that vid , heavier bike fatter tyres etc ,
I swapped over bikes with a mate the other day he’s very fast and can easily beat me on my ebike on climbs and sprints , we both agreed that my ebike with motor off wasn’t much harder to pedal than his heavy enduro rig, put a rider like that on an ebike and he’s probably going to be faster overall especially on longer distances

 

[Kangr]

@Rob Hancill are you interested in doing some tests with very fast enduro riders. I might be able to fix it up for you if you are.

 

[Gary]

maybe we need to send Rob out with some of my enduro racing friends (high level riders) to test hmmm. what do you think

No disrespect to Rob but that test would be as pointless as those clickbait staged versus "tests" EMBN do between Neil/Steve/Chris or Steve and a random.

A test between THREE fairly equal high level Enduro racers. one riding his regular Enduro bike. One riding a 15mph restricted Ebike and ONE riding a de-restricted Ebike would be slightly more interesting but TBH the results will depend mostly on the technicallity, distance and height profile of each stage as it will the bikes used. P.lenty enduro trails round here would be no faster (but also no slower) on a de-restricted Emtb. while ALL stages with an uphill or extended flat pedal would be faster on an un-restricted Emtb. Whereas conditions would need to be soft/claggy mud to gain much of an advantage on an Emtb restricted to 15mph.
An alpine Avalanche enduro is absolutely nothing like a UK gravity Enduro. Results there would be very different.

IMHO there's absolutely no reason to enforce a motor assistance speed rule on a closed course off-road event. (Power. yes. Speed. no.) I don't really see the point in an Ebike race at all though. not without major changes. Without equalisation of power/torque assistance levels. and that's never going to happen. it's just not a level playing field.

 

[Kernow]

Spot on there. I’ve also felt the ebike catagory has been a bit pointless at the events I’ve seen one . But would be good to see a comparison of similar riders on a selection of bikes .
There has been a few comparing downhill times with same rider and the ebike hasn’t been far behind .
For me ebike is for fun and keeping up with the young riders so I can still have some good rides with them

 

[steve_sordy]

Why not have different formulae, like the Grand Prix motor racing?

 

[Kernow]

Why not have different formulae, like the Grand Prix motor racing?

Getting events up and running seems to be difficult . Finding enough riders to make it worth while etc . A number of events have gone bust recently , including the Ukge series with riders losing the money they had paid for the final round so getting an even smaller niche of ebikers to take part is probably not something anyone will bother organising , with less than half a dozen in ebike categories at most events , there clearly isn’t the numbers to support different categories , let alone an ebike specific series .

 

[Gary]

[

Why not have different formulae, like the Grand Prix motor racing?

What?

You mean each competitor shows their wage slip. highest paid wins the series?

 

[Marke]

I would be interested in a racing a 250w modified class (i.e. de-restricted). Maybe a series of 20- 30 min sprints would work. All the bikes are 250w nominal power and all are capable 20 - 30 mins at full power.

 

[steve_sordy]

............... there clearly isn’t the numbers to support different categories , let alone an ebike specific series .

There isn't now.

 

[Kangr]

The race scene does seem to be in a strange state at them moment with some series shutting down and other selling out within a few mins of bookings being available. I don't know enough about the closed down series to give a proper comment. all I can think of is that maybe what people are wanting from races is changing.

 

[Gary]

A lot of the failures I've seen do make some sense @Kangr .Taking UKGE as an example. Steve Parr has managed to fail (under it's various re-names) what? 3 times? in his aim to pull off a National Enduro series. While other more local series flourish. The problem there is Steve Parr. Nothing against the guy at all BTW. His commitment is inspirational. Unfortunately he just aims too high/granadiose/elite and misses the mark every time and doesn't seem to see his real competitor base. Most general enduro eventists aren't top level competitors and aren't willing to travel the length of the country chasing a series position. Especially if you up the prices and increase the amount of rules required to race. To create a successful series you need a thriving scene of local riders. Look at events like Ard rock for pretty much the opposite business model. One venue in one fairly central location with easy tracks anyone who owns a trail bike can ride with a festival vibe and family atmosphere and funnily enough it's massively popular.
There's quite a bit more to it than the above but I'm sure you get my point.

 

[Kernow]

A lot of the failures I've seen do make some sense @Kangr .Taking UKGE as an example. Steve Parr has managed to fail (under it's various re-names) what? 3 times? in his aim to pull off a National Enduro series. While other more local series flourish. The problem there is Steve Parr. Nothing against the guy at all BTW. His commitment is inspirational. Unfortunately he just aims too high/granadiose/elite and misses the mark every time and doesn't seem to see his real competitor base. Most general enduro eventists aren't top level competitors and aren't willing to travel the length of the country chasing a series position. Especially if you up the prices and increase the amount of rules required to race. To create a successful series you need a thriving scene of local riders. Look at events like Ard rock for pretty much the opposite business model. One venue in one fairly central location with easy tracks anyone who owns a trail bike can ride with a festival vibe and family atmosphere and funnily enough it's massively popular.
There's quite a bit more to it than the above but I'm sure you get my point.

Iam not impressed with what seems to me parr’s blatant rip off of the riders who committed and pre paid For the whole series , and he has a track record of this it seems .his inspiration did indeed seem inspirational , but I wonder how much inspiration his pocket had when he cancelled the final round without refunding riders ?
Everyone’s been very nice and poor steve etc , but hundreds of riders went to great lengths and commitment to travel across the country and ride all the events losing £75 or more for an event they pre paid for leaves a bad taste for the sport in general especially when it’s considered the uks main event series . I think he’s finished now after the last let down , blamed on lack of entries ? And commitment ? Etc , the events were chocca block full with most of the best riders in the country and the atmosphere and racing was some of best I’ve seen . It wasn’t really as grandiose or elite than I saw at the welsh series , camping was shite , the main arena too small and crowded , much the same team marshalling , time keeping , etc so I see no reason for the failure other than dishonesty .

Ard rock is a great event , but the entry system meant that many riders didn’t get an entry so it has become a fun event where you probably won’t see last years top riders competing again . Just hope it doesn’t end up like the board masters surf festival here in Cornwall which now has nothing to do with surfing for most of the piss heads and druggies .

 

[Gary]

Yeah. Like I said. There's a lot more to it than I posted above. Any rider left out of pocket because of Steve has my sympathy and is rightly entitled to complain about the guy. That's not me though. I'd rather have a weekend out in Cornwall with non-surfing pissheads and druggies than enter an Enduro