Someone save Kindernay!

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The Norwegian company Kindernay was founded in 2010. It takes guts to start a company manufacturing bike parts in Norway, a country not known for cheap labor. But as the years went by, Kindernay made progress and the project seemed more and more realistic to me.

The Kindernay XIV and VII​

After nine years, I got to ride the Kindernay XIV, a 14-speed internal gear hub (IGH). A hub manufactured in Norway. I’ve got little technical insight into how an IGH is designed. Still, as far as I could tell, this was a solid design and it looked well crafted.

Kindernay VII
Kindernay XIV

Late 2021, Kindernay launched the VII. I enjoyed riding this new 7-speed IGH, it was a smaller and lighter hub compared to the XIV. Also, Kindernay had made progress with the peripherals. Their new “twosie” shifter, a precise feeling shifter with both levers combined into one unit, was a nice step up.

Plans for the future​

What was next from Kindernay? They wanted electronic shifting. So far, they’ve had hydraulic shifters. I tried keeping in touch with Kindernay so I wouldn’t miss any upcoming news.

But they were becoming less responsive. I noticed their hubs were out of stock on the website. Weeks went by, and there was still no stock. Also, my contact at Kindernay was out on sick leave. Rumors popped up in various online comment sections. Some said Kindernay was going bankrupt.

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Kindernay is down ...​

Kindernay denied these rumors (which is understandable as they were still operating). My impression was they were working on securing financing for a big factory, and they would soon be up again. It seems they tried to secure funding for a 150 MNok factory (~€13M) and raise funds after having lost 21 MNok in 2022. For whatever reason, they didn’t succeed, and the news dropped today. Kindernay is bankrupt.

Why would Kindernay need a € 13.000.000 factory? Their product seemed great, and I believe several bike manufacturers considered it for their bikes. If Kindernay was scaling up to meet demand, I guess they would be able to raise the money. If the demand wasn’t there, the timing to go bigger probably wasn’t great. But what do I know.

The Kindernay twosie shifter was a nice unit and a nice upgrade over the original onsies


... but are they out?​

I think there is still hope for Kindernay. In a Norwegian article published on shifter.no, the trustee of the Kindernay assets says there’s been some interest in buying the company.

When previously visiting Kindernay, I’ve spoken to engineers and I believe there is world class technical knowledge behind the products. I hope someone sees the value of this expertise and the product. Someone save Kindernay!
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About author
knut7
Knut Nes
Started mountainbiking in the 90s. Moved to emtbs in 2014 and have been reviewing them since 2016. Contact me here https://emtb.no/contact/

Comments

steve_sordy
Somone may buy the company and all of its intellectual capital.
Then move it to Thailand!
Or India.
Anywhere with the right blend of low labour and land costs but with an educated workforce.
But hopefully not China!
 
S
It's a sad news.
I have both hub : the Kindernay 7 on a Brompton folding bike a the Kindernay 14 which is waiting for to be installed on other bike.
I hope someone save the company (the concept of the hub is very good even if the products can be improve). In fact I realised that something was wrong in begining of 2023 (lack of communication, Kindernay 14 out of stock.....).
Knut Tore Losjne is a great engineer with several patents and Christian Antal did what he can to developpe its company, but without succed.
I wish the best for the futur.
 
TCFlowClyde
The K-VII is a realistic breakthrough to finally rid humanity of the Achilles Heal of the mtb especially for full sus rigs. It stands out as a lightweight IGH (reduce unsprung mass). Additionally, it features a 7 speed drivetrain with a wide enough range for most E-mtbs. Bonus, has the advantage of a more robust chain and fewer gears to handle higher torque demands of an E-mtb.

I hope they get restructured or purchased by a company that looks to release this cutting edge tech in its current form (maybe add an e-shifter upgrade 😉) to the general public like Rohloff and not OEM like 3x3.🙏
 
TCFlowClyde
TCFlowClyde said:
The K-VII is a realistic breakthrough to finally rid humanity of the Achilles Heal of the mtb especially for full sus rigs. It stands out as a lightweight IGH (reduce unsprung mass). Additionally, it features a 7 speed drivetrain with a wide enough range for most E-mtbs. Bonus, has the advantage of a more robust chain and fewer gears to handle higher torque demands of an E-mtb.

I hope they get restructured or purchased by a company that looks to release this cutting edge tech in its current form (maybe add an e-shifter upgrade 😉) to the general public like Rohloff and not OEM like 3x3.🙏
Click to expand...
Oops! Left out: The Achilles Heal of mtbing = the fragile rear mech.
 
RickBullotta
TCFlowClyde said:
Oops! Left out: The Achilles Heal of mtbing = the fragile rear mech.
Click to expand...
That used to be the case, but the last time I had a rear derailleur fail on a ride was well over 3 years ago, on a Shimano Di2. Since I switched to SRAM, I haven't had a single failure. I ride 3500+ miles a year and ride a lot of tech gnar, including some or the most technical rocky terrain.
 
TCFlowClyde
RickBullotta said:
That used to be the case, but the last time I had a rear derailleur fail on a ride was well over 3 years ago, on a Shimano Di2. Since I switched to SRAM, I haven't had a single failure. I ride 3500+ miles a year and ride a lot of tech gnar, including some or the most technical rocky terrain.
Click to expand...
Agreed somewhat living in the techy, rocky southwest, I've had AXS GX for 2.5 yrs, it's an improvement over traditional for sure in robustness on the impact clutch 💯. The wireless is sweet. But the hanger can bend of course and I'm still cautious on always clearing my right flank.

Consequently, given K-VII's current unavailability, I plan on upgrading to the T-type Gx, hoping that it's 2x better, especially shifting under load. Totally makes sense to have the UDH to direct mount it under chainstay for better alignment, (as long as the stay can handle the hits, which seems like it so far.)

But give the E-mtb community the chance for no derailleur at the cheaper cost and for a similar weight (= unsprung mass) and make it wireless shifting, shifting while stopped or under load,
and has much lower maintenance overall, the lightweight e-IGH is one viable future emtb solution. The other is the geared drive unit. I would prefer to have them separate and independent.

Really , AXS/T-type should have been around 20 yrs ago. While the IGH is 1800s technology, it's proven but HEAVY. I have a 3-spd Shimano Nexus on my cruiser for the past 10 yrs.... bombproof. Since space aged, lighter material science, the K-VII would 10x more useful. The rear mech will no longer be a problem 'cause it's 86'd...and since chainline is constant, you can beat the hell out of a chain tensioner, which is tiny in comparison to the GX. (I was a full-sus, single speeder for a few years that needed a tensioner for chaingrow.)

Kindernay just needs to be re-organized by the right company. I'd ask Fox, are you ready to enter into the market with a truly innovative drivetrain kike the KVII? Buy Kindernay's patent and improve it....but keep it the similar cost please.😁 👊
 
RickBullotta
TCFlowClyde said:
Agreed somewhat living in the techy, rocky southwest, I've had AXS GX for 2.5 yrs, it's an improvement over traditional for sure in robustness on the impact clutch 💯. The wireless is sweet. But the hanger can bend of course and I'm still cautious on always clearing my right flank.

Consequently, given K-VII's current unavailability, I plan on upgrading to the T-type Gx, hoping that it's 2x better, especially shifting under load. Totally makes sense to have the UDH to direct mount it under chainstay for better alignment, (as long as the stay can handle the hits, which seems like it so far.)

But give the E-mtb community the chance for no derailleur at the cheaper cost and for a similar weight (= unsprung mass) and make it wireless shifting, shifting while stopped or under load,
and has much lower maintenance overall, the lightweight e-IGH is one viable future emtb solution. The other is the geared drive unit. I would prefer to have them separate and independent.

Really , AXS/T-type should have been around 20 yrs ago. While the IGH is 1800s technology, it's proven but HEAVY. I have a 3-spd Shimano Nexus on my cruiser for the past 10 yrs.... bombproof. Since space aged, lighter material science, the K-VII would 10x more useful. The rear mech will no longer be a problem 'cause it's 86'd...and since chainline is constant, you can beat the hell out of a chain tensioner, which is tiny in comparison to the GX. (I was a full-sus, single speeder for a few years that needed a tensioner for chaingrow.)

Kindernay just needs to be re-organized by the right company. I'd ask Fox, are you ready to enter into the market with a truly innovative drivetrain kike the KVII? Buy Kindernay's patent and improve it....but keep it the similar cost please.😁 👊
Click to expand...

I upgraded my XX1 AXS to XX Transmission recently. I wish I could tell you it's 2X better. I'd go with 10-20%.
 
iscander13
I think for emtb it is high time to make a gearbox, combined with the engine, to remove this misunderstanding in the form of shifting gears on the rear axle. There is enough space in the front triangle :)
 
TCFlowClyde
iscander13 said:
I think for emtb it is high time to make a gearbox, combined with the engine, to remove this misunderstanding in the form of shifting gears on the rear axle. There is enough space in the front triangle :)
Click to expand...
There's a marketplace for both. Of course, Pinion and a few others others have the gearedbox motor. Advantages are lower CG and less unsprung mass on the rear triangle. But also, consider not every motor manufacturer will immediately do one, if at all. It will cost more overall too. On the positive, the lower CG in the cockpit makes the front pop a bit more for hops which I like.

The lightweight e-IGH will bridge the gap and has already gone to the market successfully...well we'll see if the K-VII lives on.🤞Plus, it's(was) $1300 for the K-VII, slightly cheaper than the AXS/T-Type and roughly the same weight. Again, no rear mech the main weakness.

So, It's not either/or, both concepts are viable in different ways in order to ditch the conventional drivetrain that has always been a shifting liability due to techy and rougher terrain and more than just a gravel road. 👊
 
RickBullotta
iscander13 said:
I think for emtb it is high time to make a gearbox, combined with the engine, to remove this misunderstanding in the form of shifting gears on the rear axle. There is enough space in the front triangle :)
Click to expand...

That would be a very front heavy bike.
 
Streddaz
RickBullotta said:
That would be a very front heavy bike.
Click to expand...
Not really, it mounts the weight in the middle and down low, the best place you can add weight to a bike. The Pinion MGU only adds 1kg to most of the other brands mid drive motor and removes the unsprung mass of the derailleur and cassette.
 
RickBullotta
Streddaz said:
Not really, it mounts the weight in the middle and down low, the best place you can add weight to a bike. The Pinion MGU only adds 1kg to most of the other brands mid drive motor and removes the unsprung mass of the derailleur and cassette.
Click to expand...

It also removes almost 2kg from the rear of the bike. That's a significant weight shift.
 
Streddaz
RickBullotta said:
It also removes almost 2kg from the rear of the bike. That's a significant weight shift.
Click to expand...
But it puts that weight in the centre of the bike, down low, the ideal place. They sometimes add weight to DH bikes for certain conditions, where do they add that weight? around the bottom bracket. That weight was once unsprung weight, now it works with the suspension system, not against it. It's not like all that weight is now on the front wheel, it is equally divided between front and rear. A bike that has a 900wh battery has a larger increase in front biased weight distribution than adding an extra kg to the bottom bracket area.
 
P
I would pitch this to Industry Nine. I think they have the resources to take over where kindernay left off- given if they would inherit all of the design and CAD files from Kindernay
 
S
A message read on a German forum: Kindernay seems to have been bought by one of the former investors to bring it out of bankruptcy. At the moment, no one knows what the plans are. Production could theoretically restart, but the former engineers are no longer present and it will be difficult to restart production without the know-how. Case to follow.
 
Bearman
I think Kindernay looked realy great, but belive they missed the market not making the hub with electronic shifting. After finaly cleaning up the cocpit, getting rid of gear wires thanks to SRAM AXS, I personaly would not go back to having the two hydralic lines cluttering it up again.
 
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