Bosch Error 510 - magnetic interference?

[Mteam]

HI All,

I have the bosch cx gen 4 motor, and noticed something wierd today which I thought might be useful to someone else in the future. I was in the garage moving stuff about and I leant a spirit level against the bike, leaning vertically touching the left side of the motor casing and the saddle. While the spirit level was leaning against the bike I happened to turn the motor on, and got an Error 510, and I could hear some small motor operating continuously (similar noise to what happens once when you turn the bike on , but this was continuous.). The manual says error 510 is an internal sensor error, reset the motor and try again. I turned the bike off, back on again,and also powered the battery off and back on again, and still got error 510. So then I moved the spirit level away from the bike, reset the battery, and all was fine , no Error 510. Put the spirit level back next to the bike and get error 510 again. This is reproduceable every time - the spirit level next to the motor casing triggers an error 510.

The spirit level is a magnetic spirit level, so I presume that the magnetic spirit level is interfering with some magnetic sensor in the motor. Just thought I'd put this out there for anyone else who gets weird error 510 in future, try moving the bike away from any sources of magnetism.

 

[RickBullotta]

Maybe this?

NASA researchers track slowly splitting 'dent' in Earth's magnetic field

A small but evolving dent in Earth's magnetic field can cause big headaches for satellites.

phys.org

 

[GrandesRoues]

Interesting find.
I have seen a new type of torque sensor using magnetism marketed as used in pedelecs.

Startpage

Bosh may be is using it ?

 

[KeithO]

Moral of this story.......keep magnets away from Ebikes ?

 

[Chris@EDC]

Had same event happen to me but during a ride, Focus Jam 2 6.8 2020 model and could not clear the error code tried resetting battery, computer everything and no result, after doing that i got an additional erroro 680 on the new Bosch motor, WTF??? Any further Help???
Took bike back to dealer waiting on reply ??

 

[Akiwi]

My wifed bike had that error number in the errors log (Got it from a bike shop after motor firmware upgrade). I looked it up and saw some accounts of people who get that error always at the same point on their ride to work. So obviously some sensitive magnetic sensor gets screwed up.

 

[Hamina]

My wifed bike had that error number in the errors log (Got it from a bike shop after motor firmware upgrade). I looked it up and saw some accounts of people who get that error always at the same point on their ride to work. So obviously some sensitive magnetic sensor gets screwed up.

Had same event happen to me but during a ride, Focus Jam 2 6.8 2020 model and could not clear the error code tried resetting battery, computer everything and no result, after doing that i got an additional erroro 680 on the new Bosch motor, WTF??? Any further Help???
Took bike back to dealer waiting on reply ??

Akiwi and Chris: How did your cases end? New motor?

 

[Akiwi]

Akiwi and Chris: How did your cases end? New motor?

It has never heppened again. So the motor is the same.
I have booked our bikes in for a service on 03 March, I'll show the mechanics the report and ask them about it. But it is not worrying me as it appears to have been a 1 time thing.

 

[Hamina]

It has never heppened again. So the motor is the same.
I have booked our bikes in for a service on 03 March, I'll show the mechanics the report and ask them about it. But it is not worrying me as it appears to have been a 1 time thing.

Thank you for your reply. Did your wife notice it during ride? Was it just one line in the error logs? I would be interested to hear if they find something during your next maintenance.

It seems that the 510 error can be just a temporary or permanent error when it occurs.
Its seems also the error could be something to deal with magnetic torque (and/or) cadence sensor failing due to some reason.

 

[Akiwi]

Thank you for your reply. Did your wife notice it during ride? Was it just one line in the error logs? I would be interested to hear if they find something during your next maintenance.

It seems that the 510 error can be just a temporary or permanent error when it occurs.
Its seems also the error could be something to deal with magnetic torque (and/or) cadence sensor failing due to some reason.

She never mentioned it to me. As far as I know it was only on the error logs.

 

[Gyre]

For what it's worth, this error popped on me in the middle of my ride this morning. I was in traffic over a bridge with the bike in "Turbo" mode when the power suddenly cut out with two errors - first one, and then it was replaced on the screen with a 510 error. I couldn't see the first error because I was startled and had to safely pull over to take a closer look. I could feel the motor buzzing under my pedals as if it was ready to go, but provided zero assist. Rebooting the bike seemed to fix the issue. I'm at work now, and as far as I can tell the error log isn't available in the app since I'm not connected to the Kiox.

It's possible I ran over an induction loop when it happened, but I have no idea if those loops emit any significant magnetic field, much less one strong enough to freak out the sensor.

To be sure, it was not fun having the power cut out on me suddenly when there could have been a car closely following.

Edit: I've crossed the same bridge a few more times since this occurred and didn't replicate the problem. I may have been taking a different line, or it may have had nothing to do with the bridge or traffic lights.

 

[R120]

Someone in another thread posted up how the fidlock bottle they where using on their Trek caused this issue, or at least that’s what their LBS pinned it on as the cause.

 

[Hamina]

I got the 510 error code and it was persistent straight from the first time. Purion showed the error code eventhough the motor was off the frame. For me the error was not location dependent.

Purion worked ok but there was no assistance.

Bosch replaced the motor with new one. This happened after 1800km. The reason has something to do with internal torque sensor.

 

[Iggy_BBR]

I had this error once (back in December), had the issue resolved by making a trip to the shop. The only thing I can think of at the time that caused it when it happened, was that I rode across some steel plates from an ongoing street repair on a steepish hill while in Turbo.

I recently came across article, with a possible solution.
Error code 510 - Bosch Performance Line CX

A search on the web resolved it as an 'internal sensor error' which didn't sound too good to me. I called my very helpful LBS who advised that they had only seen this once and it turned out to be a magnetised gear shift cable that had been reinstalled right alongside the motor. They advised me to remove the motor again and check the routing of the cables.

So, the next day I began stripping again. However, I had the good sense to switch the motor on after removing each part beginning with the cranks then the chainring. Imagine my surprise when the removal of the chainring removed the error! I placed a pocket navigation compass next to the chainring and the needle swung wildly showing it to be magnetised.

As the chain ring comprised of three components, I decided strip it down and reinstall each one back on the bike, one at time, and checking for the error between each one.

Would you believe it? After reinstalling the final component of the chainring there was no error.

I reassembled the bike and took it for a 12 mile test ride. No error!

The only explanation I can offer is that two or three of the components of the chainring were magnetised in the same direction and that when I reassembled them, I didn't align them in their original positions meaning that their magnetic poles were opposing and thereby cancelling each other out

Is it possible that between the shifter and dropper cables, would become magnetized and cause this error?

 

[Iggy_BBR]

Based on what I read, I decide to put my bike on the stand do some scientific testing with a non-scientific tool (my iPhone). I downloaded a free EMF Detector, and determined that top left side of the phone is capturing the reading. These are the results I got from varies spot along on the left side of the bike (inside and out), starting from the headset area to the rear magnet. In my test, I did detect two high levels of EMFs, the first one was from the frame mounted Crank Bros pump w/ a magnetic attached hose and the second was the rear magnet (no surprise there).

Outside of the Frame:

Inside of the Frame, I forgot to measure with the pump attached.

After all of this I removed my frame mounted pump and also place the Dropper cable to one side of the guides and the Kiox to the opposite side. If you're wonder about the shifter cable, there isn't one, since I have been running a wireless shifter from Archer Components.

Thinking back a bit, I don't think I had any issues after installing the pump, it was on the bike for almost 5-6 months before I had the 510 error. But as a precaution for the future I did remove it and I'll just place in my hip pack.

 

[Hamina]

I also made tests before took the bike to Trek dealer:

1. Removed battery and put back (several times) = Error 510
2. Reset the battery by pressing on/off-button several seconds = Error 510 (I hadn't heard about this before)
3. Removed cranks = Error 510
4. Removed chain and chainring = Error 510
5. Took the electric connectors off the motor -> put back on = Error 510
6. Removed the motor out of the frame as far as electric wires made possible = Error 510

When I had to cycle back home with Error 510 and therefore no assistance I noticed that if you ride like 15mins the Purion OFF and then put it ON -> you got like 1-3seconds assistance and after that Error 510. You could hear the sound from the motor. I had nice 10km to test this as I had to ride back home without assistance. The last 10km was a route that I occasionally ride so the error was not, like some others have had, location related.

The total ride was 63km and the error came up at 50km. The bike was leaning to traffic signpost and was ON during the whole stop that lasted like 5min. I was riding 98% of the trip in ECO mode.

 

[Rob Gaff]

This has just happened to me whilst out on a ride. Taken battery out/reset and still the same, error 510. 2nd problem in 6 months with this, I'm bloody fuming. After 8 weeks of ownership in December it had a new battery installed from Bosch under warranty. Makes me think these bikes just aren't fit for purpose and the tech is just not good enough

 

[Iggy_BBR]

I only been on the Gen 4 motor for about a year and only had this issue once, and only ridden 2-3 since (the 510 error), because of the bad weather. I was previously on the Gen2 motor without issues for about 18 months. If it is related to EMI, maybe its related to where the magnets and rotors as mounted. On the gen2 bike I had, the sensor was mounted in the middle of the swing arm and the magnet was mounted to a spoke. While on my current gen4 bike, the sensor is mounted closer to the axle, magnet is mounted to the hub (on top of the rotor) and the axle also has a magnetically attached tool. I wonder if its possible the that spinning steel rotor and metal pads are creating a magnetic field that could interfere with the sensor.

 

[Hamina]

That's interesting theory but I think they are so far away that it would have to be very strong field? I'm not specialist on this matter, just thinking aloud. Such a magnetic field could cause errors to also to rear wheel speed sensor and then we would have ERROR 503.

I just bought new chainring. I'll measure the possible magnetic field difference with my iphone.

 

[Hamina]

Aluminium chainring would exclude the chainring as magnetizer.

 

[Iggy_BBR]

Another random thing I noticed on the Trek 2020 Rail 9.7, the sensor and magnet are offset from each other at an angle. Though they're at 4mm gap, which is within 2-8mm clearance as recommended (which I found) in an older Bosch installation manual.

 

[Gyre]

For what it's worth, I had the same error happen at roughly the same location on the same bridge this weekend that I reported back in February. Never had the error anywhere else and crossed that bridge many times without error. There must be a strong EMF source somewhere on the bridge prior to the stoplight induction loops ... or maybe the error started when I ran over the loops from the prior stoplight and it took a few seconds before the system threw the error code.

 

[Philip_Filip]

Hello guys,

just got an error 510 today. At first I thought that this was connected with my Vollspeed tuning kit, but after doing some google research it seems there is no connecting to tuning devices. The error occurred when I was waiting at the traffic lights next to the tram. My theory is that tram somehow interfered with internal sensor and caused an error.

After resetting the e-bike the error was gone and everything was ok. It really bugs me how many sensors these e-bikes have.

 

[Gyre]

If anybody has the time and hacking inclination, it might be fun to experiment with a partial Faraday cage around the sensor with an opening for the wheel magnet.

 

[Hamina]

The newest firmware update from 2021 March should fix this issue regarding Bosch.

 

[Hamina]

The newest firmware update from 2021 March should fix this issue regarding Bosch.

This is a working solution I can now tell. Fixed my motor immediately.

Motor gave couple of times temporary error and then the same happened as last time: permanent error couple of days ago. I looked the motor and chain ring with Iphone emf-meter and all numbers were between 80-100. There was nothing exceptional

What is still strange that what caused it in my bike also after first replaced motor?

 

[Hamina]

Observations after the first 28km test ride:
- For the first 1-3km it felt like the motor had lost all the adaptation maps -> assistant was inconsistent on all modes
- Walk-button didn't work -> It kind of started to assist but went off after 1-2meters.

After approx. 5km everything seem to get back normal. A bit strange but hopefully it now works fully.

 

[mmoscati]

Just bought Haibike with bosh engine and produces the 510 error from the first use, it only takes a few hundred meters to reproduce the error. I bought it on the internet and now a big problem with the assistance. Hope it's just a firmware issue. Bicycles are probably not tested. Tips?

 

[Hamina]

Tips?

There is no other way than update your firmware.

 

[mmoscati]

The firmware has been updated to the latest drive unit version 1.3.3.0 through an authorized local dealer. Unfortunately the 510 error still occur, the engine was sent to bosch for checks, now I just have to wait.