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YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

160MM Gravity focussed EMTB from the direct to consumer brand

Last updated:
Price
£4199 (Base), £4999 (Pro), £5999 (Pro Race)
Wheels
29" Front, 27.5" Rear
Travel
160mm Fork, 165mm Shock
Motor
Shimano E8000
Weight
21.9KG (Pro Race)
Battery
540Wh YT Custom

Firstly, let me clear this up. The YT Decoy goes straight into the top few ebikes that you can buy right now. Looks? Stunning. Performance? Outstanding. But what makes this bike stand out from the huge amount of ebikes that have recently been released? Read on to find out exactly why I love this bike.

The all new YT Decoy. One of the most ambitious projects that the YT Industries team have released to date. I was invited to the launch of the bike in the south of France and spent a few days learning about the bike and riding it in the beautiful French mountains. So lets take a deeper look into the bike, the technology and design then take a look at how the bike performs.

YT Decoy Development

YT could have released an electric mountain bike a year ago. Easy. Just buy a motor and battery package from Shimano. Make some modifications to an existing frame (Capra / Jeffsy), bolt on the motor, pop the battery on the front triangle and ship it to the consumer. Job done, YT have an ebike.

But that’s not how YT work. As we were presented the new bike via a slideshow presentation before the unveiling, it was clear that YT wanted to get this bike as, well, “YT” as possible. Lets start with the vision. The YT Decoy has been designed to look like a YT. It’s been designed so it doesn’t stick out, with gravity at its core and an integrated design. The YT Decoy represents what YT believe an EMTB should be.

Check the video for a closer look, test ride and chat with Stefan Willared from YT Industries

It’s taken almost 3 years to develop. A large chunk of that development time has been the custom battery that YT have commissioned, that is integrated into the downtube and secured into the frame with 2 bolts. Designing your own battery is complex and costly. YT have partnered with Simplo who manufacture the batteries to YT’s specification. Once the battery design and manufacturing process is finalised it need to be certified before it can be actually be mass produced and sold.

The YT Decoy uses 540Wh battery loaded with thirty of the latest generation 21700 cells (same as Tesla in fact). YT are proud that their finalised product passed the rigorous testing procedures with ease, in fact, there was not a single failure, or anything near a failure, so much so that the testers were pretty amazed how well that YT had done, even more so considering that it’s the companies’ first ebike.

Phototography: Jack Tennyson & Johan Hjord

YT Decoy
540Wh battery, 21700 cells and neatly integrated into the underside of the down tube. Charging port at the top. Yep, well sealed (I checked!)

The battery has hard plastic on the underside with the DECOY branding etched into it. At the top, straight in the line of fire for mud and water (especially for UK riders!) is the charging port. I was quite keen to understand how this would cope with the worst weather conditions.

We’ve made 4 versions of the battery cover and improved it every time. We’ve tested it thoroughly, in all conditions, and blasted a pressure washer at it on maximum. It survived everything.

YT Industries engineering

Whilst we’re on the subject of the battery I wanted to talk a bit about the battery life. It’s still a big talking point and whilst mileage varies hugely, I was seriously impressed with the performance. I managed 36 KM on day two of riding (varied terrain, some ascents and shuttles back to the top) and I had used only 2 out of 5 bars. Now, I know this is not hugely accurate; there are so many variables, but I’ve ridden enough of the Shimano equipped bikes to know that this is some impressive range. Even more so as I was using Boost a lot.

I asked Stefan Willared, the CTO for YT, about the battery and mentioned the impressive range. He mentioned that they are using 21700 cells in the battery and the fact that the entire battery is only as good as the worst cell in the complete pack. The 21700 are well regarded as great performers.

YT Decoy Frame, geometry and design details

Frame
Full Carbon (Pro / Race)
Head Andle
65 degrees
Chainstay
442mm
BASE Model
£4199, Carbon Front, Alu Rear, Rockshox Suspension
PRO Model
£4999, Full Carbon, Fox 36 and DPX2 Shock
PRO RACE Model
£5999, Full Carbon, e-thirteen Carbon Wheelset, Shimano Di2, Fox Factory

Five size options. Yep, right up to XXL with a reach of 495mm. The bike is position somewhere between the Capra and Jeffsy in terms of geometry and travel, with a 65 degree headtube angle, a 76 degree seat angle and short (by ebike standards) chainstay at 442mm. Fork is 160mm and rear travel is 165mm. You could also run with a 170mm on the front.

YT Decoy
Chainstay protection to reduce noise
YT Decoy
Neatly integrated cable routing
YT Decoy geometry
YT Decoy Geometry Chart

YT Decoy is rocking moto-style mixed wheels, with a 29er up front with a 2.5″ Maxxis Minion DHF and a 27.5″ at the rear with a DHR2 at 2.8″. I suspect this config helps keep the chainstay shorter instead of full on 29er, and some benefits with the chunkier rubber on the rear for climbing the steep stuff.

The YT Decoy has a progressive tune for its travel, via a virtual 4 bar rear end, designed to give an off-the-top sensitive initial stroke, ample mid stroke support and a more progressive end stroke. Their team had a goal of minimising pedal kickback to reduce any unwanted forces against the motion of the motor whilst riding.

Look closer and you’ll see some very cool details. Frame protection on the chainstay to stop unwanted chain slap on both the chain stay and underside of the seat stay. Single sided, sealed bearings for the swing arm. Neatly integrated cable routing into the frame, so the end customer doesn’t have to mess around later on with routing (it’ll thread straight through without any messing).

It’s evident that YT are thinking about the end consumer, not just for aesthetics but also to minimise the amount of service and warranty issues later down the line.

YT DECOY, THE LITTLE DETAILS

It’s the little things that have been taken into consideration to keep the customer experience as good as possible. Let’s face it, it’s a direct to consumer bike brand, it’s important to get this stuff right.

It’s not just the functional stuff either. The look is exquisitely refined, every detail has been thought about. The Shimano E8000 motor has been paired with some of the more discreet Shimano E7000 components. Instead of using the bigger, more colourful E8000 display, YT chose to place the ‘lower’ model on the bars. Not because of cost. Because it is slightly smaller and is less distracting that the colour display.

The speed controller is the super low profile E7000 switch. It’s way nicer to use than the E8000 clickty-clackety under bar mode controller. And on the Pro Race model, equipped with Di2 shifting, there’s even the E7000 controller used there to shift. This also helps provide one of the cleanest EMTB bars that you’ll ever see. The thin controller wires are still there, just hidden neatly with rubber straps that make it super low profile and clean.

Back to the frame. The lines and aesthetics have a pleasing look. Sharp, bold but not too in your face. More refined and classy than brash. The paint is simple but well done and compliments the carbon lines. Geometry is bang up to date and with 5 sizes with reach up to 495mm in XXL you wont struggle to find a great fit. There’s a flip chip too. The default ‘Super low’ position results in the 65 degree head angle. Change it up to ‘Low’ and you’ll add half a degree to both the head angle (65.5 degree) and the seat angle (76.5 degree). Neat.

YT Decoy Components

Top spec Pro Race is oozing with quality kit. 160mm Fox Factory E-Bike 36 forks, carbon wheels, Code RSC brakes, Shimano Di2 shifting, Fox Transfer dropper, e-Thirteen TRS Plus cassette, 165mm crank arms to name a few of the standouts. The whole range offers excellent value though. The standout perhaps being the full carbon Pro model, at £4999, provides outstanding bang for buck. Click the cards below to see full listing.

If you’re wondering why YT chose a Shimano motor over, perhaps a German brand, such as Brose, Bosch or even Fazua… me too. Until I though a bit more about their model. Being a Direct to Consumer brand means that in the event that something goes wrong with the motor it’s critical that the customer can get it fixed. Quick.

I don’t think that Brose offer any way, other than via a dealer, to get support. So that rules that one out. I doubt any dealer would be willing to support YT in house. Bosch? Well, it’s a bit long in the tooth and due a refresh. The Fazua probably doesnt offer enough torque and ultimate power for the intented gravity use of the Decoy.

YT Decoy Shimano Motor
E8000 motor is neatly integrated

So Shimano kind of makes sense. There’s a bunch of Shimano service centres that can help. Not quite as easy as turning up to a dealer to get it sorted there and then, but the next best solution. In the event that the battery needs service, this will be dealt with directly by YT.

The Shimano E8000 is a good motor but its not as refined as the Brose Mag S. Its a bit louder, especially in Boost mode. It also feels a bit too digital in Boost and has a bit too much of an on/off feeling, both at the initial pedal stroke and near the 15.5mph / 25kph limit.

With 70Nm of claimed torque (it actually feels more than that to me) it’s got enough punch to help you up some pretty steep stuff. Or just generally hooning it about if thats what you like.

But as an overall package it works well. I do hope Shimano refine the power delivery a bit more though. That can be done later down the line via firmware updates, which by the way are over the air, so you’re not going to need to visit the dealer to update the bike like you do with the Brose motors and some others.

Riding the YT Decoy

I was riding the £5999 top spec Pro Race model. Firstly, I crashed it. A lot (Sorry YT!). But I bloody loved it. I think I annoyed the photographers a little bit as I couldn’t pull off some of the steezy moves that some of the other skilled journos were able to. I’m not the worlds best rider. Barely average in fact. When I ride the bikes I try to represent real world riders (that’s what I keep telling myself anyway!).

By the way, I didn’t crash because of the bike. The terrain was way more sketchy than I’m used to (I ride more trail centres and well manicured routes in the south of the UK). Our rides were using the bike at what it does best. Riding down a mountain and shuttling back to the top.

We had two full on days on the bike in the South of France and took on some epic mountain routes. Breathtaking scenery with some loose rocky descents, drops, slabs, rooty singletrack. In fact we covered a wide range of terrain to really test the bike.

YT Decoy on the trails
The bike provided a stable and confident platform for these epic descents with a low centre of gravity

The bike is extremely stable and balance with a low centre of gravity. Partnered with the 160mm Fox 36 fork and the 65 degree head angle I was able to absolutely blast it downhill. It likes to hit the chunky stuff and soak up the bigger hits, which it does with ease. It filled me with confidence and definitely helped me hit rock gardens and bigger drops at speeds that I wouldn’t have had the balls to hit on a trail oriented bike.

We started to hit some more of the loose fast descents with some very tight, often off camber switch backs. Once I’d sussed out the wide line, late apex, I was able to get the hang of cornering the bike quite well, despite its slacker angles and longer wheelbase. The short chainstay helped lift the front end over speed sapping rocks and roots; the bike is easy to lift and manoeuvre. The 29er on the front rolled very well with the Exo+ based Maxxis Minion DFH providing good levels of grip.

YT Decoy rock drop
When you miss the takeoff the frame and kinematics soak up the impacts. After this I had no issues hitting stuff blind knowing what I’ve got in the tank
YT Decoy Di2 E7000 shifter
Neat integration but not as ergonomic as underbar shifters

The Di2 shifting was interesting. I love how rapid the shifting is. Lightning quick and precise. I’m fully converted and if I had the choice (and funds) I’d go for electronic shifting in a heart beat. Something I couldn’t quite get used to was the position of the right hand shifter, the E7000 controller. Rather than being in the conventional under the bar position, its placed on the bar. It’s higher than you’re used to. And a bit more awkward to hit quickly. When we grip our bars our thumbs are wrapped under the bar.

It’s something that I did get used to and I’ve no doubt if this is your regular bike that you’d get it dialled quite quickly. But it still not as ergonomic. You can change the button configuration to switch around which button upshifts / downshifts and also program in multiple shift depending how long you press the button for which is super cool.

Grip from the 2.8″ DHR2 was incredible and offered a good feel whilst climbing. I prefer to climb whilst sat, standing when it gets a bit steeper to weight the front of the bike more. The bike climbed well, I used a bit of boost mode to help keep momentum up then dialed it back down to trail on looser stuff.

YT Decoy rock garden
The bike is at home on the rocks. Well composed with excellent suspension kinematics soaking up the hits

The bike seems very well built, aside from one point below. No annoying rattles, vibrations or irritations. Just totally solid. The e-Thirteen carbon wheels paired with the carbon frame make for a super stiff chassis. I did have an issue with the rear axle coming loose, I suspect that a rock strike / foot strike hit the lever to help it. One to watch out for though as it wasn’t just me on the ride that had this issue.

On the second day we hit less of the chunky stuff and more singletrack and narrow, rooty trails. I thought that the bike may feel a bit more cumbersome here but I was surprised. It handled quick, steering felt very sharp. I really like the 800mm wide Renthal bars and 40mm stem combo. I was able to move the bike around, through narrow sections fairly well.

In terms of overall handling the YT Decoy offers an impressive wide range of abilities. Whilst it is certainly more gravity focussed than trail, that doesn’t stop it feeling well placed when riding forest sections. It translates to a lot of fun. It can hit steep descents and soak up rock gardens and natural drops with ease. I rode it down long rocky sections, with stepped drops that continued to the bottom of the trail. The suspension recovered well and not once did I feel that the bike lost composure.

The riding position is extremely balanced. It’s not overly cumbersome to handle. I’d have no issue using this as a regular trail bike with the thought that I have enough bike to take to almost anywhere.

The bike offers incredible value for money. It looks stunning too with components that you’d probably pick if you were building your own bike from scratch. I had a fantastic time riding it in the French mountains, it’s a seriously capable bike.

DISCLOSURE: YT paid for travel, food and accommodation for the test. A guide was also provided (Greg  from www.1001sentiers.fr – an awesome local guide) so we could explore the best trails in the area. A Massive thank you to YT Industries team for the opportunity to test it! I wish you all the best for the bike launch.

4.5
OUTSTANDING
Conclusion
A seriously good electric mountain bike that rides as well as it looks. A fantastic complete package, from the performance that the bike provides to the outstanding value that you get with YT. The company have developed an impressive bike that, as a first ebike in the range, looks like its had years of refinement and is already a few models and years in. This bike is an excellent demonstration of when design, kinematics and technology meet and form an outstanding end product.
Good Stuff
Excellent Performance
Outstanding Value
Looks stunning
Kinematics and balance
Not So Good
Shimano Motor power delivery not as refined as Brose and a bit noisier
Di2 shifting location difficult to adapt quickly to (only an issue on Pro Race model)
  1. Excellent right up rob as always this is definitely a contender for my next ebike but who knows what this year will bring for the ebike revolution keeping an open mind

  2. I sold my YT Capra to help fund the purchase of my Focus Jam2. I Loved the Capra, but I could no longer ride it where it needed to be ridden. What it needed was a motor! And now its got one, brilliant! But by the time I’ve done with the Jam2 , thee may be something even better!

  3. nice bike looking to get my first e bike was leading towards a levo but the yt looks great when is the available to buy??
  4. Ok so i’ve been in touch with YT.
    When asking the level of suspension on the pro level, they came back and said it was elite with a grip2 damper. On questioning this (as photo shows grip not grip2) they reconfirmed:

    Michael Lifka (YT Industries)
    Apr 2, 17:39 CEST
    Hello Richard,

    I’m definitely sure the fork has Grip2.
    The photos may differ because sometimes we may not have all original components in stock at the time the photos are taken.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
    Michael Lifka

  5. Having not owned an eBike, how would you go about cleaning the crap that will inevitably get between the frame and the motor?
  6. It depends on the model of bike, and how the motor is mounted. On some bikes its not an issue, on others you would usually drop or partially drop the motor, on others you can use a brush/airhose to get in there.
  7. Can anyone speak to the differences between a brose levo motor and the shimano e8000. It looks like the shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?
  8. shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?

    Not at all. It’s barely noticeable (to me).

    What is noticable is the noise and the more aggressive torque curve, especially in Boost at the initial pedal stroke and at the cut out speed. I wouldn’t worry so much about this though as Shimano could sort this via firmware updates. The noise, well, you’re stuck with that.

  9. Not at all. It’s barely noticeable (to me).

    What is noticable is the noise and the more aggressive torque curve, especially in Boost at the initial pedal stroke and at the cut out speed. I wouldn’t worry so much about this though as Shimano could sort this via firmware updates. The noise, well, you’re stuck with that.

    Having ridden both I’d agree with that, I still think the Levo has the slight edge in peak power or torque, and the Shimano is a bit on and off in boost mode.

    In trail mode the shimano is excellent though, but it is quite a bit noisier, my mates Levo is virtually silent.

  10. OK thanks for the replies. I’ve got a 18 levo and would like something more enduroish to handle the chunky downhills in Colorado.
  11. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

  12. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

    What setting do you have trail set to? Mine is on medium and boost is set high but I don’r often use boost and actually I don’t use trail much at all maybe I should :)

  13. Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

    I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

    I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

    For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

  14. Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

    I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

    I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

    For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

    Out of interest what is the latest software update on the app I think mine says it’s version 3.3.3 if that makes sense I am nervous about updating it or should I just update it whenever it says a new one is available?

  15. I rarely use boost on the shimano, normally eco & then trail when I’m exhausted, it’s more natural feeling & a few of my (non ebike)mates have tried the bike in eco & were surprised by the lack of support, even in trail it didn’t match there perceived perceptions of an ebike, only in boost did it deliver the power they thought an ebike would so I totally agree with R120 (y)
  16. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

    I come from a moto background so I put my levo in turbo full time. Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

  17. Afraid ic ant answer that as haven’t really put any time in on boost mode on a Brose. I like the motor to be only giving me just enough assistance, I dont like riding when it feels artificial.
  18. The brose 1.3 motor is similar to the shimano in boost/turbo but maybe not quite so on and off.
  19. Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

    It’s definitely more on/off than Turbo on the Levo. The Brose is very smooth in delivery, even in Turbo. Shimano also has a more aggressive overrun. It’s not necessarily bad, its just different.

  20. If you ride mainly in boost, then the tunability of the Brose will be an advantage, as I believe aside from the power you assign to the mode, you can tune the delay in the motor kicking in – the Shimano has a slight delay before the motor kicks in, in all modes, but this is most noticeable in boost.
  21. The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

    If you wait it out the next year’s YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

  22. Can anyone speak to the differences between a brose levo motor and the shimano e8000. It looks like the shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?

    Shimano motor is noisy as. Friends on a normal bike said they didn’t want to ride with me as it was so noisy. The brose they didn’t notice. I can’t take the Shimano motor seriously. It’s so noisy it detracts from riding the bike and terrain. It’s one whiny bitch.

  23. Ok so i’ve been in touch with YT.
    When asking the level of suspension on the pro level, they came back and said it was elite with a grip2 damper. On questioning this (as photo shows grip not grip2) they reconfirmed:

    Michael Lifka (YT Industries)
    Apr 2, 17:39 CEST
    Hello Richard,

    I’m definitely sure the fork has Grip2.
    The photos may differ because sometimes we may not have all original components in stock at the time the photos are taken.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
    Michael Lifka

    I wrote YT USA last night. I got a very different answer.

    I then read your post so I called Fox for clarification. The rep said they don’t have an E specific Performance Elite, only a Performance model with a GRIP and a Factory with a GRIP2. I suggested they look at the product photos on YTs website showing an specific performance elite and the rep said it must be an OEM only and can’t tell me any specific about it without a product number.

  24. The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

    If you wait it out the next year’s YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

    Shimano doesn’t do anything fast.

  25. The fact the E8000 offers firmware updates and YT’s battery has an upgrade path is a really attractive proposition. You don’t need any more power unless you weight a ton.

    Seems like some people have different experiences with the E8000 depending on the tune and firmware version. The latest reviews suggest that it’s the most progressive motor available in trail mode, but still a little on/off in boost.

    I wonder if future Shimano motors will have the same form factor so you could retrofit into bikes with older motors? That would be a pretty compelling approach, and a sure way of selling more hardware for them.

  26. Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth. Id agree that peak power feels slightly stronger on brose.

    Shimano sounds like a really loud tamyia radio controlled car compared to the silent (v1.3) brose motor

  27. I have nothing to compare the Shimano to as it’s my first ebike but to me it isn’t noisy yes there is a slight noise but nothing more than that and it has more than enough power which I think is delivered really well, but as I said I am new to this world so what do I know, but I really like it :)
  28. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

  29. Back on the Decoy specifically if I was buying I think I’d go for the base model. Would you like to know why? No? Well too bad!

    E13 parts – don’t like them, would rather have good old mehanical Shimano. Been really impressed with the DT Swiss M1900 wheels on my Vitus (other than the undersized font hub bearings wearing quickly) so would rather have them. Also can’t see the point of Di2 on an MTB (although have used it on the road and love it), just seems like more expensive stuff to go wrong for little benefit

    Suspension – with the lower price I’d put a 2019 170mm air shaft in the Yari and might change the damper later. The rear shock is a bit of a let down but I believe the suspension curve is pretty progressive so I’d sell the Monarch new and put on a coil, can often pick up the Super Deluxe coils at a good price

    Swingarm – no issue with the carbon main frame and has a lot of advantages in terms of shape manipulation but carbon swing arms on a mountain bike just seem really vulnerable to wear and damage. Maybe irrational?

    If I was to do it I’d change the bars, stem and saddle from the Vitus, also my XT cranks, mech and shifter, because XT. Probably the E8000 display too as I like to see the mode from the colour at a glance. Would take a view on the swapping the Reverb and Guide RE brakes over

    However, I’m not in a position to change so with an eye to the future;

    Motor – I’m really happy with my E-Sommet so would rather wait for the next gen Shimano unit, whether that’s a year or two away. I would like mine to be quieter!

    Battery – would rather wait for the bigger unit (weight dependent). Might not be necessary if the real world performance of the 540 lives up to the promise showed in the release reviews?

    That’s my musings on it anyway

  30. One of the main things about the Shimano motor is that they have designed it to be upgraded over time by the user via software updates – how the E8000 behaves now vs the original software is very different.

    For me I went with it because I liked the way it rode the best ( caveated by the fact the Brose Mag wasn’t around at that time), and I think the user interface options are the best out there in terms of controllers and displays, and I really like the fact pretty much all the steps components are interchangeable, making it easy to get a set up you like – no display and no handlebar remote – you can go down that route, or you can go the other way and have a big display and a multifunction handlebar remote.

    I also think the motor itself is the most reliable on the market, and for me Shimano remain the kings of quality when it come to components generally.

    I am very tempted by the YT, but I also think we are going to be several significant bike launches over the next year, and of course we are expecting a new Bosch motor to be launched soon too.

    We are also going to be seeing bikes coming out with the new Panasonic, Polini, and Continental motors, all of which are lite and powerful.

  31. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

    AFAIC motors need noise. (even automatic leccy cars)

    Try riding moto trials with headphones on and music completely drowning out the revs.
    hearing the revs aids control. not hearing them hinders it.
    same thing (only subtler) with an Eeb
    I want to hear those revs. Both when descending or riding tecchnical terrain in a high assistance mode and for indication of when to ensure a light gear change

  32. That’s an interesting point Gary. I can’t drive a car with headphones on either for that reason.
  33. Thta is actually a very interesting point Gary, hadn’t really thought about it before but doing so now realise its omehting I do out riding
  34. I never said it was a bad thing, or a good one for that matter, but Bosch have long been slated for having the noisiest motors and that no longer seems to be the case. I don’t care if the motor I’m using is making a racket or not, however lots of other users do.
  35. Quite possibly.

    I should add I do listen out for mine making horrible noises as a warning of impending bearing failure.

  36. Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth.

    Thought the exact opposite the last time i rode a kenevo
    Not being able to see the mode probably didn’t help

    Are you sure the shimano you’re talking about wasn’t running older firmware?
    it’s very smooth at transitioning now. especially around the speed cut off

  37. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

  38. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

    There did seem to be a thing that when both shimano motors were next to each other that there was a certain resonance happening making them even louder.

    I do like the sound of the shimano, Its my favourite motor. (though Jetsetdeimos new levo felt really nice)

  39. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

    I believe the Shimano battery isn’t using tesla cells like YT and Specialized.

  40. I don’t think the YT and Specialized (only 700) are literally running Tesla cells but I’m willing to be corrected.
  41. I don’t think Tesla actually make their own cells, I thought they were in partnership with Panasonic… :unsure:
  42. Is this a Levo killer? But looking amazing

    It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I’d for sure return it if I didn’t get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

  43. One of the advantages of Shimano are their scale and compatibility between ranges. Theoretically they could come up with a DU-E9000 motor (90nm or lighter etc) and a new BT-E9020 (based on higher density cells) and it slot into an older bike as an upgrade.

    There’s also the over the air software updates as others have mentioned too.

  44. So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.
  45. So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.

    Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

  46. Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

    I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

    I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

  47. I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

    I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

    Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

  48. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

    Follow up to my earlier post with a little more math that might help explain?

    Stock Shimano battery is a 10s4p which is 10 in series and 4 parallel, 40 18650 cells total, which gives you a 36v (sic) system that with a 3500mAh cell will yield a 504wh battery: 36 x 3.5 = 126 (s) x 4 (p) = 504. If you used the highest known 18650 3900mAh cell you would have a 560wh battery in the stock form. So the possibility here is to in the future rebuild stock batteries with higher mAh cells and gain wh’s in the process. I foresee lots of that in the future as warranties go by the wayside and batteries lose their oomph after lots of charge cycles. In fact it would be advantageous to rebuild a battery with fresh cells over buy a NOS one off the shelf that who knows how long it has been on….

    The YT battery, and I am just doing some supposition here as I am not privy to the exact kind of cells it uses and although they may be Tesla "type" as they are leaders in 2170 technology they aren’t Tesla/Panasonics as they can hardly produce enough for their own use. Samsung, LG, Sony, and all the others are in on the new 2170 program but for sure whatever they are using, in order for it to be a 540wh battery, they are rating at 5000mAh or 1500mAh more than the 18650 top dog.

    OK, back to the math.

    So the YT battery is a 10s3p 30 cells total @ 36 x 5 = 180 (s) x 3 (p) = 540. Their upcoming 700wh battery will just add another 10 cells to make it a 10s4p.

    As I said in my last post the effect of having the extra 1500mAh per cell is two fold. It allows for a higher discharge rate due to the higher Amp rating so it will put out more power upon demand or longer run time if equal to the demand on a lesser mAh battery. That is a pretty simplified version…..

    Also a higher Amp battery will allow for higher charge rates and that is why Haibike is advertising 10A charge rate for the Flyon although you wouldn’t want to do that on a regular basis as it would degrade the battery exponentially over a more standard 4A charge. However once in awhile topping off fast over lunch isn’t a bad prospect.

    So that is why the YT battery is getting better range. A) because it has 40wh more capacity and B) because of it’s higher Amp rating and discharge of power more efficiently.

    I keep coming back to the looks of the YT and I do agree that they pretty much nailed it first try. It’s a handsome bike with all the right features in the right order. Although some might find fault with the type of features and the order they are in luckily there are ways to tweak them to the end users content.

  49. Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

    From YT Customer Services yesterday….for my order:

    Zendesk.jpg

    Christoph Pieschel (YT Industries)
    Apr 4, 08:15 CEST
    Hello Phillip,

    these are the specs of the fork:

    2019, 36, A, FLOAT, 29in, P-SE E-Bike+, 160, Grip 2, HSC, LSC, HSR, LSR, Matte Blk, PMS-642_Gloss/PMS-2195_Gloss Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE, +2VS

    I hope this is helpful to you.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
    Christoph Pieschel

  50. I hope Mr. Pieschel is correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?
  51. It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I’d for sure return it if I didn’t get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

    But Kenovo has still more travel, so in my opinion it’s more closed to Levo.

  52. I hope Mr. Pieschel is correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?

    Nick
    It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I’ve been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

    It’s in writing……so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

  53. Nick
    It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I’ve been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

    It’s in writing……so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

    Just been looking at some of my footage. This is the Pro and it looks like the Grip 2…

    View attachment 12646

  54. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob
  55. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob

    Good times indeed! The Pro seems like the best bang for buck, great suspension on that bike…

  56. I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.
  57. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob

    YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

  58. YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

    Lol Nick, let’s hope the poor bastard isn’t on the forum and let’s hope [email protected] and Rob’s photos are the facts we want.

    I’ll look forward to seeing some pics from customer bikes and I’ll post a pic up when mine arrives. Or the dispute resolution that I get in to 🙄

  59. I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.

    Quite a few Spesh batteries now out of warranty. Although Spesh are exceptionally nice to customers with warranty. I imagine all the worry some future e-bike owners have about batteries will all become a minor issue once the independent guys start rebuilding batteries. Be good to hear from one or two of them about what they can do, especially against a £1000 price tag for the current 700wh Spesh battery.

  60. I really like the YT decoy, it’s an amazing bike with top components!
    But i don’t like carbon… so nothing for me, i stick with my lovely Kenevo. It survived a big jumping crash two weeks ago without any harm (my ribs, arm and hand not so much), whereas with a carbon bike i wouldn’t feel save anymore.

    Carbon on gravity-oriented bikes? I don’t know… for the Pro’s or if you replace your bike every 1-2 years that’s fine… but if you like to ride your bike for longer… nah. But i know, it’s controversial ;)

  61. sort of agree with you @Donnie797
    but…
    the areas that see the most rock strikes are under the downtube, BB area and stays
    on the BASE Decoy the downtube is actually the armoured battery casing. The BB area is the bolt on E8000 motor WITH bashguard and the stays are Alu.
    Kind of a hint as to which model interests me most ,)

    Yes top tubes and the side of the downtube (and even the seat tube can take a battering in a crash too. I’m well aware of this. As are YT hence the knockblock headset – Which I really wouldn’t want and unless the fork crown hits the downtube.
    No bike of mine has levers in a position that can hit my top tube and I like to pull the odd X-up.
    Not a deal breakier if it needs the knockblock to stop the crown contacting the battery, though
    if not hopefully it can be replaced with a standard headset.

    Were the front triangle alu I reckon the Decoy frame would be far too heavy for me to even consider.

    My Capra is ridden exactly the same as my E-sommet and DH bikes and has held up well. full carbn front end and carbon seat stays. Alu chainstay and linkage.

    It’d be crazy not to admit Carbon is less durable and that when it fails it does so in a completely different manner to alu but I can (just about) live with those facts. One of the worst things for me about Carbon is how easily it rubs away if scuffed. I’ve seen a mate’s chainstay wear away completely and fail because of heel rub on a Carbon XC bike. this also means you need to be extra protective when transporting Carbon framed bikes and a PITA compared to Alu.
    I recently made cardboard/garffer pedal booties to put on mine and my mates bikes pedals as a protective measure so as not to get pedal pin gouges on our carbon frames when transporting them all together in a mate’s van.
    He didn’t GAF. but I do.

    @Rob Hancill do you know if the fork crown (f wheel at 90deg) would clear the downtube/battery on the models you saw/rode/tested?

  62. Love the way u put/out it, not easy to ballance the Commercial incitatements with true to experience eventual criticals. Big shout out to the aproach as an IRL average rider, largest chunk of the market is! Kept in mind, many off us out there are actually buying on rev/test, results, it means the world to many potential customers, stay true and keep that balance – Respect! Sorry for the abuse of the English language, im Swedsh!
  63. @Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user –>FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software
  64. @Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user –>FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software

    No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

    They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

  65. No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

    They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

    I’m running the latest Shimano software on my E800 (well last updated on Monday) & yes you can customise it the same way as the last 2 updates, eco is always eco but you can mess with trail & boost to give you more or less power in each. I just leave it in explorer as I think it is optimised for battery life.
    FWIW I read your original article as you can customise the motor on the YT the same way you can on any other Shimano E800.

    Cheers.

  66. As far as I am aware this functionality (further tenability beyond what has been available for the last 8 months or so) isn’t out yet on the app, but haven’t checked for any update in a while. I have heard rumours that something is in the works though
  67. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.
  68. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I’ve come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn’t effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

  69. That wouldnt even be enough time for shipping to/from Germany from here in New Zealand so dont see much up take down this way
  70. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    Well, do not count on it. I heard 3 weeks every time to. Took 5 weeks to fix shock (2 times). Took 5 weeks to fix crank (2 times). Took more than 10 weeks to change frame that was in stock. Both shock and crank issues were well known problems with those parts.

    If I could have handled the warranty cases the same as with another mail order brand the shock and crank issue would probably be handled in about a week. But with YT everything has to go back to them and then to to manufacturers service.

  71. 3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I’ve come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn’t effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

    Fair comment, given what it appears your job is? But surely you have more than one bike? if your profession is using a bike? Cost control is a key part of running a business, your bike might be twice as expensive as a similar bike that does exactly the same job? Plus business resilience, what if your LBS just didn’t have the grumpetsproggle pin that the motor needed and it was a 3 week back order part (noisy Brose motor wasn’t fixed for weeks was it?).

    For most Northerners, it would take a full day for us to drive to a Spesh dealer of the quality that [email protected] Cycles is. That’s a full day round trip, booked in advance, time off work, £60-100 of fuel and food and it’s not going to happen the day after the bike eats itself!

    Let’s be fair here, the direct sales proposition is seriously compelling on value and the current German bikes aren’t lagging on design, quality or performance (does anyone not like the Decoy?). But the personal touch when your bike has got some issues will be different for us direct sales customers to those of you having a (genuinely local) LBS.

    The direct sales option is the only way to get our arses on to a Decoy or Spectral/Neuron. I imagine if Spesh made the Levo/Kenevo direct via Switzerland we’d still buy them, because they are awesome!

    What the UK could really benefit from is more independents who invest in a brand, perhaps have courtesy bikes (revenue opportunity) and get a daily DHL pick up/drop off to Germany along with some spares and tech know-how.

    I’m going to suggest someone asks Chris if he’s got perhaps £250k to invest in that little idea….🤪

    What differentiates the Spesh retail model is that you CANNOT send your broken bits directly back to the factory for a factory-fix. Given how we all love a ‘Factory’ Fox Fork…..isn’t that just the best thing about having a YT or Canyon? Everything on them is a factory spec component.

    I’m a total convert, but I do have a few bikes to jump on should one be broken, wearing the wrong tyres or needing some fettling. So I’m massively biased and their target customer. Zero discounts available for us as well, their business model is that tight.

  72. The warranty thing does bother me, but I expect I’ll hang onto my Trek for a while if I do buy a Decoy. (Currently organising demo days on the Intense Tazer and Rocky Mountain Powerplay)
  73. and who repairs the bike after two years? I ordered a Decoy base and I am more worried if someone fixes my motor after warranty

    eia, it might not need fixing! It might work perfectly. But it will wear out. I’m going to suggest you pay a Shimano approved LBS to fix your worn out motor after the warranty has expired. The software is Shimano’s so it will be fine. It won’t be free if you wear anything out, even in warranty. The battery? Well that’s bound to be fixable by the independent guys who aren’t shy of making things work better and more powerful than original spec.
    Get stuck in! Otherwise you’ll be missing all the fun.

  74. So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there’s a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

    The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

    I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

  75. So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there’s a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

    The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

    I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

    R120

    I’ve got one of those bikes that has less problems and has never let me down. It’s just a traditional old Capra. It’s very often me that is broken (or at work) on those perfect blue days 😋

    On one thing we all agree…..adding electrical bits to anything makes them more fun and certain to fail!

    Happily, I’m a ‘cup half full’ bloke (I think that comes with having more than one bike). And I can honestly say, every bike I have needs something fettling, swapping or hitting with a hammer. But they do get some use.

  76. I have two Vitus’s with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back – however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

    For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB’s, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

    If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

    I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

  77. I have two Vitus’s with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back – however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

    For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB’s, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

    If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

    I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

    Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components – they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

    Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery….? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

  78. I’m a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

    The YT looks like a good deal for me. Has the components I want without having to swap stuff right away. Also was the only bike on my wanted list that I could actually order…everything else not available to even order; probably just the way it worked out.

  79. Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components – they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

    Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery….? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

    But component companies do want you to upgrade the parts – one of the advantages of having an off the shelf system like the Shimano (you will notice all bikes using the external battery from Shimano all have to use the stock battery mounting system) is that they make stuff retro compatible, and I would have though it is a massive market to bring out a battery of higher capacity that works with the existing mounts. They have shown to date that with their EBike systems, new components tend to work with he older systems

  80. I’m a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

    You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
    😱

  81. You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
    😱

    Yes, about $1K US. Compared to the price of Sworks I was trying to buy; that would let me buy 5 spare motors :) actually 6 since I have to pay local tax with the Spec dealer.

  82. If you really have a few grand to splash around willy nilly you’d be better off buying a complete E8000 driven hardtail to compliment the Decoy and use as a spares horse..
    Had thought about this myself having seen plenty under £2k. It would have given me a nice local XC/commuting bike, spare bike for friends and parts wise spare pretty much "everything" bar suspension components, Not to mention an extra battery for longer rides. If the motor in my FS Emtb needed warranty swapping over a motor is less than an hours work. (so long as cable routing isn’t a ballache)

    I was really tempted to do this when CRC reduced the E-Sentier last year. I think it meant the VR would have been down to something crazy like £1600 with discount. But I realised I just wouldn’t have ridden it. (I just prefer my regular hardtails, and love riding my regular roadbike)

  83. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    I get it that YT have probably produced a great bike, (personally I love most of what YT have done in the last few years), but it is a different bike to the S Works Levo, so to say it is an equivalent is somewhat wide of the mark!
    Levo has different geometry, targeting a different type of terrain.
    Levo (SWorks) has a bigger battery and (all Levo’s) have a more powerful motor system.
    Levo has a different route to market (some prefer one, others prefer the other).
    Levo exists in the market today, not sure the Decoy has been delivered to single customer yet.

    Sure they both have high end components on them, but a bike is a system, and different to just the sum of its OEM parts. You can prefer one to the other, but the same they are not.

  84. Great post – for me the single most important thing when looking at EMTB’s once you have nailed down your choice to a couple of models that fit you and suit your riding, is the integrating of the motor and battery systems – there is a big difference between riding a model that is basically a normal bike adapted to be an EMTB and one designed from the ground up as one
  85. With the Levo being seen as the benchmark eMTB it is inevitable that comparisons will be made, but what do you use as the marker? Price or Spec? Either way the YT is the winner on paper so you need to dig deeper as @Rob Hancill has done and decide what you want from a bike. Trail or Enduro type riding, these bikes will do both but each is biased to a different part of the spectrum. One thing is for sure; neither is likely to disappoint.
  86. By pretty much everyone new to eBikes. The Spesh marketing behemoth has done it’s job well. How many threads get started "So I’m thinking of getting a Levo"?
  87. Someone was asking about frame bump stops from forks hitting the frame. Here’s the pic.
  88. Hmm… fair enough really @Doomanic
    It’s a great bike with an even greater marketing strategy behind it.
    Just not even on my radar as far as any sort of benchmark is concerned.

    As for what I use as my marker. it’s always been a combination of geometry (incl sizing and wheelsize), travel and suspension design no matter whether an mtb or an emtb.

    I think the fact Spesh have been making good emtbs for so long and were prepared to address a lot of the main gripes of Emtbs in general (weight and battery range being the main two) has gone a long way to making the current Levo seem like the benchmark.
    in reality though. it’s not actually all that light is it? (do consider it’s a trail bike rather than an enduro bike here). The larger range I presume also means a larger heavier battery?
    The motor is possibly quieter and smoother than many others. But TBH I love the Shimano in current firmware configuration.
    What else does the Levo do though?
    Oh.. .yeah… it’s got that app that’ll make you a coffee to be ready at the end of your ride hasn’t it?

    ;)

    I think most emtb manufacturers are missing a huge trick not having a great dealer network prepared to bend over backwards to help the customer. This seems to be the main worry with almost all noobs.

  89. Someone was asking about frame bump stops from forks hitting the frame. Here’s the pic.

    View attachment 12726

    Thanks Rob.

    I was asking if the fork top caps/crown actually conracted the downtube. i guess if they’ve fitted a physical bump stop AND a knockblock headset there must be some contact.

    If so this makes me a little sad.

  90. Thanks Rob.

    I was asking if the fork top caps/crown actually conracted the downtube. i guess if they’ve fitted a physical bump stop AND a knockblock headset there must be some contact.

    If so this makes me a little sad.

    Gary

    We shall see when the bikes arrive. My take on bump stops on ebikes is two-fold. Firstly they stop a full handlebar spin from occurring when steering lock is hard over AND power applied. Easily done, especially in tech riding and with the torque pushing the front end.

    Secondly, they might well stop top caps/forks from striking the fat battery engorged down-tube.

    What’s your sadness? Is it because you can’t spin the bars 360 when you get max air off a jump? 😉

  91. They have one purpose, on any bike they are fitted to, and that is to stop the fork crown hitting the downtube on bikes where the design means this might be an issue – I have never felt on the Shimano motor that the torque might effect the steering in any way!
  92. @Jedipip Yeah mate. just X-Ups and whips.
    That and well… I kinda have issues with rules and authority ;)

    Whips aint a biggie.. but if you whip a dual crown fork hard enough you can use the impact of the bump stop against the frame to whip it out and straighten the bike up. It’s not something I like to do but have done. I probably won’t do it but if you were to I’m not sure how either the bumpstops or the headset are going to like it.

    a full handle bar spin has never been a problem on any bike of mine. they all have long enough cables for a full X-up and it’s once in an extremely blue moon when you have ste sort of crash that takes your front wheel anywhaere near past 180deg.

    I’ve no idea what the scenario you’re describing under power is. for one thing your leg is going to be in the way of the bars going too far.

  93. Bit tarty I know but there was no Lyrik option available[emoji1]

    My Capra is sporting the gold bits 😝
    I am not a convert to carbon rims or Di2. My aluminium rims have been battered from local trails to the Alps and Snowdon and I just read horror stories about rims made of plastic and carbon fibre. I need convincing they’d hold up to some meaty rock strikes…..
    Because of one thing I am certain, this bike is going to be hitting everything!

  94. I dunno, need all the enhancements I can get, those curbs down Asda can be a real challenge….
  95. So the E-Sommet is going back to Wiggle under the 30 days test ride.
    The Pro model has been ordered.

    My justification for not spending another £1k is carbon wheels not so important on a 50lb bike, factory dropper would have be sold regardless as I’ll put a 185mm Revive on it, kashima coating on forks is mainly cosmetic, not interested in Di2.

    Then spend the £1k saved on a EXT Storia LOK V3 which is easily the best shock (both coil and aircan) I have ever ridden.

  96. It’s really all just down to my own personal preference Dom.
    Coming from DJ and old skool DH background I’m more of a #264LYF type of rider. Sort of the opposite of a lot of new skool enduro/trail rider with their super long super stable (but less nimble) bikes and riding styles
    I’m 5’11" so not exactly tall and just don’t get on with 29er mtbs at all. I can ride them (possibly actually faster in many situations) but I just can’t stand the lean in the higher axle and larger diameter wheels gives when turning/changing direction. It’s far more of an enjoyment preference than anything to do with the larger wheels performance in covering ground fast for me.
    I’d also far rather have a mismatch in suspension travel (in favour of more up front) over less fork travel and a larger diameter front wheel. this also allows more scope for finetuning of ride height via suspension settings.

    We don’t ride "Moto" bikes (proper engine ones). they’d actually be worse for the sort of riding I tend to do and aren’t designed to. I’ve always run a grippier front tyre up front. (since the early days of BMX) which means either a softer compound, more aggressive tread, or larger volume (or a combination of the 3) front tyre. The 29 front, 27.5+ rear idea goes against this thinking some what.

    plus, as I said earlier in the thread. I can lower and slacken the bike by doing this gaining stability without sacrificing nimbleness

    I hope this helps you understand slightly better where I’m coming from

    Before anyone brings up Maes (#no_spoilers ;)). He wasn’t using a rear plus tyre
    He is making the most out of 27.5’s smaller diameter for pretty much the same reasons I love 26" in the rear :eek: o_O

    :unsure:

    Hi, you are 5’11” and ordered YT decoy size M? Just asking, because I am 5’10” and also would chose M size according to measurements (although YT suggests L…)
    I also read 2 different tests, both test riders were 5’10” and prefered L size…
    What is your opinion on YT decoy sizing?
    Thanks

  97. My opinion on sizing is old skool (and from an exDHer/DJer slant) so my choice will only be relevant if you’re a similar type of rider to me.

    I can’t stand modern overly long reach bikes.
    Add 15lb of motor and battery to a Loooong modern bike and they become a chore to raise the front end (manual), hop and get playful on.
    That extra weight all central and down low makes the Ebike more stable than any non-Ebike anyway.

    If you’re not a playful rider and want an ultimate plow bike that chunders through everything and gives you massive confidence at high speed go Large. If you prefer picking lines, popping around and playing in the air go Med… I’ve no qualms about going flat out on shorter bikes (been doing it 25 years+)
    Long bikes still jump well… they just feel and react quite differently in the air and popping (especially on steep or lippy kicks)

    Medium sizing on the Decoy is almost exactly the same as my small (yes SMALL!) EsommetVR and I definitely don’t want anything longer.
    Neither bike is short. They’re just not long by modern fashionable sizing standards.

    [edit] Hold on. didn’t I already say most of this in the bit you quoted?

    What are you asking exactly?

  98. My opinion on sizing is old skool (and from an exDHer/DJer slant) so my choice will only be relevant if you’re a similar type of rider to me.

    I can’t stand modern overly long reach bikes.
    Add 15lb of motor and battery to a Loooong modern bike and they become a chore to raise the front end (manual), hop and get playful on.
    That extra weight all central and down low makes the Ebike more stable than any non-Ebike anyway.

    If you’re not a playful rider and want an ultimate plow bike that chunders through everything and gives you massive confidence at high speed go Large. If you prefer picking lines, popping around and playing in the air go Med… I’ve no qualms about going flat out on shorter bikes (been doing it 25 years+)
    Long bikes still jump well… they just feel and react quite differently in the air and popping (especially on steep or lippy kicks)

    Medium sizing on the Decoy is almost exactly the same as my small (yes SMALL!) EsommetVR and I definitely don’t want anything longer.
    Neither bike is short. They’re just not long by modern fashionable sizing standards.

    [edit] Hold on. didn’t I already say most of this in the bit you quoted?

    What are you asking exactly?

    Thanks for the answer, that is what I needed and hoped for☺
    I just sometimes feel weird when looking at those suggestions about sizing when my body, experience and feel telling me something different😁

  99. Rob, any idea if also base model would/could be equipped with 700Wh battery once its released?

    It could be but honestly no idea if they plan to. I’d think that they’d leave the base model at that £4199 price and spec the pro / pro race with the higher battery (and charge a bit more).

  100. They should just offer each spec variant with two battery options. I can see why brands sold in bricks and mortar LBS’ would probably never want to do that, but for a direct sales brand like YT it’s no different from any other option they offer (I’m sure they build up the bikes after they’ve been ordered in most cases).
  101. It could be but honestly no idea if they plan to. I’d think that they’d leave the base model at that £4199 price and spec the pro / pro race with the higher battery (and charge a bit more).

    It’s all new ground being covered off here. Firstly the 540wh Decoy battery seems to have a little more power than current standard batteries (cell design and spec, not just the extra cells). But here we have yet more exciting innovation in that new buyers of the bikes will get a discount upgrade option for the larger battery when they are ready; how will that work? a return-to-base battery option or keep it as a spare and have a huge 1240wh capability on a day out?
    e-biking is genuinely more exciting to be involved in than traditional MTB’s where i’ve seen nothing truly new in the last 4 years or so.

    It’s going to be fun watching what The competitors do and how Canyon in particular react to YT.

    Surely Prices will plummet for the current crop of £4-5K aluminium e-bikes?

  102. By the sound of the huge rock hitting my lower frame yesterday, i am glad i was on a aluminium frame (with a frame protector made in carbon, that got deep battle scars).
    Carbon sure is lightweight, but thats pretty much all it got against alu.

    I dont like all brands going carbon, even Merida is going there now according to rumors.

  103. By the sound of the huge rock hitting my lower frame yesterday, i am glad i was on a aluminium frame (with a frame protector made in carbon, that got deep battle scars).
    Carbon sure is lightweight, but thats pretty much all it got against alu.

    I dont like all brands going carbon, even Merida is going there now according to rumors.

    Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

  104. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

    My last Rocky Mountain Instinct BC was a carbon frame, so i`ve had it and i know they are strong as.. But only while undamaged.
    Think this way, if you crash and youre frame hits a rock and gets a good scar/damage point (the alu would probably get a dent), which would you prefer to keep riding ?
    We all know carbon get very much weaker when scratched/bruized.

    As much as i love carbon as a material, i really dont see any benefits other than weight on a mtb/emtb, especially one i`m going to go crash down rocky trails every now and then.

    But i see that it`s almost impossible not to go carbon again on my next bike when due, as all brands goes that direction on the premium bikes.

    And it might be the decoy one day, as it really looks great!

  105. My last Rocky Mountain Instinct BC was a carbon frame, so i`ve had it and i know they are strong as.. But only while undamaged.
    Think this way, if you crash and youre frame hits a rock and gets a good scar/damage point (the alu would probably get a dent), which would you prefer to keep riding ?
    We all know carbon get very much weaker when scratched/bruized.

    As much as i love carbon as a material, i really dont see any benefits other than weight on a mtb/emtb, especially one i`m going to go crash down rocky trails every now and then.

    But i see that it`s almost impossible not to go carbon again on my next bike when due, as all brands goes that direction on the premium bikes.

    And it might be the decoy one day, as it really looks great!

    Weight is a fairly important factor. I just don’t see any increase in frame damage (between friends, forums and publications) since the big move to carbon so I don’t really see it as a problem.

    I’ve been in A&E a few times in the past few years (fractured vertebrae and internal bleeding) and my carbon bike has come off a lot better than me :LOL:

    Maybe there will come point where I do dent/damage a carbon frame, it’s just I don’t hear about it happening very much.

  106. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff

    Thing is. Pretty much no one who races DH or enduro seriously keeps a frame for more than one season.
    I have carbon frames too but am under no illusion it’s anywhere near as durable as Alu. Strong. Yes. Durable. no.
    eg. I’ve seen a riding friends carbon chainstay wear through in one winter from heel rub.
    The other thing about Carbon is because of the high price most carbon frames/bikes bought at full RRP are bought by people who treat them with kid gloves. fully protective taping them, fitting downtube guards etc, (ironically often negating the weight saving) and being very careful with them.
    One bonus of Carbon over alu is it’s ability to be repaired even after catrastrophic tube failure. whether it is cost effective is another matter entirely though.

  107. Thing is. Pretty much no one who races DH or enduro seriously keeps a frame for more than one season.
    I have carbon frames too but am under no illusion it’s anywhere near as durable as Alu.

    There are far more amateurs than pros who keep their frames for as long as possible. I know plenty of guys who race off a shoe string budget.

  108. There are far more amateurs than pros who keep their frames for as long as possible. I know plenty of guys who race off a shoe string budget.

    Yeah. I said racing DH or Enduro seriously.

    If you want to race seriously and want to keep your frame for as long as possible Carbon might not be the best choice.

  109. This wait is killing me! This has been the longest two weeks of my life. Not sure how I’ll make it to 6/6. I keep searching for decoy posts on google and ig, but it seems they’ve only been seen/ridden at the press camp.
  110. This wait is killing me! This has been the longest two weeks of my life. Not sure how I’ll make it to 6/6. I keep searching for decoy posts on google and ig, but it seems they’ve only been seen/ridden at the press camp.

    …and 6/6 is when the wait really begins 😂

    I’m not a YT novice. One of two things will happen. It’ll arrive when you aren’t expecting it to be so quick, or you’ll get the email saying it’s on it’s way…..and it’ll arrive when you don’t expect it to 🤣

  111. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

    It depends on personal experience – the only frame I have broken was a carbon Cannondale Rush and the seat post exploded, so this puts me off Carbon frames since 2009…also all the rock flying up and hitting the frame is a big risk on carbon.

  112. It depends on personal experience – the only frame I have broken was a carbon Cannondale Rush and the seat post exploded, so this puts me off Carbon frames since 2009…also all the rock flying up and hitting the frame is a big risk on carbon.

    Fair enough, I have flown through places like antur stiniog and north wales with big chunks of rock destroying my shins and forks but my frame is fine.

    It does seem that since 2015 there have been big improvements in carbon durability.

  113. I ordered the base model just after rob dropped his video! ETA 5/15. I went with the base cause I have an Avalanche damper for the yari and a bunch of carbon component to swap in. I was waiting for an EP deal on the new levo or the Flyon, but honestly I like the looks and package of this bike way more. I’m stoked!

    Did YT charge your credit card at the time of order?

  114. That is not iaw European law, they are not allowed to charge your CC before the stuff you buy are ready for immediate delivery.

    Karsten

    Karsten

    Are you sure it EU Law? It might be credit card rules, but not actually a law. Obviously in the UK we don’t give a damn about EU law 🤪 but I’d like to know which law it is if it’s out there.

    And if you are aggrieved because you believe you shouldn’t have been charged then you raise it with your credit card company and they may well reimburse you and charge back the amount…..

    Meaning no Decoy.

    You pays your money. You take your chances. It was clear in the purchase contract that the delivery would be some months after the initial order/purchase.

  115. I ordered the base model just after rob dropped his video! ETA 5/15. I went with the base cause I have an Avalanche damper for the yari and a bunch of carbon component to swap in. I was waiting for an EP deal on the new levo or the Flyon, but honestly I like the looks and package of this bike way more. I’m stoked!

    Nick can you get your bike in to Invisiframe quick!?

    I wrapped my Rawr Capra before I rode it and it’s like new!

    I’d like a kit waiting for my Decoy when it lands in June ☺️

  116. Karsten

    Are you sure it EU Law? It might be credit card rules, but not actually a law. Obviously in the UK we don’t give a damn about EU law 🤪 but I’d like to know which law it is if it’s out there.

    And if you are aggrieved because you believe you shouldn’t have been charged then you raise it with your credit card company and they may well reimburse you and charge back the amount…..

    Meaning no Decoy.

    You pays your money. You take your chances. It was clear in the purchase contract that the delivery would be some months after the initial order/purchase.

    My mistake as I just checked the European consumer law and from a EU perspective there are not any common laws stating that they cannot draw the money right away. However there is a 30 day period from where you pay to where the goods should be delivered. Indirectly that indicates that they can only draw the money 30 days prior to shipping but the area is a grey zone.

    The reason why I mixed it up is the fact that within Scandinavia there is a common law that money should not be drawn before actual shipment of goods and all online stores comply with it.

    Karsten

  117. I should have said I’m in the states, where you’re encourages to acquire lots of debt regardless if you acquire any assets in the process. 🤦‍♂️

    I’ve got a whole box full of Xpel Stealth wrap. So I’ll be doing my own ghetto invisiframe. I think the contours on the decoy will make application easy, but trimming the wrap to fit before application will take a lot of time. That’s ok tho I’ll be wanting to spend lots of quality time with my new bae.

  118. I thought Invisframe has to have access to a bike do that they could measure up and make some patterns before they could sell a kit for it. So don’t expect to be able to buy a kit when the bike isn’t even in the UK yet.

    On anther Forum, I read that someone got a free or heavily discounted Invisframe kit because he sent his bike to them for copying.

  119. My Carbon Capra came from YT already fully heli-taped.

    not that this information is particularly relevant either. Just sayin’
    ;)

  120. all the raw carbon/Stealth black 2017/18 frames had factory heli tape fitted.

    I actually only bought the Carbon because it came in stealth black ;)

  121. YT confirmed to me yesterday via email that they will NOT be producing a fast charger in the forseeable future, so that is something to bear in mind as some of the competition will be doing that this year.
  122. Just ordered a Base model. I know the pro is great value but could not wait until August!

    Was looking at this, the Norco Sight or the Tazer

    Evans were as rubbish as you would expect so ruled the sight out. Was going to go with the Tazer but had a reality check over the price so YT is is! I am going to struggle with the wait though.

  123. Just ordered a Base model. I know the pro is great value but could not wait until August!

    Was looking at this, the Norco Sight or the Tazer

    Evans were as rubbish as you would expect so ruled the sight out. Was going to go with the Tazer but had a reality check over the price so YT is is! I am going to struggle with the wait though.

    What’s your ‘in stock’ date?

    I’m keen to see how it goes from in stock to delivered!

  124. Funny, my order of the CF Pro says “has not been processed” I’m in the states. Also, have you read where it states, “battery must be removed, before transport?” Why, and how many of us will actually do that?
  125. What’s your ‘in stock’ date?

    I’m keen to see how it goes from in stock to delivered!

    I’ll keep updating. At the moment the order is in processing (guess it will stay that way until the bike is in stock) Estimated stock date is 22nd May

  126. I actually just cancelled my order and am going to keep my Focus and see how the Decoy shakes out.

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