Low-end Trek vs Specialized vs Giant vs Scott

[hemismith]

My wife and I are looking at low-end electric mountain bikes for mild trails and dirt/gravel roads. I want to stick with known brands, as well as something locally that we can see and try, which I believe limits us to the above-mentioned brands. We initially settled on either the Specialized Tero 3.0 or Scott Aspect eRide 940, very similar and on sale for $2250 and $2k respectively. But both only have a 50 Nm motor and lower-end drivetrains with a limited gear range, which concerns me on hills. So we looked at the Trek Powerfly 4 Gen 4 (on sale for $3k), but it just didn't feel right.

Now my wife thinks I should get a full suspension because I have a bad disc in my back and it gets aggravated easily. The cheapest options I've found are the Giant Stance E+ 2 ($3200) and Specialized Tero X 4.0 ($3750 but the dealer said he would give me an additional discount). The Giant has much better specs, but the local dealer is very small and doesn't stock that model, although they do have a Stance E+ 1 Pro, so I will look at that. The Scott and Trek equivalents are too much. The Specialized has the same motor as the Tero 3.0, but a cheaper drivetrain, although more gears. I assume I could upgrade the drivetrain at some point if I want however. One thing I don't like is the additional weight of FS bikes.

My main question is about reliability. It seems the Bosch motors (Scott, Trek) are the best, I've read of issues with the Spec and Giant motors. But I would welcome any feedback on your opinion of what we should get. Thanks.

 

[mustclime]

NEW GASGAS G ENDURO 1.0 Electric Assist E Mountain Bike | eBay

Bicycle DrivetrainTektro SL-M350R, Tektro CS-M350, 11-46 T, GASGAS, Narrow Wide, 38 T, KMC e9S. Front WheelRim: Mach 1 TRUCKY 30, With eyelets, Tubeless ready / Hub: GASGAS DA210F, 6-hole, 15x110 mm, thru axle.

www.ebay.com

Maybe gas gas?

 

[Julie_X1]

Front suspension only bikes are not popular as e-mountain bikes. They are quite heavy (especially the entry level ones) and that weight going over bumps is not comfortable.

The new 2024 Giant Stance e-bikes seem to have good reviews for an entry level full suspension. Note: The 2023 and older ones (which you can find on sale) - not really.

I would get that or the Tero X.

Trek also has the new Marlin+. I would still recommend a full suspension but this Bosch equipped Trek looks better than the Powerfly to me.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

That Trek Powerfly 4/4 is a great deal and is the only one of the bunch with Bosch's latest gen 4.5(?) "Smart System". This gets you the newest refinements and will keep you in the current/recent tech range for as long as possible. Trek has mastered frame geometry as well as the rest of them and this is a very standard configuration so if it felt weird, perhaps it just needed some fiddling. This is probably the lightest bike on your list and the side-access battery makes it even more convenient to travel with if that's a concern. It's also the only one that cannot be hacked to assist over 20mph.

Forget that Scott, the Bosch gen 3 motor is ancient and nothing else about it stands out.

The Specialized Tero hardtail is a very well-made bike with basic/minimal components. The Tero X is equally well made but loaded with lights, bells, fenders, dropper post, kickstand, etc. Low end parts on both, but also low power (50Nm) motors on both. You'll break a sweat on steep streets and be power-limited on steep trails instead of wheelie-limited, but you did say "mild trails." Note that they go 28mph, are super quiet, and have the best user interface of the bunch.

The Giant is also a great brand, great deal, and is the only one on your list that's a "full-capability" eMTB. Full suspension, full power, full size brakes, full knobby tires, etc. You'll be glad you chose this one when you hit that knarly rock garden, but for "mild trails" it might not be as ideal.

Most of the bikes on your list lack a dropper post which is a fantastic upgrade to consider. Note that some companies even make dropper posts with air suspension which might make a hardtail more appealing.

And to finally answer your question, Bosch seems to have the largest market share but they don't seem to have an equally large number of reported failures. Whereas Brose (Specialized) and Yamaha (Giant) seem to have somewhat less favorable sales/failure ratios but only as far as internet speculation can be trusted.

 

[hemismith]

NEW GASGAS G ENDURO 1.0 Electric Assist E Mountain Bike | eBay

Bicycle DrivetrainTektro SL-M350R, Tektro CS-M350, 11-46 T, GASGAS, Narrow Wide, 38 T, KMC e9S. Front WheelRim: Mach 1 TRUCKY 30, With eyelets, Tubeless ready / Hub: GASGAS DA210F, 6-hole, 15x110 mm, thru axle.

www.ebay.com

Maybe gas gas?

Thanks, I'm not familiar with that but will look into it more.

 

[hemismith]

Front suspension only bikes are not popular as e-mountain bikes. They are quite heavy (especially the entry level ones) and that weight going over bumps is not comfortable.

The new 2024 Giant Stance e-bikes seem to have good reviews for an entry level full suspension. Note: The 2023 and older ones (which you can find on sale) - not really.

I would get that or the Tero X.

Trek also has the new Marlin+. I would still recommend a full suspension but this Bosch equipped Trek looks better than the Powerfly to me.

Thanks, good to know. I didn't think about the weight aspect, but I figured full suspension would be better for resale regardless. Yes, I read that Giant made some big improvements with the latest version, so I'll have to make sure I'm looking at the right one; I think the frame has some obvious differences.

I saw the Marlin but my local dealer didn't have it in stock so I dropped it from my list. In looking at Trek's website I see a number of really nice bikes on huge discounts, but I might have to drive a bit to see one.

 

[hemismith]

That Trek Powerfly 4/4 is a great deal and is the only one of the bunch with Bosch's latest gen 4.5(?) "Smart System". This gets you the newest refinements and will keep you in the current/recent tech range for as long as possible. Trek has mastered frame geometry as well as the rest of them and this is a very standard configuration so if it felt weird, perhaps it just needed some fiddling. This is probably the lightest bike on your list and the side-access battery makes it even more convenient to travel with if that's a concern. It's also the only one that cannot be hacked to assist over 20mph.

Forget that Scott, the Bosch gen 3 motor is ancient and nothing else about it stands out.

The Specialized Tero hardtail is a very well-made bike with basic/minimal components. The Tero X is equally well made but loaded with lights, bells, fenders, dropper post, kickstand, etc. Low end parts on both, but also low power (50Nm) motors on both. You'll break a sweat on steep streets and be power-limited on steep trails instead of wheelie-limited, but you did say "mild trails." Note that they go 28mph, are super quiet, and have the best user interface of the bunch.

The Giant is also a great brand, great deal, and is the only one on your list that's a "full-capability" eMTB. Full suspension, full power, full size brakes, full knobby tires, etc. You'll be glad you chose this one when you hit that knarly rock garden, but for "mild trails" it might not be as ideal.

Most of the bikes on your list lack a dropper post which is a fantastic upgrade to consider. Note that some companies even make dropper posts with air suspension which might make a hardtail more appealing.

And to finally answer your question, Bosch seems to have the largest market share but they don't seem to have an equally large number of reported failures. Whereas Brose (Specialized) and Yamaha (Giant) seem to have somewhat less favorable sales/failure ratios but only as far as internet speculation can be trusted.

Yeah I that I heard about the newer Trek interface being a lot better. I thought it odd that that it was connected via bluetooth though and not hardwired, more prone to issues it seems. I had read that the Specialized was best, and what I saw I liked although I didn't really get to play with either.

The Trek seat tube angle is less, which for us is probably not a good thing; my back does better with a more upright position. But my wife's problem was that she didn't feel like she had enough leg extension with the seat at the theoretical proper height, and that her knees came up too high when peddling. Maybe that was a function of the seat tube angle as well, I don't know. But we raised the seat and it was somewhat better. I have to learn more about geometry. As a rule the aggressive riding position of a mountain back is not what we are after, and we thought about some of the regular ebikes that can sort of go off road, but most are heavy and don't seem like they would be good for it.

The main issue with the Trek is it just didn't fell as smooth or nimble or responsive as the others, even though it's the lightest and most powerful. I've seen others express a similar opinion. Good to know about the battery access though, I heard the Specialized are a little bit of a pain. And good to know about the Scott motor.

I'm concerned about the SRAM SX Eagle components on the Tero X; the SX is much maligned but not sure if the Eagle is better. But that can be replaced I guess if needed. Yes, most likely mild trails, but that doesn't mean we won't hit a good bump here and there and wish we had a full suspension. We were planning on getting a suspension seatpost though. I know the Tero X is not a "full" full suspension, single pivot point instead of dual, but I think it's sufficient for our needs. The motor is wimpy but it has a wide range of gears as well as a smaller rear tire. It also has a dropper post, which I've never used but people seem to like.

I just saw that the Trek E-Caliber 9.6 Gen 2 is on sale in my price range and really light, which is something I would like for my back, but it sounds like the Fazua motor is problematic.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Seat tube angles are not so critical since you can adjust the seat fore/aft by some amount and change the handlebars fore/aft by any amount. Your seating position is mostly determined by the handlebar height and reach, both of which are determined by a very cheap (<$40) stem which is simple to swap. Sit on the bike and hold your fists out where you're comfortable and then imagine what stem and/or bar dimensions will get you there.

The Powerfly is available as a full 27.5" or a full 29", depending on frame size and I'd guess you rode the 29" because a full 27.5" hardtail should be considerably more nimble than anything else on your list. Seating position can also play a large role in handling too. If your seat is too low or arms are too extended then the bike may feel sluggish.

You have a good list of bikes here and were right to rule out the "sort of off road" category. But the drawback is that they're not universal-fit comfort cruisers, you'll need to make some adjustments.

SRAM SX is fine and the 12-speed gets you a crazy-low granny gear along with a high enough top gear to hit 28mph. The big issue with SX is that it's a different architecture than all the rest so you can't just easily upgrade one or two key components. The Tero X single-pivot suspension is fine and makes a lot of sense for an e-bike where you're not so concerned about pedal bobbing.

The Caliber is a gorgeous carbon fiber piece of art and an incredible bargain as it's a pro-level ultralight competition bike being clearanced out at an amateur price point. This is absolutely the "best" e-bike you can buy in this price range, but it's only barely an e-bike and might not have enough power or range for what you're seeking. I'd expect the 50Nm Fazua drive to be much weaker than a 50Nm Specialized, and the 250Wh battery to offer even less than half the range of a competing 500Wh alternative. Plus, it's about as far as you can get from your original focus on power and reliability.

 

[hemismith]

Seat tube angles are not so critical since you can adjust the seat fore/aft by some amount and change the handlebars fore/aft by any amount. Your seating position is mostly determined by the handlebar height and reach, both of which are determined by a very cheap (<$40) stem which is simple to swap. Sit on the bike and hold your fists out where you're comfortable and then imagine what stem and/or bar dimensions will get you there.

The Powerfly is available as a full 27.5" or a full 29", depending on frame size and I'd guess you rode the 29" because a full 27.5" hardtail should be considerably more nimble than anything else on your list. Seating position can also play a large role in handling too. If your seat is too low or arms are too extended then the bike may feel sluggish.

You have a good list of bikes here and were right to rule out the "sort of off road" category. But the drawback is that they're not universal-fit comfort cruisers, you'll need to make some adjustments.

SRAM SX is fine and the 12-speed gets you a crazy-low granny gear along with a high enough top gear to hit 28mph. The big issue with SX is that it's a different architecture than all the rest so you can't just easily upgrade one or two key components. The Tero X single-pivot suspension is fine and makes a lot of sense for an e-bike where you're not so concerned about pedal bobbing.

The Caliber is a gorgeous carbon fiber piece of art and an incredible bargain as it's a pro-level ultralight competition bike being clearanced out at an amateur price point. This is absolutely the "best" e-bike you can buy in this price range, but it's only barely an e-bike and might not have enough power or range for what you're seeking. I'd expect the 50Nm Fazua drive to be much weaker than a 50Nm Specialized, and the 250Wh battery to offer even less than half the range of a competing 500Wh alternative. Plus, it's about as far as you can get from your original focus on power and reliability.

Thank you for the great information. Yes, the Powerfly was the 29". I figured we could probably change out parts to adjust the handlebar height so good to know. And good to know about the SX, I'll have to give that some thought. The Tero X is a little heavier than the others as well; I'd remove the fenders although they probably don't weigh much.

I initially didn't see the small battery on the Caliber. Maybe that isn't the best option for us despite the amazing price. I am not as concerned about power as my wife though, but I might think differently on a big hill on a hot day.

 

[irie]

... but I might think differently on a big hill on a hot day.

You and your wife certainly would when faced with your third big hill on a hot day

 

[hemismith]

SRAM SX is fine and the 12-speed gets you a crazy-low granny gear along with a high enough top gear to hit 28mph. The big issue with SX is that it's a different architecture than all the rest so you can't just easily upgrade one or two key components.

Learning a little more about drivetrains. I guess the main difference is the hub, which affects which cassettes you can use. But it sounds like the derailleur and shifter can be upgraded ok?

The Giant has Deore components, but the Linkglide version, which has only one cassette available. To get 11 speeds I assume I would have to change out everything (except the shifter), and 12 speeds would require a different hub. I wonder if they'll come out with another option someday.

Trek also has the Rail 5 Gen 2 on sale for less than the Powerfly FS Gen 2, but hard to find any left and it has the old computer.

 

[irie]

Learning a little more about drivetrains. I guess the main difference is the hub, which affects which cassettes you can use. But it sounds like the derailleur and shifter can be upgraded ok?

The Giant has Deore components, but the Linkglide version, which has only one cassette available. To get 11 speeds I assume I would have to change out everything (except the shifter), and 12 speeds would require a different hub. I wonder if they'll come out with another option someday.

Trek also has the Rail 5 Gen 2 on sale for less than the Powerfly FS Gen 2, but hard to find any left and it has the old computer.

Wife and I have (much upgraded 2022) Trek Rail 5 Gen 2 which we like because there are no more software upgrades which can break the system - basic but does what we want. Bosch motor, Shimano drivetrain and brakes.

 

[hemismith]

Wife and I have (much upgraded 2022) Trek Rail 5 Gen 2 which we like because there are no more software upgrades which can break the system - basic but does what we want. Bosch motor, Shimano drivetrain and brakes.

Good point, sometimes the old tried and true systems are better.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Don't worry about the number of gears, the motor greatly reduces the need for granny gears and it's pointless to try to pedal beyond the 20mph limit so you don't need much of a top gear either. 10 speeds is fine and if you find that you need a lower *or* higher gear (not both) you can simply slap a different size chainring on there to shift the whole range.

Rail5 is a legit full-capability bike with rather decent components. Definitely a great choice and a great value at that price. The older Bosch Gen4 motor/computer/battery is exactly the same as the latest "Smart System" generation, but completely different. If that doesn't make sense to you, then you apparently don't work for Bosch. There are plenty available in my region so you should be able to mail order what you like if need be. Both Trek and Specialized have a fantastic 30 day money back guarantee which makes online ordering risk free.

 

[irie]

Both Trek and Specialized have a fantastic 30 day money back guarantee which makes online ordering risk free.

We bought online but have a Trek LBS just 20 minutes from us (who at the time didn't have stock), but we've had no warranty claims or failures since getting the two Rail 5's in January 2022. But they are there in case we need them - we do get them to check the bikes out once a year.

 

[hemismith]

Don't worry about the number of gears, the motor greatly reduces the need for granny gears and it's pointless to try to pedal beyond the 20mph limit so you don't need much of a top gear either. 10 speeds is fine and if you find that you need a lower *or* higher gear (not both) you can simply slap a different size chainring on there to shift the whole range.

Rail5 is a legit full-capability bike with rather decent components. Definitely a great choice and a great value at that price. The older Bosch Gen4 motor/computer/battery is exactly the same as the latest "Smart System" generation, but completely different. If that doesn't make sense to you, then you apparently don't work for Bosch. There are plenty available in my region so you should be able to mail order what you like if need be. Both Trek and Specialized have a fantastic 30 day money back guarantee which makes online ordering risk free.

Thanks, after much agonizing that's also the conclusion I came to yesterday (that the motor is more important than the gears), but I appreciate the confirmation.

We looked at Giant yesterday; they only had a Stance Pro in stock, but the frame is the same so we felt the test ride of it was close enough and ordered the Giant Stance E+ 1. The Pro has the slightly better motor as well as 12-speed, fairly comparable to the Rail, but my wife didn't want to spend the extra $1k for the two of them. But she was willing spend the $600 to get the 1 over the 2 for the dropper seatpost, which I was glad, and it has a few other things as well. The computer display is horrible though.

However, now you have me thinking about the Rail again, as I can still cancel the order. It's a little cheaper and probably a little better than the Giant Pro, and certainly better resale and maybe better service, I don't know. It's also much lighter, which is a big plus for me. The problem is we didn't want to drive 4 hours to see one, but next week we are going up to Salt Lake City, and there are a couple up there. But I mentioned it to my wife and she is a little tired of talking about and looking at bikes and doesn't want to do it.

To complicate things, a neighbor told me last night he wants to sell his Turbo Levo Carbon, for $3500. But I was surprised to see it also only has the SRAM SX drivetrain; something like that ought to have a GX or better.

 

[hemismith]

We bought online but have a Trek LBS just 20 minutes from us (who at the time didn't have stock), but we've had no warranty claims or failures since getting the two Rail 5's in January 2022. But they are there in case we need them - we do get them to check the bikes out once a year.

Thanks, yes, I could do that but we really don't want to buy without trying.

 

[hemismith]

Another good option I found is the Cannondale Moterra 3, on sale for $4k. Similar specs to the Rail but no one near me has it.

 

[irie]

Thanks, yes, I could do that but we really don't want to buy without trying.

Do Bicycles Unlimited have any Rails or other eMTBs you could try?

 

[hemismith]

Do Bicycles Unlimited have any Rails or other eMTBs you could try?

I tried to get my wife to go there yesterday, but after looking at the Giant she didn't want to look anymore. They have a Powerfly FS, but since it was $4k she didn't want to look at it, and she didn't like the regular Powerfly. Plus the Rail has better specs and is cheaper.

I just realized maybe another model uses the same frame that we could try. Looks like the Rail 7 Gen 2 does, but no one here has that either. But another store has both a medium and large Rail 5 Gen 3. All the frame specs are the same. Rats, I wish I would have thought to try it. I don't know if I can get her down there, probably not, and not sure she will spend the extra $600, but I think it would be worth it.

 

[hemismith]

Well, after I wrote the above, I looked to see where my wife was because I wanted to go look at the Trek, and she happened to be getting a massage at the same mall where the shop is that had the bike. So I raced over there and got her to look at it. She said it was fine, although she also said she felt like she was having to lean forward more.

The hard part is it's hard to compare unless they are side by side and adjusted the same. So I'm trying to compare the geometry; it seems the stack and reach are the most important ones for us, the issue being we are not aggressive and like a more upright posture (I know, not mountain bike like). For her bike the measurements are almost the same. The seat angle is within a degree (which doesn't make some difference I think).

I was just about to order the Treks but now she says she wants to stick with the Giant. The Trek is clearly a better value for the money, but my biggest considerations are the reliability, service, and resale. Not sure about the first two, hopefully they are similar, but the resale on the Giant concerns me. Also, Trek has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee I believe, with Giant you can only return if it it's new (under 10 miles).

	Stance	Rail		Stance	Rail
	M	M Low	M High		L	L Low	L High
Stack	627​	626​	622​	Almost the same	636​	630​	627​	Giant a bit taller
Reach	450​	445​	450​	Almost the same	480​	465​	470​	Giant more

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Consider some higher rise handlebars for whatever you choose. Bikes in this category can climb/descend some pretty amazing inclines and the included wide, flat, straight handlebars help make this possible - at the expense of comfort. Higher rise and higher backsweep bars are generally more comfortable.

Browse the infinite variety here:

https://www.jensonusa.com/Mountain-Bars?HandlebarDiameter=31.8mm

Or seek out even more tailored styles like this:

Handlebar 302 3.0 - 31.8

The 302 Comfort Touring Handlebar - Version 2.0 has been designed for touring bikes that are primarily ridden on the road. The traditional North Road shape with 10° downsweep represents a natural position and relieves especially the neck and shoulders. 31.8 clamp diameter.

sqlab-usa.com

Also note that bikes have grown dramatically larger in the last decade because of the huge increases in suspension travel, huge wheels, and now, huge batteries, so you might find that smaller sizes fit you/her better.

 

[hemismith]

Consider some higher rise handlebars for whatever you choose. Bikes in this category can climb/descend some pretty amazing inclines and the included wide, flat, straight handlebars help make this possible - at the expense of comfort. Higher rise and higher backsweep bars are generally more comfortable.

Also note that bikes have grown dramatically larger in the last decade because of the huge increases in suspension travel, huge wheels, and now, huge batteries, so you might find that smaller sizes fit you/her better.

Thanks, I did notice that although in some respects the XL was the better size, I was more comfortable on the L. I looked at some handlebars and stems at the Giant dealer but they had limited options and it didn't seem that it would help much. But thanks for the links, a lot more options. But the stock cables will limit how much I can change.

I noticed also that the wheelbase of the XL was slightly longer than the max for the rack we were looking at; I assume when they designed the rack bikes weren't as long.

 

[irie]

Well, after I wrote the above, I looked to see where my wife was because I wanted to go look at the Trek, and she happened to be getting a massage at the same mall where the shop is that had the bike. So I raced over there and got her to look at it. She said it was fine, although she also said she felt like she was having to lean forward more.

...

We're grandparents and we put higher bars on our Rails, far more comfortable. With assistance climbing is easy on eMTBs. Wife is 5'7" and Rail 5 Medium fits her perfectly, I'm 5'10" and have a Rail 5 Large. Put 35mm rise bars with 12° sweep on both our bikes, just right. My bars are cut to 770mm and her are cut to 730mm which she loves. Bikes are generally supplied to look good in the showroom but won't be comfortable for many people. I think Trek Rail 7 is the "sweet spot" in Trek Rail alloy bikes, good equipment level with decent wheels.

 

[Julie_X1]

You also can have different bikes, if you prefer the Rail. She can have the Giant, you can pick the Rail.

On my Trek Exe, I replaced both the stem and the handlebar to get a total of 50mm rise. It does not look out of place at all.
- Bontrager (Trek) Elite stem with 13 degree rise
- OneUp carbon handlebar with 35mm rise.

Perfect now.

 

[hemismith]

We're grandparents and we put higher bars on our Rails, far more comfortable. With assistance climbing is easy on eMTBs. Wife is 5'7" and Rail 5 Medium fits her perfectly, I'm 5'10" and have a Rail 5 Large. Put 35mm rise bars with 12° sweep on both our bikes, just right. My bars are cut to 770mm and her are cut to 730mm which she loves. Bikes are generally supplied to look good in the showroom but won't be comfortable for many people. I think Trek Rail 7 is the "sweet spot" in Trek Rail alloy bikes, good equipment level with decent wheels.

You also can have different bikes, if you prefer the Rail. She can have the Giant, you can pick the Rail.

On my Trek Exe, I replaced both the stem and the handlebar to get a total of 50mm rise. It does not look out of place at all.
- Bontrager (Trek) Elite stem with 13 degree rise
- OneUp carbon handlebar with 35mm rise.

Perfect now.

Thanks everyone. Good to know that we should be able to raise the bars a bit; I was wondering if it would look really bad.

We were talking about getting different bikes, but I would feel guilty having a nicer more expensive bike, and it might be be more complicated to try to cancel just my bike instead of the whole thing but not sure. Yesterday afternoon I asked them if the order was going out Monday as they said, but then when I said I wanted to alter it, they said it had already gone and they'd have to call Giant. Weird. I will try to convince my wife one more time and then decide.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Generally every bike in this category will come stock with a stem that's 50mm long and 0-deg rise, fitted to a 1-1/4" steerer tube and 31.8mm bar. So if you get a replacement with a high angle (e.g. 35deg) but keep the length short, you can use the stem to gain an inch or so of height, which is more significant and noticeable than you might expect. See Amazon B0B55WKGQS for example.

You only need a couple of allen keys and 10 minutes worth of beer to swap stems, it's super simple, and they're so cheap that there's no reason not to experiment.

Swapping handlebars is twice as difficult as the stem - you need 4 allen keys and half a beer. But there's almost always ample cable length available.

If you tend to ride fast on flat ground you may be bumping against the 20mph speed limiter a lot, so having similar bikes might make it easier to keep in sync with each other. This is a non-issue with even the mildest hills though.

 

[CraigR]

I have had a giant Stance EMTB for the past 3.5 years. I have loved it and had zero issues with it. I just bought a new Trance Advanced E+. The Stance I have has a 625 watt battery and 60Nm Yamaha motor. I have not had any issues with the motor or battery. I ride 2-4 times a week almost year round (Jan/Feb get a little dicey with the rains here in N. Ca) about 15-25 miles per ride. The main thing that made me move from it to the Trance was the travel on the shocks. But I ride more than "mild" trails. The Stance, even on the harder trails does just fine.

For your wife, have you looked at the Liv bikes from Giant? They are specifically made for women, with geometries that are supposed to better fit women.

In general, I would not worry so much about what you read about issues with one brand or another or one motor or another. Remember, for everyone 1 person on a site like this that complains, there are probably hundreds or even thousands ore 10's of thousands of folks that have the same bike/motor with no issues. Just get the bike you want, you will have fun with it and enjoy it.

 

[hemismith]

Generally every bike in this category will come stock with a stem that's 50mm long and 0-deg rise, fitted to a 1-1/4" steerer tube and 31.8mm bar. So if you get a replacement with a high angle (e.g. 35deg) but keep the length short, you can use the stem to gain an inch or so of height, which is more significant and noticeable than you might expect. See Amazon B0B55WKGQS for example.

You only need a couple of allen keys and 10 minutes worth of beer to swap stems, it's super simple, and they're so cheap that there's no reason not to experiment.

Swapping handlebars is twice as difficult as the stem - you need 4 allen keys and half a beer. But there's almost always ample cable length available.

Thanks. I feel a little stupid but our current bikes are old Giant hybrid bikes, and the stem is one sold vertical and horizontal piece combined. I don't know what you call that. Until I went to the store I didn't realize that now the stem is just the horizontal piece; I thought I could just get a taller stem, but apparently the equivalent would be a steerer tube extender.

The stem on these bikes is 40mm for hers and 50mm for mine, the Tero's was longer. Ideally I'd get one that is both closer and taller (shorter and angled), but you really can only have either closer or taller, and the taller you want it the the longer it needs to be, which puts it farther forward. So I'll see what I can find. But I agree than an inch if it's not farther away, as that is generally the difference between the bikes I have tried and I could feel it.

I'll have to get the measurements on the handlebars, Giant doesn't provide that in the specs like some do.

 

[hemismith]

I have had a giant Stance EMTB for the past 3.5 years. I have loved it and had zero issues with it. I just bought a new Trance Advanced E+. The Stance I have has a 625 watt battery and 60Nm Yamaha motor. I have not had any issues with the motor or battery. I ride 2-4 times a week almost year round (Jan/Feb get a little dicey with the rains here in N. Ca) about 15-25 miles per ride. The main thing that made me move from it to the Trance was the travel on the shocks. But I ride more than "mild" trails. The Stance, even on the harder trails does just fine.

For your wife, have you looked at the Liv bikes from Giant? They are specifically made for women, with geometries that are supposed to better fit women.

In general, I would not worry so much about what you read about issues with one brand or another or one motor or another. Remember, for everyone 1 person on a site like this that complains, there are probably hundreds or even thousands ore 10's of thousands of folks that have the same bike/motor with no issues. Just get the bike you want, you will have fun with it and enjoy it.

Thanks, this is encouraging. Yeah, I saw that the Rail had more travel, but I think the Giant has more than enough for us.

We did see the Liv bikes at the Giant dealer, I had forgotten about them. I would have liked to get one for her, but the identical bike was $400 more. The mechanical specs are the same but I didn't even think about the geometry. Looking at it now I see that it is indeed a little more upright -- the height and angles are more or less the same but the top tube length is shorter so the reach is shorter, although the stem is longer. And of course a little less standover height is better. They had one in small that she tried but not for size. It seems like it would be more ideal for her, and of course the color is nicer (anything is nicer than black). I wonder if I should try to switch the order to that without telling her.

	Stance	Liv
Top Tube Length	607​	595​
Wheelbase	1233​	1215​
Reach	450​	437​
Stand Over Height	760​	735​
Stem Length	40​	50​