Voima. My Opinion matters. Why I didn't buy a Voima.

[Moderator]

The Voima is quite a polarising bike.

This thread is somewhere you can tell everyone your important opinion of why you didn't buy one or why you don't like it. Rather than trolling all the relevant threads.

 

[Tooks]

The first time I saw a Voima, I laughed out loud.

The more I learnt about them, the more I wanted one, and seeing Rob’s build video confirmed that I needed one.

Why haven’t I got one?

Can‘t afford one, that’s the long and short of it!

I suppose I could, if I sold both my current e-bikes, all my camera gear, all my rc flight gear, and possibly a kidney and small child, but then life would be less interesting. As well as me being in a lot of trouble with my wife re the child thing…

I’m really chuffed for those who have one though!

 

[Nautical Biker]

The first time I saw a Voima, I laughed out loud.

The more I learnt about them, the more I wanted one, and seeing Rob’s build video confirmed that I needed one.

Why haven’t I got one?

Can‘t afford one, that’s the long and short of it!

I suppose I could, if I sold both my current e-bikes, all my camera gear, all my rc flight gear, and possibly a kidney and small child, but then life would be less interesting. As well as me being in a lot of trouble with my wife re the child thing…

I’m really chuffed for those who have one though!

 

[Plummet]

The first time I saw a Voima, I laughed out loud.

The more I learnt about them, the more I wanted one, and seeing Rob’s build video confirmed that I needed one.

Why haven’t I got one?

Can‘t afford one, that’s the long and short of it!

I suppose I could, if I sold both my current e-bikes, all my camera gear, all my rc flight gear, and possibly a kidney and small child, but then life would be less interesting. As well as me being in a lot of trouble with my wife re the child thing…

I’m really chuffed for those who have one though!

So did I. The rear end in particular at first sight looks flexible af. I'll be honest I still dont like the look of the rear. The seat/chain stay just looks weak. Obviously they have milled some meat onto the stays... bit still ...

But as you, once you dive into the design it starts making some sense.

Let's be honest, to cnc put of solid billet and glue together is not ideal or industry best practice. But I do love a good pin of cnc porn.... so on a form over function point of view it gets my vote.

I haven't go yet on the purchase but I'm getting closer.

 

[Paris Doo]

The Voima is quite a polarising bike.

This thread is somewhere you can tell everyone your important opinion of why you didn't buy one or why you don't like it. Rather than trolling all the relevant threads.

@Rob Rides EMTB the above message & the phrases used (your important opinion, trolling etc) are not only disappointing but rather offensive especially coming from a moderator and I would be surprised if you support or encourage such a behavior.

 

[cozzy]

I didn't buy one (yet) as I hate the Bosch handlebar controller and having a battery key.
I'm very pleased the v2 has the integrated display now.
Maybe by revision 3 the key will also be gone and the race axles will be standard fitment.
Then when I finally decide to replace my kenevo I'll order one to coincide with a morzine trip to avoid UK import fees.

 

[cozzy]

I wonder if a manufacturer has to use the official mounting system, so only third parties could offer a lock replacement ?

They do, I think Rob confirmed when he visited the.m.
One can only hope though what the future may bring.

 

[Doomanic]

I'll order one to coincide with a morzine trip to avoid UK import fees.

And pay French import instead...

 

[Doomanic]

I haven't bought one because they are far too cheap for the spec on offer...

 

[yorkshire89]

And pay French import instead...

Would there be an import duty with Finland and France both in EU?

 

[cozzy]

Would there be an import duty with Finland and France both in EU?

It was a few hundred quid cheaper when I worked it out a while back due to no 6% import fees.
Edit. Although Switzerland may be a better option with their 8% vat rate.
I'll look into it in more detail nearer the time

 

[Doomanic]

Would there be an import duty with Finland and France both in EU?

Ah. I wasn’t aware of that, thanks.

 

[Mikerb]

I wonder if a manufacturer has to use the official mounting system, so only third parties could offer a lock replacement ?

As far as I know there's only two mounts - side loading (Rail) and front loading (Focus etc) You'd think by now someone would make a generic mount which swaps out which just replaces the Bosch lock mount.

+ solid downtube with battery inserted from the bottom on the Bosch rail system ( e.g. Whyte).

 

[K78]

Would there be an import duty with Finland and France both in EU?

Finland VAT should be discounted when the bike is exported outside of EU.

I assumed I would pay double VAT on parts from German sellers but that isn’t the case. German VAT is discounted at point of sale and U.K. VAT is charged on arrival. Duty is £0.

 

[SwampNut]

Why is it controversial? I don’t get it. They are one of many great options.

 

[losgatosgtr]

Maybe Rob or other Voima owners should chime in about potential rear end flex but I didn’t fell any when I briefly rode it.

I briefly rode the size K2 Voima at Sea Otter about a week ago and was blown away by how good it felt for such a long travel bike. I was riding around and hoping off curbs and making tight turns like I was on a Levo. I have both a 2020 Levo and a 2020 Kenevo and I gotta tell you the Voima feels right in there. I should have popped my helmet on and ridden the demo dirt track with it but I instantly felt at home on the bike. If I didn’t already have two other fantastic ebikes I would buy one. The Bosch motor and new Bluetooth controller is Fantastic and I love the top tube display. The new integrated brake adapters look amazing as well. The pivots are pretty massive and I didn’t notice any issues with rear end flex.

Don’t mind the notes I made on the first picture.

 

[Plummet]

Well I'm still on the fence.

What's holding me back?
* It's not carbon. That means I cant repair it easily if I break it and its my fault.

* There is no crash replacement policy. Just a "we look after our customers" response. This could be anything from free parts to having to pay full retail for replacement parts. It's an increased risk

* I want mullet option. Pole dont officially offer mullet and cannot configure the sensor in the factory for mullet config. This means I have to try and get a local bosch agent to configure. That's more cost and time and a small possibility it is not available locally. It just adds another level of hassle and admin. Other manufacturers can configure sensors to mullet config in the factory as a standard option.

* I would prefer the race motor. However the race motor option is only available in either complete or frame only with other non removable options I dont neccessarily want. Making the race motor a very expensive option. As an example you cant option the race motor with raw finish no protective film. That means if i chose race motor i would be paying for $800nzd of color and protective film option. I would much prefer to have raw finish and race motor at a reduced price.

*No local support. Pricing at similar pricing to brands supported locally.

* Seat tube geo is too steep for my liking. It leads to compromised having to be made with sizing. 78° would be ideal for me.

* Only one battery size available. I would love a 500wh option for this bike as most of my rides would be within a 500wh capacity. I could then shed another 1.5kg of weight. Plus I could retain the 750wh for longer riders and have 1300wh capacity for big bike park days.

* This is a heavy bike 25-26kg for standard spec. Its a good 2kg heavier than a carbon equivalent.

* Failure of 2022 swingarm from at least one customer suggests more development is needed on the bonded 7075 frame design. Its a concern particularly for hard riders. I do ride hard.

In the frame reach size I want the seated riding position is more cramped than I ideally want. It makes for less comfortable riding position when riding milder terrain. (when riding stupid steep up, and down the geo makes perfect sense)

What do I like?
* 190mm front and rear. ( I cant find any other e-bikes with descent geo with this much travel)
The pole ride somewhere in between my DH bike and enduro bike for descending capability

* Good slack Geo, bb that's not stupid low. and kinematics look awesome

* Even thou alloy is a disadvantage, I to love the crazy cnc'd 2 piece frame. It is "Pole"erising.. hehehe. I could use this bike as advertisment for my bike rack business.

* Bosch motor is the motor I want.

* Freight options are reasonable compared to US procured bikes.

* Awesome consumer feedback. Every boby without except states this is the best e-bike they have ridden/owned.

* Small adaptable company where the owner is actively involved in forum feed back. I like to support the little guy rather that the big corporates.

* 5 year warrantee kind of offsets the concerns of frame delamination.

*Climbs like a damn mountain goat.

 

[Onetime]

Well I'm still on the fence.

What's holding me back?
* It's not carbon. That means I cant repair it easily if I break it and its my fault.

* There is no crash replacement policy. Just a "we look after our customers" response. This could be anything from free parts to having to pay full retail for replacement parts. It's an increased risk

* I want mullet option. Pole dont officially offer mullet and cannot configure the sensor in the factory for mullet config. This means I have to try and get a local bosch agent to configure. That's more cost and time and a small possibility it is not available locally. It just adds another level of hassle and admin. Other manufacturers can configure sensors to mullet config in the factory as a standard option.

* I would prefer the race motor. However the race motor option is only available in either complete or frame only with other non removable options I dont neccessarily want. Making the race motor a very expensive option. As an example you cant option the race motor with raw finish no protective film. That means if i chose race motor i would be paying for $800nzd of color and protective film option. I would much prefer to have raw finish and race motor at a reduced price.

*No local support. Pricing at similar pricing to brands supported locally.

* Seat tube geo is too steep for my liking. It leads to compromised having to be made with sizing. 78° would be ideal for me.

* Only one battery size available. I would love a 500wh option for this bike as most of my rides would be within a 500wh capacity. I could then shed another 1.5kg of weight. Plus I could retain the 750wh for longer riders and have 1300wh capacity for big bike park days.

* This is a heavy bike 25-26kg for standard spec. Its a good 2kg heavier than a carbon equivalent.

* Failure of 2022 swingarm from at least one customer suggests more development is needed on the bonded 7075 frame design. Its a concern particularly for hard riders. I do ride hard.

In the frame reach size I want the seated riding position is more cramped than I ideally want. It makes for less comfortable riding position when riding milder terrain. (when riding stupid steep up, and down the geo makes perfect sense)

What do I like?
* 190mm front and rear. ( I cant find any other e-bikes with descent geo with this much travel)
The pole ride somewhere in between my DH bike and enduro bike for descending capability

* Good slack Geo, bb that's not stupid low. and kinematics look awesome

* Even thou alloy is a disadvantage, I to love the crazy cnc'd 2 piece frame. It is "Pole"erising.. hehehe. I could use this bike as advertisment for my bike rack business.

* Bosch motor is the motor I want.

* Freight options are reasonable compared to US procured bikes.

* Awesome consumer feedback. Every boby without except states this is the best e-bike they have ridden/owned.

* Small adaptable company where the owner is actively involved in forum feed back. I like to support the little guy rather that the big corporates.

* 5 year warrantee kind of offsets the concerns of frame delamination.

*Climbs like a damn mountain goat.

A couple things, you can a get raw race id frameset without the protective film, (that’s what I ordered). You just need to ask for it and they’ll take the film off of the order and adjust the cost accordingly. You can also order it with the rotor magnet/swingarm sensor as opposed to the rim magnet, which I’ve heard is easier to change the rear wheel diameter with at the dealer. With the rim magnet, it’s more complicated to change even at the dealer, but it can be done because I had it done on my old one.

 

[Plummet]

A couple things, you can a get raw race id frameset without the protective film, (that’s what I ordered). You just need to ask for it and they’ll take the film off of the order and adjust the cost accordingly. You can also order it with the rotor magnet/swingarm sensor as opposed to the rim magnet, which I’ve heard is easier to change the rear wheel diameter with at the dealer. With the rim magnet, it’s more complicated to change even at the dealer, but it can be done because I had it done on my old one.

Righto, I asked the other way around. IE asked can I have a race spec motor added to id build and the answer was NO.

I'll try to see if I can I de-spec a race build.

Side note.

I'm also seriously considering a LED build.....

LED $5999, $12.8k nzd (including buy/sell) zeb select for ultimate in NZ.
ID non race (with zeb ultimate up spec) $7196, $14.5k nzd
Race spec $8417 $17k NZD.


Advantage of id over led. 300G lighter frame. Integrated controller is this worth an extra $1600nzd?
Race motor option.... the only advantage is the motor for me. I do want or care for the extra accessories. Is that worth $2.5k over the ID and $4k over the led?

 

[BigG]

Slider/bashguard totally worth it. You don’t want to bash the motor. I like chainguide too. Rest up to you. Kiox300 is worthless pos.

As for led vs id - I HATE led controller with passion and I wish I waited for Id (it was announced like next day I ordered led).
But at least you can move it away somewhere under the bars where it’s not easily damaged and get a bosch mini remote. It’s compatible with LED too, I have one, costs around 55-60 usd iirc.
I wish I could hide LED thing inside completely out of sight, but there’s no power on button on mini remote and no mode indicator.

 

[cozzy]

Advantage of id over led. 300G lighter frame. Integrated controller is this worth an extra $1600nzd?

Yes. I would never buy a bike with a massive handlebar controller. They look utter shite.

 

[Plummet]

Yes. I would never buy a bike with a massive handlebar controller. They look utter shite.

I've test ridden a Voima with that controller. It was bigish, but I wasnt super offended by it. I'm sitting here going welll.... that $1.6k could be well spent on a Mullet Wheel set or upgrading to some Dorado's or getting a custom tunned EXT arma.

 

[Plummet]

Slider/bashguard totally worth it. You don’t want to bash the motor. I like chainguide too. Rest up to you. Kiox300 is worthless pos.

As for led vs id - I HATE led controller with passion and I wish I waited for Id (it was announced like next day I ordered led).
But at least you can move it away somewhere under the bars where it’s not easily damaged and get a bosch mini remote. It’s compatible with LED too, I have one, costs around 55-60 usd iirc.
I wish I could hide LED thing inside completely out of sight, but there’s no power on button on mini remote and no mode indicator.

The PE slider makes sense to me but the bash guard? what the hell is it guarding? not the chainring. That's higher than the pe slider. I dont run bash guards on any of my bikes. Its mainly loam and roots around here.

 

[Paul Mac]

The PE slider makes sense to me but the bash guard? what the hell is it guarding? not the chainring. That's higher than the pe slider. I dont run bash guards on any of my bikes. Its mainly loam and roots around here.

Agreed I would get the skid plate and then by a separate chain guide without the bash guard. I've seen a 3d printed one for the Voima for about £30.

 

[Gandalf]

I've seen a 3d printed one for the Voima for about £30.

look here

POLE VOIMA chainguide - VisionVelo

Keeps your chain on place even in rough terrain. Free shipping worldwide!

visionvelo.eu

 

[Plummet]

I've seen a 3d printed one for the Voima for about £30.

look here

POLE VOIMA chainguide - VisionVelo

Keeps your chain on place even in rough terrain. Free shipping worldwide!

visionvelo.eu

That actually looks nice. The one pole guide machined alloy mount is weak and breaks. This looks good.

 

[Mikerb]

Form V Function?? I prefer the LED Remote over the alternatives simply because the system controller, on/off switch, mode changer and display interface ( Kiox 300)....if required.....are all integrated into a single, easy to buy and replace unit. Yes it could be more compact, but one of the weakest aspects of an EMTB is electrical issues and the alternative solution of a separate mode changer and top tube mounted controller ( mastermind) means additional connections and the positioning of the controller in a hostile ( for electronics) environment....................witness the issues LEVO etc owners experienced with the TCU due to damp/water ingress , and some reports of Mastermind screens cracking in hotter climates.......presumably due to the angle of it to the sun.
Bosch could have made the LED Remote more compact if it did a version without the KIOX 300 screen controls!!

 

[Plummet]

Form V Function?? I prefer the LED Remote over the alternatives simply because the system controller, on/off switch, mode changer and display interface ( Kiox 300)....if required.....are all integrated into a single, easy to buy and replace unit. Yes it could be more compact, but one of the weakest aspects of an EMTB is electrical issues and the alternative solution of a separate mode changer and top tube mounted controller ( mastermind) means additional connections and the positioning of the controller in a hostile ( for electronics) environment....................witness the issues LEVO etc owners experienced with the TCU due to damp/water ingress , and some reports of Mastermind screens cracking in hotter climates.......presumably due to the angle of it to the sun.
Bosch could have made the LED Remote more compact if it did a version without the KIOX 300 screen controls!!

Yeah, this morning I'm leaning towards the led. I'm trying to remember the last time I bashed something inboard on the bars....

ok. I center punched a tree and broke a brake lever on the dh bike 6 months ago. The bolt was done up too tight and the lever didn't move. Usually I run the bolts just over pinch tight on the bars so what ever get hit rotates around on the bar and doesn't get damaged.

Also, Why not just run the led controller more inboard? Do you really need fingertip adjustment of power levels?
Apart from dicking around I generally set one power level and leave it until I'm running down on battery. 90% of my rides would be turn on, select turbo mode, ride it like I stole it... finish ride.

I'm thinking of running the controller close to the steam,

 

[BigG]

I have full 22.2 bars with no thick middle part and tried running it near the stem, but still had mini remote at the grip. Worked fine, clamp is 22.2 only on led remote.

Also visionvelo have close-to-stem mounts too, for both 31.8 and 35mm bars, needed for regular bars.

As for modes - depends on your style and trails, I switch multiple times per ride.
Turbo is dumb full on, can spin in very loose or mud easily, with no way to adjust to get grip back.
Emtb has more pronounced overrun, handy for pedaling over rocks/roots where you’d hit the pedal. It’s also input sensitive. More you push more it assists. I think race motor will have even more overrun.
Auto is amazing - full range from eco to turbo, good for long fire road climbing. Better battery than turbo because it’s sensitive to input/cadence.
I don’t use eco at all, it’s way too subtle for me.

 

[Plummet]

I have full 22.2 bars with no thick middle part and tried running it near the stem, but still had mini remote at the grip. Worked fine, clamp is 22.2 only on led remote.

Also visionvelo have close-to-stem mounts too, for both 31.8 and 35mm bars, needed for regular bars.

As for modes - depends on your style and trails, I switch multiple times per ride.
Turbo is dumb full on, can spin in very loose or mud easily, with no way to adjust to get grip back.
Emtb has more pronounced overrun, handy for pedaling over rocks/roots where you’d hit the pedal. It’s also input sensitive. More you push more it assists. I think race motor will have even more overrun.
Auto is amazing - full range from eco to turbo, good for long fire road climbing. Better battery than turbo because it’s sensitive to input/cadence.
I don’t use eco at all, it’s way too subtle for me.

Well, I'm an designer by trade. So if I need to design a new led mount I will.