Gearbox EMTB's that you can buy (+IGH bikes)

Zimmerframe

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There seem to be several manufacturers now developing motors with integrated gearboxes, such as Valeo with the combined Effigear box (7 speeds/450%) at 4.9kg's but with 130nm of torque (More than the TQ HPR 120S) !!

Heritage bikes were the first to release an EMTB using the Valeo system with the Altitude a 170mm/160mm bike with 630wh battery and unique looks:

1680949769106.png



Basic Spec :

  • Frame: Carbon front triangle Aluminum rear triangle
  • Fork: BOS Suspension - Idylle 39 SC - 150 mm travel
  • Shock: BOS Suspension - Stoy 3 - 150 mm travel
  • Engine: Cyclee by Valeo - 130 Nm of torque
  • Gearbox: 7 automatic or sequential gears
  • Battery: Cyclee by Valeo, 630 Wh - Removable
  • Range: 100 km with a single charge, to be modulated according to the use.
  • Lock: Anti-theft system integrated into the Valeo engine
  • GPS tracker / Alarm (102db) : Mobitrax Velco + mobile application Ateliers HeritageBike
  • Computeur: Cyclee by Valeo, bluetooth, USB port
  • Handlebars: Ergotec RISER BAR
  • Handles: Con-Tec
  • Control handle: Cyclee by Valeo
  • Saddle: Fizik - Terra Aidon X3 Black
  • Dropper seatpost: Manitou Jack - 160 mm travel
  • Brakes: Front and rear / Magura MT7 Pro - 4 pistons / 203 mm disc
  • Wheels: Mavic E-Deemax
  • Tires: Schwalbe - Eddy Current 27.5 x 2.8
  • Frame color: Green pearl AHB or Black
  • Weight: 25-26 kg

Cavalerie are also developing a Valeo based bike, here's the prototype, but it doesn't appear to be for sale yet :

1680950335948.png




Revonte, with the Revonte ONE system (200nm !!!!! with twin motors to compensate for gearing) looks like a really neat and compact solution, but I've only seen it prototyped on the Titanium Pässilä.

Nice video explaining how the Revonte One works :


1680950535118.png
 
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Bones

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It will be interesting to try the variable transmission in real life. It never really took off in the motor industry.
The valeo motor could be very good as they have been making vehicle components for years, then again so have bosch 🤔
 

Zimmerframe

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A bit of a mini ride of it ..

I've set it to start at 7:32 as before that he's just trundling it up and down the road.

It's in French, but there are English Subtitles available (you may have to turn them on).

There's also a bit more after he rides as it's a prototype unit so he had more feedback from Valeo.

 

V86

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The one that looks most promising is the Revonte system. Just to bad it will depend on the bike manufacture to build their frame around it.
Maby @leo_kokkonen should make a Pole Voima with the REvonte motor? A Finnish motor on a Finnish bike that has a frame screams “put a belt drive on me!” is a match made in heaven.
With the pole frame you don`t have to split up the frame to put a gates belt drive system on it( like you have to with the Nicolai Eboxx E14 and 3X3 bikes).


Intra-drive made theirs with the same mounting as the shimano EP8. That opens up for retrofitting. But it`s been awfully quite from them.
 
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Zimmerframe

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make a Pole Voima with the REvonte motor?
Might be the easiest bike to convert. With the way the bike is made it's not impossible to switch around, as they did (thankfully) from the Brose to the Bosch.

Probably have their hands full as things are, would be interesting as a demo bike though.

The Nicolai eboxx 3x3 is very cool with some amazing attention to detail.

The 3x3 hub looks interesting, would be interesting to ride one. On the downside, you simplify one side of the bike and the other side seems to have a large increase in complexity, not sure how all that would fare in real life - hopefully well ..

1681069553527.png
 
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Zimmerframe

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There's still not much about Revonte .. Apparently the systems will be built by "hGears AG" and actual production of units was due to start first quarter of this year with small deliveries beginning 2nd quarter and the aim for larger supplies in 24.

There is a prototype MV Augusta gravel bike :

1681125973696.png


On the EMTB front, there's nothing visible but there was this on their facebook page :

1681125833010.png


Tunturi seems to be the only other company that you can trace they're working with. But no news from there either.

Short video of a test bike being ridden with it, I think on the Tunturi R1 Smartbike concept in 2020 :

 

maynard

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There's still not much about Revonte .. Apparently the systems will be built by "hGears AG" and actual production of units was due to start first quarter of this year with small deliveries beginning 2nd quarter and the aim for larger supplies in 24.

There is a prototype MV Augusta gravel bike :

View attachment 111280

On the EMTB front, there's nothing visible but there was this on their facebook page :

View attachment 111278

Tunturi seems to be the only other company that you can trace they're working with. But no news from there either.

Short video of a test bike being ridden with it, I think on the Tunturi R1 Smartbike concept in 2020 :

I'd hurt myself on that racer after a few beers . Mtn bikes r som much more forgiving too rider error .
 

V86

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Revonte seems to be a perfect match for a Full Suspension bike. The low unsprung weight on the rear wheel will defenetly have it`s benefits. To bad they havn`t tried it out yet.

 

Waynemarlow

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It will be interesting to try the variable transmission in real life. It never really took off in the motor industry.
Mitsubishi, Nissan,Subaru, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, GM and others seem to think otherwise. Most drivers using any of the Jap cars with auto boxes probably don't even realise its a CVT box as the computer controls a step change to imitate a gear change. My Scooby will go from 0 - 135mph absolutely seamlessly or over 8 stepped gear changes in sport mode.
 

Zimmerframe

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Rather than a combined motor/gearbox, another bike using a motor and IGH like the Nicolai EBOXX is the Cybro Industries "No. 7" ..

I'm Sure @Doomanic will love the looks here.......

1681372270965.png


Probably better known for their Pinion Gearbox Drive No.6 carbon bike, developed with a frame designed to conform to the expected water bottle cage ban .......

Cybro Industries No. 6 .png



Rohloff 14 speed hub, Intend Infinity Inverted Forks (215mm - @Plummet), Sacks 110nm 48v Motor, 630wh battery.

Promo video - probably not a good idea to watch it if you're epileptic or have drunk too much beer.

 

V86

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IMG_1418.jpeg

The Pole Voima would be cool with a belt drive.
With a Kindernay Vii or even a gearbox/motor option like the Revonte One.
Have anyone though of putting a kindernay VII and Gates Belt drive on the Voima? I would love to see someone try. @Rob Rides EMTB and @leo_kokkonen are you up for it?😅 Maby get Kindernay and Gates as a sponsor for the video?
Both the Voima and the Orange Phase MX has a good frame for a belt. (No need to split the frame to put the belt on)

It suprices me that a combined gearbox-motor isn’t really an option yet (the very few bikes that have it doesn’t tickle my interest on other specs :/)
It’s almost like they want to keep the dereileur, chain and casset to be able to sell parts when they break 😅
On regular mtb I can see the «efficency problem» for a belt and gearbox/hub (as long as you have a new and clean setup), but on EMTBs?

And Electric Cars don’t need a gearbox, So why do EMTBs even need it?
I would guess it is a weight, range and regulations thing? And It’s a slippery slope to get a «moped» label slapped on them? As if the hardcore MTB only crowd and public opinion isn’t hating enough on the eMTBs.
For me it seems like the Revonte with their planatary gear setup with two motors working together is the way to go. To bad they haven’t really caught on yet.
I think that is a better way to do it than my own litle wishfull concept I draw of a Digital Drive system ( Combined Generator/motor combo).

IMG_1401.jpeg

IMG_1401.jpeg



This article talks about how generator/motor don’t necessarily mean it will be to inefficient.
Either way a big enough battery will make up for that.
 
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B1rdie

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I’m gonna have to leave this site, unfortunatelly its kind of becoming a male pole show… absolutely disgusting. These bikes look like they have been designed to split in half and empale a rider with that vertical seat tube. 😫
 

Ark

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IGH has been around for years, don't see the point in moving it from the rear hub to the motor..
just one more thing that can go wrong and mean shelling out ridiculous cash for outside of warranty... instead of just buying a new internal gear hub.
All these motor companies just seem desperate for something to be seen as unique.

Hopefully all these smaller companies die off and we are left with the big 4 and some form of standardisation for how they fit to a frame
 

Zimmerframe

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IGH has been around for years, don't see the point in moving it from the rear hub to the motor..
just one more thing that can go wrong and mean shelling out ridiculous cash for outside of warranty... instead of just buying a new internal gear hub.
All these motor companies just seem desperate for something to be seen as unique.

Hopefully all these smaller companies die off and we are left with the big 4 and some form of standardisation for how they fit to a frame
Hopefully, the motors in future will be easier to maintain, with a gearbox you can access for example ! (Well, maybe not if Shimano make one ....)

By your own logic, you shouldn't be looking at Trek, Spesh and Whyte bikes, but should just be looking for a hub motored bike rather than a mid motored bike ? It's far simpler, cheaper, easier to change.

By moving the IGH to the motor, you'll gain efficiency and weight advantages from lack of duplication, not to mention economies of scale. A Rohloff isn't cheap. You'll also be making a considerable reduction to unsprung mass which is hanging out the back and moving the weight to a central sprung location which will all benefit handling and responsiveness. There's also less cables/power supplies. Ease in changing wheels/being able to have spare wheels off the shelf.
 

Zimmerframe

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I’m gonna have to leave this site, unfortunatelly its kind of becoming a male pole show… absolutely disgusting. These bikes look like they have been designed to split in half and empale a rider with that vertical seat tube. 😫
Fear not .. Avial have you covered with a concept .. including leaf sprung rear suspension !

1681380416802.png


Or if it's mainly the seat tube worries, Tony Ellsworth has an option (out of stock though) ..

1681380580134.png


Though I'm not sure you'd like the single sided fork ..... chainstay .... seat stay.... IMPALE ME ! 1681380501046.png
 

yorkshire89

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IGH has been around for years, don't see the point in moving it from the rear hub to the motor..
just one more thing that can go wrong and mean shelling out ridiculous cash for outside of warranty... instead of just buying a new internal gear hub.
All these motor companies just seem desperate for something to be seen as unique.

Hopefully all these smaller companies die off and we are left with the big 4 and some form of standardisation for how they fit to a frame

As zim said really. Removing all the weight of mechs and cassettes from rear wheels to be replaced with a hub gearbox isn't really a step forward. Get all that weight low and central on the bike, they will handle so much better for it!
 

V86

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IGH has been around for years, don't see the point in moving it from the rear hub to the motor..
just one more thing that can go wrong and mean shelling out ridiculous cash for outside of warranty... instead of just buying a new internal gear hub.
All these motor companies just seem desperate for something to be seen as unique.

Hopefully all these smaller companies die off and we are left with the big 4 and some form of standardisation for how they fit to a frame

Unsprung weight and Suspension performance…..
a major disadvantage with IGH is the added unsprung weight it adds. That will affect the suspension performance on a FS bike. Kindernay VII is one of few who have closed the weight gap to derailleur systems, but it’s still a few hundred grams heavier.
But a mid mounted gearbox removes even more unsprung weight than a derailleur system.
A belt will also be lighter than a chain.

 

V86

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Because Emtbs or pedelecs as they should be known are human powered as well as assisted ,
Vehicles are not
Humans and the tiny motors that are in an push bike need the gearing to be efficient its as simple as that (y)
Look up Digital Drive….or Series Hybrid Pedelec” as it’s also called.
Something they have soften on regulations not to long ago
Having a hub motor adds to much weight on a FS bike (unless someone makes a super light, powerfull and quiet hub motor)
But Nothing is stopping anyone from slapping a Schaeffler chainless electric drive system generator and a motor together in a neat mid mounted solutions with a belt drive to the rear hub.
Some might consider it a e-moped at that point, but the trick would be to get it as close to (or even better) the feel of a regular emtb. For that it requires low latency, great sensors, excellent feedback, and some serious programming.


Yes you would be fecked if you run out of battery. But running out of battery on a regular emtb is no fun neither. Range, weight and Watt regulation might be an issue though. Lets just hope they improve the tech and regulations on it.
As long as the bike work, performs and feels like a regular emtb (or even better) would you care?

Can it be done manually with a planatery gear system of some sort though?
Or actually , that’s more or less what Revonte One is doing?
Revonte One is about the size and weight of a regular emtb motor. The complication is not that much more than a regular emtb motor ?
 
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Paulquattro

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Look up Digital Drive….
Neat idea but would depend a lot on the rear wheel motor weight and as you said i personally wouldn't want to have no option when left without a battery ,
battery anxiety is a big thing for a lot of people now can you imagine also the chance of having to walk and push your bike on top of that especially out in the middle of nowhere :)
 

V86

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Neat idea but would depend a lot on the rear wheel motor weight and as you said i personally wouldn't want to have no option when left without a battery ,
battery anxiety is a big thing for a lot of people now can you imagine also the chance of having to walk and push your bike on top of that especially out in the middle of nowhere :)

Unless they make a revolutionary superlight and powerfull hub motor for the digital drive, it just won’t make much sense on an eMTB.
For Cargo bikes and city bikes on the other hand it makes much more sense and is already in use today.
Podbike is a velomobile that is working on that principle. And there are multiple cargo bikes that run on similar technology. The schaeffler digital drive is one of them.

Having both the motor and generater in the same mid mounted enclosure on the other hand might work for a emtb? Range wise it would mive closer to a e-moped (depending on how much of the pedel energy can be recovered). One would need a bigger battery and more powerful motor. But then again: weight!
IMG_1401.jpeg


But again, I think Revonte One has the better solution anyway.
 

V86

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Pinion did have motor/gearbox prototype at one point. I wonder what happen to it? Seems like it`s up to Valeo/effigear, Intra-drive and Revonte now.
IMG_4297.jpeg

 

Islandtrader

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BRP (Bombarbier) is now majority owner of Pinion gearbox. From what I can tell they are pretty close to starting development of their gearbox Ebike. It may take a couple years before it comes to market, but I truly believe it will be something special when it does.

Here's the link to their jobs listing page for their new Ebike program. If you scroll a bit you can see a conceptual drawing for one of their bikes.

Low voltage products
 

B1rdie

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BRP (Bombarbier) is now majority owner of Pinion gearbox. From what I can tell they are pretty close to starting development of their gearbox Ebike. It may take a couple years before it comes to market, but I truly believe it will be something special when it does.

Here's the link to their jobs listing page for their new Ebike program. If you scroll a bit you can see a conceptual drawing for one of their bikes.

Low voltage products
Awesome news!
They are offering jobs in Canada, and the angles on that hardtail proto design look “normal”.
 

volts

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A "digital drive" sounds like an excellent way of making a less efficient but also much less convenient, and dare we hope also more expensive drivetrain?
Yaay, ding ding ding the holy trinity of drivetrains! :)
 

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