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YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

160MM Gravity focussed EMTB from the direct to consumer brand

Price
£4199 (Base), £4999 (Pro), £5999 (Pro Race)
Wheels
29" Front, 27.5" Rear
Travel
160mm Fork, 165mm Shock
Motor
Shimano E8000
Weight
21.9KG (Pro Race)
Battery
540Wh YT Custom

Firstly, let me clear this up. The YT Decoy goes straight into the top few ebikes that you can buy right now. Looks? Stunning. Performance? Outstanding. But what makes this bike stand out from the huge amount of ebikes that have recently been released? Read on to find out exactly why I love this bike.

The all new YT Decoy. One of the most ambitious projects that the YT Industries team have released to date. I was invited to the launch of the bike in the south of France and spent a few days learning about the bike and riding it in the beautiful French mountains. So lets take a deeper look into the bike, the technology and design then take a look at how the bike performs.

YT Decoy Development

YT could have released an electric mountain bike a year ago. Easy. Just buy a motor and battery package from Shimano. Make some modifications to an existing frame (Capra / Jeffsy), bolt on the motor, pop the battery on the front triangle and ship it to the consumer. Job done, YT have an ebike.

But that’s not how YT work. As we were presented the new bike via a slideshow presentation before the unveiling, it was clear that YT wanted to get this bike as, well, “YT” as possible. Lets start with the vision. The YT Decoy has been designed to look like a YT. It’s been designed so it doesn’t stick out, with gravity at its core and an integrated design. The YT Decoy represents what YT believe an EMTB should be.

Check the video for a closer look, test ride and chat with Stefan Willared from YT Industries

It’s taken almost 3 years to develop. A large chunk of that development time has been the custom battery that YT have commissioned, that is integrated into the downtube and secured into the frame with 2 bolts. Designing your own battery is complex and costly. YT have partnered with Simplo who manufacture the batteries to YT’s specification. Once the battery design and manufacturing process is finalised it need to be certified before it can be actually be mass produced and sold.

The YT Decoy uses 540Wh battery loaded with thirty of the latest generation 21700 cells (same as Tesla in fact). YT are proud that their finalised product passed the rigorous testing procedures with ease, in fact, there was not a single failure, or anything near a failure, so much so that the testers were pretty amazed how well that YT had done, even more so considering that it’s the companies’ first ebike.

Phototography: Jack Tennyson & Johan Hjord

YT Decoy
540Wh battery, 21700 cells and neatly integrated into the underside of the down tube. Charging port at the top. Yep, well sealed (I checked!)

The battery has hard plastic on the underside with the DECOY branding etched into it. At the top, straight in the line of fire for mud and water (especially for UK riders!) is the charging port. I was quite keen to understand how this would cope with the worst weather conditions.

We’ve made 4 versions of the battery cover and improved it every time. We’ve tested it thoroughly, in all conditions, and blasted a pressure washer at it on maximum. It survived everything.

YT Industries engineering

Whilst we’re on the subject of the battery I wanted to talk a bit about the battery life. It’s still a big talking point and whilst mileage varies hugely, I was seriously impressed with the performance. I managed 36 KM on day two of riding (varied terrain, some ascents and shuttles back to the top) and I had used only 2 out of 5 bars. Now, I know this is not hugely accurate; there are so many variables, but I’ve ridden enough of the Shimano equipped bikes to know that this is some impressive range. Even more so as I was using Boost a lot.

I asked Stefan Willared, the CTO for YT, about the battery and mentioned the impressive range. He mentioned that they are using 21700 cells in the battery and the fact that the entire battery is only as good as the worst cell in the complete pack. The 21700 are well regarded as great performers.

YT Decoy Frame, geometry and design details

Frame
Full Carbon (Pro / Race)
Head Andle
65 degrees
Chainstay
442mm
BASE Model
£4199, Carbon Front, Alu Rear, Rockshox Suspension
PRO Model
£4999, Full Carbon, Fox 36 and DPX2 Shock
PRO RACE Model
£5999, Full Carbon, e-thirteen Carbon Wheelset, Shimano Di2, Fox Factory

Five size options. Yep, right up to XXL with a reach of 495mm. The bike is position somewhere between the Capra and Jeffsy in terms of geometry and travel, with a 65 degree headtube angle, a 76 degree seat angle and short (by ebike standards) chainstay at 442mm. Fork is 160mm and rear travel is 165mm. You could also run with a 170mm on the front.

YT Decoy
Chainstay protection to reduce noise
YT Decoy
Neatly integrated cable routing
YT Decoy geometry
YT Decoy Geometry Chart

YT Decoy is rocking moto-style mixed wheels, with a 29er up front with a 2.5″ Maxxis Minion DHF and a 27.5″ at the rear with a DHR2 at 2.8″. I suspect this config helps keep the chainstay shorter instead of full on 29er, and some benefits with the chunkier rubber on the rear for climbing the steep stuff.

The YT Decoy has a progressive tune for its travel, via a virtual 4 bar rear end, designed to give an off-the-top sensitive initial stroke, ample mid stroke support and a more progressive end stroke. Their team had a goal of minimising pedal kickback to reduce any unwanted forces against the motion of the motor whilst riding.

Look closer and you’ll see some very cool details. Frame protection on the chainstay to stop unwanted chain slap on both the chain stay and underside of the seat stay. Single sided, sealed bearings for the swing arm. Neatly integrated cable routing into the frame, so the end customer doesn’t have to mess around later on with routing (it’ll thread straight through without any messing).

It’s evident that YT are thinking about the end consumer, not just for aesthetics but also to minimise the amount of service and warranty issues later down the line.

YT DECOY, THE LITTLE DETAILS

It’s the little things that have been taken into consideration to keep the customer experience as good as possible. Let’s face it, it’s a direct to consumer bike brand, it’s important to get this stuff right.

It’s not just the functional stuff either. The look is exquisitely refined, every detail has been thought about. The Shimano E8000 motor has been paired with some of the more discreet Shimano E7000 components. Instead of using the bigger, more colourful E8000 display, YT chose to place the ‘lower’ model on the bars. Not because of cost. Because it is slightly smaller and is less distracting that the colour display.

The speed controller is the super low profile E7000 switch. It’s way nicer to use than the E8000 clickty-clackety under bar mode controller. And on the Pro Race model, equipped with Di2 shifting, there’s even the E7000 controller used there to shift. This also helps provide one of the cleanest EMTB bars that you’ll ever see. The thin controller wires are still there, just hidden neatly with rubber straps that make it super low profile and clean.

Back to the frame. The lines and aesthetics have a pleasing look. Sharp, bold but not too in your face. More refined and classy than brash. The paint is simple but well done and compliments the carbon lines. Geometry is bang up to date and with 5 sizes with reach up to 495mm in XXL you wont struggle to find a great fit. There’s a flip chip too. The default ‘Super low’ position results in the 65 degree head angle. Change it up to ‘Low’ and you’ll add half a degree to both the head angle (65.5 degree) and the seat angle (76.5 degree). Neat.

YT Decoy Components

Top spec Pro Race is oozing with quality kit. 160mm Fox Factory E-Bike 36 forks, carbon wheels, Code RSC brakes, Shimano Di2 shifting, Fox Transfer dropper, e-Thirteen TRS Plus cassette, 165mm crank arms to name a few of the standouts. The whole range offers excellent value though. The standout perhaps being the full carbon Pro model, at £4999, provides outstanding bang for buck. Click the cards below to see full listing.

If you’re wondering why YT chose a Shimano motor over, perhaps a German brand, such as Brose, Bosch or even Fazua… me too. Until I though a bit more about their model. Being a Direct to Consumer brand means that in the event that something goes wrong with the motor it’s critical that the customer can get it fixed. Quick.

I don’t think that Brose offer any way, other than via a dealer, to get support. So that rules that one out. I doubt any dealer would be willing to support YT in house. Bosch? Well, it’s a bit long in the tooth and due a refresh. The Fazua probably doesnt offer enough torque and ultimate power for the intented gravity use of the Decoy.

YT Decoy Shimano Motor
E8000 motor is neatly integrated

So Shimano kind of makes sense. There’s a bunch of Shimano service centres that can help. Not quite as easy as turning up to a dealer to get it sorted there and then, but the next best solution. In the event that the battery needs service, this will be dealt with directly by YT.

The Shimano E8000 is a good motor but its not as refined as the Brose Mag S. Its a bit louder, especially in Boost mode. It also feels a bit too digital in Boost and has a bit too much of an on/off feeling, both at the initial pedal stroke and near the 15.5mph / 25kph limit.

With 70Nm of claimed torque (it actually feels more than that to me) it’s got enough punch to help you up some pretty steep stuff. Or just generally hooning it about if thats what you like.

But as an overall package it works well. I do hope Shimano refine the power delivery a bit more though. That can be done later down the line via firmware updates, which by the way are over the air, so you’re not going to need to visit the dealer to update the bike like you do with the Brose motors and some others.

Riding the YT Decoy

I was riding the £5999 top spec Pro Race model. Firstly, I crashed it. A lot (Sorry YT!). But I bloody loved it. I think I annoyed the photographers a little bit as I couldn’t pull off some of the steezy moves that some of the other skilled journos were able to. I’m not the worlds best rider. Barely average in fact. When I ride the bikes I try to represent real world riders (that’s what I keep telling myself anyway!).

By the way, I didn’t crash because of the bike. The terrain was way more sketchy than I’m used to (I ride more trail centres and well manicured routes in the south of the UK). Our rides were using the bike at what it does best. Riding down a mountain and shuttling back to the top.

We had two full on days on the bike in the South of France and took on some epic mountain routes. Breathtaking scenery with some loose rocky descents, drops, slabs, rooty singletrack. In fact we covered a wide range of terrain to really test the bike.

YT Decoy on the trails
The bike provided a stable and confident platform for these epic descents with a low centre of gravity

The bike is extremely stable and balance with a low centre of gravity. Partnered with the 160mm Fox 36 fork and the 65 degree head angle I was able to absolutely blast it downhill. It likes to hit the chunky stuff and soak up the bigger hits, which it does with ease. It filled me with confidence and definitely helped me hit rock gardens and bigger drops at speeds that I wouldn’t have had the balls to hit on a trail oriented bike.

We started to hit some more of the loose fast descents with some very tight, often off camber switch backs. Once I’d sussed out the wide line, late apex, I was able to get the hang of cornering the bike quite well, despite its slacker angles and longer wheelbase. The short chainstay helped lift the front end over speed sapping rocks and roots; the bike is easy to lift and manoeuvre. The 29er on the front rolled very well with the Exo+ based Maxxis Minion DFH providing good levels of grip.

YT Decoy rock drop
When you miss the takeoff the frame and kinematics soak up the impacts. After this I had no issues hitting stuff blind knowing what I’ve got in the tank
YT Decoy Di2 E7000 shifter
Neat integration but not as ergonomic as underbar shifters

The Di2 shifting was interesting. I love how rapid the shifting is. Lightning quick and precise. I’m fully converted and if I had the choice (and funds) I’d go for electronic shifting in a heart beat. Something I couldn’t quite get used to was the position of the right hand shifter, the E7000 controller. Rather than being in the conventional under the bar position, its placed on the bar. It’s higher than you’re used to. And a bit more awkward to hit quickly. When we grip our bars our thumbs are wrapped under the bar.

It’s something that I did get used to and I’ve no doubt if this is your regular bike that you’d get it dialled quite quickly. But it still not as ergonomic. You can change the button configuration to switch around which button upshifts / downshifts and also program in multiple shift depending how long you press the button for which is super cool.

Grip from the 2.8″ DHR2 was incredible and offered a good feel whilst climbing. I prefer to climb whilst sat, standing when it gets a bit steeper to weight the front of the bike more. The bike climbed well, I used a bit of boost mode to help keep momentum up then dialed it back down to trail on looser stuff.

YT Decoy rock garden
The bike is at home on the rocks. Well composed with excellent suspension kinematics soaking up the hits

The bike seems very well built, aside from one point below. No annoying rattles, vibrations or irritations. Just totally solid. The e-Thirteen carbon wheels paired with the carbon frame make for a super stiff chassis. I did have an issue with the rear axle coming loose, I suspect that a rock strike / foot strike hit the lever to help it. One to watch out for though as it wasn’t just me on the ride that had this issue.

On the second day we hit less of the chunky stuff and more singletrack and narrow, rooty trails. I thought that the bike may feel a bit more cumbersome here but I was surprised. It handled quick, steering felt very sharp. I really like the 800mm wide Renthal bars and 40mm stem combo. I was able to move the bike around, through narrow sections fairly well.

In terms of overall handling the YT Decoy offers an impressive wide range of abilities. Whilst it is certainly more gravity focussed than trail, that doesn’t stop it feeling well placed when riding forest sections. It translates to a lot of fun. It can hit steep descents and soak up rock gardens and natural drops with ease. I rode it down long rocky sections, with stepped drops that continued to the bottom of the trail. The suspension recovered well and not once did I feel that the bike lost composure.

The riding position is extremely balanced. It’s not overly cumbersome to handle. I’d have no issue using this as a regular trail bike with the thought that I have enough bike to take to almost anywhere.

The bike offers incredible value for money. It looks stunning too with components that you’d probably pick if you were building your own bike from scratch. I had a fantastic time riding it in the French mountains, it’s a seriously capable bike.

DISCLOSURE: YT paid for travel, food and accommodation for the test. A guide was also provided (Greg  from www.1001sentiers.fr – an awesome local guide) so we could explore the best trails in the area. A Massive thank you to YT Industries team for the opportunity to test it! I wish you all the best for the bike launch.

4.5
OUTSTANDING
Conclusion
A seriously good electric mountain bike that rides as well as it looks. A fantastic complete package, from the performance that the bike provides to the outstanding value that you get with YT. The company have developed an impressive bike that, as a first ebike in the range, looks like its had years of refinement and is already a few models and years in. This bike is an excellent demonstration of when design, kinematics and technology meet and form an outstanding end product.
Good Stuff
Excellent Performance
Outstanding Value
Looks stunning
Kinematics and balance
Not So Good
Shimano Motor power delivery not as refined as Brose and a bit noisier
Di2 shifting location difficult to adapt quickly to (only an issue on Pro Race model)
  1. Excellent right up rob as always this is definitely a contender for my next ebike but who knows what this year will bring for the ebike revolution keeping an open mind

  2. I sold my YT Capra to help fund the purchase of my Focus Jam2. I Loved the Capra, but I could no longer ride it where it needed to be ridden. What it needed was a motor! And now its got one, brilliant! But by the time I’ve done with the Jam2 , thee may be something even better!

  3. nice bike looking to get my first e bike was leading towards a levo but the yt looks great when is the available to buy??
  4. Ok so i’ve been in touch with YT.
    When asking the level of suspension on the pro level, they came back and said it was elite with a grip2 damper. On questioning this (as photo shows grip not grip2) they reconfirmed:

    Michael Lifka (YT Industries)
    Apr 2, 17:39 CEST
    Hello Richard,

    I’m definitely sure the fork has Grip2.
    The photos may differ because sometimes we may not have all original components in stock at the time the photos are taken.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
    Michael Lifka

  5. Having not owned an eBike, how would you go about cleaning the crap that will inevitably get between the frame and the motor?
  6. It depends on the model of bike, and how the motor is mounted. On some bikes its not an issue, on others you would usually drop or partially drop the motor, on others you can use a brush/airhose to get in there.
  7. Can anyone speak to the differences between a brose levo motor and the shimano e8000. It looks like the shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?
  8. shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?

    Not at all. It’s barely noticeable (to me).

    What is noticable is the noise and the more aggressive torque curve, especially in Boost at the initial pedal stroke and at the cut out speed. I wouldn’t worry so much about this though as Shimano could sort this via firmware updates. The noise, well, you’re stuck with that.

  9. Not at all. It’s barely noticeable (to me).

    What is noticable is the noise and the more aggressive torque curve, especially in Boost at the initial pedal stroke and at the cut out speed. I wouldn’t worry so much about this though as Shimano could sort this via firmware updates. The noise, well, you’re stuck with that.

    Having ridden both I’d agree with that, I still think the Levo has the slight edge in peak power or torque, and the Shimano is a bit on and off in boost mode.

    In trail mode the shimano is excellent though, but it is quite a bit noisier, my mates Levo is virtually silent.

  10. OK thanks for the replies. I’ve got a 18 levo and would like something more enduroish to handle the chunky downhills in Colorado.
  11. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

  12. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

    What setting do you have trail set to? Mine is on medium and boost is set high but I don’r often use boost and actually I don’t use trail much at all maybe I should :)

  13. Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

    I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

    I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

    For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

  14. Pretty sure it’s on the lowest setting, but I haven’t fiddled with the settings for ages.

    I actually find I ride to the trials in Eco, then use Trail on the trail if that makes sense.

    I like the extra power as you can put in half a crank to get a bit more speed coming in and out of features.

    For me the main difference between Eco and Trail, especially after the latest software update which seems to have made Eco a bit more responsive to cadence, is that when in Eco you have to ride the bike like you would a normal bike in terms of gear choice, I.e you have to be in the right gear and the motor won’t compensate if you are not, whereas in Trail you can power up and over things if you are not in the right gear, and can pretty much ride in the middle of the cassette

    Out of interest what is the latest software update on the app I think mine says it’s version 3.3.3 if that makes sense I am nervous about updating it or should I just update it whenever it says a new one is available?

  15. I rarely use boost on the shimano, normally eco & then trail when I’m exhausted, it’s more natural feeling & a few of my (non ebike)mates have tried the bike in eco & were surprised by the lack of support, even in trail it didn’t match there perceived perceptions of an ebike, only in boost did it deliver the power they thought an ebike would so I totally agree with R120 (y)
  16. For me boost mode on the Shimano may as well not be on the option list for the amount of time I use it. Maybe to shuttle up a fire road at an easy canter, but even for the most technical of climbs I wouldn’t use it. It’s meant/designed to be used for when you want to put minimum effort in, not technical riding.

    The Shimano motor is all about trail mode, which like the Bosch EMTB mode is reactive, and to my mind the most natural feeling pedalling experience of all the motors I have tried.

    I haven’t spent much time on the new Brose Mag S, but to me the area the Brose Specialized variant shines is in its tune ability.

    I would summarise by saying the Shimano is a motor you let work out the power for you, whereas the Brose is one you set up how the power is delivered.

    I come from a moto background so I put my levo in turbo full time. Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

  17. Afraid ic ant answer that as haven’t really put any time in on boost mode on a Brose. I like the motor to be only giving me just enough assistance, I dont like riding when it feels artificial.
  18. The brose 1.3 motor is similar to the shimano in boost/turbo but maybe not quite so on and off.
  19. Is the shimano boost mode comparable to the levo or more on/off?

    It’s definitely more on/off than Turbo on the Levo. The Brose is very smooth in delivery, even in Turbo. Shimano also has a more aggressive overrun. It’s not necessarily bad, its just different.

  20. If you ride mainly in boost, then the tunability of the Brose will be an advantage, as I believe aside from the power you assign to the mode, you can tune the delay in the motor kicking in – the Shimano has a slight delay before the motor kicks in, in all modes, but this is most noticeable in boost.
  21. The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

    If you wait it out the next year’s YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

  22. Can anyone speak to the differences between a brose levo motor and the shimano e8000. It looks like the shimano motor has less torque. Is it a big enough difference to be a deal breaker?

    Shimano motor is noisy as. Friends on a normal bike said they didn’t want to ride with me as it was so noisy. The brose they didn’t notice. I can’t take the Shimano motor seriously. It’s so noisy it detracts from riding the bike and terrain. It’s one whiny bitch.

  23. Ok so i’ve been in touch with YT.
    When asking the level of suspension on the pro level, they came back and said it was elite with a grip2 damper. On questioning this (as photo shows grip not grip2) they reconfirmed:

    Michael Lifka (YT Industries)
    Apr 2, 17:39 CEST
    Hello Richard,

    I’m definitely sure the fork has Grip2.
    The photos may differ because sometimes we may not have all original components in stock at the time the photos are taken.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement
    Michael Lifka

    I wrote YT USA last night. I got a very different answer.

    I then read your post so I called Fox for clarification. The rep said they don’t have an E specific Performance Elite, only a Performance model with a GRIP and a Factory with a GRIP2. I suggested they look at the product photos on YTs website showing an specific performance elite and the rep said it must be an OEM only and can’t tell me any specific about it without a product number.

  24. The E8000 seems to be a little long the tooth. They must have an updated model coming out any day I would think?

    If you wait it out the next year’s YT should have 700w battery and updated shimano motor (assuming there is one on the horizon)

    Shimano doesn’t do anything fast.

  25. The fact the E8000 offers firmware updates and YT’s battery has an upgrade path is a really attractive proposition. You don’t need any more power unless you weight a ton.

    Seems like some people have different experiences with the E8000 depending on the tune and firmware version. The latest reviews suggest that it’s the most progressive motor available in trail mode, but still a little on/off in boost.

    I wonder if future Shimano motors will have the same form factor so you could retrofit into bikes with older motors? That would be a pretty compelling approach, and a sure way of selling more hardware for them.

  26. Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth. Id agree that peak power feels slightly stronger on brose.

    Shimano sounds like a really loud tamyia radio controlled car compared to the silent (v1.3) brose motor

  27. I have nothing to compare the Shimano to as it’s my first ebike but to me it isn’t noisy yes there is a slight noise but nothing more than that and it has more than enough power which I think is delivered really well, but as I said I am new to this world so what do I know, but I really like it :)
  28. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

  29. Back on the Decoy specifically if I was buying I think I’d go for the base model. Would you like to know why? No? Well too bad!

    E13 parts – don’t like them, would rather have good old mehanical Shimano. Been really impressed with the DT Swiss M1900 wheels on my Vitus (other than the undersized font hub bearings wearing quickly) so would rather have them. Also can’t see the point of Di2 on an MTB (although have used it on the road and love it), just seems like more expensive stuff to go wrong for little benefit

    Suspension – with the lower price I’d put a 2019 170mm air shaft in the Yari and might change the damper later. The rear shock is a bit of a let down but I believe the suspension curve is pretty progressive so I’d sell the Monarch new and put on a coil, can often pick up the Super Deluxe coils at a good price

    Swingarm – no issue with the carbon main frame and has a lot of advantages in terms of shape manipulation but carbon swing arms on a mountain bike just seem really vulnerable to wear and damage. Maybe irrational?

    If I was to do it I’d change the bars, stem and saddle from the Vitus, also my XT cranks, mech and shifter, because XT. Probably the E8000 display too as I like to see the mode from the colour at a glance. Would take a view on the swapping the Reverb and Guide RE brakes over

    However, I’m not in a position to change so with an eye to the future;

    Motor – I’m really happy with my E-Sommet so would rather wait for the next gen Shimano unit, whether that’s a year or two away. I would like mine to be quieter!

    Battery – would rather wait for the bigger unit (weight dependent). Might not be necessary if the real world performance of the 540 lives up to the promise showed in the release reviews?

    That’s my musings on it anyway

  30. One of the main things about the Shimano motor is that they have designed it to be upgraded over time by the user via software updates – how the E8000 behaves now vs the original software is very different.

    For me I went with it because I liked the way it rode the best ( caveated by the fact the Brose Mag wasn’t around at that time), and I think the user interface options are the best out there in terms of controllers and displays, and I really like the fact pretty much all the steps components are interchangeable, making it easy to get a set up you like – no display and no handlebar remote – you can go down that route, or you can go the other way and have a big display and a multifunction handlebar remote.

    I also think the motor itself is the most reliable on the market, and for me Shimano remain the kings of quality when it come to components generally.

    I am very tempted by the YT, but I also think we are going to be several significant bike launches over the next year, and of course we are expecting a new Bosch motor to be launched soon too.

    We are also going to be seeing bikes coming out with the new Panasonic, Polini, and Continental motors, all of which are lite and powerful.

  31. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

    AFAIC motors need noise. (even automatic leccy cars)

    Try riding moto trials with headphones on and music completely drowning out the revs.
    hearing the revs aids control. not hearing them hinders it.
    same thing (only subtler) with an Eeb
    I want to hear those revs. Both when descending or riding tecchnical terrain in a high assistance mode and for indication of when to ensure a light gear change

  32. That’s an interesting point Gary. I can’t drive a car with headphones on either for that reason.
  33. Thta is actually a very interesting point Gary, hadn’t really thought about it before but doing so now realise its omehting I do out riding
  34. I never said it was a bad thing, or a good one for that matter, but Bosch have long been slated for having the noisiest motors and that no longer seems to be the case. I don’t care if the motor I’m using is making a racket or not, however lots of other users do.
  35. Quite possibly.

    I should add I do listen out for mine making horrible noises as a warning of impending bearing failure.

  36. Shimano motor is more stop/start jerky when you start/stop peddling too. Feels like an on/off switch where as the kenevo feels more smooth.

    Thought the exact opposite the last time i rode a kenevo
    Not being able to see the mode probably didn’t help

    Are you sure the shimano you’re talking about wasn’t running older firmware?
    it’s very smooth at transitioning now. especially around the speed cut off

  37. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

  38. I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

    The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch! :oops:

    There did seem to be a thing that when both shimano motors were next to each other that there was a certain resonance happening making them even louder.

    I do like the sound of the shimano, Its my favourite motor. (though Jetsetdeimos new levo felt really nice)

  39. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

    I believe the Shimano battery isn’t using tesla cells like YT and Specialized.

  40. I don’t think the YT and Specialized (only 700) are literally running Tesla cells but I’m willing to be corrected.
  41. I don’t think Tesla actually make their own cells, I thought they were in partnership with Panasonic… :unsure:
  42. Is this a Levo killer? But looking amazing

    It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I’d for sure return it if I didn’t get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

  43. One of the advantages of Shimano are their scale and compatibility between ranges. Theoretically they could come up with a DU-E9000 motor (90nm or lighter etc) and a new BT-E9020 (based on higher density cells) and it slot into an older bike as an upgrade.

    There’s also the over the air software updates as others have mentioned too.

  44. So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.
  45. So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.

    Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

  46. Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

    I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

    I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

  47. I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

    I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

    Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

  48. One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

    My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

    Follow up to my earlier post with a little more math that might help explain?

    Stock Shimano battery is a 10s4p which is 10 in series and 4 parallel, 40 18650 cells total, which gives you a 36v (sic) system that with a 3500mAh cell will yield a 504wh battery: 36 x 3.5 = 126 (s) x 4 (p) = 504. If you used the highest known 18650 3900mAh cell you would have a 560wh battery in the stock form. So the possibility here is to in the future rebuild stock batteries with higher mAh cells and gain wh’s in the process. I foresee lots of that in the future as warranties go by the wayside and batteries lose their oomph after lots of charge cycles. In fact it would be advantageous to rebuild a battery with fresh cells over buy a NOS one off the shelf that who knows how long it has been on….

    The YT battery, and I am just doing some supposition here as I am not privy to the exact kind of cells it uses and although they may be Tesla "type" as they are leaders in 2170 technology they aren’t Tesla/Panasonics as they can hardly produce enough for their own use. Samsung, LG, Sony, and all the others are in on the new 2170 program but for sure whatever they are using, in order for it to be a 540wh battery, they are rating at 5000mAh or 1500mAh more than the 18650 top dog.

    OK, back to the math.

    So the YT battery is a 10s3p 30 cells total @ 36 x 5 = 180 (s) x 3 (p) = 540. Their upcoming 700wh battery will just add another 10 cells to make it a 10s4p.

    As I said in my last post the effect of having the extra 1500mAh per cell is two fold. It allows for a higher discharge rate due to the higher Amp rating so it will put out more power upon demand or longer run time if equal to the demand on a lesser mAh battery. That is a pretty simplified version…..

    Also a higher Amp battery will allow for higher charge rates and that is why Haibike is advertising 10A charge rate for the Flyon although you wouldn’t want to do that on a regular basis as it would degrade the battery exponentially over a more standard 4A charge. However once in awhile topping off fast over lunch isn’t a bad prospect.

    So that is why the YT battery is getting better range. A) because it has 40wh more capacity and B) because of it’s higher Amp rating and discharge of power more efficiently.

    I keep coming back to the looks of the YT and I do agree that they pretty much nailed it first try. It’s a handsome bike with all the right features in the right order. Although some might find fault with the type of features and the order they are in luckily there are ways to tweak them to the end users content.

  49. Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

    From YT Customer Services yesterday….for my order:

    Zendesk.jpg

    Apr 4, 08:15 CEST
    Hello Phillip,

    these are the specs of the fork:

    2019, 36, A, FLOAT, 29in, P-SE E-Bike+, 160, Grip 2, HSC, SC, HSR, LSR, Matte Blk, PMS-642_Gloss/PMS-2195_Gloss Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE, +2VS

    I hope this is helpful to you.
    Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement

  50. I hope YT are correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?
  51. It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I’d for sure return it if I didn’t get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

    But Kenovo has still more travel, so in my opinion it’s more closed to Levo.

  52. I hope YTis correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?

    Nick
    It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I’ve been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

    It’s in writing……so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

  53. Nick
    It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I’ve been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

    It’s in writing……so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

    Just been looking at some of my footage. This is the Pro and it looks like the Grip 2…

    View attachment 12646

  54. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob
  55. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob

    Good times indeed! The Pro seems like the best bang for buck, great suspension on that bike…

  56. I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.
  57. You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times – cheers Rob

    YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

  58. YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

    Lol Nick, let’s hope the poor bastard isn’t on the forum and let’s hope Rob’s photos are the facts we want.

    I’ll look forward to seeing some pics from customer bikes and I’ll post a pic up when mine arrives. Or the dispute resolution that I get in to 🙄

  59. I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.

    Quite a few Spesh batteries now out of warranty. Although Spesh are exceptionally nice to customers with warranty. I imagine all the worry some future e-bike owners have about batteries will all become a minor issue once the independent guys start rebuilding batteries. Be good to hear from one or two of them about what they can do, especially against a £1000 price tag for the current 700wh Spesh battery.

  60. I really like the YT decoy, it’s an amazing bike with top components!
    But i don’t like carbon… so nothing for me, i stick with my lovely Kenevo. It survived a big jumping crash two weeks ago without any harm (my ribs, arm and hand not so much), whereas with a carbon bike i wouldn’t feel save anymore.

    Carbon on gravity-oriented bikes? I don’t know… for the Pro’s or if you replace your bike every 1-2 years that’s fine… but if you like to ride your bike for longer… nah. But i know, it’s controversial ;)

  61. sort of agree with you @Donnie797
    but…
    the areas that see the most rock strikes are under the downtube, BB area and stays
    on the BASE Decoy the downtube is actually the armoured battery casing. The BB area is the bolt on E8000 motor WITH bashguard and the stays are Alu.
    Kind of a hint as to which model interests me most ,)

    Yes top tubes and the side of the downtube (and even the seat tube can take a battering in a crash too. I’m well aware of this. As are YT hence the knockblock headset – Which I really wouldn’t want and unless the fork crown hits the downtube.
    No bike of mine has levers in a position that can hit my top tube and I like to pull the odd X-up.
    Not a deal breakier if it needs the knockblock to stop the crown contacting the battery, though
    if not hopefully it can be replaced with a standard headset.

    Were the front triangle alu I reckon the Decoy frame would be far too heavy for me to even consider.

    My Capra is ridden exactly the same as my E-sommet and DH bikes and has held up well. full carbn front end and carbon seat stays. Alu chainstay and linkage.

    It’d be crazy not to admit Carbon is less durable and that when it fails it does so in a completely different manner to alu but I can (just about) live with those facts. One of the worst things for me about Carbon is how easily it rubs away if scuffed. I’ve seen a mate’s chainstay wear away completely and fail because of heel rub on a Carbon XC bike. this also means you need to be extra protective when transporting Carbon framed bikes and a PITA compared to Alu.
    I recently made cardboard/garffer pedal booties to put on mine and my mates bikes pedals as a protective measure so as not to get pedal pin gouges on our carbon frames when transporting them all together in a mate’s van.
    He didn’t GAF. but I do.

    @Rob Hancill do you know if the fork crown (f wheel at 90deg) would clear the downtube/battery on the models you saw/rode/tested?

  62. Love the way u put/out it, not easy to ballance the Commercial incitatements with true to experience eventual criticals. Big shout out to the aproach as an IRL average rider, largest chunk of the market is! Kept in mind, many off us out there are actually buying on rev/test, results, it means the world to many potential customers, stay true and keep that balance – Respect! Sorry for the abuse of the English language, im Swedsh!
  63. @Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user –>FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software
  64. @Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user –>FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software

    No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

    They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

  65. No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

    They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

    I’m running the latest Shimano software on my E800 (well last updated on Monday) & yes you can customise it the same way as the last 2 updates, eco is always eco but you can mess with trail & boost to give you more or less power in each. I just leave it in explorer as I think it is optimised for battery life.
    FWIW I read your original article as you can customise the motor on the YT the same way you can on any other Shimano E800.

    Cheers.

  66. As far as I am aware this functionality (further tenability beyond what has been available for the last 8 months or so) isn’t out yet on the app, but haven’t checked for any update in a while. I have heard rumours that something is in the works though
  67. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.
  68. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I’ve come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn’t effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

  69. That wouldnt even be enough time for shipping to/from Germany from here in New Zealand so dont see much up take down this way
  70. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    Well, do not count on it. I heard 3 weeks every time to. Took 5 weeks to fix shock (2 times). Took 5 weeks to fix crank (2 times). Took more than 10 weeks to change frame that was in stock. Both shock and crank issues were well known problems with those parts.

    If I could have handled the warranty cases the same as with another mail order brand the shock and crank issue would probably be handled in about a week. But with YT everything has to go back to them and then to to manufacturers service.

  71. 3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I’ve come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn’t effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

    Fair comment, given what it appears your job is? But surely you have more than one bike? if your profession is using a bike? Cost control is a key part of running a business, your bike might be twice as expensive as a similar bike that does exactly the same job? Plus business resilience, what if your LBS just didn’t have the grumpetsproggle pin that the motor needed and it was a 3 week back order part (noisy Brose motor wasn’t fixed for weeks was it?).

    For most Northerners, it would take a full day for us to drive to a Spesh dealer of the quality that [email protected] Cycles is. That’s a full day round trip, booked in advance, time off work, £60-100 of fuel and food and it’s not going to happen the day after the bike eats itself!

    Let’s be fair here, the direct sales proposition is seriously compelling on value and the current German bikes aren’t lagging on design, quality or performance (does anyone not like the Decoy?). But the personal touch when your bike has got some issues will be different for us direct sales customers to those of you having a (genuinely local) LBS.

    The direct sales option is the only way to get our arses on to a Decoy or Spectral/Neuron. I imagine if Spesh made the Levo/Kenevo direct via Switzerland we’d still buy them, because they are awesome!

    What the UK could really benefit from is more independents who invest in a brand, perhaps have courtesy bikes (revenue opportunity) and get a daily DHL pick up/drop off to Germany along with some spares and tech know-how.

    I’m going to suggest someone asks Chris if he’s got perhaps £250k to invest in that little idea….🤪

    What differentiates the Spesh retail model is that you CANNOT send your broken bits directly back to the factory for a factory-fix. Given how we all love a ‘Factory’ Fox Fork…..isn’t that just the best thing about having a YT or Canyon? Everything on them is a factory spec component.

    I’m a total convert, but I do have a few bikes to jump on should one be broken, wearing the wrong tyres or needing some fettling. So I’m massively biased and their target customer. Zero discounts available for us as well, their business model is that tight.

  72. The warranty thing does bother me, but I expect I’ll hang onto my Trek for a while if I do buy a Decoy. (Currently organising demo days on the Intense Tazer and Rocky Mountain Powerplay)
  73. and who repairs the bike after two years? I ordered a Decoy base and I am more worried if someone fixes my motor after warranty

    eia, it might not need fixing! It might work perfectly. But it will wear out. I’m going to suggest you pay a Shimano approved LBS to fix your worn out motor after the warranty has expired. The software is Shimano’s so it will be fine. It won’t be free if you wear anything out, even in warranty. The battery? Well that’s bound to be fixable by the independent guys who aren’t shy of making things work better and more powerful than original spec.
    Get stuck in! Otherwise you’ll be missing all the fun.

  74. So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there’s a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

    The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

    I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

  75. So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there’s a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

    The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

    I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

    R120

    I’ve got one of those bikes that has less problems and has never let me down. It’s just a traditional old Capra. It’s very often me that is broken (or at work) on those perfect blue days 😋

    On one thing we all agree…..adding electrical bits to anything makes them more fun and certain to fail!

    Happily, I’m a ‘cup half full’ bloke (I think that comes with having more than one bike). And I can honestly say, every bike I have needs something fettling, swapping or hitting with a hammer. But they do get some use.

  76. I have two Vitus’s with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back – however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

    For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB’s, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

    If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

    I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

  77. I have two Vitus’s with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back – however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

    For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB’s, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

    If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

    I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

    Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components – they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

    Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery….? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

  78. I’m a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

    The YT looks like a good deal for me. Has the components I want without having to swap stuff right away. Also was the only bike on my wanted list that I could actually order…everything else not available to even order; probably just the way it worked out.

  79. Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components – they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

    Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery….? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

    But component companies do want you to upgrade the parts – one of the advantages of having an off the shelf system like the Shimano (you will notice all bikes using the external battery from Shimano all have to use the stock battery mounting system) is that they make stuff retro compatible, and I would have though it is a massive market to bring out a battery of higher capacity that works with the existing mounts. They have shown to date that with their EBike systems, new components tend to work with he older systems

  80. I’m a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

    You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
    😱

  81. You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
    😱

    Yes, about $1K US. Compared to the price of Sworks I was trying to buy; that would let me buy 5 spare motors :) actually 6 since I have to pay local tax with the Spec dealer.

  82. If you really have a few grand to splash around willy nilly you’d be better off buying a complete E8000 driven hardtail to compliment the Decoy and use as a spares horse..
    Had thought about this myself having seen plenty under £2k. It would have given me a nice local XC/commuting bike, spare bike for friends and parts wise spare pretty much "everything" bar suspension components, Not to mention an extra battery for longer rides. If the motor in my FS Emtb needed warranty swapping over a motor is less than an hours work. (so long as cable routing isn’t a ballache)

    I was really tempted to do this when CRC reduced the E-Sentier last year. I think it meant the VR would have been down to something crazy like £1600 with discount. But I realised I just wouldn’t have ridden it. (I just prefer my regular hardtails, and love riding my regular roadbike)

  83. This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

    I get it that YT have probably produced a great bike, (personally I love most of what YT have done in the last few years), but it is a different bike to the S Works Levo, so to say it is an equivalent is somewhat wide of the mark!
    Levo has different geometry, targeting a different type of terrain.
    Levo (SWorks) has a bigger battery and (all Levo’s) have a more powerful motor system.
    Levo has a different route to market (some prefer one, others prefer the other).
    Levo exists in the market today, not sure the Decoy has been delivered to single customer yet.

    Sure they both have high end components on them, but a bike is a system, and different to just the sum of its OEM parts. You can prefer one to the other, but the same they are not.

  84. Great post – for me the single most important thing when looking at EMTB’s once you have nailed down your choice to a couple of models that fit you and suit your riding, is the integrating of the motor and battery systems – there is a big difference between riding a model that is basically a normal bike adapted to be an EMTB and one designed from the ground up as one
  85. With the Levo being seen as the benchmark eMTB it is inevitable that comparisons will be made, but what do you use as the marker? Price or Spec? Either way the YT is the winner on paper so you need to dig deeper as @Rob Hancill has done and decide what you want from a bike. Trail or Enduro type riding, these bikes will do both but each is biased to a different part of the spectrum. One thing is for sure; neither is likely to disappoint.
  86. By pretty much everyone new to eBikes. The Spesh marketing behemoth has done it’s job well. How many threads get started "So I’m thinking of getting a Levo"?
  87. Someone was asking about frame bump stops from forks hitting the frame. Here’s the pic.
  88. Hmm… fair enough really @Doomanic
    It’s a great bike with an even greater marketing strategy behind it.
    Just not even on my radar as far as any sort of benchmark is concerned.

    As for what I use as my marker. it’s always been a combination of geometry (incl sizing and wheelsize), travel and suspension design no matter whether an mtb or an emtb.

    I think the fact Spesh have been making good emtbs for so long and were prepared to address a lot of the main gripes of Emtbs in general (weight and battery range being the main two) has gone a long way to making the current Levo seem like the benchmark.
    in reality though. it’s not actually all that light is it? (do consider it’s a trail bike rather than an enduro bike here). The larger range I presume also means a larger heavier battery?
    The motor is possibly quieter and smoother than many others. But TBH I love the Shimano in current firmware configuration.
    What else does the Levo do though?
    Oh.. .yeah… it’s got that app that’ll make you a coffee to be ready at the end of your ride hasn’t it?

    ;)

    I think most emtb manufacturers are missing a huge trick not having a great dealer network prepared to bend over backwards to help the customer. This seems to be the main worry with almost all noobs.

  89. Someone was asking about frame bump stops from forks hitting the frame. Here’s the pic.

    View attachment 12726

    Thanks Rob.

    I was asking if the fork top caps/crown actually conracted the downtube. i guess if they’ve fitted a physical bump stop AND a knockblock headset there must be some contact.

    If so this makes me a little sad.

  90. Thanks Rob.

    I was asking if the fork top caps/crown actually conracted the downtube. i guess if they’ve fitted a physical bump stop AND a knockblock headset there must be some contact.

    If so this makes me a little sad.

    Gary

    We shall see when the bikes arrive. My take on bump stops on ebikes is two-fold. Firstly they stop a full handlebar spin from occurring when steering lock is hard over AND power applied. Easily done, especially in tech riding and with the torque pushing the front end.

    Secondly, they might well stop top caps/forks from striking the fat battery engorged down-tube.

    What’s your sadness? Is it because you can’t spin the bars 360 when you get max air off a jump? 😉

  91. They have one purpose, on any bike they are fitted to, and that is to stop the fork crown hitting the downtube on bikes where the design means this might be an issue – I have never felt on the Shimano motor that the torque might effect the steering in any way!
  92. @Jedipip Yeah mate. just X-Ups and whips.
    That and well… I kinda have issues with rules and authority ;)

    Whips aint a biggie.. but if you whip a dual crown fork hard enough you can use the impact of the bump stop against the frame to whip it out and straighten the bike up. It’s not something I like to do but have done. I probably won’t do it but if you were to I’m not sure how either the bumpstops or the headset are going to like it.

    a full handle bar spin has never been a problem on any bike of mine. they all have long enough cables for a full X-up and it’s once in an extremely blue moon when you have ste sort of crash that takes your front wheel anywhaere near past 180deg.

    I’ve no idea what the scenario you’re describing under power is. for one thing your leg is going to be in the way of the bars going too far.

  93. Bit tarty I know but there was no Lyrik option available[emoji1]

    My Capra is sporting the gold bits 😝
    I am not a convert to carbon rims or Di2. My aluminium rims have been battered from local trails to the Alps and Snowdon and I just read horror stories about rims made of plastic and carbon fibre. I need convincing they’d hold up to some meaty rock strikes…..
    Because of one thing I am certain, this bike is going to be hitting everything!

  94. I dunno, need all the enhancements I can get, those curbs down Asda can be a real challenge….
  95. So the E-Sommet is going back to Wiggle under the 30 days test ride.
    The Pro model has been ordered.

    My justification for not spending another £1k is carbon wheels not so important on a 50lb bike, factory dropper would have be sold regardless as I’ll put a 185mm Revive on it, kashima coating on forks is mainly cosmetic, not interested in Di2.

    Then spend the £1k saved on a EXT Storia LOK V3 which is easily the best shock (both coil and aircan) I have ever ridden.

  96. It’s really all just down to my own personal preference Dom.
    Coming from DJ and old skool DH background I’m more of a #264LYF type of rider. Sort of the opposite of a lot of new skool enduro/trail rider with their super long super stable (but less nimble) bikes and riding styles
    I’m 5’11" so not exactly tall and just don’t get on with 29er mtbs at all. I can ride them (possibly actually faster in many situations) but I just can’t stand the lean in the higher axle and larger diameter wheels gives when turning/changing direction. It’s far more of an enjoyment preference than anything to do with the larger wheels performance in covering ground fast for me.
    I’d also far rather have a mismatch in suspension travel (in favour of more up front) over less fork travel and a larger diameter front wheel. this also allows more scope for finetuning of ride height via suspension settings.

    We don’t ride "Moto" bikes (proper engine ones). they’d actually be worse for the sort of riding I tend to do and aren’t designed to. I’ve always run a grippier front tyre up front. (since the early days of BMX) which means either a softer compound, more aggressive tread, or larger volume (or a combination of the 3) front tyre. The 29 front, 27.5+ rear idea goes against this thinking some what.

    plus, as I said earlier in the thread. I can lower and slacken the bike by doing this gaining stability without sacrificing nimbleness

    I hope this helps you understand slightly better where I’m coming from

    Before anyone brings up Maes (#no_spoilers ;)). He wasn’t using a rear plus tyre
    He is making the most out of 27.5’s smaller diameter for pretty much the same reasons I love 26" in the rear :eek: o_O

    :unsure:

    Hi, you are 5’11” and ordered YT decoy size M? Just asking, because I am 5’10” and also would chose M size according to measurements (although YT suggests L…)
    I also read 2 different tests, both test riders were 5’10” and prefered L size…
    What is your opinion on YT decoy sizing?
    Thanks

  97. My opinion on sizing is old skool (and from an exDHer/DJer slant) so my choice will only be relevant if you’re a similar type of rider to me.

    I can’t stand modern overly long reach bikes.
    Add 15lb of motor and battery to a Loooong modern bike and they become a chore to raise the front end (manual), hop and get playful on.
    That extra weight all central and down low makes the Ebike more stable than any non-Ebike anyway.

    If you’re not a playful rider and want an ultimate plow bike that chunders through everything and gives you massive confidence at high speed go Large. If you prefer picking lines, popping around and playing in the air go Med… I’ve no qualms about going flat out on shorter bikes (been doing it 25 years+)
    Long bikes still jump well… they just feel and react quite differently in the air and popping (especially on steep or lippy kicks)

    Medium sizing on the Decoy is almost exactly the same as my small (yes SMALL!) EsommetVR and I definitely don’t want anything longer.
    Neither bike is short. They’re just not long by modern fashionable sizing standards.

    [edit] Hold on. didn’t I already say most of this in the bit you quoted?

    What are you asking exactly?

  98. My opinion on sizing is old skool (and from an exDHer/DJer slant) so my choice will only be relevant if you’re a similar type of rider to me.

    I can’t stand modern overly long reach bikes.
    Add 15lb of motor and battery to a Loooong modern bike and they become a chore to raise the front end (manual), hop and get playful on.
    That extra weight all central and down low makes the Ebike more stable than any non-Ebike anyway.

    If you’re not a playful rider and want an ultimate plow bike that chunders through everything and gives you massive confidence at high speed go Large. If you prefer picking lines, popping around and playing in the air go Med… I’ve no qualms about going flat out on shorter bikes (been doing it 25 years+)
    Long bikes still jump well… they just feel and react quite differently in the air and popping (especially on steep or lippy kicks)

    Medium sizing on the Decoy is almost exactly the same as my small (yes SMALL!) EsommetVR and I definitely don’t want anything longer.
    Neither bike is short. They’re just not long by modern fashionable sizing standards.

    [edit] Hold on. didn’t I already say most of this in the bit you quoted?

    What are you asking exactly?

    Thanks for the answer, that is what I needed and hoped for☺
    I just sometimes feel weird when looking at those suggestions about sizing when my body, experience and feel telling me something different😁

  99. Rob, any idea if also base model would/could be equipped with 700Wh battery once its released?

    It could be but honestly no idea if they plan to. I’d think that they’d leave the base model at that £4199 price and spec the pro / pro race with the higher battery (and charge a bit more).

  100. They should just offer each spec variant with two battery options. I can see why brands sold in bricks and mortar LBS’ would probably never want to do that, but for a direct sales brand like YT it’s no different from any other option they offer (I’m sure they build up the bikes after they’ve been ordered in most cases).
  101. It could be but honestly no idea if they plan to. I’d think that they’d leave the base model at that £4199 price and spec the pro / pro race with the higher battery (and charge a bit more).

    It’s all new ground being covered off here. Firstly the 540wh Decoy battery seems to have a little more power than current standard batteries (cell design and spec, not just the extra cells). But here we have yet more exciting innovation in that new buyers of the bikes will get a discount upgrade option for the larger battery when they are ready; how will that work? a return-to-base battery option or keep it as a spare and have a huge 1240wh capability on a day out?
    e-biking is genuinely more exciting to be involved in than traditional MTB’s where i’ve seen nothing truly new in the last 4 years or so.

    It’s going to be fun watching what The competitors do and how Canyon in particular react to YT.

    Surely Prices will plummet for the current crop of £4-5K aluminium e-bikes?

  102. By the sound of the huge rock hitting my lower frame yesterday, i am glad i was on a aluminium frame (with a frame protector made in carbon, that got deep battle scars).
    Carbon sure is lightweight, but thats pretty much all it got against alu.

    I dont like all brands going carbon, even Merida is going there now according to rumors.

  103. By the sound of the huge rock hitting my lower frame yesterday, i am glad i was on a aluminium frame (with a frame protector made in carbon, that got deep battle scars).
    Carbon sure is lightweight, but thats pretty much all it got against alu.

    I dont like all brands going carbon, even Merida is going there now according to rumors.

    Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

  104. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

    My last Rocky Mountain Instinct BC was a carbon frame, so i`ve had it and i know they are strong as.. But only while undamaged.
    Think this way, if you crash and youre frame hits a rock and gets a good scar/damage point (the alu would probably get a dent), which would you prefer to keep riding ?
    We all know carbon get very much weaker when scratched/bruized.

    As much as i love carbon as a material, i really dont see any benefits other than weight on a mtb/emtb, especially one i`m going to go crash down rocky trails every now and then.

    But i see that it`s almost impossible not to go carbon again on my next bike when due, as all brands goes that direction on the premium bikes.

    And it might be the decoy one day, as it really looks great!

  105. My last Rocky Mountain Instinct BC was a carbon frame, so i`ve had it and i know they are strong as.. But only while undamaged.
    Think this way, if you crash and youre frame hits a rock and gets a good scar/damage point (the alu would probably get a dent), which would you prefer to keep riding ?
    We all know carbon get very much weaker when scratched/bruized.

    As much as i love carbon as a material, i really dont see any benefits other than weight on a mtb/emtb, especially one i`m going to go crash down rocky trails every now and then.

    But i see that it`s almost impossible not to go carbon again on my next bike when due, as all brands goes that direction on the premium bikes.

    And it might be the decoy one day, as it really looks great!

    Weight is a fairly important factor. I just don’t see any increase in frame damage (between friends, forums and publications) since the big move to carbon so I don’t really see it as a problem.

    I’ve been in A&E a few times in the past few years (fractured vertebrae and internal bleeding) and my carbon bike has come off a lot better than me :LOL:

    Maybe there will come point where I do dent/damage a carbon frame, it’s just I don’t hear about it happening very much.

  106. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff

    Thing is. Pretty much no one who races DH or enduro seriously keeps a frame for more than one season.
    I have carbon frames too but am under no illusion it’s anywhere near as durable as Alu. Strong. Yes. Durable. no.
    eg. I’ve seen a riding friends carbon chainstay wear through in one winter from heel rub.
    The other thing about Carbon is because of the high price most carbon frames/bikes bought at full RRP are bought by people who treat them with kid gloves. fully protective taping them, fitting downtube guards etc, (ironically often negating the weight saving) and being very careful with them.
    One bonus of Carbon over alu is it’s ability to be repaired even after catrastrophic tube failure. whether it is cost effective is another matter entirely though.

  107. Thing is. Pretty much no one who races DH or enduro seriously keeps a frame for more than one season.
    I have carbon frames too but am under no illusion it’s anywhere near as durable as Alu.

    There are far more amateurs than pros who keep their frames for as long as possible. I know plenty of guys who race off a shoe string budget.

  108. There are far more amateurs than pros who keep their frames for as long as possible. I know plenty of guys who race off a shoe string budget.

    Yeah. I said racing DH or Enduro seriously.

    If you want to race seriously and want to keep your frame for as long as possible Carbon might not be the best choice.

  109. This wait is killing me! This has been the longest two weeks of my life. Not sure how I’ll make it to 6/6. I keep searching for decoy posts on google and ig, but it seems they’ve only been seen/ridden at the press camp.
  110. This wait is killing me! This has been the longest two weeks of my life. Not sure how I’ll make it to 6/6. I keep searching for decoy posts on google and ig, but it seems they’ve only been seen/ridden at the press camp.

    …and 6/6 is when the wait really begins 😂

    I’m not a YT novice. One of two things will happen. It’ll arrive when you aren’t expecting it to be so quick, or you’ll get the email saying it’s on it’s way…..and it’ll arrive when you don’t expect it to 🤣

  111. Carbon is plenty tough enough, that’s why most enduro and downhill bikes are made of the stuff, and most of the top end components. My carbon trail bike has suffered 3 years of abuse from bike parks to downhill and it’s still in great shape. I would hazard a guess that since the mass introduction of carbon, frame failures have not increased – it’s certainly not a problem. The YT has bash plates and protection in all the right places, and they are definitely not made out of carbon!

    I still think Alu and Steel bikes are cool and definitely have there place, look at all the boutique brands popping up releasing some pretty innovative and well balanced bikes using those materials.

    It depends on personal experience – the only frame I have broken was a carbon Cannondale Rush and the seat post exploded, so this puts me off Carbon frames since 2009…also all the rock flying up and hitting the frame is a big risk on carbon.

  112. It depends on personal experience – the only frame I have broken was a carbon Cannondale Rush and the seat post exploded, so this puts me off Carbon frames since 2009…also all the rock flying up and hitting the frame is a big risk on carbon.

    Fair enough, I have flown through places like antur stiniog and north wales with big chunks of rock destroying my shins and forks but my frame is fine.

    It does seem that since 2015 there have been big improvements in carbon durability.

  113. I ordered the base model just after rob dropped his video! ETA 5/15. I went with the base cause I have an Avalanche damper for the yari and a bunch of carbon component to swap in. I was waiting for an EP deal on the new levo or the Flyon, but honestly I like the looks and package of this bike way more. I’m stoked!

    Did YT charge your credit card at the time of order?

  114. That is not iaw European law, they are not allowed to charge your CC before the stuff you buy are ready for immediate delivery.

    Karsten

    Karsten

    Are you sure it EU Law? It might be credit card rules, but not actually a law. Obviously in the UK we don’t give a damn about EU law 🤪 but I’d like to know which law it is if it’s out there.

    And if you are aggrieved because you believe you shouldn’t have been charged then you raise it with your credit card company and they may well reimburse you and charge back the amount…..

    Meaning no Decoy.

    You pays your money. You take your chances. It was clear in the purchase contract that the delivery would be some months after the initial order/purchase.

  115. I ordered the base model just after rob dropped his video! ETA 5/15. I went with the base cause I have an Avalanche damper for the yari and a bunch of carbon component to swap in. I was waiting for an EP deal on the new levo or the Flyon, but honestly I like the looks and package of this bike way more. I’m stoked!

    Nick can you get your bike in to Invisiframe quick!?

    I wrapped my Rawr Capra before I rode it and it’s like new!

    I’d like a kit waiting for my Decoy when it lands in June ☺️

  116. Karsten

    Are you sure it EU Law? It might be credit card rules, but not actually a law. Obviously in the UK we don’t give a damn about EU law 🤪 but I’d like to know which law it is if it’s out there.

    And if you are aggrieved because you believe you shouldn’t have been charged then you raise it with your credit card company and they may well reimburse you and charge back the amount…..

    Meaning no Decoy.

    You pays your money. You take your chances. It was clear in the purchase contract that the delivery would be some months after the initial order/purchase.

    My mistake as I just checked the European consumer law and from a EU perspective there are not any common laws stating that they cannot draw the money right away. However there is a 30 day period from where you pay to where the goods should be delivered. Indirectly that indicates that they can only draw the money 30 days prior to shipping but the area is a grey zone.

    The reason why I mixed it up is the fact that within Scandinavia there is a common law that money should not be drawn before actual shipment of goods and all online stores comply with it.

    Karsten

  117. I should have said I’m in the states, where you’re encourages to acquire lots of debt regardless if you acquire any assets in the process. 🤦‍♂️

    I’ve got a whole box full of Xpel Stealth wrap. So I’ll be doing my own ghetto invisiframe. I think the contours on the decoy will make application easy, but trimming the wrap to fit before application will take a lot of time. That’s ok tho I’ll be wanting to spend lots of quality time with my new bae.

  118. I thought Invisframe has to have access to a bike do that they could measure up and make some patterns before they could sell a kit for it. So don’t expect to be able to buy a kit when the bike isn’t even in the UK yet.

    On anther Forum, I read that someone got a free or heavily discounted Invisframe kit because he sent his bike to them for copying.

  119. My Carbon Capra came from YT already fully heli-taped.

    not that this information is particularly relevant either. Just sayin’
    ;)

  120. all the raw carbon/Stealth black 2017/18 frames had factory heli tape fitted.

    I actually only bought the Carbon because it came in stealth black ;)

  121. YT confirmed to me yesterday via email that they will NOT be producing a fast charger in the forseeable future, so that is something to bear in mind as some of the competition will be doing that this year.
  122. Just ordered a Base model. I know the pro is great value but could not wait until August!

    Was looking at this, the Norco Sight or the Tazer

    Evans were as rubbish as you would expect so ruled the sight out. Was going to go with the Tazer but had a reality check over the price so YT is is! I am going to struggle with the wait though.

  123. Just ordered a Base model. I know the pro is great value but could not wait until August!

    Was looking at this, the Norco Sight or the Tazer

    Evans were as rubbish as you would expect so ruled the sight out. Was going to go with the Tazer but had a reality check over the price so YT is is! I am going to struggle with the wait though.

    What’s your ‘in stock’ date?

    I’m keen to see how it goes from in stock to delivered!

  124. Funny, my order of the CF Pro says “has not been processed” I’m in the states. Also, have you read where it states, “battery must be removed, before transport?” Why, and how many of us will actually do that?
  125. What’s your ‘in stock’ date?

    I’m keen to see how it goes from in stock to delivered!

    I’ll keep updating. At the moment the order is in processing (guess it will stay that way until the bike is in stock) Estimated stock date is 22nd May

  126. I actually just cancelled my order and am going to keep my Focus and see how the Decoy shakes out.
  127. 1. You have to hope YT is being sincere when they say they want to make a product with a future. It’ll be sad to see if they move on and leave us V1 owners in the lurch. I could see this being an issue in 10+ years but not sooner.
    2. Isn’t this the nature of all integrated batteries designs?
    3. Red herring argument by those whose OCD can’t handle mixing wheels sizes, like MattyB said either tube will work. Mixed wheels sizes should feel great too, with lots of steering stability, but with back wheel cuttie-ability.
    4. Is this correct? I was told by several people you don’t need the big granny gear. I’m particularly interested in this as I’m going to swap to a wheelset with an xd driver and plan to swap the cassette to match (base model decoy). The only all steel 11 speed XD driven cassette I can find is the sram gx 10-42, it’s only $100 usd. AM I GOING TO STRUGGLE TO CLIMB? I also prefer Shimano brakes. But this is all personal preference.
    5. Aside from striaght up mechanical failure, I don’t foresee the need to send anything back. This is also a big plus for the Decoy as it uses the tried and true e8000, which is said to be the most reliable system available. Maybe I’m naive about electric bikes, but I’ve never needed a bike shop for anything. Bikes are simple machines, even cracking open the dampers to play with the shin stack is not very complicated. With the help of this forum’s members and maybe a little software (eMax) we should be able to keep these bikes running perfectly.
  128. The only remotely accurate point in that post is 1, which I agree with.

    Point 2 – s a load of crap as plenty of other EMTB’s use this system, and haven’t had problems.
    Point 3 – you only need a 29’r inner tube as this will work fine in a 27.5 in an emergnecy
    Point 4 – Depends on your preference, I would take a Shimano drivetrain all day long.
    Point 5 – The Shimano system is the only one the user themselves can update via an app, so doesn’t need dealer support to do, and you can take the bike to any Shimano dealer with the diagnostic software to check for any issues. Doesn’t matter if you by a bike in a shop or online, if you have a serious motor issue the motor will have to go back to Shimano.

  129. From YT FAQ:
    The warranty of the battery is governed by German law, it is valid for six months after receipt of your bike.
  130. Can’t say I really agree with many of the points, having said that, I’m happy to wait a year or two until the second gen with a newer Shimano motor…

    1. Custom battery. Having dealt with YT for 4 years I’m more than happy with their service compared to any LBS (I still value and use my LBS)
    2. Battery storage. Just unscrew and store inside….. :rolleyes:
    3. You’re riding an eBike, I don’t think one extra tube will effect your Strava times :rolleyes:
    4. Debatable but surely not a deal breaker :rolleyes:
    5. Personally my local Shimano service center is not too far away, and this is a price you pay for saving thousands

  131. Unfortunately YT has delay. Postponed my order from 01 May (cw18) to cw 21. Reason: one purchase part not available.
  132. I have spoken to two people in the last couple of days whose orders have been put back to August.
  133. Guessing there is none out in the wild yet but would anyone know what the standout er for a medium would be? It’s not listed on their site. Kenevo is back in play for me if the blowout price is going to be a fair bit lower than the decoy. Sky high toptube on the kenevo is the drawback for my short inseam.
  134. Guessing there is none out in the wild yet but would anyone know what the standout er for a medium would be? It’s not listed on their site. Kenevo is back in play for me if the blowout price is going to be a fair bit lower than the decoy. Sky high toptube on the kenevo is the drawback for my short inseam.

    Why dont you look at an E-Somett – I still dont think there’s a better long travel bike out there at the mo

  135. Why dont you look at an E-Somett – I still dont think there’s a better long travel bike out there at the mo

    Ya I’d be all over that. I still don’t think they’re shipping to Canada though. They were hinting at getting that sorted in the future. I should check on that before I commit to something. Couple weeks to decide

  136. Guessing there is none out in the wild yet but would anyone know what the standout er for a medium would be? It’s not listed on their site. Kenevo is back in play for me if the blowout price is going to be a fair bit lower than the decoy. Sky high toptube on the kenevo is the drawback for my short inseam.

    If you have a short inseam make sure any frame you go for has adequate seatpost insertion depth for you to actually run a usefull length dropper.
    Other than getting on and off or doing leg over top tube tricks in the air massive standover clearance isn’t really all that important

    Adolf silva is tiny

  137. Unfortunately YT has delay. Postponed my order from 01 May (cw18) to cw 21. Reason: one purchase part not available.

    Is there a particular place on the website to get a delivery week date? My order just shows available from 5th June in the ‘comments to order’ in my order.

  138. If you have a short inseam make sure any frame you go for has adequate seatpost insertion depth for you to actually run a usefull length dropper.
    Other than getting on and off or doing leg over top tube tricks in the air massive standover clearance isn’t really all that important

    Adolf silva is tiny

    Just trying to work out compromises. No tricks but the most comfortable bikes I’ve had have had lots of SO. Current transition scout is my bench mark for my fit. Short cs, long tt, slack ha, steep sa and lots of SO. Bit hard to find a of that with an emtb so weighing the compromises . Curious that a large meta power has more SO than a med kenevo or a med powerplay. From the pics it looks like the decoy has lots of SO . Wish they’d list the numbers . Sommet hits all the marks(I’d probably slacken the ha but that’s ez)

  139. My biggest issue was picking a size when you’re in between, usually I go up, not down.

    I’m on a large Transition Smuggler at the moment, 475 reach. 5’10ish and normal proportions – and I love it. I was going to go XL on the Decoy to match the reach but ordered a large in the end, thinking that the Smuggler takes some effort to manual compared to a bike with shorter reach, compounded by the low bottom bracket.

    Add in an extra 20lbs of weight, and I think a long, low heavy bike will most likely make the front too hard to lift for me, especially with the longer chainstays on the Decoy.

    Suspect I’ll have a large Base for sale not long after (if) the bike arrives – hopefully week 21 as above.

    As for standover on a medium, I don’t think you’d be far away at all from adding bottom bracket height and seat tube length (if you imagine a horizontal line across from the top of the seat tube), so about 760mm.

  140. I ii

    My biggest issue was picking a size when you’re in between, usually I go up, not down.

    I’m on a large Transition Smuggler at the moment, 475 reach. 5’10ish and normal proportions – and I love it. I was going to go XL on the Decoy to match the reach but ordered a large in the end, thinking that the Smuggler takes some effort to manual compared to a bike with shorter reach, compounded by the low bottom bracket.

    Add in an extra 20lbs of weight, and I think a long, low heavy bike will most likely make the front too hard to lift for me, especially with the longer chainstays on the Decoy.

    Suspect I’ll have a large Base for sale not long after (if) the bike arrives – hopefully week 21 as above.

    As for standover on a medium, I don’t think you’d be far away at all from adding bottom bracket height and seat tube length (if you imagine a horizontal line across from the top of the seat tube), so about 760mm.

    I’m always between sizes, either med or sml. Went small on my Levo after demo on a med as it felt like a barge. Sizing down brings a bit of agility back whilst the weight of all ebikes provide stability so don’t see the need to size up. Ordered a small Decoy as reach and wheelbase are both longer than my small Levo 18.

  141. Makes sense to opt for a little less reach, within reason, to keep some agility. Should help counteract the longer CS on emtb’s as well.
    I was ready to jump in on the large meta power on sale(last years). Reach is pretty much the same as a lot of medium bikes. Then I looked at seat tube length. Medium is 440(reasonable) then the large jumps up to 490(crazy) so that ended that. I’d like to have a 150mm dropper so that’s not going to work.
    Decoy is back in play. It does tick a lot of boxes. Still going to check the blowout prices on the kenevo stock first. Only think on the kenevo I’ll have to change straight away is tires and add inserts
  142. My biggest issue was picking a size when you’re in between, usually I go up, not down.

    I’m on a large Transition Smuggler at the moment, 475 reach. 5’10ish and normal proportions – and I love it. I was going to go XL on the Decoy to match the reach but ordered a large in the end, thinking that the Smuggler takes some effort to manual compared to a bike with shorter reach, compounded by the low bottom bracket.

    Add in an extra 20lbs of weight, and I think a long, low heavy bike will most likely make the front too hard to lift for me, especially with the longer chainstays on the Decoy.

    Suspect I’ll have a large Base for sale not long after (if) the bike arrives – hopefully week 21 as above.

    As for standover on a medium, I don’t think you’d be far away at all from adding bottom bracket height and seat tube length (if you imagine a horizontal line across from the top of the seat tube), so about 760mm.

    Same. I’m 5’10” I just sold my large smuggler. I wanted an XL decoy, for a roomy cockpit, but my mates and a yt sales guy talked me into a large. They use your same logic. I was worried cause I was planning to also buy a really long enduro frame like a large pole machine or raaw Madonna. I thought the reach difference would hurt my consistency on both bikes. So needing a bike in the meantime I build my large wreckoning back up. Now I’m falling back in love with this bike! And it’s genius cause the all of the geo is very similar to the large decoy. I really like how much less work I have to do to load the front wheel for cornering. I don’t get as tired cause it requires less weight on my arms. So I’m going to rock the large wreck and decoy for now.

  143. Now you have me wondering if I have done the wrong thing going for a XL Decoy as the numbers looked nearest to my large Wreckoning 😕
  144. Hard to say if the XL Decoy is less ideal for you than the L. But the L Decoy is very similar to the L Wreckoning, basically just the steeper sta and corresponding shorter TTL and longer CS are the only small differences. Going from a L wreck to XL decoy is sizing up.
  145. Hard to say if the XL Decoy is less ideal for you than the L. But the L Decoy is very similar to the L Wreckoning, basically just the steeper sta and corresponding shorter TTL and longer CS are the only small differences. Going from a L wreck to XL decoy is sizing up.

    I spent ages looking at the sizes of the two. In the end I went on the height recommendation as it was showing 6’1” was XL.
    Just sent YT an email to find out if my order would be delayed if I change to a large as like you say the numbers are more comparable. 👍🏼

  146. Any members with an order for a Decoy due in May heard anything?
    Decoy CF Base was due in from about the 4th ?
  147. Yes – I’m sure all of us with orders in for any build level would like to know of any shipment notifications from YT any any country. I’m supposed to have a Med Pro model shipped to CA but missed the first wave so I’m willing to live vicariously through others until early June. I’m somewhat thankful that I have to travel next week to take my mind off of it for a bit! 😉
  148. I’m somewhat envious and slightly in awe of all you early adopters who ordered without a testride. I’m hoping to get a demo on a Decoy this weekend.
  149. Well I’ve had a ride on my friends Focus Jam2 and it’s the same motor. Fit wise will be interesting as the Decoy falls between my Yeti SB4.5 and Jeffsy (2018)29er and handling should be snappier than my gen3 Nomad was. The rest is adaptation which I’m used to as I have the upper body build for someone 5’8" or so but my legs don’t know that at a 28.5" inseam … I do have a set of 10mm rise bars waiting to help with the high stack height though.

    I guess we wait and see if I was good at estimating or it’s a colossal $hit show.

  150. I actually think the stack is kinda low, especially if you’re not sizing up to a trendy long bike. I bought a 35 mm riser bar for mine.
  151. Yooooo! I got my shipment confirmation! It’s large black base shipping to AK from CA.
  152. Looks like they received the shipment. Did you talked to YT or was it automatic email confirmation?
  153. Two emails, a shipping confirmation with tracking and an eta, and an invoice with warranty info.
  154. Sick! Early season for AK too. I guess that means Canada should have some availability soon as well
  155. That’s awesome! Was your original availability supposed to be in May or June?

    Q-Ball

  156. It’s the FoD Demo weekend, has anyone tested one today?
    I’m going tomorrow. And Sunday if necessary…
  157. It’s the FoD Demo weekend, has anyone tested one today?
    I’m going tomorrow. And Sunday if necessary…

    Interested to know you thoughts – I had one on order but cancelled it, as after thinking about it I concluded its only real advantage over my E-Sommett is aesthetics, and not enough info on the bigger battery yet.

  158. It’s the FoD Demo weekend, has anyone tested one today?
    I’m going tomorrow. And Sunday if necessary…

    Yep . Stunning looking bike
    Really liked it
    Time was a bit limited. You get an hour but more like 45 mins by the time they set it up.
    Which is a proper pro service BTW
    First impressions – Shimano motor not as powerful as my Levo19
    Settings for assistance wernt to my liking but this could be tweakable .
    Not sure about that though
    Suspension was plush
    I really would like more time on one to give a proper opinion
    Don’t get me wrong it’s a beaut but I prefer my Levo

  159. Yep . Stunning looking bike
    Really liked it
    Time was a bit limited. You get an hour but more like 45 mins by the time they set it up.
    Which is a proper pro service BTW
    First impressions – Shimano motor not as powerful as my Levo19
    Settings for assistance wernt to my liking but this could be tweakable .
    Not sure about that though
    Suspension was plush
    I really would like more time on one to give a proper opinion
    Don’t get me wrong it’s a beaut but I prefer my Levo

    After owning a Focus Jam2 with the Shimano motor and now after selling the Jam I have a 2019 Levo and for me the Brose motor is so much nicer than the Shimano in every way, although the Shimano was a nice motor but once I had ridden that Brose it was a clear winner but the YT is a superb looking bike and I am sure it will be fantastic.

  160. Queues for demo were a bit mental today .
    Going to be crazy busy over the wkend .
    Went at 10.30 thinking it would be quieter on a school day
    About 30 in the queue . Went back about 3pm . Nine peeps in front of me . Waited about an hr
    Make sure you bring ID . Drivers license or passport
  161. Quizzed them about service concerns.
    Said local Shimano service centres will be able to sort any motor/ electronic issues.
    Also all standard issues like fork ,shock , bearings etc can be sorted locally
    Parts and labour all foc
    If it does have to go back to Germany for some reason than its about a month turn around inc shipping time
    700w battery is in development but probably be end of yr before it’s available.
    Also it’s dimensions will be bigger and protrude below downtube
  162. Quizzed them about service concerns.
    Said local Shimano service centres will be able to sort any motor/ electronic issues.
    Also all standard issues like fork ,shock , bearings etc can be sorted locally
    Parts and labour all foc
    If it does have to go back to Germany for some reason than its about a month turn around inc shipping time
    700w battery is in development but probably be end of yr before it’s available.
    Also it’s dimensions will be bigger and protrude below downtube

    Not sure how they provide labour FOC for standard issues? Never had anything major on my YT but they’ve only ever sent replacement parts, which has never been a problem for me.

  163. Not sure how they provide labour FOC for standard issues? Never had anything major on my YT but they’ve only ever sent replacement parts, which has never been a problem for me.

    You may be right but that’s what I was told.
    Reality may be different though 😱

  164. Yep . Stunning looking bike
    Really liked it
    Time was a bit limited. You get an hour but more like 45 mins by the time they set it up.
    Which is a proper pro service BTW
    First impressions – Shimano motor not as powerful as my Levo19
    Settings for assistance wernt to my liking but this could be tweakable .
    Not sure about that though
    Suspension was plush
    I really would like more time on one to give a proper opinion
    Don’t get me wrong it’s a beaut but I prefer my Levo

    After owning a Focus Jam2 with the Shimano motor and now after selling the Jam I have a 2019 Levo and for me the Brose motor is so much nicer than the Shimano in every way, although the Shimano was a nice motor but once I had ridden that Brose it was a clear winner but the YT is a superb looking bike and I am sure it will be fantastic.

    After riding an e8000 equipped bike, and now being married, working two job and getting fat, the Shimano equipped bike is for me so much nicer in every way [emoji13]

    I guess no one is trying to claim the e8000 is the best motor, just better value vs a new levo? Trade offs I guess.

  165. After riding an e8000 equipped bike, and now being married, working two job and getting fat, the Shimano equipped bike is for me so much nicer in every way [emoji13]

    I guess no one is trying to claim the e8000 is the best motor, just better value vs a new levo? Trade offs I guess.

    I agree as I did really like the Shimano and as you say a trade off but we’ll worth it :)

    I got a superb deal on both our Levo’s but if I had paid full price I would still be on the Shimano, but all the motors out there are good 👍

  166. I’ve owned 3 Levo’s and now am on a Shimano, and liking it over the Brose. Everybody has their own idea of what they prefer. Both are great IMO.
  167. I’ve just queued for 30 minutes to be told that as the bike I want to ride is out I just have to wait and they can’t take my details or put me on a waiting list.
  168. I’ve just queued for 30 minutes to be told that as the bike I want to ride is out I just have to wait and they can’t take my details or put me on a waiting list.

    What a shame I hope you get to ride it as I am looking forward to see what you think to it :)

  169. I’ve just queued for 30 minutes to be told that as the bike I want to ride is out I just have to wait and they can’t take my details or put me on a waiting list.

    I finally got a bike at 11:30…

    What a shame I hope you get to ride it as I am looking forward to see what you think to it :)

    I am also very curious to hear his opinion after he waited for so long to finally test it.

    I initially tested a Large Decoy.

    Once you actually get a bike the operation is pretty slick; they’ve got set-up stations to set the sag and seat height and charts to set the damping.

    Because of time restrictions (you only get the bike for an hour) I decided to ride a bit of easy Blue Trail, some off-piste singletrack, the cracking final descent of the Verderers and a couple of DH trails.

    The large felt a little "tall", even though the seat height was set correctly and I ended up lowering the dropper about an inch to get comfortable on the bike. The bike was more maneuverable than my Trek but still felt stable although I’m not completely sold on the 29er front wheel.

    I then queued again. For 2.5 hours…

    This time I took out a medium. I asked them to set the shock the same as the Large but to drop the pressure in the forks a bit so went out with about 30% sag instead of 25%.
    I immediately felt happier on the Medium; seeming to be in, rather than on, the bike. It was poppier too and easier to throw about.

    I Strava’d both rides and the bikes were surprisingly close, but the Med was consistently faster, although not significantly faster than my Trek.

  170. 5’9"(and a quarter…)

    I was talking to one of the YT guys and he echoed what I was saying. Everyone was telling him to ride L but he was more comfortable on a M.
    I rode with a guy who is 6’5". He took out a XXL and said it felt too long, but his current bike is 2004 Bullet.

  171. Not sure i like the idea of having to wait till end of year for 700 battery and the fact thats its reported to hang out more ☹
  172. An extra bank of cells will only add 21mm max to the battery pack, less if they’re nested. I’m disappointed it’s going to take so long to bring it to market, but I’d rather they tested it properly rather than rushed it.
  173. I also went to the demo day. I went to see the setup Thursday night and had a hour with the rolling circus lads they let me try the large and the xl for size but not ride them. when having a chat I spoke to the head of the operation, one of the questions I asked him was about the battery when is the 700 battery available. His answer was the press have it totally wrong its not available till early next year.
    I arrived on Friday at 7.30 second in line and took out the XL Pro Race out for the hour and was blown away with it loved it.. I then got in the line for a another four hours and took the Large Pro Race out to to check I had the right size. My thoughts are the Large was bit more playful than the XL but I thought the cockpit was small so I Come to there conclusion the XL is the right size for me. I am 5,11. but thoroughly enjoyed the experience now I am contemplating getting my credit card out or carry on test riding other bikes
  174. 5’9"(and a quarter…)

    I was talking to one of the YT guys and he echoed what I was saying. Everyone was telling him to ride L but he was more comfortable on a M.
    I rode with a guy who is 6’5". He took out a XXL and said it felt too long, but his current bike is 2004 Bullet.

    Thanks!

  175. Once you actually get a bike the operation is pretty slick; they’ve got set-up stations to set the sag and seat height and charts to set the damping.

    Would be cool if anyone attending could get some photos of the settings charts and post them👍🏼

  176. I still don’t really understand why everyone is so obsessed with this bike, it’s a sorted bike with an e8000, plenty of them about!

    I love my YT, but people are waiting on reviews like it’s got linkage forks and a regen battery! No doubt it’s an amazing bike, just chill winston…

  177. I’m expecting to jump on it and be busting double backs off of curbs from the get go. I think I read that somewhere
  178. Now you have me wondering if I have done the wrong thing going for a XL Decoy as the numbers looked nearest to my large Wreckoning 😕

    I’ve a large Wreckoning and decided on a large Decoy, but I was very tempted by the XL. I’m 5.11 with long arms. Hope I’ve done the right thing, my gut instinct tells me it’ll be the right choice

  179. I’ve a large Wreckoning and decided on a large Decoy, but I was very tempted by the XL. I’m 5.11 with long arms. Hope I’ve done the right thing, my gut instinct tells me it’ll be the right choice

    I’m the other way to you, long torso & shorter limbs and 6’1”.
    Guess we’ll find out soon enough!
    I emailed YT to see if I could change to a large. The response was I’d need to cancel my current order then order another at the back of the queue.
    Decided to see how the XL is when it arrives and if necessary return it.

  180. Would be cool if anyone attending could get some photos of the settings charts and post them👍🏼

    I asked about them today. They are a work in progress but will be on the website eventually.

    The Fox settings were pretty good, if a little stiff, but the RS settings were way off for someone of my weight. The Sheet suggested 140psi in the forks and 220psi in the shock. Way too hard and way too soft. Ended up on 110psi in the forks (which I think was still too high; I run 105psi on my Trek) and 285psi :eek: on the shock.

    I went back today to try the Decoy Base as it’s the one my wallet wants me to buy. I had to ride a Large as that was the only size they bought and I still think it’s too tall. I preferred the analogue shifting over the Di2 but the RS suspension was a big letdown after the Fox Factory of the Race Pro. It was so harsh I actually had to stop two thirds of the way down a descent as I couldn’t feel my hands or use the brakes with any sort of finesse (not that I’ve got much finesse in the first place…) I have Yari forks on my Trek and they feel much nicer than the ones fitted to the Decoy.

    I’m a little concerned over the amount of cosmetic damage that was obvious on the Base bike. I noticed a small blemish on one of the Pro Race bikes I rode yesterday but that was apparently a loading accident. The lovely bright red trim on the Base had loads of stone chips on the chainstays and a big deep scratch on the top tube.

    EDIT: The brakes on the Base were definitely weaker than those on the Pro Race.

  181. Good to hear they are going to post the settings.

    Odd about the Rockshox suspension feeling harsh and giving arm pump over the Fox stuff. The guys I ride with who have had recent Fox Factory forks have moaned no end and are in the process of switching. Has me a bit nervous as I haven’t run a Fox fork before…..

  182. IME the best possible shock for a highly progressive LR bike is a simple DH coil shock that’s valved for the riders weight, style and terrain. That’s why I’ve got a $250 bomerber CR over at avalanche being tuned for my base model. The yari fork is also a great chassis for a drop in damper. It’s stiffer and less creaky than fox. I’ve got an avalanche damper and Vorsprung smashpot on the way for it. All in its $1000 in suspension upgrades, but will absolutely blow the fox factory stuff out of the water.
  183. Were you guys physically standing in line

    Yes. There was no reservation system, it was a first come, first served and if you wandered off you were at the back of the queue again. As I found out to my cost on Saturday.

    It was the only letdown of the weekend, a simple wishlist system would have helped and kept the brats away if it was limited to one reserved bike per person.

  184. Now imagine being in the queue behind a snot-nosed brat who’s waiting for a Large Decoy but takes the Medium because it became ready 5 minutes before the Large…
  185. I’d have talked him out of taking the Medium… If I hadn’t already talked him out of the queue completely while waiting ;)
  186. He had Mummy with him, so stuffing him head first into the recycling wasn’t an option.
  187. Another thought; all three bikes were noisy, easily as loud as my (new) Bosch motor, and felt quite mechanical. I had a brief ride round the car park on a Fantic and the Brose motor was almost completely silent in all modes and buttery smooth.
  188. I am impressed by the Decoy, but…

    The Base model was disappointing because the suspension was so harsh after the silky smooth Fox Factory kit on the Pro Race and I didn’t think the Shimano motor was a significant improvement over the Bosch.

    It is a better bike than my Trek but I’m not convinced it’s better enough to warrant spending the money.

  189. I have a Pro on order and going to test ride at Gisburn this weekend. Loving my current Levo so the Decoy will need to be great or I will cancel the Decoy and concentrate on increasing the Levo to 180 both ends and frankenwheels.
  190. I have a Pro on order and going to test ride at Gisburn this weekend. Loving my current Levo so the Decoy will need to be great or I will cancel the Decoy and concentrate on increasing the Levo to 180 both ends and frankenwheels.

    My buddy is very happy with his levo at 170mm travel with the reduced offset 36 factory fork.

    View attachment 13990

  191. Just the fork. He said it transformed the bike over the stock pike at 150. He’s really really fast and has a lot of nice bikes. So I’d say it’s worth a shot! Not sure if he’s doing anything with the shock.
  192. Demoed one at FoD today. Turned up at 8.30, 10 people in queue before me, everyone went out about 9.30, my bike came in at 10.30 and I was out on at 11am.

    Sooo. It nice, very nice, but after riding many other ebikes did not blow me away.

    It handles most like a e-sommet in my opinion. Which is a good thing for any bike, let alone a psudo-29er! Its nimble, turns incredibly well, jumps well. Suspension wise, not as plush as 165mm would make you think. Also, they set it up with a lot of compression. When you bounce on it it feels like the climb switch is on. But I still used all the travel on sheepskull and GBU DH runs at FoD. There was oil traces on the X2 so the shock could have been desperate for a service after many many demos.

    It didn’t feel as big as the geo suggests. In fact it felt good if on the smaller and nimble side. (6’1 on an XL). Definitely not as confident flat out as my kenevo. But definitely more playful. Front end feels quit low and short contrary to reviews. I did some steep techy stuff on one of the off piste DH runs and it didn’t feel like I had much out in front of me. BB height felt about right, but could go lower. Felts very balanced. Chainstays felt shorter than 442mm in real world.

    I didn’t like the pro races di2.

    In one hour I rode hard mostly in turbo and did 4 DH runs and the skills lines 4 times (1800ft climbing) and it used 1 bar of battery!!! Impressive.

    Just trying to decide whether to keep my order (delivery june) or cancel it and keep my kenevo. Or stump up the extra cash for that RM altitude 70 I really reallt want. First world problems.

  193. It didn’t feel as big as the geo suggests. In fact it felt good if on the smaller and nimble side. (6’1 on an XL). Definitely not as confident flat out as my kenevo. But definitely more playful.

    Like the sound of that, right up my street. Was beginning to worry I had gone too big with XL👍🏼

  194. Both ends or just the fork?

    My LBS told me 170 would void the frame warranty. :(

    you are right there as I read my Levo booklet earlier and it said 160mm was the maximum upgrade on suspension and anything more that that will void the warranty!

  195. you are right there as I read my Levo booklet earlier and it said 160mm was the maximum upgrade on suspension and anything more that that will void the warranty!

    Does it say anything about the rear shock?

  196. Does it say anything about the rear shock?

    It doesn’t say anything about the rear shock but it does state the front fork maximum travel is 160mm on the 29 wheel, it says check with your Specialized dealer if you are changing to longer travel forks/shocks etc as it will alter the bike bb height and the head angle.

  197. Right guys, I’m in a pickle. Just ordered the Decoy pro, I have a crazy delivery date of September maybe November. I wrote to Yt about when the new 2020 was being launched, they stated usually Jan 2020. So should I bin my order and wait to see the 2020 model, potentially with the new battery, or just go balls deep. Of course I’ll miss the summer season due to the exception delivery times.

    Arrrrh

  198. Right guys, I’m in a pickle. Just ordered the Decoy pro, I have a crazy delivery date of September maybe November. I wrote to Yt about when the new 2020 was being launched, they stated usually Jan 2020. So should I bin my order and wait to see the 2020 model, potentially with the new battery, or just go balls deep. Of course I’ll miss the summer season due to the exception delivery times.

    Arrrrh

    I was in a similar position. Ended up going with a Meta Power (just as capable but less bling) and my plan is to upgrade in 18-24 months when the new Shimano motor is available.

    The base and pro models have much shorter lead times so you could just swap to one of them.

  199. My Base arrived today.

    Really well packaged, everything boxed nicely and logically laid out. Everything was set up, just the bars to put on, brakes to swap left to right and then whack the mech on.

    They were the easiest wheels/tyres I ever converted to tubeless. Valves were included, rims pre-taped. Two mahoosive tubes out, 550g saved right there :)

    First impressions after a couple of hours, in low geometry:
    The motor isn’t as powerful as a Brose, but felt more natural (I couldn’t wheelie a Brose easily, Shimano much easier) ;)
    Fit on a Large is perfect, pleased I didn’t go XL. Shorter than my large Smuggler but it suits the bike well
    The forks take an hour or so to lose the initial stiction from the seals, don’t really get that with Fox… I think they’ll be okay
    Rear shock has no compression adjustment, I think that will be changed before the fork damper
    Brakes feel okay, but will swap to Saints unless they continue to bed in and provide more power
    Seat is awful (personal, and an easy change)
    Not sure I like the limited steering range built into the headset, nearly made an arse of myself trackstanding at some lights…
    Chainstay protector/chain is unbelievably quiet
    The rubber cover is fiddly as to put back in after charging
    I think I’d like a longer crank, for when the assistance ends…
    I can’t back pedal to oil the chain! 30 years of habit gone…
    General fit and finish is way better than I was expecting though – maybe unfairly.

    The bike feels very balanced, and confident, I was riding like I’d had it for a month. I don’t remember having as much fun on a bike. Ever.

    16mph is too slow for the assist to stop. I don’t think it’s far out, and realise the legal issues, but 19 or 20mph would make a huge difference on flowing singletrack where I know I’ll be faster on my Smuggler as it currently stands. I don’t think I’d want assist higher than 20. Climbs are another matter though, as is blasting out of tight, footy, twisty corners in the woods.

    Downhills at speed, and the weight just doesn’t really come into it.

    Really, really pleased with it (admittedly a first impression only) and can’t wait to get back on it tomorrow :)

  200. Really, really pleased with it (admittedly a first impression only) and can’t wait to get back on it tomorrow :)

    I completely agree with everything you said, impressive packaging, assembly ease, fit and finish, and the ride! I didn’t even have to adjust the derailleur. I’ve bought a lot of bikes with ep, requiring more assembly and in standard packaging. So, I’ve never experienced such a premium unboxing. My only complaint is the cables are too long and the cockpit is untidy. I have to cut and bleed the brakes and wrap the wiring.

    I’ve never ridden an ebike so I was expecting a heavy sluggish feel, but this just feels like a good enduro bike. It has an amazingly balanced, playful and natural feel. And it’s not hard to bunny hop decently high. I’m pretty shocked how normal it feels.

    Large is perfect for me too at 5’11”. The reach is about an inch shorter than my large ‘19 gt sensor, theres plenty of room in the cockpit but the weight balance is more biased towards the front. Helps load the front for corners. The steerer is cut super short with just one 5mm spacer to adjust the bar height. I’m glad I got got riser bars cause it feels a bit low for the steep stuff around here, especially with the divey motion control damper.

  201. I’ve owned 3 Levo’s and now am on a Shimano, and liking it over the Brose. Everybody has their own idea of what they prefer. Both are great IMO.

    Just wondering what you prefer in the Shimano over Brose?

  202. I got to take the decoy out to a little lift-less bike park in California called skypark. It’s was an absolute blast on the ebike. Definitely more fun and capable than I expected. After half a day on the Decoy I did a few runs on my wreckoning, which was a lot more fun on the downs, but that’s not really a fair comparison. I also got to ride a turbo levo expert with a 160 fox 36. It felt a lot lighter than the decoy when getting the wheels off the ground and a lot closer to the wreckoning in terms of mid air playfulness. I can, you know, really send it and the decoy felt a little stale in the air, albeit very confident. We were climbing in turbo mode and the Brose has significantly more power and was much much smoother with power delivery. The turbo levo motor package is simply way nicer than the Shimano. What I found to be super interesting tho is the decoy rips single track. It felt more nimble than the levo. I think I’d rather have a beefy levo, because I love big flow stuff, but the levo is also twice the price and the bikes are pretty close in performance. The park didn’t have any techy steep gnarly chunky stuff. But I think the decoy will ride pretty much like a good enduro bike through that kind of stuff. I’m happy.
  203. I got to take the decoy out to a little lift-less bike park in California called skypark. It’s was an absolute blast on the ebike. Definitely more fun and capable than I expected. After half a day on the Decoy I did a few runs on my wreckoning, which was a lot more fun on the downs, but that’s not really a fair comparison. I also got to ride a turbo levo expert with a 160 fox 36. It felt a lot lighter than the decoy when getting the wheels off the ground and a lot closer to the wreckoning in terms of mid air playfulness. I can, you know, really send it and the decoy felt a little stale in the air, albeit very confident. We were climbing in turbo mode and the Brose has significantly more power and was much much smoother with power delivery. The turbo levo motor package is simply way nicer than the Shimano. What I found to be super interesting tho is the decoy rips single track. It felt more nimble than the levo. I think I’d rather have a beefy levo, because I love big flow stuff, but the levo is also twice the price and the bikes are pretty close in performance. The park didn’t have any techy steep gnarly chunky stuff. But I think the decoy will ride pretty much like a good enduro bike through that kind of stuff. I’m happy.

    Good feedback. If you believe the hype we’re all going to sell our acoustic bikes as they’re pretty useless compared to a sorted eBike, but it seems you’ve still got plenty of time for your wreakoning.

  204. Maybe if they were lighter! My large base with 354 gram pedals, tubeless, rimpact+ rear insert, and a carbon bar weights 53.4 pounds. I think I’ll ride it with my friends on the weekends a lot. But probably stick to analog for more fun and fitness during the weekday rides.
  205. Maybe if they were lighter! My large base with 354 gram pedals, tubeless, and a carbon bar weights 53.4 pounds. I think I’ll ride it with my friends on the weekends a lot. But probably stick to analog for more fun and fitness during the weekday rides.

    I guess it depends on riding style. I’m waiting on my first eBike, but I’m lead to beleave the extra weight improves traction and descending capabilities, I’m sure it does, but it seems if you like to pop and boost of stuff it’s more of a hindrance.

    I thought this was an interesting comparison… cant beleave how high he can bunny hop the eBike!!

  206. We were climbing in turbo mode and the Brose has significantly more power and was much much smoother with power delivery. The turbo levo motor package is simply way nicer than the Shimano.

    Boost on the Shimano isn’t very refined. It’s only really there to give you an instant full power hit to get up & over stuff.
    Trail mode is where you need to be. If you are ‘shuttling’ use the E-TUBE app to increase the assistance level in trail to medium or if necessary high then try your comparison test again. Dont get me wrong it will not make up for the extra torque of the Brose motor and the noise from a Shimano is somewhat obnoxious!!

  207. I got to take the decoy out to a little lift-less bike park in California called skypark. It’s was an absolute blast on the ebike. Definitely more fun and capable than I expected. After half a day on the Decoy I did a few runs on my wreckoning, which was a lot more fun on the downs, but that’s not really a fair comparison. I also got to ride a turbo levo expert with a 160 fox 36. It felt a lot lighter than the decoy when getting the wheels off the ground and a lot closer to the wreckoning in terms of mid air playfulness. I can, you know, really send it and the decoy felt a little stale in the air, albeit very confident. We were climbing in turbo mode and the Brose has significantly more power and was much much smoother with power delivery. The turbo levo motor package is simply way nicer than the Shimano. What I found to be super interesting tho is the decoy rips single track. It felt more nimble than the levo. I think I’d rather have a beefy levo, because I love big flow stuff, but the levo is also twice the price and the bikes are pretty close in performance. The park didn’t have any techy steep gnarly chunky stuff. But I think the decoy will ride pretty much like a good enduro bike through that kind of stuff. I’m happy.

    Funny.. I was up there yesterday on my Kenevo with my buddy on his Levo Comp 2019 (such good dirt!). I thought I saw a decoy! Interesting comparison. Also funny – is that my other mtb is an Insurgent.

    Perhaps it sounds like the Decoy is closer in comparison to the Kenevo rather than decoy – at least on fast/flowy stuff. I rode my buddies levo for a few laps, and other than suspension quality (my kenevo is dialed with modded lyrik and ohlins) and some bar height tweaks – it felt faster rolling and able to keep momentum better than my kenevo. Sounds like the Decoy is somewhat similar, or at least leans more towards the kenevo side of the fence vs. levo depending on the track.

  208. Nick –

    Did your Decoy come in as scheduled based on when the YT site said availability? I’m just wondering how close to 6/5 they are going to be with my medium Pro model.

    Thanks – Q

  209. Eta was 6/5 but I got a shipment notification on 5/15. I got lucky. So I guess yt is trying to be conservative with delivery dates. I assume they are waiting on a big container and filling orders in the queue as fast as they get them in stock.

    Ya. The bike got a lot of attention yesterday! Between it and the Evil a lot of dudes in flannel wanted to make friends. Let’s just say it’s endurobro approved [emoji41] lol

    The differences may boil down to the shorter chain stays, smaller rear wheel and lower bb (low mode) might help the decoy corner quicker than the levo and the levo might weigh 5+ pounds less so it feels more maneuverable in the air. Should say my feedback, while honest, might not be valid for someone else, ymmv philosophy.

  210. you are right there as I read my Levo booklet earlier and it said 160mm was the maximum upgrade on suspension and anything more that that will void the warranty!

    Put a 160mm Fox 36 on it and get it adjusted to 170 … For warranty purposes a 160 :) I am always confused as to WHY anyone would TELL the manufacturer that they had another fork on it if it breaks … duh One final thing is if you break it with a 170 then a 160 will break it just the same .

  211. .. duh One final thing is if you break it with a 170 then a 160 will break it just the same .

    Do you even physics bro? The forks act as a lever, the longer the lever the higher the force exerted. The kind of impact that will break a frame is likely to happen at full extension so a 170 fork will exert more force than a 160 fork.

  212. nah.. it isn’t Dom. sorry.

    Even 50:50ing or full nose casing a into the backside of a massive double a fork won’t be at full extension when the frame headtube takes force of the hit

    at 25% sag point there’s only 2.5mm difference between a 170mm and 160mm forks A-C height.
    Less than the difference between many headset lower cups. and a lot less than fitting a stupid 2.8 front tyre ;)

  213. nah.. it isn’t Dom. sorry.

    Even 50:50ing or full nose casing a into the backside of a massive double a fork won’t be at full extension when the frame headtube takes force of the hit

    at 25% sag point there’s only 2.5mm difference between a 170mm and 160mm forks A-C height.
    Less than the difference between many headset lower cups. and a lot less than fitting a stupid 2.8 front tyre ;)

    Hey Gary I don’t understand any of the above :) but it does sound bloody impressive though :)

  214. Kind of surprising that they wouldn’t want more than 160 fork on a 165 rear bike. Thatd make it the only production bike that would have more travel in the rear. This from a company that gives the ok on the Capra to have a 200mm triple clamp if you want. If the 160 is max for the decoy , id call that piss poor designing. It makes little difference in climbing ability to have an extra 10 or 20 mm travel added on up front but adds a bunch of capability on the downhills. I’d want a minimum of 170 fork on the decoy and probably put a 180
  215. @Gary everything I wrote is technically correct, even if the effect isn’t as pronounced as the 10mm difference in fork lengths would suggest.
  216. Yeah. everything you said was "technically" correct Dom..
    I’m not really disputing that
    but How many headtubes and fork chassis have you broken in your time? and how did each one happen?
    I’ve broken (flaired/cracked) 7 headtubes and bent/cracked/broken/twisted more forks than I care to count (well into double figures). None were broken because the forks were 10mm longer than recommended. (many were actually less than 100mm travel).
    My point here is all of the above failed from making a pretty big mistake (and an extra 10mm or 10mm less) leverage wouldn’t have made any difference to the outcome)
    You could also use physics/logic to argue an extra 10mm travel can be LESS stressful on the frame
    Having all of the above I wouldn’t go sticking a 200mm dual crown fork on a bike not designed to run one but I wouldn’t worry too much about upping your forks travel 10mm above manufacturers recommendation unless you are already a fork/frame killer..

    Also… Do ask yourself what it is you are trying to achieve by increasing travel? (MOAR is not always an improvement)

  217. The last few posts have been about 170 forks on a Levo.

    Oh, thanks. Missed the pivot. All applicable apart from the more travel on the rear part. How many stock 140 rear bikes came specced with a 150 fork and no one gave a second thought about putting the fork to 160. Fair to say in most cases people did that. I figured a 20 mm difference at this point in frame manufacturing wouldn’t risk anything unless maybe it was a triple clamp. The only headtube I ripped off were 90’s bikes I put a triple clamp on or 90’s cc hardtail I made into dj bikes. By the numbers, I wouldn’t keep a levo at 150 fork and I’d be more inclined to make it 170 then 160. Part of that might be our local riding area but at the same time, .8 degree off the head angle and 20 mm more travel isn’t going to make it a dog on the climbs. That will make it much more capable on the down though. If I had a warranted issue I’d forget that part

  218. Kind of surprising that they wouldn’t want more than 160 fork on a 165 rear bike. Thatd make it the only production bike that would have more travel in the rear. This from a company that gives the ok on the Capra to have a 200mm triple clamp if you want. If the 160 is max for the decoy , id call that piss poor designing. It makes little difference in climbing ability to have an extra 10 or 20 mm travel added on up front but adds a bunch of capability on the downhills. I’d want a minimum of 170 fork on the decoy and probably put a 180

    The pro & race versions are fitted with the e version of a Fox 36 so 160mm is the max travel. The guts on the air side are Fox 34 so they could beef up the stanchions.
    The base model Yari can have the travel increased up to 180mm👍🏼

  219. The pro & race versions are fitted with the e version of a Fox 36 so 160mm is the max travel. The guts on the air side are Fox 34 so they could beef up the stanchions.
    The base model Yari can have the travel increased up to 180mm👍🏼

    Yes, I like the base model. Make the Yari at 180, aluminium chainstay, swap to coil rear shock(new marzbomber is cheap), burlier tires(michelin)with tire inserts

  220. I agree about the coil shock, assuming the suspension is progressive enough, but the Fox fork was infinitely superior to the Yari. More travel won’t fix the lack of controlled damping.
  221. Yes, I like the base model. Make the Yari at 180, aluminium chainstay, swap to coil rear shock(new marzbomber is cheap), burlier tires(michelin)with tire inserts

    This is what I’m doing, already sent the bomber to avalanche. But I’m keeping the fork at 160 for now. Also fitting an avy damper and Vorsprung smashpot coil. I wasn’t worried about adding the weight to an already heavy bike, but now that I’ve ridden it I’m not so excited for two reasons. 1) the bike doesn’t feel all that poppy even with air suspension and 2) it’ll be over 55 pounds even after I swap in a carbon wheel set and handle bar. I should have it fully coiled by next weekend. I’ll let you know how it goes.

  222. @Doomanic A lyrik damper bolts straight in a Yari and isn’t crazy expensive.
    FWIW I prefer my Lyriks (3 of them) to every 36 I’ve ridden. (loads)
  223. I know the Charger 2.1 damper fits but it’s over 300 quid! The Charger 2 is around £225 but is being phased out. If anyone knows of a C2 damper for less I’d be interested.

    I haven’t ridden Lyrics, but as I’ve said before, the Fox kit was markedly superior to the RS kit, both on the Base and on my Trek (and my Trek feels better than the RS Decoy).

  224. Maybe if they were lighter! My large base with 354 gram pedals, tubeless, rimpact+ rear insert, and a carbon bar weights 53.4 pounds. I think I’ll ride it with my friends on the weekends a lot. But probably stick to analog for more fun and fitness during the weekday rides.

    I think it’s heavier than quoted. Or maybe the pro race and smaller size is massively lighter. Or or or my scale is lying. Definitely feels a lot heavier than the levo expert with a 36 tho.

  225. TBH suspension set up on Demo bikes is pretty much always quite far from my preference.
    Are you sure the Yari was absolutely awful and not just set up badly for you?

    I have mates a few with Yaris (not Ebikes) and whenever I’ve ridden their bikes i’ve not thought OMG that was awful. usually just.. hmm… it”s a bit softer/slower etc. than ideal.

  226. I think it’s heavier than quoted. Or maybe the pro race and smaller size is massively lighter. Or or or my scale is lying. Definitely feels a lot heavier than the levo expert with a 36 tho.

    if the Base Decoy turned up and was 55lb i’d be sending it straight back.

  227. The guys doing the set up had cheat sheets from Fox and RS.
    The first Fox bike was set up with 25% sag front and rear and the suggested damper settings. I thought the front was a bit harsh so requested 30% on the front with 25% on the rear and suggested damper settings for the second demo and it was much better.
    The RS bike was a bit of a problem; RS only supply suggested settings for riders up to 113 kg (I’m 115) and they were significantly higher than I run in my Yaris; RS recommend 140psi whereas I run 105…
    The tech initially set the forks to 140 and it was ridiculously stiff so he kept dropping the pressure until we got to 25% (111psi on the digital gauge). He then set the damping to the recommended settings on the chart which was zero clicks.
    The difference to my Trek was noticeable, even to a cack-handed numpty like me, and was so far away from the magic carpet ride of the CF Pro model it was unreal.
    I’m sure the Yari could have been set up better, but it was still never going to match the Fox Factory forks.
  228. if the Base Decoy turned up and was 55lb i’d be sending it straight back.

    55 sounds like a bit much. Maybe that’s an XL? Coil fron and rear is 1.5lbs and tires is another pound. Should be under 52? Lots of room to shave some off

  229. The guys doing the set up had cheat sheets from Fox and RS.

    Dunno about fox but RS online pressure guide isn’t great. I wouldn’t expect their printed pressure guide to be all that great using it blindly either.
    The Yari is a fairly basic (adjustments) fork though and as such actually has less settings to get wrong than with a Lyrik.

    Did the YT guys get you to ride the fork infront of them as they set it up? or was it just a quick stood still – push – settle measure sag procedure?
    The latter tells you very little about riding support/progression and rebound control. Especially if the YT guy was a lot lighter than you. I’m guessing they wouldn’t have changed tokens at all either?

    I recently set up a Yari for a pretty quick younger rider (Mate’s son racing a SES Enduro) and there’s no way I could have got his set-up as close to optimum pressure as i did just from measuring sag alone. just a few psi can make all the difference with regards to the sweet spot of support/small bump performance/grip

  230. View attachment 14240

    View attachment 14241

    View attachment 14242

    When I hold the bike and weigh us together then subtract my own weight I get 53.4 lbs consistently. But when I balance the bike only on the scale or use my cheap luggage scale I get 53.0 lbs consistently.

    Smashpot it over 400 grams heavier than debonair, I think the avy cart is about 100g heavier than the moco, and the bomber is at least 500g heavier than the delux. The carbon wheel set I’m building should be a little less than 500g lighter than stock. So yea it’ll end up just over 54 lbs with pedals.

    Fwiw I thought the stock suspension was pretty decent on the flow trails I was doing, even in overshoot hard landing situations. I had a yari and RS monarch plus on my last bike for awhile and absolutely hated them. Gonna hit some fast chunky stuff right now. I’m expecting it to be more spikey here.

  231. I’m sure you’ll adapt. Try as I might , all my bikes end up gaining weight. I lead by example maybe :unsure:. Cant seem to get away from coils and extra weight on the tires. 1/4lb off here and there on some parts never quite equals the tires and coils but it is what it is
  232. Well I hear ebiking isn’t a work out and I don’t want to get to fat soo ya guess the extra weight will help me stay strong lol
  233. Did the YT guys get you to ride the fork infront of them as they set it up? or was it just a quick stood still – push – settle measure sag procedure?

    They have set up stations that hold the bike while they set them up and allow the rider to bounce around on them without needing to be a trackstand god.

    I’m guessing they wouldn’t have changed tokens at all either?

    Correct.

  234. They have set up stations that hold the bike while they set them up and allow the rider to bounce around on them without needing to be a trackstand god.

    Yeah. that’s a pretty terrible way to determine anything other than a really vague sag starting point. kinda my point.

  235. And my point is it worked on the Fox sus, not so much on the RS. Same bloke, same procedure. The variable is the suspension. Make of that what you will.
  236. @IATR guess again: there are 4 volume spacers stock in the yari! That’s what the e-sticker on the crown indicates.

    I’ve ridden a good variety of trails including some chunky stuff with big drops and have been super impressed with the stock suspension on the base model. I think most people would be happy with it actually. And like I said before I’ve hated every other yari I’ve tried.

  237. WooHoo!!

    I got a shipment confirmation email for my CF Pro today. Should be here on Friday – so stoked
    Anyone got a picture of the baseline setup chart from the demos?

    Q

  238. WooHoo!!

    I got a shipment confirmation email for my CF Pro today. Should be here on Friday – so stoked
    Anyone got a picture of the baseline setup chart from the demos?

    Q

    Yep! The Pro’s are all shipping a week earlier than was scheduled 😬

    Difficult decision…..cancel the Sunday analogue MTB ride over CutGate (Rob…..you need to test some bikes on that one) or fettle the Decoy!?!?

  239. Yep! The Pro’s are all shipping a week earlier than was scheduled 😬

    Difficult decision…..cancel the Sunday analogue MTB ride over CutGate (Rob…..you need to test some bikes on that one) or fettle the Decoy!?!?

    The last time I did Cut Gate was on a pedal bike and I said never again.
    Now looking forward to doing it this Saturday on the Jam2.
    It’s one heck of a day out.

  240. The last time I did Cut Gate was on a pedal bike and I said never again.
    Now looking forward to doing it this Saturday on the Jam2.
    It’s one heck of a day out.

    ID never done it until about 3 months ago when I hit it up on my Levo. I can understand why it’s such a classic. Been back 4 times since then and it’s blisteringly fast on an ebike.

  241. ID never done it until about 3 months ago when I hit it up on my Levo. I can understand why it’s such a classic. Been back 4 times since then and it’s blisteringly fast on an ebike.

    I did it on my Jam 2 a couple of weeks ago, the sun was shining , it was superb both up and down, I did it early evening when the hikers had retired for the night .😬
    It’s a popular spot on a Saturday for sure 😐

  242. My buddy got his pro yesterday, put it together and battery wouldn’t stay on. Fully charged. Shimano steps on display would turn on and then shut off. He’s pretty bummed, told him not to worry just a minor bug, first batch of a new model. We are waiting for YT customer service to open. I’m pretty sure they will be able to sort it out, will keep you posted.
  243. My buddy got his pro yesterday, put it together and battery wouldn’t stay on. Fully charged. Shimano steps on display would turn on and then shut off. He’s pretty bummed, told him not to worry just a minor bug, first batch of a new model. We are waiting for YT customer service to open. I’m pretty sure they will be able to sort it out, will keep you posted.
  244. @IATR guess again: there are 4 volume spacers stock in the yari! That’s what the e-sticker on the crown indicates.

    I’ve ridden a good variety of trails including some chunky stuff with big drops and have been super impressed with the stock suspension on the base model. I think most people would be happy with it actually. And like I said before I’ve hated every other yari I’ve tried.

    That’s nuts. I’ve ridden a Yari with 3 and 4 before, it felt like it ramped up much quicker than what’s on the Base. :)

  245. That’s nuts. I’ve ridden a Yari with 3 and 4 before, it felt like it ramped up much quicker than what’s on the Base. :)

    I know, right? Never would have tried 4 spacers in a long travel fork. I guess it adds some support to run the moco more open.

    I’m not faffin with it anymore tho [emoji13]

    View attachment 14329

    View attachment 14330

    View attachment 14331

    Feels crazy plush in the shop now. Can’t wait to ride it!

    Fwiw the inside of my yari was dialed: wipers and air spring were nicely greased. It had the new procedure of fluid on top of the air spring (found out when I flung it across the room). And the foam rings were soaked.

  246. My buddy got his pro yesterday, put it together and battery wouldn’t stay on. Fully charged. Shimano steps on display would turn on and then shut off. He’s pretty bummed, told him not to worry just a minor bug, first batch of a new model. We are waiting for YT customer service to open. I’m pretty sure they will be able to sort it out, will keep you posted.

    UPDATE: Over the phone techs could not figure out the problem. They tried, going to take it to local authorized Shimano Tech to put it on the computer to try to figure it out. Hopefully they can sort it out, as next step is to send it back.

    UPDATE: Local Shimano tech was able to sort out the problem. Brake rotors were a little out of true. $100 charge rotor truing included. Should get reimbursed with no problem from YT.

  247. Mine just showed up today – confirmed with Fox 36 GRIP2 damper. Battery is on the charger while the rest gets put together. Might need a shorter dropper and I’ll see if I need the lower rise bars I had already purchase. Now hurry up and charge already…..

    Q

  248. Mine arrived Friday (Pro).

    Q-Ball . They included a lower headset spacer/cover in the box so you could lower the bars approx 5mm with that.

    First Impressions.
    1. Pedal with motor off or above 25k with no noticeable drag. There was some drag on a 12 month old Vitus I rode so it might be an updated motor.

    2. Motor noise the same a a Kenevo I rode 9 months ago, this was the older Brose I think. Perfectly acceptable.

    3. Transition from drive to off at 25k very smooth both speeding up and slowing down. I suspect a sw update from Shimano has improved this since last year. Again as good if not better than the Older Brose.

    4. Packing great as per my Jefsy. Slight delay in shipping (2 weeks) so they gave me a small refund without any comment from me.

    5. I may have a battery connection issue , will keep you guys updated on it.

    I have not had chance to rise it on my main trails (Innerleithen) as I am just recovering from a broken collarbone and taking it a bit easy.

  249. UPDATE: Over the phone techs could not figure out the problem. They tried, going to take it to local authorized Shimano Tech to put it on the computer to try to figure it out. Hopefully they can sort it out, as next step is to send it back.

    UPDATE: Local Shimano tech was able to sort out the problem. Brake rotors were a little out of true. $100 charge rotor truing included. Should get reimbursed with no problem from YT.

    I think I may have a similar Battery connection issue. Posted report so will see tommorow what they say.

  250. It does not sound too good that they have problems and they were just removed from the box! That gives me the thought of the fast with which they packed everything! I understand that there may be problems along the way, but the fact that you get it out of the box and it does not work ….. is not good!
    Next week I will make a decision if she keeps your order or not!
  251. It does not sound too good that they have problems and they were just removed from the box! That gives me the thought of the fast with which they packed everything! I understand that there may be problems along the way, but the fact that you get it out of the box and it does not work ….. is not good!
    Next week I will make a decision if she keeps your order or not!

    The packing was great on my bike and it worked first ride out of box. The biggest hassle with YT bikes is having to swap the brakes over :)

  252. Ya mine was fine really well sorted out of the box. The rotors needed a bit of trying but that only took me 2 min and is standard with new rotors of any kind.
  253. Do you even physics bro? The forks act as a lever, the longer the lever the higher the force exerted. The kind of impact that will break a frame is likely to happen at full extension so a 170 fork will exert more force than a 160 fork.

    I am a professional engineer and built race bikes and cars. My point is that the change in leverage ratio is so small that given design safety tolerances it will not be an issue. Axle to crown is approx 560mm so adding 10mm (less accounting for sag) the leverage increases only approx 1.5% !

    Now tell me you engineering / physics background 😉

  254. I think I may have a similar Battery connection issue. Posted report so will see tomorrow what they say.

    I have cleaned the battery terminals with degreaser and just done a 2 hour ride with no problems. Going to keep an eye on it but my issue may have been a bit of protective grease on a terminal.

  255. New CF Pro got a quick 1-hr blast around the local area Sat and then a 5-hr (was with acoustic bike riders), 24 mile ride yesterday without any issues. Everything has been pretty good out of the box with only minor rotor tuning and headset adjustments needed. I can’t believe how much braking traction the rear end has now with the 2.8 tire on it. So different than my normal bikes.
    Did those of you that got eThirteen equipped wheels also get tubless valves too? They came with my Jeffsy from last year but I didn’t find them in my Decoy packaging – just wondering …

    Q

  256. Did anyone get the ‘Me First’ Tool Box delivered at the same time as the bike?

    I excitedly tracked my order all the way through todays 93 drops before your package arrives….and got handed the Tool Chest 😳

    DHL driver said ‘that’s all you get!’ 😂👌🏼

    Quick comms with YT and the Pro is being expedited for delivery tomorrow. This might be the first machine I have ever read the manual on….as I have nothing else to do tonight now.

    But I am loving the carbon ‘effect’ torque wrench 🤣

  257. Jordie Lunn show as hell isn’t running 160mm on his decoy.

    View attachment 14464

    Using the 230 mm shock eye to eye for scale I got 160 mm of exposed station. I think it might be a good idea to run at least 170 tho cuz I’m getting a ton of pedal/frame impacts even in high (might be a little under-sprung).

  258. Did anyone get the ‘Me First’ Tool Box delivered at the same time as the bike?

    I excitedly tracked my order all the way through todays 93 drops before your package arrives….and got handed the Tool Chest [emoji15]

    DHL driver said ‘that’s all you get!’ [emoji23][emoji1362]

    Quick comms with YT and the Pro is being expedited for delivery tomorrow. This might be the first machine I have ever read the manual on….as I have nothing else to do tonight now.

    But I am loving the carbon ‘effect’ torque wrench [emoji1787]

    The tool kit showed up with the bike for me. That torque wrench is hilarious! I love the pedal wrench tho.

  259. The tool kit showed up with the bike for me. That torque wrench is hilarious! I love the pedal wrench tho.

    Yeah Nick, the pedal wrench is a worthy inclusion. Nice bit of kit.

    It ought to be though, mine has cost £1500 based on what I’ve received so far 😂

  260. Did anyone get the ‘Me First’ Tool Box delivered at the same time as the bike?

    I excitedly tracked my order all the way through todays 93 drops before your package arrives….and got handed the Tool Chest 😳

    DHL driver said ‘that’s all you get!’ 😂👌🏼

    Quick comms with YT and the Pro is being expedited for delivery tomorrow. This might be the first machine I have ever read the manual on….as I have nothing else to do tonight now.

    But I am loving the carbon ‘effect’ torque wrench 🤣

    I got the manuals the day before the bike :)

  261. New CF Pro got a quick 1-hr blast around the local area Sat and then a 5-hr (was with acoustic bike riders), 24 mile ride yesterday without any issues. Everything has been pretty good out of the box with only minor rotor tuning and headset adjustments needed. I can’t believe how much braking traction the rear end has now with the 2.8 tire on it. So different than my normal bikes.
    Did those of you that got eThirteen equipped wheels also get tubless valves too? They came with my Jeffsy from last year but I didn’t find them in my Decoy packaging – just wondering …

    Q

    No valves with mine . I looked as I also got them with my Jeffsy.

  262. I have cleaned the battery terminals with degreaser and just done a 2 hour ride with no problems. Going to keep an eye on it but my issue may have been a bit of protective grease on a terminal.

    Nope. Back to e20 battery connection faults 🙁

  263. Lee – keep us all posted on the fault. We can at least keep ahead of common issues and remedies.

    My Stealth XL Pro landed. Built, charged, connected and currently getting some tuning to me.

    I’m 5’11” and the dropper looks like it will be about 2” out of the seat tube for my perfect leg stretch. Reach and overall feel is really close to the L Spectral AL6.0. Apart from the Decoy being a smidge heavier 😌

    First impression? Oh My God!

    I can see me needing a few trips to casualty. Is there anything this bike doesn’t want to ride over or drop off?

    Shimano Motor also very, very quiet. It’s been rainy and muddy, so I reserve my final opinion, but I have definitely ridden Brose motored Spesh bikes that were noisier. Interesting to know how YT and Shimano have managed this. I’ve read a lot about whiny Shimano motors.

  264. Jedipip, how far out (and what length) is the dropper on your Spectral? I’m a similar height to you and on my Spectral with a 150mm reverb my post is almost in as far as it’ll go. I’ve changed my decoy from an XL to an L but I am wondering if an L will be on the small size compared to my L spectral
  265. Shimano Motor also very, very quiet. It’s been rainy and muddy, so I reserve my final opinion, but I have definitely ridden Brose motored Spesh bikes that were noisier. Interesting to know how YT and Shimano have managed this. I’ve read a lot about whiny Shimano motors.

    It’s the same on my Meta Power, after all the comments I was prepared for the worst but the noise of my tyres drowns out the relatively quiet motor. Hopefully it stays this way.

  266. Jedipip, how far out (and what length) is the dropper on your Spectral? I’m a similar height to you and on my Spectral with a 150mm reverb my post is almost in as far as it’ll go. I’ve changed my decoy from an XL to an L but I am wondering if an L will be on the small size compared to my L spectral

    James! The Large Decoy will probably be fine, but check the difference in Reach and the Top Tube against the Spectral. It’ll feel a little cramped in comparison. I took Rob’s comment about the XXL he rode into consideration. Went for the XL based on the dimensions being 10-15mm within the Spectral L range. It’s perfect. 5’11” is right in the tricky zone between Sizes. So you’ll be fine with L.

    Pic of Spectral that destroyed my CutGate PB’s at the weekend. Seat post is out about 1 inch.

    For what it’s worth, you won’t thank me straight away! I’d be tempted to try the XL Decoy. You can ALWAYS send it back and then get a Large….!

    Or……see how you feel on the Large. You will get used to either bike.

    There, that’s me sitting firmly on the fence 😂

    View attachment 14530

    View attachment 14531

  267. I saw elsewhere that a Decoy was listed by an owner as 55lbs. RTR. Just checking here as I thought that sounded a bit on the high side if anyone had posted any weights but I don’t see any?
  268. Quite possible, it was on empty beer. I knew there was a bunch of chatter here so I thought there would be other confirmations. Just sounded a tad porky to me but I’m sure it can be ridden hard once you get used to it.
  269. Decoy on the way back to YT. I think it is a battery problem (new design ?) but they would not send out a battery for me to try and asked for the bike to check in there workshops.
  270. Decoy on the way back to YT. I think it is a battery problem (new design ?) but they would not send out a battery for me to try and asked for the bike to check in there workshops.

    Lee can you bullet point what happened?

  271. Lee can you bullet point what happened?

    Yep here goes.
    -Bike worked out of box 1st day 20k ride.
    – 2nd day bike would not switch on , stuck at steps screen (or turn off !)
    – Removing battery for a couple of mins (capacitor discharge ? ) and it booted up.
    – Clean battery terminals and all seemed to work.
    – Did 25k ride and when I stopped to look at view — BEEP Error 20 (battery to motor connection issue).
    -Emailed YT . They said send back or take to local Shimano Center
    – I took it to the Shimano center and they checked the motor, wiring and display. Still would not boot every time and when on short ride gave E20. They thought is must be the battery.
    – YT asked for the bike back to check over . So it left here Monday.

    I think that it may be a teething problem with the new YT specific battery (540wh). A bit of a pain but you always take a punt on new products and overall I like the bike.

    My wife even rode it for a short run (to big for her really) and came back grinning. A few days later she bought a small Canyon Neuron (27.5 wheels) so hopefully my Decoy will get back about the same time her bike arrives. I don’t fancy chasing her on my Jeffsy :)

    Hope this helps , will update when new info arrives.

  272. Yep here goes.
    -Bike worked out of box 1st day 20k ride.
    – 2nd day bike would not switch on , stuck at steps screen (or turn off !)
    – Removing battery for a couple of mins (capacitor discharge ? ) and it booted up.
    – Clean battery terminals and all seemed to work.
    – Did 25k ride and when I stopped to look at view — BEEP Error 20 (battery to motor connection issue).
    -Emailed YT . They said send back or take to local Shimano Center
    – I took it to the Shimano center and they checked the motor, wiring and display. Still would not boot every time and when on short ride gave E20. They thought is must be the battery.
    – YT asked for the bike back to check over . So it left here Monday.

    I think that it may be a teething problem with the new YT specific battery (540wh). A bit of a pain but you always take a punt on new products and overall I like the bike.

    My wife even rode it for a short run (to big for her really) and came back grinning. A few days later she bought a small Canyon Neuron (27.5 wheels) so hopefully my Decoy will get back about the same time her bike arrives. I don’t fancy chasing her on my Jeffsy :)

    Hope this helps , will update when new info arrives.

  273. Yep here goes.
    -Bike worked out of box 1st day 20k ride.
    – 2nd day bike would not switch on , stuck at steps screen (or turn off !)
    – Removing battery for a couple of mins (capacitor discharge ? ) and it booted up.
    – Clean battery terminals and all seemed to work.
    – Did 25k ride and when I stopped to look at view — BEEP Error 20 (battery to motor connection issue).
    -Emailed YT . They said send back or take to local Shimano Center
    – I took it to the Shimano center and they checked the motor, wiring and display. Still would not boot every time and when on short ride gave E20. They thought is must be the battery.
    – YT asked for the bike back to check over . So it left here Monday.

    I think that it may be a teething problem with the new YT specific battery (540wh). A bit of a pain but you always take a punt on new products and overall I like the bike.

    My wife even rode it for a short run (to big for her really) and came back grinning. A few days later she bought a small Canyon Neuron (27.5 wheels) so hopefully my Decoy will get back about the same time her bike arrives. I don’t fancy chasing her on my Jeffsy :)

    Hope this helps , will update when new info arrives.

    Thanks Lee – be interesting to hear how the process goes. Hope you get sorted soon.

  274. Cheers Lee

    Freezing on the steps boot up screen – so the logo just stays there and the bike is in effect bricked?

    The usual take it apart and rebuild/recharge partially worked? But led to the E20 code. Sounds like something a few of us can look forward to then. Let’s hope the software on the battery/motor gets a suitable patch.

    Mine is going to get some hammer once the sea levels have subsided and land appears again. If I get a sniff of something similar I’ll let you know. I’ll get in touch so I can quote your order number to tie up the issue. I doubt very much that it will be an isolated issue.
    The joys of tech!

    Did you send all the bike back? Wheels too?

  275. For those guys who have received and ridden their bikes, how is the battery performance working out? What sort of altitude and range are you getting?
    Do you feel you are getting the enhanced range & performance Rob found in his review over other Shimano equipped bikes?
  276. Hey Young Talent,
    Thank you for choosing a YT-Bike.
    We are truly sorry, but we have to inform you that we cannot ship your bike on time.
    Unfortunately, one of our suppliers could not deliver an elementary component, which led us to not being able to assemble your bike as planned. As a consequence, we were not able to dispatch your bike as previously announced.
    Your bike will be assembled and shipped within calendar week 26.
    To compensate for the delay, we offer you the Bikebox for free.
    If you have already paid your order, we will refund the already paid amount in the same way as your payment was received by us.
    We are very sorry for the delay and kindly ask for your understanding.
    Best regards,
    Your YT Service-Team

    Phone
    Mail
    Web

    [email protected]
    https://www.yt-industries.com

    ,
    ,

    Odd.. That you’re getting delivery for free and I’m being offered the box :unsure:

  277. For those guys who have received and ridden their bikes, how is the battery performance working out? What sort of altitude and range are you getting?
    Do you feel you are getting the enhanced range & performance Rob found in his review over other Shimano equipped bikes?

    Ecky

    Yes! Mine looks like being well capable of exceeding what these big Enduro/downhill focused bikes typically achieve.

    40miles of range using all three settings and still perhaps 20% battery.

    Altitude hasn’t really been my focus, I’m still getting some trust in it, learning it’s quirks and when I get the feeling it’s reliable then it’s going up Snowdon.

    But I would say the 540 battery has a real world advantage that is greater than the extra 36wh would suggest, over the standard 504 Shimano unit. The 700wh would seemingly exceed all expectations based on the subjective feeling from my miles to date.

    These new cells seem to be the current ‘thing to have’.

  278. Odd.. That you’re getting delivery for free and I’m being offered the box :unsure:

    Maybe they’ve now run out of boxes?

    Imagine being YT. In many ways this is a nice problem to have but only if you can resolve relatively quick so that you don’t burn your customers.

    Still, I’d have more patience with them than some of the bigger manufacturers like Specialized. It’s important to support the small companies.

  279. These new cells seem to current ‘thing to have’.

    I think you are right with the larger cells making the difference. Less stress under discharge leading to fewer parasitic losses.
    A buddy has a 700wh equipped Levo and it seems to use way less comparative capacity than the rest of us on 400/500wh packs on the same rides.

  280. At least we’ll be able to have a look at the new Bosch motor equipped bikes announced after the curfew lift next week…….
  281. I think you are right with the larger cells making the difference. Less stress under discharge leading to fewer parasitic losses.
    A buddy has a 700wh equipped Levo and it seems to use way less comparative capacity than the rest of us on 400/500wh packs on the same rides.

    I’m finding I will climb back up and session a bit of trail and climb a little faster because there is less anxiety range. It’s early days and I’m wary of being confirmation biased (I’m £5k into wanting this to be the right decision!).

    It would be good to hear from a Spesh rider who has spent a few hours burning a YT battery out if they had a view. Perhaps it’s one for Rob to do an update on 😉

    These cells are certainly going to improve range on new bikes.

  282. Has anyone who went to the demo days and got a shipping voucher had their order delayed?

    Hence the free shipping 😉

    Pay £60 and get it when you should or get it free and go to the back of the queue?

    That’s not YT’s style. Surely?

  283. Ecky

    Yes! Mine looks like being well capable of exceeding what these big Enduro/downhill focused bikes typically achieve.

    40miles of range using all three settings and still perhaps 20% battery.

    Altitude hasn’t really been my focus, I’m still getting some trust in it, learning it’s quirks and when I get the feeling it’s reliable then it’s going up Snowdon.

    But I would say the 540 battery has a real world advantage that is greater than the extra 36wh would suggest, over the standard 504 Shimano unit. The 700wh would seemingly exceed all expectations based on the subjective feeling from my miles to date.

    These new cells seem to current ‘thing to have’.

    sorry dude but 40 miles means absolutely nothing without context.

    for something usefully comparable we’d really your weight.
    terrain / conditions
    elevation
    modes
    climbing speed

    I can empty a 504wh E8000 battery in 10 miles easily (steep climbing in poor conditions in boost/trail) but I can also eek out 45 miles from the same battery depending on where/how I ride.
    Generally I can’t get a lot more than 4700-5500 ft of climbing out of the battery if the bike is on for every climb. (stready climbing in lower modes in good conditions). More often than not (using all modes and climbing at a decent pace) it’ll only last for 4500ish ft

  284. sorry dude but 40 miles means absolutely nothing without context.

    for something usefully comparable we’d really your weight.
    terrain / conditions
    elevation
    modes
    climbing speed

    I can empty a 504wh E8000 battery in 10 miles easily (steep climbing in poor conditions in boost/trail) but I can also eek out 45 miles from the same battery depending on where/how I ride.
    Generally I can’t get a lot more than 4700-5500 ft of climbing out of the battery if the bike is on for every climb. (stready climbing in lower modes in good conditions). More often than not (using all modes and climbing at a decent pace) it’ll only last for 4500ish ft

    Yeah Gary….you’ll note I included the word ‘subjective’ in there.

    And I stand by it, subjectively the battery is awesome, way more power, loads more life, charges real quick. Couldn’t be happier. When YT send me the 700wh version I bet that, subjectively, it’ll feel twice as good to me.

    Objectively? I can’t be arsed to do the maths.
    It’s just better than anyone else’s right? Like my mum’s Shepherd Pie.

  285. I have no allegiance to any company

    I’m not suggesting you do. I am saying that YT appear to be enthusiasts trying to make a successful step into this area and that might warrant a little leeway.

  286. Hence the free shipping 😉

    Pay £60 and get it when you should or get it free and go to the back of the queue?

    That’s not YT’s style. Surely?

    That’s not what I was implying. Merely wondering what they’ll offer if you already have a free box and free shipping.

  287. The same mail I received today, the bicycle will be sent to 26th week, although it had to be delivered on 22 May. In my order I now show that I have the free shipping and the box, but the money has not yet entered the credit card.
  288. I have a small battery range anecdote. I rode with a friend in a mix of boost and trail. I didn’t use any battery saving techniques. My friend and I paced with each other. I ran out of juice about 2 km from the car, his trek powerfly did not.

    View attachment 14944

    I’ve noticed it takes a long time for the first bar to drop off the battery indicator. But the last two bars go really fast. It has given me a false sense of range and has led me to run out of power on other rides.

  289. There are way too many variables going on in the mix here. I can’t see how anyone can draw any conclusions.

    To compare you need lab conditions.

  290. I dunno, I think Nasty Nick’s comparison is probably more valid in the real world than a lab test.
    It does kind of fly in the face of other reports particularly from the launch.
    A conspiracy theorist might wonder if the press launch bikes were fitted with the upcoming 700wh packs…….
  291. People might think I’m a hater, but I’m not, I really like the bike. I’ve just found the battery and weight to be a little disappointing as they’re not as good as advertised, in my experience.
  292. The Decoy battery is probably a 30 cell using 21700 5000mAh cells. That’s the only way I get to 540Wh. Weight is about 70g for these cells. A 700 or 720 Wh battery is 40 cells, so the weight difference should be about 700g.

    As far as I know, 5000mAh is the biggest 21700 cell currently available.

  293. The 700Wh would still weigh more regardless…

    Really?
    The following as an example are all 21700 cells from Samsung.

    30T 3000mah 68.2g
    33J 3270mah 68.9g
    40T 4000mah 66.8g
    48G 4000mah 67.4g
    50E 5000mah 68.7g

    Cell weights has more to do with charge/discharge rate than capacity.

  294. The Decoy battery is probably a 30 cell using 21700 5000mAh cells. That’s the only way I get to 540Wh. Weight is about 70g for these cells. A 700 or 720 Wh battery is 40 cells, so the weight difference should be about 700g.

    As far as I know, 5000mAh is the biggest 21700 cell currently available.

    Odd the larger pack isn’t available from launch if the plan is just to add an additional 10 cells of the same type.

  295. Odd the larger pack isn’t available from launch if the plan is just to add an additional 10 cells of the same type.

    Yeah, not sure why they’re delaying the 700Wh pack. Could be they can’t get hold of enough cells. I guess the bike looks better with a 30 cell battery, that might be a factor.

    In 2015/2016 the 18650 cells reached 3500mAh. That’s an energy density of about 250Wh/kg. In 2018/2019 we got the 18650 3600mah and the 21700 5000mah with ~260Wh/kg. To make a 700Wh battery with 30 cells, we need 6500mAh cells. That’s an increase of 30%. I guess that would be about 320Wh/kg. That’s a huge increase compared to the progress made the last 4 tears. I havent heard of any big breakthroughs in battery tech that would allow this kind of density, so I don’t think a 700Wh 30 cell 21700 battery is possible atm.

  296. My thoughts are the pack is currently 40 cells. Something around 3750’s would give 540wh. The delay for the bigger pack might be in securing sufficient quantities of higher capacity cells of sufficient C rating.
    Why engineer two different packs when you can get away with one.
    40cells would approximately weight 2760g which would fit in with the total pack weight of 3170g.
  297. You’ve got nearly 60Wh more than your buddy. He must be a more efficient pedaller.

    or he’s lighter. or has less draggy tyres. or used lower asistance levels.
    Just the fact he has a different motor means the comparisson is a fairly pointless one.

  298. So showing signs of not being as efficient as the existing competition then??

    Ecky….quite the opposite.

    My experience to date is that Rob was quite correct. The battery and motor combo is certainly looking better than the competition.

    20 miles today. Mostly in eco (which is a little too powerful if I’m honest) and a range of 68 miles on it when I got home. 1 bar down. 4 to go.

    That’s a 13.5 stone bloke riding in muddy conditions and climbing 2500ft.

    Plenty of trail and boost in there to ease the grind.

    Do I wish I’d got the Levo/Kenevo?

    Nope, not yet.

  299. Well I’m not sure how this stacks up but I came back from a 25-26 mile ride with 4600 ft climbing (mostly dirt) in a mix of Eco and Trail modes. Came back with 2 bars still showing with the stock tires and a 188lb rider. My buddy on a Focus Jam2 with the 2 battery system came back with 3 bars left on his 2nd battery. I’ve just changed the chain ring to a stainless 32t in order to help with the cadence when climbing the long steep sections of Mt. Diablo in California. We’ll see what that does to range.

    One item I’d like to ask folks with delivered bike: Are you having issues with the frame grommets staying in place where the cables comes through? Mine keep moving about and I’ve got a few ideas that require small cable ties to try and solve this.

  300. View attachment 15057

    The bike comes with these little rubber sleeves on the hoses. They don’t really fit into the frame cause there’s not much room and when you try to jam them into the hole they just kind of squish everywhere. Mine migrate all over, because I never really got them deep into the frame. Not sure if they’d stay in place if you manage to get the ribbed portion into the frame hole.
  301. Ahh, id try and twist them in there? Wow, the cables look really long, I really cant stand extra cable!
  302. Yea the cables are ridiculous! That pic was straight out of the box. I’ve heard YT is usually very precise about cable lengths but they’re clearly uncut. It was double frustrating they didn’t include hardware to shorten them. I ended up spending $20 for it so I could shorten them at home. But I’m sure you could argue with YT to pay your lbs to do it.

    It’s funny I think they left the dropper and shifter cables extra long to match the brake cables so they could use the stupid double sided clips.

  303. I’m on my 3rd day with my new Pro Race Decoy L. Kind of a novice (E)MTB rider with some motocross experience. 1st to order in US and happy to finally have it here in FL. Setup was smooth. Bike is perfect except for the seat; very hard. Put old Spec seat on for now.

    Firmware on 8000 and 7000 one rev old. Power is great. Changed the 60%,90%,300% to
    60%, 110% and 200% with Etube app over BT. Steps Unlocker connected fine too to check status.

    Put about 20mi on so far on mostly grassy flat rooty park trails. Mostly in Trail, but fun to hit Boost sometimes.

    One gash in the new pedal when I smashed into a curb. Need more practice !! I’m 62 so still have a little time left.

  304. May I ask when your original ship date was? You were the first, wow. Glad you’re enjoying it, the keep delaying mine.
  305. May I ask when your original ship date was? You were the first, wow. Glad you’re enjoying it, the keep delaying mine.
  306. Hi Gutch, Orig ship date was May 15.

    Every "good bike" I wanted seemed to take a long time. Understand delays, but would have been good to be notified when past due dates; especially when they have my $7200 for months. I guess if I ran YT, prepaid orders would get notified of delays and status.

    I would also fix the size table so the cm and inch conversion were correct. The ranges are up to YT but the conversion is not.

    Love the bike….worth the wait…just stressful not knowing anything.

  307. Well I’m not sure how this stacks up but I came back from a 25-26 mile ride with 4600 ft climbing (mostly dirt) in a mix of Eco and Trail modes. Came back with 2 bars still showing with the stock tires and a 188lb rider. My buddy on a Focus Jam2 with the 2 battery system came back with 3 bars left on his 2nd battery. I’ve just changed the chain ring to a stainless 32t in order to help with the cadence when climbing the long steep sections of Mt. Diablo in California. We’ll see what that does to range.

    One item I’d like to ask folks with delivered bike: Are you having issues with the frame grommets staying in place where the cables comes through? Mine keep moving about and I’ve got a few ideas that require small cable ties to try and solve this.

    What doesn’t stack up for me is how your buddy managed to get only 26 miles, and a bit of climbing, out of almost two batteries on his Focus.

  308. Can anyone share their shock psi setup on the Fox X2? Mine is still a few weeks away. I’m curious if this bike requires the extraordinarily high shock pressure like the capra 29. I’m a big lad and I could never get my sag close on that bike without exceeding the shock’s upper limit.
  309. Yes same little issue with these grommets. If you solve this please post some picture.

    Well I’m not sure how this stacks up but I came back from a 25-26 mile ride with 4600 ft climbing (mostly dirt) in a mix of Eco and Trail modes. Came back with 2 bars still showing with the stock tires and a 188lb rider. My buddy on a Focus Jam2 with the 2 battery system came back with 3 bars left on his 2nd battery. I’ve just changed the chain ring to a stainless 32t in order to help with the cadence when climbing the long steep sections of Mt. Diablo in California. We’ll see what that does to range.

    One item I’d like to ask folks with delivered bike: Are you having issues with the frame grommets staying in place where the cables comes through? Mine keep moving about and I’ve got a few ideas that require small cable ties to try and solve this.

    Yep, I found a good wiggle, ideally when wet, whilst moving the cable a bit helps embed them further (a few of the ribbed parts at least).

    To be fair though with the frame design and direct access to all cable runs……their water tightness isn’t a real concern, just avoiding the cable rub will do.

  310. Peaky –

    "What doesn’t stack up for me is how your buddy managed to get only 26 miles, and a bit of climbing, out of almost two batteries on his Focus."

    He’s a bit heavier than I and the batteries for the Jam are I think 370Wh batteries. Maybe it’s the difference between a really fresh, newer tech pack vs. older, cycled cells on a pretty hot day? He also keeps his batteries fully charged all the time and I’m not fully convinced that’s the best method to get the best out of the packs.

    I know this is hotly debated and from a convenience and ‘we want to sell you a new battery every year’ perspective, that’s preferred. I come at this from the R/C hobby end of things when it comes to batteries and the care and feeding of Li-Po packs that have a higher energy density than Li-Ion – constantly storing at full charge is not the route for longevity and performance. Look at it this way – the batteries for your cell, tablet, camera, drill, & bike didn’t come fully charged and that’s intended as long term storage condition. They come shipped somewhere between 55-70% capacity so that the insulation layers between the + & – regions aren’t highly stressed over time. It takes more planning and I’m probably going to screw myself at some point but that’s how I’ll operate until I see data that points to a different method of care and feeding.

    Q

  311. Camstyn:

    "Can anyone share their shock psi setup on the Fox X2? Mine is still a few weeks away. I’m curious if this bike requires the extraordinarily high shock pressure like the capra 29. I’m a big lad and I could never get my sag close on that bike without exceeding the shock’s upper limit."

    I’m about 205 fully geared up with everything in my pack – I’m running about 230 – 235 in my CF Pro and while that gets the sag number to about 25-28%, it feels softer than that. Having said that, it has unreal climbing traction in all sorts of loose, marbley, or techy stuff and I seem to be fairly even on the amount of travel ‘used’ at both ends. I think I’m just not accustomed to the plush ride as I’ve always associated that with poor pedaling efficiency. What’s weird is that the motor certainly helps to make up for it but the steeper seat tube also seems to negate that sloggy feel when climbing because your more over the cranks. It seems to be the trend these days.

    Q

  312. That’s great, thanks. That’s with the DPX2? They typically require considerably higher pressure than the X2.

    I’ve got the Pro Race on order which comes with the X2. This shock had a 250psi limit for 2018 and with the Capra 29’s extremely progressive setup it really limited the bike to anyone much over 200lbs. I ended up getting the Capra 27.5 for this reason, as the shock psi to rider lbs was pretty much pound for pound.

  313. I finally got my coil spring rate right and the rest of my suspension dialed and it made a huge difference! I had to go above the tuners’ spring rate recommendations. It’s not as plush but it responds a lot better to my pump and jumping efforts. Feels a lot more like a normal enduro bike. Also finding the grip through the corners in the loose over hard is a lot better than a non motorized bike, insane speed you can slap turns with.
  314. I finally got my coil spring rate right and the rest of my suspension dialed and it made a huge difference! I had to go above the tuners’ spring rate recommendations. It’s not as plush but it responds a lot better to my pump and jumping efforts. Feels a lot more like a normal enduro bike. Also finding the grip through the corners in the loose over hard is a lot better than a non motorized bike, insane speed you can slap turns with.

    What spring rate did you settle on and what do you weigh?

  315. What spring rate did you settle on and what do you weigh?

    I’m 175 pounds. Bike specs are:
    – Large decoy base model
    – 160mm travel Yari with Avalanche damper and Vorsprung Smashpot with a 55 lbs/in spring and minimum preload
    – Avalanche tuned Bomber CR shock with 450 lbs/in spring and 2 turns of preload

    I’m running pretty open LSC and roughly 3/4 closed LSR.

    Still need to take it to the bike park to try some proper lips and drops, but I was hitting some chest high jumps at over 30 mph and the bike felt amazing. Also did a 14 vertical foot step down resulting in a pillowy soft landing. There’s a little more feedback on the small stuff, but the responsiveness to slapping and brapping is sweet.

  316. I’m 175 pounds. Bike specs are:
    – Large decoy base model
    – 160mm travel Yari with Avalanche damper and Vorsprung Smashpot with a 55 lbs/in spring and minimum preload
    – Avalanche tuned Bomber CR shock with 450 lbs/in spring and 2 turns of preload

    I’m running pretty open LSC and roughly 3/4 closed LSR.

    Still need to take it to the bike park to try some proper lips and drops, but I was hitting some chest high jumps at over 30 mph and the bike felt amazing. Also did a 14 vertical foot step down resulting in a pillowy soft landing. There’s a little more feedback on the small stuff, but the responsiveness to slapping and brapping is sweet.

    Been wondering how it was working out, especially that smashpot. Is it possible to adjust the travel without having to buy another smashpot?
    With the bomber, is it sprung for recommended sag? Wouldn’t the attraction of a coil be their ability to eat up the small braking bumps

  317. I’m 175 pounds. Bike specs are:
    – Large decoy base model
    – 160mm travel Yari with Avalanche damper and Vorsprung Smashpot with a 55 lbs/in spring and minimum preload
    – Avalanche tuned Bomber CR shock with 450 lbs/in spring and 2 turns of preload

    I’m running pretty open LSC and roughly 3/4 closed LSR.

    Still need to take it to the bike park to try some proper lips and drops, but I was hitting some chest high jumps at over 30 mph and the bike felt amazing. Also did a 14 vertical foot step down resulting in a pillowy soft landing. There’s a little more feedback on the small stuff, but the responsiveness to slapping and brapping is sweet.

    What was the landing site like ? To flat would be impressive but otherwise …

  318. The smashpot travel adjustment is super simple, but the spring rate recommendation changes. I’m limited to 160mm on the avalanche tho (they come in travel ranges 180-170, 160-150, etc).

    The tuner recommended a 400 lbs/in spring for the bomber, that netted 31% sag. The 450 lbs/in nets 25%. But I basically tuned it for bottom out. Even with a fair amount of preload I’d slightly bottom the 400 on my biggest local drop. With the 450 I’ll have to case something hard to bottom out. I think the over spring coil is still far more supple than most air shocks. The manitou Mara looks to be a very plush air shock. But the biggest reason I went full coil on this bike is maintenance. I figured since it’ll be doing a lot more miles than my pedal bikes ever did I’d rather not have to air spring/can servicing all the time.

  319. That makes sense. I’m a similar weight and bounced between 400 and 450 lb spring and went with the 450 for those reasons. Still better through the stutter bumps than an air shock. Before I sold that bike I was considering a 425 from SAR(super alloy racing). I had ordered the 450 originally to be safe after bottoming the 400 ten many times.
    Must be a fun ride. You’ve got a very capable setup. Surprised we dont hear more people on Avalanche carts , especially with all the custom outfits out there now. They’ve been at it a long time. Pretty low key company I guess, not much social presence
  320. I’m 175 pounds. Bike specs are:
    – Large decoy base model
    – 160mm travel Yari with Avalanche damper and Vorsprung Smashpot with a 55 lbs/in spring and minimum preload
    – Avalanche tuned Bomber CR shock with 450 lbs/in spring and 2 turns of preload

    I’m running pretty open LSC and roughly 3/4 closed LSR.

    Still need to take it to the bike park to try some proper lips and drops, but I was hitting some chest high jumps at over 30 mph and the bike felt amazing. Also did a 14 vertical foot step down resulting in a pillowy soft landing. There’s a little more feedback on the small stuff, but the responsiveness to slapping and brapping is sweet.

    What was the landing site like ? To flat would be impressive but otherwise …

    Really long and flat-ish. The tires probably clear about 35 feet horizontally and at least 14 foot vertically. My point is more that by going with more spring rate than recommended I got more support for my style riding. It cost me some compliance on small hits but big hits are still plush.

  321. Such a good looking bike..I’d be tempted at the 700wh option when that drops!!

    Jonny. Trust me, I’m 200 miles into my Decoy Pro. The 540 battery will surprise you.

    It’s easily capable of monster rides. Your riding style and it’s no-drag after the limiter feel means you could easily get 60-70 miles on a battery if you needed to. It’s also entirely capable of being pedalled home with a flat battery. I’m looking at a 100 mile ride across the Pennines in a week or two….it’s doable.

    Spoil yourself!

  322. Im off on the Coast 2 Coast ride this Sunday :)

    We are taking in the Penine way on that ride also 🤘🤘

    I think the 700wh battery on that bike could be amazing.

  323. How many guys in the US have received their bikes. How close was it to the original delivery date? I have a date of 8/7 and just wondering when will it actually be here. 8/14 through 8/21, or after 9/7, I hope not 10/7?????
  324. Thanks for the reply,
    Have you had any issues? What are your thoughts on the bike?

    Ha. Can’t tell you anything yet as I’m travelling and the bike arrived two days after my departure :mad:.
    It is still waiting for me to unpack.

  325. issues so far with my CF pro black.

    1. the cable pods falling out all the time
    2. there is a loud repeating backlash clunk in the shimano motor when there is no force on the motor (downhill) its annoyingly loud.
    3. the toptube acts like a mirror, black glossy, distracting in sunshine and very prone to scratches (wraping it in vinyl)
    4. compared with my non ebikes (speci enduro, yt capra) the chainstays and the motormount feel kind of squishy under full load. I think thats related to the much higher torque with a motor.
    5. battery lid is kind of sticking out a bit, gap is filled with some foamrubber, does not look really professional.

    other than that its a monster! holy cow… this thing rips, grip is outstanding and it handles like my 2016 capra cf pro race. the fork has grip2 and it feels great.

  326. issues so far with my CF pro black.

    1. the cable pods falling out all the time
    2. there is a loud repeating backlash clunk in the shimano motor when there is no force on the motor (downhill) its annoyingly loud.
    3. the toptube acts like a mirror, black glossy, distracting in sunshine and very prone to scratches (wraping it in vinyl)
    4. compared with my non ebikes (speci enduro, yt capra) the chainstays and the motormount feel kind of squishy under full load. I think thats related to the much higher torque with a motor.
    5. battery lid is kind of sticking out a bit, gap is filled with some foamrubber, does not look really professional.

    other than that its a monster! holy cow… this thing rips, grip is outstanding and it handles like my 2016 capra cf pro race. the fork has grip2 and it feels great.

    Marc,
    Thanks for the info. Have the motor, battery and electronics been trouble free?

  327. I only have managed to ride 50km so far but everything is doing fine. its still stock, no tuning, no derestricting yet.

    the battery is crazy… on my first ride 20km (up and down) only one bar (20%) was used. And I was mostly in boost mode!? I think it has to calibrate itself with a few cycles first.

    that big 2.8" back tire is so much fun… I would never ride such a big tire without a motor but man does it provide grip!

    Size L (they got smaller since 2016, my L capra feels bigger somehow)
    View attachment 15351

    here is a short video of the annoying backlash rattle… while riding its loud and I am used to almost silent bikes.

  328. One more issue is the charge port that is placed under the downtube, kind of tricky to get the charge port protection on some times
  329. My base model has been perfect. No motor or battery issues. Little things like a scratch prone paint job, long cables and sloppy grommets do not bother me, it’s a mountain bike… the motor isn’t that loud and the bike is very quiet descending, if not silent. That said I don’t think the battery range is anything special compared to the 504 watt Shimano and it’s at least 3 pounds heavier than advertised.
  330. the motor isn’t that loud and the bike is very quiet descending, if not silent

    So there is something wrong with mine… its so loud I checked several times during my first ride if something is loose or broken. I will report what YT has to say as I told them about it three days ago.

    My cables dont make any noise but wouldn’t hear it anyway over the backlash rattle of the motor.

  331. the motor isn’t that loud and the bike is very quiet descending, if not silen

    So there is something wrong with mine… its so loud I checked several times during my first ride if something is loose or broken. I will report what YT has to say as I told them about it three days ago.

    My cables dont make any noise but wouldn’t hear it anyway over the backlash rattle of the motor.

    Yea if it’s that loud something is loose. Good luck!

  332. I saw this video before I got my decoy. Thought the rattle is coming from his gopro. But this is exactly what my bike sounds like. Listen at 9:15 for instance. If you watch the whole video you can hear that the rattling is only present when he is not pedaling.

  333. I only have managed to ride 50km so far but everything is doing fine. its still stock, no tuning, no derestricting yet.

    the battery is crazy… on my first ride 20km (up and down) only one bar (20%) was used. And I was mostly in boost mode!? I think it has to calibrate itself with a few cycles first.

    that big 2.8" back tire is so much fun… I would never ride such a big tire without a motor but man does it provide grip!

    Size L (they got smaller since 2016, my L capra feels bigger somehow)
    View attachment 15351

    here is a short video of the annoying backlash rattle… while riding its loud and I am used to almost silent bikes.

    Isn’t that just chain slap on the chain guide? Adjusting the guide may help?

  334. Sadly its not. I am not hitting the chainguard. Its inside the motor. I do have a normal ebike (bosch) it has the same clunk to some extent but you wouldn’t notice it on normal roads.

    I have a Shimano Center nearby. I think I will go check out some other e8000 to see if it is just normal or if my motor has an issue.

  335. View attachment 15351

    here is a short video of the annoying backlash rattle… while riding its loud and I am used to almost silent bikes.

    @Marc

    Is it a carbon chainstay?
    Hollow carbon amplifies knocking sounds a LOT

    Mastic tape the fk out of the rubber chainstay protector.
    (possiby insulating underneath it with a thinner tape as well)

  336. the chainstay is carbon but there is a thick rubberprotector around it. I am not touching anything with the chain in my video. its like the gears inside the motor have no dampening.

    the carbon does transfer the sound everywhere thats why I was looking for loose parts at first on my initial ride. But I tracked it down to the motor. when I am knocking on the chain you can see the crank wiggling slightly. thats whats causes the sound not the chain.

    at this point I hope my motor has an issue ;)

  337. Ah…

    have you owned a bike with an E8000 motor at all previously?

    There aren’t gears as such inside the motor but as the e8000s chainring spider freewheels it needs to engage and disengage just like any freewheel. The sound you are hearing is freewheel pick up. It’s the same sound you’ll hear on every e8000 motor if you lightly apply pressure to the pedal and release while stood with one foot on the floor stationary. Perhaps amplified because of the carbon frame construction? the noise shouldn’t really be noticable while moving as the hub should be freewheeling. it should only really happen when you start to apply pressure to the pedals again from freewheeling.
    check that your hub freewheel is smooth and freewheels without resistance.

    also is there play anywhere at all on the bike there shouldn’t be?
    Is the crank spider lockring tight? (the splined lockring that looks a little like a 20mm centrelock hub lockring) which holds the spider on? it’s easy to check. the spider mounts to a splined section of the axle and will have slight play if it’s loose
    Are all (6) Motor mounting bolts tight?
    Is the rear mech clutch (if Shimano) on?

    Carbon is annoying AF for transferring sounds from one frame area to another.
    a few years back I had a tiny intermittent creak from my carbon roadbike that sounded like it was coming from the BB area or possibly the seat post. I disassembled the BB. removed and cleaned the seat post carbon pasted and it was still there. went over the bike (every component) and it still remained. eventually i tracked it down to one tiny rear mech hanger bolt being very slightly loose. (the other hanger bolt was tight so the actual hanger didn’t feel loose at all but it was obviously just loose enough to cause friction under power/turning forces to cause a creak that sounded like it was coming from somewhere entirely different.

    cool story I know. ;)

    hope some of this helps. if not I hope you find the issue.

  338. first of all I want to thank you. really appreciate your efforts to help me (y)

    its my first emtb. thats what I meant in my first post – my normal bikes are silent other than the usual hub noise. I checked every bolt and the lockring is tight. rear mech clutch engaged.

    there are quite a few gears inside a e8000 but maybe we are not talking about the same (language barrier on my side ;))

    View attachment 15388

    I am afraid its freewheel pick up – backlash on the chain from the suspension leads to a recurrent rattle. thats why I said I hope its a motor issue. Uh that will be quite hard getting used to but I know I am very picky regarding noises with my bikes.

    btw. my Decoy CF pro black large with atlas pedals and a few pieces of vinyl is 23040g or 50.8lbs.

  339. Let us know what’s causing that horrible racket! I’m sure it can be solved cause mine doesn’t do that.

    If anyone was curious the LSS DT 2.0 is a direct fit on the base model decoy. And it works [emoji2958].

    View attachment 15392

    View attachment 15391

    That’s awesome that the LSS DT 2.0 (which I originally designed for the Specialized Turbo Levo) is a direct fit on the YT Decoy! If anyone hasn’t heard of it or has any questions about it I’m happy to answer them. I also have some links in my signature with more details on the LSS.

  340. That said I don’t think the battery range is anything special compared to the 504 watt Shimano and it’s at least 3 pounds heavier than advertised.

    I still think the battery is special and I am not alone. These new 21700 cells are great.

    22.2kg advertised in size small + 355g pedals = 22.6kg + larger frame in L = 23kg. I don’t see where the bike is "at least" 700g heavier than advertised.

    But being 100kg myself couldn’t care less about the bikes weight :cool: looking forward to the heavier 700wh battery.

  341. If anyone hasn’t heard of it or has any questions about it I’m happy to answer them. I also have some links in my signature with more details on the LSS.

    Googled the hell out of it but still no clue what it is :giggle: please tell me more about it.

  342. Has anyone received a Decoy with a Race Face lever for the dropper post? Mine arrived with a Fox dropper lever
  343. That said I don’t think the battery range is anything special compared to the 504 watt Shimano and it’s at least 3 pounds heavier than advertised.

    I still think the battery is special and I am not alone. These new 21700 cells are great.

    22.2kg advertised in size small + 355g pedals = 22.6kg + larger frame in L = 23kg. I don’t see where the bike is "at least" 700g heavier than advertised.

    But being 100kg myself couldn’t care less about the bikes weight :cool: looking forward to the heavier 700wh battery.

    Mine was 53 pounds out of the box.

  344. Will the LSS work with the E-Thirteen Carbon wheels on the Pro Race Decoy?

    If it fits it should. Carbon makes no difference. I was thinking about adopting LSS for Decoy as it also has magnet mounted in the disc brake just like Levo. It is very clever design. Hats off to the author

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