Rise with Edge 530; power data?

[D_Ch]

Hi, i'm searching and searching, but can't find any specific info about this: when pairing a Rise with a Garmin 530, either as a sensor, with the steps app or the Orbea toolbox, can you actually get instant power data (rider's power)? Like with a power meter?
I'm using the 530 on my acoustic with a spider power meter and i want to do the same on my future emtb, without redundantly install another power meter on it...
Thanks for the help!

 

[mark.ai]

With a Shimano motor there is no way to get any power information from it unfortunately.

You could use the recent Garmin SPD power pedals or something similar to that.

 

[D_Ch]

Thanks for the info!
Wow, that's a bummer. I've been reading a lot of bad press about the Bosch system not being able to connect to Gramin or other devices, yet at least it shows your exerted power on the Kiox...
I feared the solution would be to add another power meter (in order to actually work, an ebike has to meter your input somehow - if you have torque and cadence, ther's your power); i can't force myself to do that. Also, pedals are not a great solution for mtb; too exposed - i got a spider power meter in my acoustic.
I suppose this will make my life easier; no Rise for me

 

[Gary]

Why do you want a power meter on an emtb?

 

[D_Ch]

I've written it elsewhere, but I'll try to explain it here: where i live it is steep grades everywhere, so with the acoustic i can only do intense outings or outside workouts (with a power meter). On an emtb with power readings (to the Garmin would be ideal, since i load the outside workouts there) i could also do the endurance and recovery rides outside instead of the indoor trainer. These rides can mostly be done by HR too, but the idea is to sell the acoustic and to also do the shorter intervals on the emtb (with low assist) a power reading is needed.
Of course i do have friends with emtb that do not bother and just ride around, but it was too hard for myself to drop 30 pounds and i feel so much better now as to go back to my lazier self. YMMV.

 

[Gary]

Ah. Ok. Yes. a power meter metric included in the steps system would be a "nice" option to have. but certainly not essential. As you don't *need* a power meter to do intervals. and you certainly don't *need" one to control your weight.
Unless you are a highly trained competitive athlete (or training to become one) a power meter is more of a luxury than an essential tool
for recovery rides (and Ebike assisted intervals) you could just use HR. and for calorie control the garmin with HR strap is fairly accutate.
If you're keeping your normal bike you can still use that to "test" your fitness using power data
I think you might be surprised at how much less power you output even in eco compared to a normal bike.
IMO Ebikes are pretty terrible for training to improve sprinting or increasing max power. so if either of those are in your goals don't sell your normal bike.

 

[D_Ch]

I found that following a structured plan helps me in several ways:
- Actually makes me fitter: i have been riding bikes since i was a kid, and never been fitter. It's probably due to overdoing it and burning out before, easy to do and not good.
- Being fitter, i can train more and harder and burn a lot more calories in the process.
- To have more structure is an incentive to get off my ass even when i could find an excuse not to.
- To measure my progress gives me a more objective evaluation of how things are improving or not.
Even getting older, i have improved my FTP and lost a lot of weight in the last 4+ years this way; both are objective measures of improvement, corroborated by the all important subjective feeling of suffering less the pains of aging.
I don't race, nor i want to improve my sprinting or max power. Yet to improve my form, threshold, over unders and VO2max workouts have been key, and you can only do them properly with power readings.
Given the alternative, I'll do them outside on a bike instead of the trainer; since installing a power meter on the acoustic, I've been having a blast!
As for the ebikes assisting too much even in eco, i borrowed a friend's Wild and there's plenty of terrain around here where you can kill yourself climbing on it. Let's say you have 20km of off-road grade @ 10+% avg; is the 10 cog still too easy in eco to climb that with some decent effort? Not for me. On the acoustic i have to overuse the 50 and often have a slower cadence than I'd like a lot of times.
In the end, i will get a Bosch equipped emtb, keep the acoustic and see if i can replace it altogether or not. In case not, I'll be back here asking tips on how to justify both with the family or on how to hide one of the two

 

[Gary]

Let's say you have 20km of off-road grade @ 10+% avg; is the 10 cog still too easy in eco to climb that with some decent effort?

a 10T sprocket has no place on an emtb. You'll discover that for yourself soon enough

I do admire your optimism that you think you'll continue to put out the same effort once you have a motor helping.

 

[D_Ch]

I do admire your optimism that you think you'll continue to put out the same effort once you have a motor helping.

I could sit on the couch the days i have workouts planned; i could go slower with the acoustic the days i go out for a threshold or harder workout; i could eat more pizza and so on...
It's not optimism, it's that i learned the hard way what i need to do in order not to be too miserable. And i actually do enjoy it, go figure!
What strikes me is that i got a lot of flack on the training forum for asking about integrating an ebike in the workouts for my specific case; here i get questioned the other way around.
If there is resistance towards ebikes from the hardcore sufferers, it's not that the promoters of it are doing a much better job.

 

[aarfeldt]

RS Toolbox will on the Garmin 530 tell you, how much % assistance is provided.
And since your own input is directly connected to this...it migth be usefull to you...??..

 

[mak]

I do admire your optimism that you think you'll continue to put out the same effort once you have a motor helping.

I only use my garmin watch to have a glance at calorie's burned on a ride but I'm not sure how accurate it is, I guess it just calculates from heart rate and then calculates miles and speed? I have it set to EMTB but not sure that makes a difference.
I have a 12 mile route round the local park.
I have ridden this route in normal eco and have completed it from my house back with the bike off, both times according to my watch the calories burnt are very similar just slightly slower round trip.
I've had higher heart rates in a more powerful mode going faster up hill than slogging it out with the bike in eco or off

 

[Gary]

it just calculates calories burned from HR and exercise duration. Speed/distance/elevation etc. are irrelevant to your calorie burn.
to calculate calories accurately you do need to have your correct HR zones, resting HR and max HR set in your garmin units user settings. I have a low resting HR so prefer to use Percent of Heart Rate Reserve to calculate my zones rather than percentage of max alone.
I don't use Garmin Express at all but calories burned when exported to STRAVA or MyFitness Pal are generally fairly accurate for me whether riding a normal bike or an Emtb and in the 4 years I've had Ebikes I've always had a higher HR on the flat and climbing while riding a normal bike so obviously burned more calories too. Hence my comment regarding optimism of effort output when assisted.
Could well be my frame of mind a play too though. that and the fact an Ebike has a narrower range of operational cadence to a normal bike and a faster average speed for the effort required.