Article Range Check - How far can you go?


Mate, whats the range like on your Ebike?

It's the second question that I get after I've told someone that I have an EMTB. The first one is, 'That's cheating, isn't it'. Haha. Honestly, I think that after the 'cheating' comments, many people seem genuinely interested in the bike and how far they can actually go. And then the next question is usually 'Do they recharge as you ride them?'. I love talking to people about my bike. I am a massive promoter of them to anyone who will listen to me so after the first couple of questions I find that people usually want to hear more. Then they hear the price and the subject changes quite quickly!

Despite going on several rides, including trail centres and a couple of visits to Bike Park Wales, I've never really had a full day out to ride the bike until the battery is completely done. I've had a rough idea of what it could do, but wanted to give it a real life test to fully understand these bad boys can do.

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I knew a rough idea of the route that I wanted to take. First, the SRAM Code on the front of the bike is a bit dodgy. Just like the Codes on the Kenevo I think that these are having a similar issue (stuck front pistons). So the first stop off was my Local Bike shop, about 6 miles away from home. I wanted to take the most off-road route possible, so pointed my fully-charged bike in that direction and started on my all day battery test.

On the way to the LBS I stopped to film a short segment for the YouTube, and discovered how great the new App that my friend at work recommended to me: Dark Sky. This app is amazing for any cyclist who lives near intermittent weather areas (just like the UK!). I had an alert when I was filming that rain was starting in 3 minutes (yes, it's that accurate). Amazingly, it did! It gave me just enough time to get out the jacket, put away the camera to avoid water damage and crack on with my ride.




When I got the the LBS they booked the bike in for a 'service' (I didn't ever take it in for it's 6 week service) and hopefully they will work out that the front Code needs replacing. I love visiting the local bike shops. Local bike shops are one of the few retailers that are left in the UK where the staff have a real passion for what they sell, instead of generic, big brand, big box stores that don't really seem to really care about, or know anything about the stuff they are flogging.

I started to ride along the Basingstoke Canal heading North towards Swinley Forest. I had a rough idea of where I was heading (quite easy when you're along a canal as there is only one way to go!). After about 5 miles and a downpour of rain I found myself in the military area of Deepcut. Perfect, this was exactly where I wanted to be. At this point I'd used mostly Eco mode on the Levo, which gives approximately 20% assistance from the 250w motor. I'd been riding mostly flat single track, forest and roads at this point, followed by canal towpath, which is flatter than an iron, so barely any assistance needed at all.

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I knew that I'd need to leave the canal at some point. After a few more miles I pulled out the iPhone to check where I was. Good job, I needed to take a swift exit off the canal path and through one of the local woods, near the army barracks and firing range :eek:. I met a really nice gentleman who gave me directions (about 15 minutes of directions, check the video right at the top of this page!). After listening to his guidance I managed to work my way into a working army barracks which I'm pretty sure the regal public are not supposed to be in. Oh well, no trouble, I managed to sneak through and get my way to the other side!


Finally I managed to hit Swinley Forest, the local trail centre to me. Quick battery and mileage check. Yep, definitely on for at least 40 miles for this ride, easily. I was really hungry at this point, hadn't bothered to stop for any lunch at this point so I stopped in at Swinley Bike Hub for some Cliff Bars and a coffee before I hit the red trails at the forest.

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After a few laps of the Red and Blue trail it was time to head back home. Usually I have a set route that I take but this time I couldn't as I was a bit short on time. I tried to take a short cut, which ended up being a long cut! I finally managed to work out where I was through the maps on my phone and got back to the road side.

At this point I'd covered about 35 miles. I had around 10% battery left, through a mix of Eco, Trail and a couple of hit of Turbo mode to help me with the steepest sections. Finally, I found a road that I recognised and was within 5 miles of home.

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Finally I was on the home straight. I'd been out all day and riding for almost 5 hours. This wasn't the most taxing ride at all, but what I really liked about it was that it was just a regular everyday ride, that anyone can do anytime. I now know that with my bike I can go out all day, discover outdoors, take on anything that I come across and get a good 40 miles plus from my Turbo Levo. That's a good day out to me, mate. :cool:



 
Last edited:
Rob Hancill

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Pottsy

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Feb 12, 2018
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#2
Rob
Good video.
I downloaded the Dark Skys app.
Looking forward to see how accurate it is.

In this country it wont be long till I find out.

Ta
Pottsy
 

Gary

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Mar 29, 2018
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#3
Nice wee write up and vid Rob.
What was your total elevation though? It looked really flat from the video.
 

Ade

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#5
great vid and good info but please dont film yourself no handed on the roads, (16m05s).
 

Doomanic

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#8
Nice wee write up and vid Rob.
What was your total elevation though? It looked really flat from the video.
I’m going to take a guess: flatter than a witch’s tit...
 

Rob Hancill

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Jan 14, 2018
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#9
Nice wee write up and vid Rob.
What was your total elevation though? It looked really flat from the video.
My Wahoo Bolt ran out of charge so I couldn't upload to Strava as it seems to be partially corrupt but I've just gone through the Wahoo app and found it.

It was a huge, massive monserous climb of 610 metres (2001ft) :p:LOL::ROFLMAO:. Should have added this into the video really, one for next time!
 

Tori

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Apr 1, 2018
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#10
Hey Rob, cheers for the video you posted this morning - I've just got home from riding moto all day on my other lover, my Beta 300RR enduro. Hopefully I don't wake up too sore in the morning, as I've got a ride on the Levo planned.

Good to see you're getting decent mileage. There are so many factors that play into the range you can get out of the bike. Are you finding on the flat terrain that you're sitting above 25 kmph? If you're not running a strong headwind and you're on flat terrain, I think it's very doable to sit just above, floating in between 26 and 30km per hour . . . which of course means you won't be eating into your battery at all. Inject more of these >25kmph bits into your ride sessions and you'll be able to do the transport sections - with heaps of battery left when you hit the bike park. The Levo's are especially suited to this, in that you don't have any motor resistance to fight against when you're riding over the cutout limit.

Are you still on the stock Butcher tyres? What PSI do you run? Rolling resistance will have a big effect on efficiency also.

PS> Don't forget to lock out that shock for the flat transports; it makes a big difference in ease of pedalling, I've found.
 

Gary

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Mar 29, 2018
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#11
Thanks Rob. That's actually more climbing than I thought you'd have done. Just shows you how decieving go pro POV trail videos are, eh?

Hey Tori.
I rode mine to work mostly on the road the other morning. it's 10 miles exactly and mostly pancake flat but has two short climbs end ends with a mile long descent. I spent 90% of the ride above the 15mph limit and boosted the two climbs at 14mph and got to work not even slightly sweaty or out of breath and grinning about it funnily enough. Later that same day after work I rode a further 15miles of local off road trails (mainly dry and flatish) on boost the entire ride. but again was above the assistance limit for a good chunk of the ride (60% of it at a guess). Looking at Strava I'd done 25 miles and only 1500ish ft of climbing for the day and had 3/5 bars left (so over 60%) on the battery.
I don't know how well the Spesh bikes pedal but the Sommet is actually a great pedalling suspension design. there's little need to ride with the rear shocks compression setting in anything other than full party mode at all. even on the road. (it's a RS Superdeluxe RC3 and has a lock out, firmer pedal setting and full open)
Tyres and pressures definitely do make a huge difference. I ran mine at 50f/60r psi for the commute and had already switched out the 2.5 DHF 3Cs for a far faster rolling 2.5DHF/2.3SS combo. I actually forgot to bother dropping the pressure for the XC ride later but I rarely struggle to find grip round here and actually really enjoy a bike that drifts and slides around a little. the fact you can power slide this bike is absolutely hilarious! :D Weight and elevation is definitely the major battery drain for me. I'm still carrying a lot of excess winter weight just now but it's slowly coming off and I'm getting stronger and stronger each ride.
I keep saying this but the 15mph assistance limit here makes no sense to me. I can ride the bike switched off at over that for ages if it's flat on or off road. Somewhere between 20-25mph would make much more sense IMO. I can't imagine how awful an E-roadbike would be limited to 15. most Strava road KOMs around here are over 15mph average. I think I need head over to the forum pages we don't mention and trawl the internet to look into the options.
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#12
Have a more complete story in separate thread First time 50+ wife.....

Scott e-genius 720 2018. After 30,6 km 2 hrs 26 min ride mostly in the forest (80%) and using eco and trail modes (no boost) still 4/5 bars left on the battery!!! (500 Wh)
 

Ryder

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#13
Wow, not too many hills I assume Peter?
 

Pottsy

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#14
Giant SX 0 pro 500wh battery, 15 stone with all the kit on.

28 miles, forest lanes mostly.
4120 ft of total ascent,

Eco mode all the way.

32% battery left.

Pottsy.
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#15
Wow, not too many hills I assume Peter?
No mountains but certainly not flat. small hills up and down all time. How impressive it is cannot be evaluated exactly. The bike is new. 2nd charging only. The 4/5 bars may not be linear. But it certainly looks and feels good. First real trip and so you are a bit scared about how the battery will last. But felt really good looking at the bars after it was finalised. /P
 

Ryder

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Apr 24, 2018
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#16
Interesting,

When I tested the e-genius with Steps motor I only got about 27 miles with 3000ft climbing. Will see how that progresses once mine arrives. I was mostly in trail so eco may be the key.
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#17
3000 ft? If I calculate correct that corresponds to approx 250Wh of the battery= 50 % of maximum charge when new. (= 100% power from battery/motor and 100% efficiency on same, loss of efficiency and addition fr, you legs equal gives zero net??? ) If correct calculation conclusion yes, you will not get so much more even theoretically, If climbing 1000 ft or more and then want to more distance than 27 miles you may need a bigger battery (750 Wh Bulls twin battery....) . That said. Our climbing was in ascent maybe 1/5-1/4 of yours. The energy balance, very roughly calculated, say that you used a full battery (500 Wh) on that trip = reality showed you!!. /P
 

Ryder

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Apr 24, 2018
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#18
Not that I understand the figures but it looks like Pottsy above has managed quite a bit more climbing on a 500kw battery but in eco. I suspect I will just need to get used to managing the battery once I get my hands on the bike. Will update here once I have done a few rides.
 

Cyclejunkie

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#19
Keep going up hill till your battery dies....then it’s all down hill from there.....just saying but don’t take any notice of me 🤓🤭🤨🧐
 

Pottsy

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#20
Not that I understand the figures but it looks like Pottsy above has managed quite a bit more climbing on a 500kw battery but in eco. I suspect I will just need to get used to managing the battery once I get my hands on the bike. Will update here once I have done a few rides.
My facts and figures from trip. For those with view ranger.

Total distance 44.2 km, Banagher (25km off road) 29 April 2017 | Walking with ViewRanger GPS . Via @ViewRanger

Pottsy
 

Gary

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Mar 29, 2018
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#21
Just back from an after work ride in the Scottish borders.
From a full charge I managed 3000ft in 10 miles until the battery died. 500wh Shimano)
Ride was made up of 4 climb/descents. and all Climbing done on boost. Half of each climb is fireroad and an 8% grade the second half is steeper, rooty and muddy with an average grade of 11%. 3 short sections are completely unridable on a nonEbike (too soft/steep) the Ebike only just made them.
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#22
Not that I understand the figures but it looks like Pottsy above has managed quite a bit more climbing on a 500kw battery but in eco. I suspect I will just need to get used to managing the battery once I get my hands on the bike. Will update here once I have done a few rides.
Hi again. Some more explanations; I hope I remember my physics from 40 years ago (and more) To lift 100 kg (75+25 for the bike) 1000 meter up requires 1000*100*9,81/3600 = 272 Wh theoretically at a minimum. Roughly (you can adjust these factors by the app for each mode) eco mode means 80% energy from legs and 20% from battery. Trail maybe 40% from legs and 60% from battery, Boost 20% from legs and 80% from battery. So running with these settings mean that a full battery can take you 9 km "vertically" on a battery charge (500 Wh) when in eco mode , 4-5 km on trail mode and 2 + km when on boost mode. This is a rough hypothetic comparison. That is the they roughly say that you can go 100-120 km on eco mode when going normally ascent (80 and 40-60 km respectively. When wife running I assume maybe half or more eco and rest trail and ascent not so much . All observations from this calcualations makes sense. /P
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#23
Hi again. Some more explanations; I hope I remember my physics from 40 years ago (and more) To lift 100 kg (75+25 for the bike) 1000 meter up requires 1000*100*9,81/3600 = 272 Wh theoretically at a minimum. Roughly (you can adjust these factors by the app for each mode) eco mode means 80% energy from legs and 20% from battery. Trail maybe 40% from legs and 60% from battery, Boost 20% from legs and 80% from battery. So running with these settings mean that a full battery can take you 9 km "vertically" on a battery charge (500 Wh) when in eco mode , 4-5 km on trail mode and 2 + km when on boost mode. This is a rough hypothetic comparison. That is the they roughly say that you can go 100-120 km on eco mode when going normally ascent (80 and 40-60 km respectively. When wife running I assume maybe half or more eco and rest trail and ascent not so much . All observations from this calcualations makes sense. /P
Add on. From the calculations and the nominal range for "easy normal" ride you can make an triangle for each mode. One point max ascent /vertical and 0 horisontal (normal) range, one point no ascent (other than the easy normal) and 110 for the eco as example and the third point in the diagram is the 0 ascent and zero range. Then you can look at your point on the leaning line and check. If mud, a lot friction etc the line will be lowered...
 

Doomanic

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#24
What losses are you considering in those calculations?
 
Mar 12, 2018
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#25
Add on. From the calculations and the nominal range for "easy normal" ride you can make an triangle for each mode. One point max ascent /vertical and 0 horisontal (normal) range, one point no ascent (other than the easy normal) and 110 for the eco as example and the third point in the diagram is the 0 ascent and zero range. Then you can look at your point on the leaning line and check. If mud, a lot friction etc the line will be lowered...
 

Attachments

Mar 12, 2018
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#26
What losses are you considering in those calculations?
Losses on vertical climb = none (its rough and hypothetic) Losses on normal range (easy) = actual. Please note that this is not a perfect calculation. It is a rough one simplified. The perfect one requires a doctor thesis although a slightly better one can be made quite easy. Anyone??. It shows the rough principle and a relative comparison . Probably you should lower the "ascent range" as I don't bring in any friction or loss of energy efficiency there. In the horizontal range (if figures true based on experience) they are true if no ascent other than the "easy one". It shows you clearly that it is such a huge difference between the modes . Because of the energy ratio you deliver yourself will be so big difference between the modes.
 
Mar 12, 2018
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3
Sweden
#27
Losses on vertical climb = none (its rough and hypothetic) Losses on normal range (easy) = actual. Please note that this is not a perfect calculation. It is a rough one simplified. The perfect one requires a doctor thesis although a slightly better one can be made quite easy. Anyone??. It shows the rough principle and a relative comparison . Probably you should lower the "ascent range" as I don't bring in any friction or loss of energy efficiency there. In the horizontal range (if figures true based on experience) they are true if no ascent other than the "easy one". It shows you clearly that it is such a huge difference between the modes . Because of the energy ratio you deliver yourself will be so big difference between the modes.
In fact if you put in the ascent, and range and % of each mode we can calibrate the curve fairly good and so check if the battery and motor seems to be ok!!/P
 

StuR

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#28
My best so far -
50.2km
856 mtrs climbing
3hrs 11 mins
Ave speed 15.7 kph
Specialized Levo -504 watt battery - 5% left
Im 14st plus kit
Variety of terrain around forest of dean
Settings 30/60/100
Tried to use trail and boost mode economically but i just can't help myself sometimes
 
Last edited:

Kernow

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#29
Rider wieght certainly seems to make a huge difference , last week we rode the 18mile Black route at Glentress a few times , I used eco almost all the way to the top , Iam 100 kilo the other 2 on identical bikes used trail and I believe some boost 🤔at times they are around 85 kg . My battery didn’t seem to be lasting much longer than the other two . We also found after dropping to 2 bars shortly before stopping for a 10 min rest the battery was showing 3 bars again when we set off again .
After 2 bars the shimano battery will suddenly drop to one red bar on the display , however I noticed my battery still showing 2 bars . I’ve not pushed it much past this stage so no idea how far it will go .
The range prediction is certainly meaningless and if you go by that I believe you’ll end up pedaling a dead bike .
 

PeteIOM

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#30
My best so far would be 70 miles with a mix of tarmac, dirt and 1800ft climbs.
Riding in majority Tour mode and occasionally Eco.
Rider weight 130kg give or take.
As above.. I stopped paying any attention to the range left data and leave the control unit set to total distance covered.
The battery bars are actually very good on the Bosch.. I've covered 10 miles on two bars and felt confident that one bar would see me home if need be.
 



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