Kenevo Gen1 2020 Kenevo Error - Blue Light only and turns off

[henrydp]

I have a 2020 Kenevo and have experienced this 3 times over a 6 month period. Every time this has occurred the bike is dry and parked in the garage. Turn on the bike and get the bottom 2 blue lights only and turns off (looks like a light blue and dark blue light). The light is accompanied with a beep. Every time this has occurred it has fixed it self some hours later or the next day. You can turn it on and off repeatedly and it still fails to start but come back hours later or take it to my LBS next day and it turns on normally. All contacts are clean and dry and each time the LBS cannot find any fault.
Any ideas?
I am suspecting a TCU problem rather than the obvious contact/cable issues otherwise it would throw up the usually red/blue error lights or is that not the case?

 

[Mikerb]

Probably only one light......the light from which is bleeding through to the second. The bike is failing to complete the start up process and the fact that it fixes itself does suggest a poor connection somewhere or water ingress. Solid state electronics ( ie the TCU) are usually very reliable but if a component fails it does not self rectify. So I would suspect damp ingress ( you do have very high humidity) and the TCU seems the most likely candidate. When it refuses to start up, try removing the TCU and first check that the USB rubber bung is fully closed and the tails conections are good. Put the TCU in the sun/warm place with the USB port open for a few hours. If that results in the bike then starting correctly I suggest you remove the TCU again and this time tape it up and also tape the tail connections.

 

[henrydp]

Probably only one light......the light from which is bleeding through to the second. The bike is failing to complete the start up process and the fact that it fixes itself does suggest a poor connection somewhere or water ingress. Solid state electronics ( ie the TCU) are usually very reliable but if a component fails it does not self rectify. So I would suspect damp ingress ( you do have very high humidity) and the TCU seems the most likely candidate. When it refuses to start up, try removing the TCU and first check that the USB rubber bung is fully closed and the tails conections are good. Put the TCU in the sun/warm place with the USB port open for a few hours. If that results in the bike then starting correctly I suggest you remove the TCU again and this time tape it up and also tape the tail connections.

Thanks for your thoughts Mikerb. I'm not entirely sure they are the problems though.
I think it is 2 lights, not bleed as every other time lights are on, eg. battery level, there is no 'bleed'. These LED's are capable of displaying multiple colours thru a single LED. I agree somewhat that it is failing to complete the start up process but not in the usual way. The TCU is designed to check all the peripherals eg. motor, battery, sensors etc and will throw up codes if any of these are not within spec, however, it is not getting past its own internal check. Its a bit like a corrupt motherboard bios where the purpose of the bios can't be executed because it won't start itself.
As for damp, that's another obvious possibility but again one I don't believe is at play here. Yes I live in a high humidity area and one that has one of the highest rainfall totals in Australia but at the moment we are in winter and the humidity is very low. Also, humidity generally only comes into play when you have get below dew point temperature and get condensation. I keep my bike in the house so it will never see dew point. Those that keep their bike in the garden shed or outside undercover are far more likely to see condensation. Also, I never ride in the rain. It destroys our tracks (we have heavy clay content) so as a general rule, tracks are closed when it rains.
My bike washing regime is to wet the bike lightly (I use a hose with multi-function head set on gentle shower spray - NEVER use pressure wash) and spray on soap (Muc-Off) and brush it around to loosen any dirt and rinse with same shower spray. I then bounce the bike a few times to shake off excess water and park it in the sun for a couple of hours to dry. After yesterday's ride and wash I removed the TCU while the bike was still wet and it was bone dry as it should be. I checked under the USB cover and it was also bone dry. Checked all connections, same story, bone dry. There were a couple of drops of water inside the top tube near the entry ports for brake cables and that's it. The last time it failed I also removed the TCU and checked all the connections and it still wouldn't start.
It has been into my LBS last week and they still cannot diagnose the problem. They said they reset the TCU, what ever that does, and suggested the back up battery may need replacing but didn't say they did it (and I forgot to ask) and also updated the motor firmware to 7.4.2. All other firmware was up to date. They basically gave the bike back and said it's working but we can't find any definitive problems because we can't make the bike fault while we have it in the shop, which is what has happened the last 2 times also. Very frustrating trying to diagnose an intermittent fault. I was hoping that the global specialized brains trust may have had an answer but not so apparently.
I guess I will keep riding and monitor it but if other owners have had the same issue, please post it so we can go to spesh and get them to look into it more.

 

[Mikerb]

OK.....then the other possibility is the battery to motor main cable especially if it is not the Version 3. The V2 cable is known to give problems because the cable itself is too stiff and puts strain on the motor end cap connection. In more extreme cases that D shaped cap splits and of course water ingress is then inevitable. In less severe cases the seal between the outersheath of the cable and the cap is compromised and that also allows water ingress. There have also been cases where one of the wires inside the outer sheath actually breaks either just before it enters the cap or at the solder point inside the cap..........the insultation often preventing it being a permanent disconnection.

It is relatively easy to check. The non drive side crank and motor cover needs to be removed to gain access to it. The damage to the cable/cap can produce a range of faults ranging from short circuits to intermittent disconnections. The V3 cable is identfiable as having a small white zip tie at each end of it and the sheath section is quite flexible.
The v3 cable was not avaialble until early 2020 but bikes assembled before that will have the problematic V2

 

[henrydp]

I checked with my LBS today and they checked the battery to motor cable and it was fine. They also confirmed it is a V3 cable so I'm still a bit stumped as to the issue. They did suggest that if it happens again, plug in the charger for a few minutes and then try turning it on. I'll give that a go if/when it happens again.

 

[Mikerb]

See the workshop manual diagram of the Communications Area Network ( for he Levo but it will be the same for Kenevo). You only mentioned on your reply that the malfunction occurs after washing your bike which does point to water ingress being your problem; I would still mostly suspect the TCU, and merely removing the USB plug and seeing no water is no guide. The TCU has no seal between its base and the toptube and the TCU unit itslef comprises 2 halves with a seam all around it. Any water directed at an angle other than from direct above is likely to penetrate that seam. As you can see from the CAN diagram you close a switch in the TCU when you press it to initiate the start up. The fact that a light ..maybe 2 ...does get lit suggest the TCU initially gets the 12v feed from the motor. That 12v feed is obviously still there since the one or two blue lights remain lit, but the TCU fails to complete its sequence.
Given the investigations the LBS and yourself have done I suspect water ingress in the TCU is shorting that 12v feed to earth. It cures itself because it dries out in time.
As before I suggest you thoroughly dry the TCU and then seal it before resetting it in the bike.
Others have found that it can take up to 2 days in a warm airing cupboard with the USB port open to be sure it has completely dried out.
It could also of course be the case that repeated water ingress has damaged the TCU and a replacement will be needed to fix the problem.

I have completel wrapped my TCU in tape making extra sure the cable entry point is properly sealed; I also wrapped the plug connectors on the leads into the TCU with amalgamating tape; and made a neoprene seal to sit between the TCU and the frame. My Levo is 2.5 years old.....zero electrical problems despite riding through very wet UK winters.

 

[henrydp]

I agree the issue is in the TCU and that it is getting power feed initially and then fails to complete its sequence. The LBS opened the TCU and changed the battery. They didn't say that they saw any sign of corrosion or water ingress. They also plugged in a new TCU and tried mine on another bike all the time looking for fault codes but nothing. I have owned a 2017 Levo for 2 years, a 2019 Kenevo for a year and now the 2020 and never had this problem before. Same style TCU. My cleaning/washing/riding regime has never changed. I understand the theory of water getting into the TCU via the usb cover and the split clamshell body but it shouldn't. The bike has been designed with an IP rating. You should be able to ride your bike in the pouring rain without issue. That's not to say that some may fail, and mine may well be one of them, but the randomness of it makes me think otherwise. I have had it occur a week after washing the bike so I am confident it is not wet. Has it been wet at one point and caused a permanent but intermittent electronic error, possibly.
One thing I didn't mention as I didn't believe it to be relevant and now the conspiracy theorist in me had a thought. It may well be Specialized has programmed the TCU (with the latest updates) to detect changes and fail to start albeit randomly. The 3 times it has occurred the bike has been de-restricted, albeit with different methods. It originally had the magnet relocation to the crank. I know that the software release about a year ago detected this via algorithms comparing wheel speed, torque, cadence, distance and battery cycles and it would randomly switch the bike off while riding. Sometimes it would take 20-30 mins to start and then, once you've restarted the bike, it would occur more often, say every 5-10 mins. Around xmas last year they did another update that all but killed the ability to use magnet relocation for de-restriction. I then ran my bike restricted (factory default) for about 5 months with no issue and then installed a Levociraptor which worked fine. The bike did not turn itself off during a ride. I had it set to 40kmh, not unlimited so as to not seem obvious to the software if it was looking. This is around when the blue light start failure re-occurred.
I'm not sure whether this is the problem or not as Specialized wouldn't admit it if it was a programmed detection system. Why so random though, other than pure annoyance! I can ride for weeks and no issue and it never fails on a ride, only at the start of a ride. I did remove the Levociraptor last time it occurred and it still wouldn't restart until some hours later. It's currently running back to factory and I'll leave it like that to see if it still occurs. I have an 8 hour race this weekend so it better stay working!

 

[Mikerb]

Heck mate.........every time you update you complicate the ability to diagnose the problem!! If you have been using deristrictors then it could well be messing with the TCU. Pressure has been applied to brands to ensure their products conform to the Pedelec regulations and that includes taking measures to prevent their software control from being hacked so it would not suprise me in the least to find out the successive firmware releases include anti hacking detection and disabling. Their failure to do so would be viewed as being complicit in the easy a bility of owners to make their bike illegal and as such could be subject to huge fines based on their turnover.
Deristriction product suppliers of course do their best to by pass any such measures but they can only design their products on the firmware that exists at the time.

Regardless, if you are deristricting your bike, the problems you experience could well be of your own making.

 

[henrydp]

100% agree Mike. I just wish Specialized would be more transparent about it. If they said it is caused by me running Levociraptor (or what ever) then I would completely accept it and move on. But when they constantly say we've checked the bike and there is nothing wrong with it, when I'm clearly experiencing the opposite, then that doesn't sit too well with me. They either genuinely don't know what's wrong or do but won't say it. Either way it erodes the experience just a little bit each time which is sad because I genuinely love the product. In my opinion, they still do eMTB better than anyone else.

 

[Mikerb]

Except you are not dealing with Specialized...you are dealing with a LBS. Specialized are only obliged to deliver firmware that delivers what Specialized themselves promote in terms of motor control. Realistically you should have no expectation that you are able to fit 3rd party products to overrule that firmware especially since they do not provide an API for any such 3rd party connection. The firmware, given the software costs to develop it, is probably one of Specialized's key assets, and is also closely associated with ensuring reliable performance of the motor. Of course they are going to protect it.
I think you have said that each time the LBS has had a look at it everything is working as normal, and if there is no existing fault to chase it is practically impossible to diagnose. The TCU does not report a standard red and blue fault so whatever causes it to fail to complete initiation is not a recognised fault.............not would it be if it is caused by non authorised 3rd party equipment on the bike.

In your position I would get the LBS to reflash both motor and battery firmware in case any of that has become corrupted, and if that does not work, get the TCU changed......................also of course do not connect any 3rd party derestriction devices.

 

[henrydp]

Again Mike I agree with you. I don't expect to be able to install 3rd party products, I would just like to. Also, I definitely don't expect to modify their firmware in terms of making it more powerful or shifting the torque curve or any of those sort of things that you would do on a car or what some 3rd party developers are talking about in eMTB. I recognise that they have invested a significant amount of time and money in R&D developing what I think is the best motor and firmware on the market. That's why I'm on my 3rd Specialized eMTB.
What I would like to do is raise the 25kmh limit enforced by pedelec laws that were in place before eMTB was even a thing. I don't want to make the bike go 60kph or anything stupid. I would be more than happy with 30kph or 40kph so I could ride at the same pace as non ebikes. I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about restrictions because god knows it's been done to death, but my observation is that restrictions seem to have far greater support in the UK/EU than the rest of the world. Maybe Australia just has a natural aversion to being told what to do by EU. I would be happy if we adopted the US speed limit. I'm sure Specialized make a version of the firmware that has a 20mph limit for the US. If I could install that version (which is effectively what I was trying to do with Levociraptor) then I would have a higher cut out and all the factory firmware. It's really only some bureaucrats that say we cant. Specialized has done it and it works perfectly fine. Ask Marshall Mullen! Thanks for your help with diagnosis. I will certainly post any further issues should they continue to occur without the 3rd party bits.