Official Turbo Kenevo thread

Rob Hancill

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#1
Post everything Turbo Kenevo related in this thread. (y)

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ccrdave

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#2
anybody know when the infinite tune update will arrive for mission control
 

ccrdave

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#4
they are going to allow you to set motor current independently in each mode plus other minor improvements
 

Japuserid

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#6
Nearly purchased one of these, :p I really wanted to own this beautiful looking bike, geometry is bang on, reasonable spec and overall not bad value for money. Got to be amazing downhill. :D But we hired a Turbo Levo demo for a couple of days and unfortunately it really put me off.

The demo bike was a 2017 version with the older Brose motor, it was very nice to ride but, when directly compared to my current Bosch CX powered bike, it was very slow on the climbs.

Having both bikes together with a mate it soon became obvious that the Bosch would out climb the Brose and by quite a significant margin, even with the Brose in full power mode and pedaling our asses off, it would get easily dropped by the Bosch using only sport mode. In Turbo mode the Bosch just disappeared!

The dealer assured us the demo bike was fine but the new 2018 "S" motor would be 15% more powerful, :rolleyes: and IMHO it really would need to be but after a bit of research, I found out that specialized themselves admitted that the Kenevo was accepted to be a slower climber than the Levo, because of the added travel and weight etc...................................I decided to look elsewhere for my new bike.

So I never got to try the Kenevo on the down hills where I can only imagine it's superb. Perhaps, If I was 23 and not 53 and didn't ride in group who are always competitive as well as very talented mickey takers and I didn't live in an area with lots of hills, I probably would have bought one, but being left behind on every climb, while blowing out my ass to try and keep up is really not my idea of fun. :cry:
 
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Al Boneta

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#7
I’ll never understand why people complain about how slow an Emtb climbs. It’s still doing most of the work. The Kenevo still climbs faster than my 2016 and 2017 Levos.
 

Rob Hancill

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#8
I found out that specialized themselves admitted that the Kenevo was accepted to be a slower climber than the Levo, because of the added travel and weight etc.
Was there any link to this? Or was this in an interview/off the page conversation?
 

Japuserid

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#9
A
I’ll never understand why people complain about how slow an Emtb climbs. It’s still doing most of the work. The Kenevo still climbs faster than my 2016 and 2017 Levos.
From what you have said, it would appear that the demo bike we had was OK, its just the way the old motor was. Sounds like the new S motor is a lot stronger than the old motor. As you say the fact that your 2018 Kenevo climbs faster than your older Levos, which in truth it really shouldn't, only goes to demonstrate the the performance improvements claimed for the S motor are real. I would love to have tried one, but no demos were available and so I can only go by my experience of riding a demo 2017 levo.

At the end of the day its all relative, I've never thought of E-bikes as slow climbers, in fact quite the opposite, but clearly, some are much better climbers than others. Usually, but not always its a trade off, the better they are at ascending the worse they are at descending.

Long travel downhill vs Short or even no travel XC.

The 180 mm long travel Kenevo is clearly a more focused descender (say 80/20) and something it does extremely well by all accounts.

The point I am trying to make is that unfortunately, that ratio does not work for me, I want something that will let me keep up on the climbs and still gives me a fun ride on the downs, a 150/160 mm travel 60/40 type setup. :)
 

ccrdave

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#10
I have a 2017 levo and a just bought 2018 levo. 2018 is definitely faster and there are no cutbacks in power due to heat like the 2017.i do like the battery tune on the 2017 better though but battery life is much longer on the 2018.
As far as i know kenevo motor and battery is the same as the levo
 

Japuserid

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#11
Was there any link to this? Or was this in an interview/off the page conversation?
Hi Rob

I will do my best to find you the review, I read the article a while ago and it was the point at which I decided the Kenovo would be too much for me to pedal uphill even with 15% stronger motor support. So I stopped researching them. The comment was made by the Journalist referencing a conversation he had with a Specialized employee about the payback for having such large travel suspension. An age old engineering conundrum.
 

Rob Hancill

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#12
@Japuserid no worries if you cant find it, just interesting to hear them say that. I just got back from looking at the Kenevo in person. It is a beautiful bike, so well engineered and the green colour way looks amazing. Unfortunately they are sold out until March already, and April for the black!

The head mechanic has just got his delivered and (obviously) rates it highly. He mentioned that he had *heard* from a friend who works at Bosch that there is talk of them moving over to Bosch in the future. Take that as it is, just a rumour, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe Spec don’t want to be outgunned, they seem to be in the eMTB scene big time now and will want to get an early slice of market share.
 

Japuserid

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#13
Mission accomplished I think, they are very popular around us and so they should be they have got a really nice range of bikes on offer. If Bosch get their inevitable CX revamp right it would be a great alliance. I Have a Bosch CX at the moment and it has been great experience especially the Emtb update.

I will find that article for you it's out there somewhere :)
 

Japuserid

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#14
Well what do I know :( according to this test...........

The Kenevo is the same speed downhill as a Levo :confused::confused::unsure: cant be right, can it ?

And faster :eek: than the Levo uphill o_Oo_O WHAT!

I think the guy shot his bolt on the first climb with the Kenevo and had little left for the Levo.

 

Rob Hancill

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#15
Well what do I know :( according to this test...........

The Kenevo is the same speed downhill as a Levo :confused::confused::unsure: cant be right, can it ?

And faster :eek: than the Levo uphill o_Oo_O WHAT!

I think the guy shot his bolt on the first climb with the Kenevo and had little left for the Levo.

Interesting. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot of marketing going on here to avoid there being a clear winner as:
87f6aa9b-f8c6-411a-ae60-401df71f23ce-jpeg.101
They are sponsored by Specialized, win win, and I bet that the big S have invested a huge amount in the Kenevo and are marketing overtime at the moment to take an early slice of the mainstream EMTB pie 😉
 

Japuserid

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#16
I like the conspiracy theory :D Common sense dictates these results can't be right..................surely not!..................Long travel alloy framed bruiser V's mid travel Carbon framed carbon wheeled greyhound both with same Motor, how is that ever going to end in a draw. :unsure:
 

Rob Hancill

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#17
I like the conspiracy theory :D Common sense dictates these results can't be right..................surely not!..................Long travel alloy framed bruiser V's mid travel Carbon framed carbon wheeled greyhound both with same Motor, how is that ever going to end in a draw. :unsure:
Would be interested to hear @Al Boneta thoughs on this, I know he has both and worked in product development for Specialized!
 

Rob Hancill

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#18
Also, just a thought. I wonder if the engine tune is different on the Kenevo? If it has a different power curve then that could explain the strange result. A fairer test would be to ride them both up the hill with the motor turned off :eek:
 

Japuserid

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#19
Also, just a thought. I wonder if the engine tune is different on the Kenevo? If it has a different power curve then that could explain the strange result. A fairer test would be to ride them both up the hill with the motor turned off :eek:
Hell Rob :eek: that's a brilliant idea :devilish: But the question is ?

Are you a Masochist or a Sadist :confused:

Are you offering to ride it up hill, with the motor off yourself ? :oops: or are you proposing that someone else do it :LOL:

I think i'm defo a sadist in this scenario :D set it and I'll help watch :cool:

Any volunteers ?

:unsure: I know Kernow can't half peddle :)
 

Eckythump

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#20
You get the impression they only did one run on each bike. Would have been cool if they both did a few runs each and averaged out the times and also showed a battery usage comparison.
 

Al Boneta

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#21
Would be interested to hear @Al Boneta thoughs on this, I know he has both and worked in product development for Specialized!
I worked at Specialized long before the Levo existed

I own both of these bikes. The Kenevo geometry is more slack so it makes it less optimal for climbing. However the motor will get you up the hills just the same as it would on a Levo. But this can vary on terrain. On steeper more technical climbs the Levo is easier to manage, it’s lighter and has a lower center of gravity. Never attempt this type of climb in turbo mode, because with all that extra torque either bike will have a tendency to wheelie.

Descending on a smooth flowing single track, both bikes feel about the same speedwise.

But the riders in the above video were professionals. If they are riding a trail they ride all the time, they won’t go any faster on either bike, because they are already riding at the limit they can get any bike to go.

Most riders don’t ride at these same levels. So a bike with more travel will descend better to the amateur rider. I raced BMX and DH, so I have a really good skill set, but I am going to get smoked by any pro rider. I run in to pros like Brian Lopes, Richie Schley and Anneke Berteen all the time at my local trails and you see them for a few minutes and then they are gone. Brian Lopes beat my uphill with my bike on Turbo.

From my personal experience riding My Levos and my Kenevo, the Kenevo is definitely faster on technical downhills. It’s also more fun to jump. The reason I don’t ride mine that much is I have a brand new carbon S-Works and my orange Levo is set up so perfect for me I just reach for them first. I also have 29” wheels on those bikes which I prefer. There is not enough clearance on the Kenevo to fit 29” wheels and tires with any descent width.

The Bosch rumors are just that. A company like Specialized doesn’t invest millions in a carbon frame unless they plan on keeping it in production for a while. The molds alone can cost $150k per size. Four sizes? $600k and you haven’t factored in the engineering or manufacturing and material costs.
The other reason they are not switching to Bosch is the developed their own software for the Brose motor that they co developed with Brose. The 1.3 motor is not available on a Haibike, Bulls or any other manufacturers bikes.
I ride my bikes in the Eco mode at 20% assist. I don’t like the Bosch adaptive system because I have no choice in wether it changes modes or not. It’s like an automatic transmission in a car and those are no fun to drive at all.
 

Japuserid

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#22
The Bosch e-mtbt mode does not simply change modes, like an automatic gearbox, as you put it, it's far more subtle than that and of course you don't like it and that's because Specialized don't have anything like it on offer..........................................:eek:
 
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Japuserid

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#24
:LOL: Is that first aid equipment on the table :rolleyes: cause if that goes wrong I think they will need it! :eek:
 

Al Boneta

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#26
The Bosch e-mtbt mode does not simply change modes, like an automatic gearbox, as you put it, it's far more subtle than that and of course you don't like it and that's because Specialized don't have anything like it on offer..........................................:eek:
Glad you are on here to tell me what I like and don’t like or how I feel.
If you like it terrific. Lots of my customers like it.
I don’t like it because I just don’t like the way it feels.
It doesn’t make you wrong or me right. But not liking it doesn’t make me wrong either.

The biggest thing I like about the Levo is that it feels like a mountain bike when I ride it. I am not looking down at my handlebars and seeing a display and a birds nest of wires. The bike handles like the Stumpjumper it was based on. I don’t get that when I compare a Giant Full-E to a Giant Trance. The handling is weird on the Full-E.

I still sell plenty of other EMtbs in my shop.

My favorite is a bike I don’t even sell. Am I going to ride I bike I don’t sell? No it’s not in my best interest to do so.
 

Japuserid

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#28
Glad you are on here to tell me what I like and don’t like or how I feel.
If you like it terrific. Lots of my customers like it.
I don’t like it because I just don’t like the way it feels.
It doesn’t make you wrong or me right. But not liking it doesn’t make me wrong either.

The biggest thing I like about the Levo is that it feels like a mountain bike when I ride it. I am not looking down at my handlebars and seeing a display and a birds nest of wires. The bike handles like the Stumpjumper it was based on. I don’t get that when I compare a Giant Full-E to a Giant Trance. The handling is weird on the Full-E.

I still sell plenty of other EMtbs in my shop.

My favorite is a bike I don’t even sell. Am I going to ride I bike I don’t sell? No it’s not in my best interest to do so.
Couldn't agree more, I'm sure the Levo is a wonderful bike and I've never said any different, however........

You said " I don’t like the Bosch adaptive system because I have no choice in wether it changes modes or not". "It’s like an automatic transmission in a car"

Really? have you ever actually ridden with it ? You do know that adaptive means? The harder you pedal the more support the motor provides, its progressive not incremental, nothing like changing modes or gears.
 
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Al Boneta

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#29
Couldn't agree more, I'm sure the Levo is a wonderful bike and I've never said any different, however........

You said " I don’t like the Bosch adaptive system because I have no choice in wether it changes modes or not". "It’s like an automatic transmission in a car"

Really? have you ever actually ridden with it ? You do know that adaptive means? The harder you pedal the more support the motor provides, its progressive not incremental, nothing like changing modes or gears.
I have of them in the showroom right now. I don’t like it. You’ll just have to get the fuck over it
 

Japuserid

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#30
I have of them in the showroom right now. I don’t like it. You’ll just have to get the fuck over it
Nice , love your use of language (n)

Perhaps if you took one out of the showroom and rode it, you would at least understand how it works.......:poop:
 



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