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Specialized Levo SL is a 16.9KG Super Light emtb

Weighing in at 16.9 KG, this all new 2020 electric mountain bike from Specialized is the worlds lightest EMTB. With an all new motor doubling your pedal power up to 240 watts, an internal battery with 320Wh and an optional range extender, this ebike is carving out its own class of super light weight bikes.

Based on the Levo geometry and 150 travel at the front and rear but rides more like a Stumpjumper than an ebike.

Check the video above to watch my first ride review.

UK Pricing:

S-Works Levo SL – £10,999 Levo SL Expert – £7,499 Levo SL Comp Carbon – £5,999 Levo SL Comp – £4,999

  1. Nice review Rob. Stunning quality on the video too.

    Oh, the compromises but then anything pushing limits will play with those. The chain stay and the lower weight front sounds great. The reach, well I kinda like a long-ish reach but this isn’t that bike (needs an Evo version 🙈).

  2. Can’t watch the video yet, anyone seen the weight differance between carbon and alu? The £5k Alu option is actually quite tempting, Now I’m town, Comp or SL….

    Other concern is no removable battery. I dont really want to leave the battery out in the cold over night so a little concern that. Certainly interesting.

  3. When are these going to be on sale? Maybe covered in the video, but had to watch it in silence at my desk at work 😂
  4. Getting an understand as to why they dropped carbon comp on the regular Levo, was the same price as carbon comp SL.
  5. Must… hide… card.
    I keep telling myself to wait for the Kenevo version but I could have this now.
    Sooo pretty
  6. WOW…looks like they are trying to recoup the development costs pretty quickly. FFS $26500 for an ebike with a little motor and Fox 34 forks
  7. I have ordered and paid for the new limited edition Turbo Levo SL S-Works, as they are only making 250 of them. At $26500 Au, I consider it an investment and it will be locked in the vault at the bank, and viewed once a month on a Saturday, by appointment.
  8. wife away to spend 15k on a kitchen, that’s after us chopping 5k off.

    makes the bike a bargain. that’s what I’m away to tell her

  9. Nice review Rob. Stunning quality on the video too.

    Agreed, @Rob Hancill and @TheBikePilot you smashed the visuals out the park on this one.

    £11 grand for a fucking bicycle is reasonable???

    They start at 5k which I think is reasonable, 11k erm not so much o_O

    If the battery was removable, I’d be signing up to one of these on the Cycle-scheme today….

    You best sign up then as the battery is removable

  10. "You best sign up then as the battery is removable"

    I read somewhere else it’s remove 8 bolts and the motor… Not gonna do that every evening to charge up inside the house…

  11. "You best sign up then as the battery is removable"

    I read somewhere else it’s remove 8 bolts and the motor… By removeable, I mean I want to be able to charge it in a cafe while I have my lunch..

  12. 2 bolts to drop the motor. takes about 20 mins.

    Can then fly with your bike and take 2 x 160Wh range extenders in hand luggage.

  13. Nice design but I’m never that taken with most of the Specialized colour schemes, like the S-works one though :eek:

    Not that groundbreaking really when you consider the cheaper entry level one is still only about 2kg lighter than the Focus Jam2 which has been around for a few years…

  14. The killer feature for me would be if this is light enough for me to get up on the roof rack! I could then justify not having an eeb *and* an analogue bike… Just have one of these that I can easily take everywhere.

    ROB could we get a video of you dead lifting the bike please? 10 reps, over the head…

  15. lot of appeal in this bike for me but some of the climbing around here that my levo can do might be too much for it.. the IP rating is a big advantage, love the fact that the power is through the cadence range and the range extender is available straight away from spesh ! nice
  16. I’m torn!!

    I’ve been riding Stumpjumper’s for the last 10+ years, and still have an Expert.

    I have some trails that I cycle round, that I just don’t have the legs for… and thought an EMTB would be the answer. I spent months of researching, and eventually opted for a Trek Rail 9.9. The Levo was a close second, but the component spec of the Rail 9.9 v’s the Levo S-Works sold me. I also got a decent discount which I couldn’t get on the Levo.

    I’ve now had the bike for 2 weeks – and have been having a ball on it. I already feel like I’ve gone against all of my own wishes, because I’ve been riding mainly in EMTB mode. My intention was to ride in ECO all of the time, and still get the exercise I want – but get a little bit of a boost when needed. The truth is, riding the Rail in ECO is a chore… and feels tougher than riding my Stumpy! EMTB means I can climb things I’d never have attempted before… and I get a work out in different ways.

    What I originally wanted was something that I could ride as normal, but then get a wee boost on the technical uphills when my legs run out.
    I think if the Levo SL had been available 4 weeks ago, then it would probably be the one I’d have bought. I’m a great one for buying something, and then wishing I’d bought something else – which is why I spent months pondering over what to buy!!

    I’m only half way into my "30 day satisfaction" period with the Rail, and can swap it for something else. Now I’ve tasted EMTB power, I’m afraid that the SL wouldn’t offer enough – despite it being what I originally wanted.

    Part of me feels that I’m happy with what I have, and to stick with it. The other part thinks the Levo SL is what I originally wanted – and that I have this 2 week "exchange" window that I could make use of.

    Any advice?!

  17. Just been through the specs, and the base £5k model is exactly the same spec as the £6k version.

    You are paying £1k for a Carbon Frame only. Sorry but that’s just insane £500 understandable, but I dont really see the point in the £6k model currently.

  18. I decided to keep the 2020 Levo Comp I got just last week despite it still being in the return window. I’m 190cm tall and 100kg (large build) naked weight. There is a lot of wind resistance and weight for my bike to carry, I think the Levo with bigger motor and 700 Watt hour battery is more suited. I can also drop my weight down to 96kg to make up the difference :ROFLMAO:

    I appreciate the changes around making the motor more water resistant and also the charge connector is designed in a much more water proofed way. I guess this explains why they didn’t address the 2019 levo flaws on the 2020 levo, busy making the SL?

    There are so many reviews already out for this bike, I can definitely see the Specialized marketing machine at work right now.

  19. I have ordered and paid for the new limited edition Turbo Levo SL S-Works, as they are only making 250 of them. At $26500 Au, I consider it an investment and it will be locked in the vault at the bank, and viewed once a month on a Saturday, by appointment.

    In 10 years would be worth around $1.000, if not used of course.:)
    Specialized thinks, that with this special editions would be like buying limited edition Hyper/Sports Car that go up in value over the years, not down.. :ROFLMAO:

  20. I decided to keep the 2020 Levo Comp I got just last week despite it still being in the return window. I’m 190cm tall and 100kg (large build) naked weight. There is a lot of wind resistance and weight for my bike to carry, I think the Levo with bigger motor and 700 Watt hour battery is more suited. I can also drop my weight down to 96kg to make up the difference :ROFLMAO:

    "Drop" ;) I get ya.

  21. I’m torn!!

    I’ve been riding Stumpjumper’s for the last 10+ years, and still have an Expert.

    I have some trails that I cycle round, that I just don’t have the legs for… and thought an EMTB would be the answer. I spent months of researching, and eventually opted for a Trek Rail 9.9. The Levo was a close second, but the component spec of the Rail 9.9 v’s the Levo S-Works sold me. I also got a decent discount which I couldn’t get on the Levo.

    I’ve now had the bike for 2 weeks – and have been having a ball on it. I already feel like I’ve gone against all of my own wishes, because I’ve been riding mainly in EMTB mode. My intention was to ride in ECO all of the time, and still get the exercise I want – but get a little bit of a boost when needed. The truth is, riding the Rail in ECO is a chore… and feels tougher than riding my Stumpy! EMTB means I can climb things I’d never have attempted before… and I get a work out in different ways.

    What I originally wanted was something that I could ride as normal, but then get a wee boost on the technical uphills when my legs run out.
    I think if the Levo SL had been available 4 weeks ago, then it would probably be the one I’d have bought. I’m a great one for buying something, and then wishing I’d bought something else – which is why I spent months pondering over what to buy!!

    I’m only half way into my "30 day satisfaction" period with the Rail, and can swap it for something else. Now I’ve tasted EMTB power, I’m afraid that the SL wouldn’t offer enough – despite it being what I originally wanted.

    Part of me feels that I’m happy with what I have, and to stick with it. The other part thinks the Levo SL is what I originally wanted – and that I have this 2 week "exchange" window that I could make use of.

    Any advice?!

    This where I am enjoy the non ebike, but just can’t keep up with buddies on the climbs, I just want the assist for the climb to top of trail. Don’t want a full on ebike.

    Will see if EBC will have a demo in sometime soon.

  22. I can’t imagine paying $16525 for the top level bike here in the USA. The low weight is only because it has low power. Basically makes it a super expensive Stumpjumper with a little boost for climbing. I have a 19 Stumpjumper carbon and a 2020 Reign E. The Reign is much more fun to jump and trail ride because of its weight and stability. I was looking at a 2020 Honda CRF450 works edition the other day and thinking how expensive it was at $11998. Now I think it’s a steal in comparison to a plastic bike with a tiny electric motor and a small battery!
  23. nice bike and some very good engineering ideas, IP rated motor, waterproof plugs constant battery connection. All sounds like the problems we have been having have been addressed.
    Well it doesn’t make me very happy, while the spesh engineers have been beavering away on the sl it looks like all the levo and kenevo owners have been a bit "overlooked" what about fixing our crappy power cables, what about fixing our TCU’s that fill up with water if you sneeze on them, what about some quality control on the motors that have to get replaced, some guys have had up to five motor replacements in a bike thats not even a year old WTF!!
    between my wife and I we have spent around £30k on spesh ebikes, how about a bit of reengineering to fix our problems!!
  24. nice bike and some very good engineering ideas, IP rated motor, waterproof plugs constant battery connection. All sounds like the problems we have been having have been addressed.
    Well it doesn’t make me very happy, while the spesh engineers have been beavering away on the sl it looks like all the levo and kenevo owners have been a bit "overlooked" what about fixing our crappy power cables, what about fixing our TCU’s that fill up with water if you sneeze on them, what about some quality control on the motors that have to get replaced, some guys have had up to five motor replacements in a bike thats not even a year old WTF!!
    between my wife and I we have spent around £30k on spesh ebikes, how about a bit of reengineering to fix our problems!!

    Because they’ve already got your money…

  25. Will be my next bike if the 1st year’s reliability turns out ok. 240w is pretty much perfect for me, as is the expected range.

    Better start saving now…..

  26. I wasn’t aware if this rule. 300Wh max or 2x160Wh.
    Lithium batteries with more than 100 watt hours

    That makes me think, should they have made the battery pack 300Wh rather than 320? Using a 3400mAh battery we get 318,2Wh. Using a 3200mAh cell we get 299,5Wh. And the actual difference in capacity may be less than it sounds. A 3200mAh can be made with lower internal resistance, so you will have less energy wasted as heat. This can make a difference when riding at high assistance in low-ish outside temperatures, and when the battery is runing low. So, at most a minor sacrifice of range to have an airplane legal emtb!?

    Did they address this at the event @Rob Hancill?

    I think it’s country dependent. So Europe the Max is 160wh (ive not checked)

  27. I think it’s country dependent. So Europe the Max is 160wh (ive not checked)

    It seems you’re right. I assumed the European flight safety rules reflected the US rules. But in EU there is no 300Wh rule, only 160Wh x2. Still, they were pretty close to making an emtb that could be brought on planes in the US.

  28. Looks good, will have a better look on Sat at the open day

    Still no frame, motor and battery only option though

    Hopefully Spesh will sort this out soon with the Levo and the Levo SL

    Germany were pretty much the only ones to get limited number of frame motor and battery only Levo’s in 2020 and they were all s-work versions

    I like to build a bike to my spec preference not a manufactures price point

    Im sure Spesh would shift many more Levo SL’s if they offered them as frame, motor and battery only

  29. Just been out for a ride on one…. First impression are :Need to size up, I am 5’8" and needed to ride a large to feel comfortable, the bike is light, the bike is nimble, the bike is underspecced whatever model you decide on, the bike is perfect for the die hard Mtber wanting to move into Emtb.
    For me to sum up the power, it is more semi-skimmed than full fat and I wont comment on the price
  30. Seems pretty simple. If you’re mostly an eco guy the SL makes total sense. If you want to blast trails as fast as possible keep your normal levo. Living in Colorado with crazy climbs I want all the torque and battery as possible.

    I think the SL will be able to convert the die hards that have been on the fence.

    Hope to see at least an option of a lighter battery with add on offered on the normal Levo. For park days it would be nice to drop 4-5lbs.

  31. I’m torn!!

    I’ve been riding Stumpjumper’s for the last 10+ years, and still have an Expert.

    I have some trails that I cycle round, that I just don’t have the legs for… and thought an EMTB would be the answer. I spent months of researching, and eventually opted for a Trek Rail 9.9. The Levo was a close second, but the component spec of the Rail 9.9 v’s the Levo S-Works sold me. I also got a decent discount which I couldn’t get on the Levo.

    I’ve now had the bike for 2 weeks – and have been having a ball on it. I already feel like I’ve gone against all of my own wishes, because I’ve been riding mainly in EMTB mode. My intention was to ride in ECO all of the time, and still get the exercise I want – but get a little bit of a boost when needed. The truth is, riding the Rail in ECO is a chore… and feels tougher than riding my Stumpy! EMTB means I can climb things I’d never have attempted before… and I get a work out in different ways.

    What I originally wanted was something that I could ride as normal, but then get a wee boost on the technical uphills when my legs run out.
    I think if the Levo SL had been available 4 weeks ago, then it would probably be the one I’d have bought. I’m a great one for buying something, and then wishing I’d bought something else – which is why I spent months pondering over what to buy!!

    I’m only half way into my "30 day satisfaction" period with the Rail, and can swap it for something else. Now I’ve tasted EMTB power, I’m afraid that the SL wouldn’t offer enough – despite it being what I originally wanted.

    Part of me feels that I’m happy with what I have, and to stick with it. The other part thinks the Levo SL is what I originally wanted – and that I have this 2 week "exchange" window that I could make use of.

    Any advice?!

    I would keep what you have if you enjoy the fast speeds. Once my wife and I tasted the Turbo 2 years ago we haven’t looked back and just laugh about the thought of using lower support levels unless you need to extend the range. The extra weight isn’t all bad. It makes the bike feel more stable in the high speed/nasty sections.

    What you originally want before you demo and what you end up wanting are often two different things. I came in thinking I just wanted an extra boost but love the adrenaline I get from the higher speeds.

  32. Two things;
    1. Stop being so lazy. 😀
    2. Ride a short distance with the assist off, then switch over to Eco, makes the assist seem more assisty.

    That’s exactly what I did on Saturday… but after a few mins of slogging up the steep fire road at 5mph, I switched back to EMTB, and continued at about 12mph!
    With the bike set to off, it feels like you’re cycling through thick mud.

    The more I think about it, I think I’ll stick with my full fat Rail as I can drain the battery on that in about 2 hours in EMTB mode and still feel like I’ve had a solid work out – whilst actually enjoying the 1500m of climbing.

  33. Can then fly with your bike and take 2 x 160Wh range extenders in hand luggage.

    Interesting. So you’d run it with no battery in the frame, just one range extender on the frame and one in the pack.

    For me it’s a shame they didn’t go more the Evo/Kenevo way with the geometry, specifically reach, lets get the XL up around 500/510, the seat angle steeper and a degree off the head angle. Oh and whilst you’re at it change the suspension curve so i don’t need a 700lb spring at 100kg. The levo just about works for me at 6ft 3 because of the longer chainstays but i suspect with shorter stays it will start to feel too short at speed in rougher terrain. Is it too much to ask for a Levo Evo SL:)

  34. Is it too much to ask for a Levo Evo SL:)

    My guess: they worked on the motor, battery, electrics and frame integration over the geometry to get out a lightweight EMTB to market. Based on the Levo geo as tried and tested (safe).

    Now they’ve nailed the electrics I hope we see more modern geo / bikes for taller riders.

    Interesting. So you’d run it with no battery in the frame, just one range extender on the frame and one in the pack.

    No battery on frame at all, 2 range extenders in backpack / hand luggage.

  35. Publication biased!? Or did I missed some thing?

    So what is so groundbreaking compared with Lapierre fazuabased ezesty? €7000 17.5kg 60Nm 250wh battery 1.4kg battery weight proper enduro geo, possible to ride i bare (analog) at 16kg. Specialized 16.9kg 30Nm 320wh battery xc allmountain geo at twice The price €140k.
    BULLS did a am fazua speced bike under 16kg.
    What is THE big deal? Smells like fanboys all The way to me😉

  36. Hey the first of the Ebike world to catch up with all the aftermarket motors, first of the 48volt units. 2 years down the line and they might just think about 52volts where all the E tools are already and all the after market motors are heading.
  37. Thanks, Rob! Excellent first review, and your enthusiasm is infectious.

    Re geometry – Long, low, slack is not the end all. There are technical trails where short chainstays, a short front-center, and a high bottom bracket are advantageous. The SL sounds like a step in the playful direction.

    Question: how much louder is the SL motor compared to the Brose? (a quiet Brose)

    Cheers! :p

  38. Hey the first of the Ebike world to catch up with all the aftermarket motors, first of the 48volt units. 2 years down the line and they might just think about 52volts where all the E tools are already and all the after market motors are heading.

    Rocky Mountain Powerplay is 48V and has been since release in 2017.

  39. I would also like to hear @Rob Hancill comments on motor noise vs the turbo levo. From his video it definitely sounds louder and more unpleasant pitch. Could be a deal breaker for me as I like a quiet ride. But everything else about it looks amazing (except the price).
  40. I would also like to hear @Rob Hancill comments on motor noise vs the turbo levo. From his video it definitely sounds louder and more unpleasant pitch. Could be a deal breaker for me as I like a quiet ride. But everything else about it looks amazing (except the price).

    Agreed, the pricing is pretty outrageous…

  41. I would also like to hear @Rob Hancill comments on motor noise vs the turbo levo. From his video it definitely sounds louder and more unpleasant pitch. Could be a deal breaker for me as I like a quiet ride. But everything else about it looks amazing (except the price).

    I’ll do some comparisons. Louder, yes. Higher pitched. Probably a little quieter than the Shimano E8000. Not by much at higher cadences. More like a RC car pitch.

  42. Publication biased!? Or did I missed some thing?

    So what is so groundbreaking compared with Lapierre fazuabased ezesty? €7000 17.5kg 60Nm 250wh battery 1.4kg battery weight proper enduro geo, possible to ride i bare (analog) at 16kg. Specialized 16.9kg 30Nm 320wh battery xc allmountain geo at twice The price €140k.
    BULLS did a am fazua speced bike under 16kg.
    What is THE big deal? Smells like fanboys all The way to me😉

    Honestly the Fazua motor is nothing like this one. To start, at a cadence of 90 rpm the Fazua motor basically has no assistance left in the tank.

    Levo SL motor will give 240 watts of support up to 130 rpm. Think really quick pedal rotations over a rock… you still have support.

    The Fazua motor is 1 KG heavier. Has nasty ratchet sound when you stop peddling.

    The eZesty weighs 18.4 KG and has 20% smaller battery.

    Fazua motor has 15 degrees of rotation before the motor engages.

    If the eZesty was a great bike I’d tell you.

  43. What a great bike, it’s a shame the battery is not quick and easy to remove like the regular Levo. My bike lives in the shed and the battery in the house for charging and temperature, if it was kept in the house I’d be looking to swap. SHMBO would have something to say if suggested it!

    The add on battery is brilliant, pity they don’t offer one for the regular levo :(

  44. This sounds like the bike I’ve been waiting for. Demo nearly sorted and could have one by next week [emoji15][emoji85]

    Motor noise is a concern. Geom not as I like the levo, just wanna feel the lighter bike as I’m an active rider who uses very little support and what the shorter stays feels like.

    Interesting all models have fact 11m carbon, so no weight difference. As I’m swapping parts out the comp carbon makes sense, but none of the colours except founders edition and sworks float my boat [emoji17][emoji849]

  45. Awesome video @Rob Hancill and @TheBikePilot, was like watching a movie, watched quite a few reviews and the video of you guys stands out a mile.
    this is the bike for me and I’ve been waiting for but will have to wait as enjoying the Megatower so much, just a shame for a few extra grams they could of put a 36 on it and at least a coil, as the dpx isn’t a very good shock after long days riding.
    myb there trying for it to not overlap to much with a levo, but be interesting to see one with 36s and a cooler or better shoc.
  46. OPTIONS

    Thats the best thing about this Levo, to have the options to go whatever you like or prefer. Less power but also less weight, or more power more weight. Choose what you want.

    I don’t know nothing more than that many people would desired this kind of ebikes we’re available long time ago.

    Anything else is a sterile debate. The problem is when they killing the options! But create new ones is not good news, are great news!

    @Rob Hancill thank for the prime exclusive

  47. Honestly the Fazua motor is nothing like this one. To start, at a cadence of 90 rpm the Fazua motor basically has no assistance left in the tank.

    Levo SL motor will give 240 watts of support up to 130 rpm. Think really quick pedal rotations over a rock… you still have support.

    The Fazua motor is 1 KG heavier. Has nasty ratchet sound when you stop peddling.

    The eZesty weighs 18.4 KG and has 20% smaller battery.

    Fazua motor has 15 degrees of rotation before the motor engages.

    If the eZesty was a great bike I’d tell you.

    Hi Rob,
    Great Video.
    Have you ridden the Bulls WILD FLOW EVO SL . It tips the scales under 16kg. I would love to see a comparison.

  48. In 10 years would be worth around $1.000, if not used of course.:)
    Specialized thinks, that with this special editions would be like buying limited edition Hyper/Sports Car that go up in value over the years, not down.. :ROFLMAO:

    Why not have both 🤷‍♂️

    Tell you the truth, I almost did not buy it as it didn’t have a Yamaha motor. Merh, it’s only money right 🤷‍♂️

    View attachment 25454

  49. Rob, did they give an explanation of why they used plastic for one of the gears?

    The dinosaur in me would love to see a 2019 focus jam compared to the alloy sl…..this is the bike focus SHOULD have released for 2020.

  50. I would also like to hear @Rob Hancill comments on motor noise vs the turbo levo. From his video it definitely sounds louder and more unpleasant pitch. Could be a deal breaker for me as I like a quiet ride. But everything else about it looks amazing (except the price).

    Yeah, I was really howling on that uphill climb in the video. The one downfall of higher voltage is a corresponding increase in RPM of the motor hence the higher pitch.

  51. Yeah, I was really howling on that uphill climb in the video. The one downfall of higher voltage is a corresponding increase in RPM of the motor hence the higher pitch.

    Also means they can run a lower KV of the motor, which can allow less amps and better torque

  52. Nice to see the ip rating on the motor, but IIRC the TCu is the weakest pint on the full fat Levo in terms of warter resistance, have they sorted that out? Oterhwise you are probably going end up spending more time riding it without the battery out than in!

    Most exciting thing for me is when they produce a more powerful version of this motor and kick Brose into the grass

  53. Has anyone watched the Specilized promo video for the Levo SL on their Instagram?

    That bloke 1 minute into it the advert looks awfully familiar :unsure:

  54. Has anyone watched the Specilized promo video for the Levo SL on their Instagram?

    That bloke 1 minute into it the advert looks awfully familiar :unsure:

    reckon @Rob Hancill is applying for his equity card as we speak :D :D

    all those straight gears in that motor will make some noise, only way to quiet them I guess is bevelled gears or belt but it sounded quite noisy to the point where I would find it irritating.

  55. I guess it’ll be lighter to push or carry when it breaks down on the trail. Hopefully they‘ve put some effort into reliability and build quality. I’d sacrifice a few kgs to have an ebike with proper waterproofing and a reliable motor. Maybe this is time will tell
  56. ebike with proper waterproofing and a reliable motor

    I’m also a bit skeptical here, I think it’s hard to say if this motor will actually be better until it’s used in a mountain biking application, specially the waterproofing scenario. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are new issues that weren’t seen much on the road bike version.

  57. Awesome video @Rob Hancill and @TheBikePilot, was like watching a movie, watched quite a few reviews and the video of you guys stands out a mile.
    this is the bike for me and I’ve been waiting for but will have to wait as enjoying the Megatower so much, just a shame for a few extra grams they could of put a 36 on it and at least a coil, as the dpx isn’t a very good shock after long days riding.
    myb there trying for it to not overlap to much with a levo, but be interesting to see one with 36s and a cooler or better shoc.

    Agreed! Three video was so Pro! Well done Rob and BP. Best video to date for content, quality, audio, the lot [emoji1303] making waves!

  58. Has anyone watched the Specilized promo video for the Levo SL on their Instagram?

    That bloke 1 minute into it the advert looks awfully familiar :unsure:

    reckon @Rob Hancill is applying for his equity card as we speak :D :D

    all those straight gears in that motor will make some noise, only way to quiet them I guess is bevelled gears or belt but it sounded quite noisy to the point where I would find it irritating.

    This I need to find out. E8000 ala rest I couldn’t live with. Please don’t be need that noisy! The brose is perfect at noise levels. Not too intrusive

  59. ebike with proper waterproofing and a reliable motor

    I’m also a bit skeptical here, I think it’s hard to say if this motor will actually be better until it’s used in a mountain biking application, specially the waterproofing scenario. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are new issues that weren’t seen much on the road bike version.

    Ala levo revisited. If it ticks the boxes I’m jumping balls deep again. This bike sounds like the bike I wanted 2 years ago and dreamed about since getting the levo.

  60. Assuming someone would like to know the Levo SL Expert weight is 38.9 Lb/17.6kg. My 2020 Levo expert 48.4/21.9kg. Both bikes with Shimano SPD pedaIs. I checked both on the same scale so the difference is accurate.
  61. … all those straight gears in that motor will make some noise, only way to quiet them I guess is bevelled gears or belt but it sounded quite noisy to the point where I would find it irritating.

    Had a chance to ride an S-Works SL today briefly on pavement. Yes, the motor is a bit noisier than my 2019 Levo which is pretty quiet. However, the noise level was low even pushing it hard in Turbo mode, and on trails I think I’d only notice it climbing at slow speeds where there’s not a lot of other noise to mask it. Don’t consider it a negative at all. I’m not sure where Rob had the mic when he was recording the motor sound in the video. I never heard anything that "loud".

    Sweet bike, by the way. Just lacks the punch of the regular Levo. Also, no Acceleration Setting option in Mission Control. But that AXS seatpost, Oh my, I want to be so spoiled!

  62. all those straight gears in that motor will make some noise, only way to quiet them I guess is bevelled gears or belt but it sounded quite noisy to the point where I would find it irritating.

    Had a chance to ride an S-Works SL today briefly on pavement. Yes, the motor is a bit noisier than my 2019 Levo which is pretty quiet. However, the noise level was low even pushing it hard in Turbo mode, and on trails I think I’d only notice it climbing at slow speeds where there’s not a lot of other noise to mask it. Don’t consider it a negative at all. I’m not sure where Rob had the mic when he was recording the motor sound in the video. I never heard anything that "loud".

    I will have to go for a ride & check it out. A Mahle at 48V in a lightweight Levo sounds pretty good to me.

  63. nice bike and some very good engineering ideas, IP rated motor, waterproof plugs constant battery connection. All sounds like the problems we have been having have been addressed.
    Well it doesn’t make me very happy, while the spesh engineers have been beavering away on the sl it looks like all the levo and kenevo owners have been a bit "overlooked" what about fixing our crappy power cables, what about fixing our TCU’s that fill up with water if you sneeze on them, what about some quality control on the motors that have to get replaced, some guys have had up to five motor replacements in a bike thats not even a year old WTF!!
    between my wife and I we have spent around £30k on spesh ebikes, how about a bit of reengineering to fix our problems!!

    Just a little observation from the demo videos , it’s all well n good spouting the IP rating of this special Gore-tex prepped new motor and test it in SA in summer ….WTAF🤬 ! Test it on the boggy moors on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border, crank deep in slop and sandstone grinding paste then I might be impressed👎

  64. For those in the know. Can you comment on the weight difference between the Carbon and Aluminum Comp LEVO SL? Looks like the build between the 2 are identical. Curious how much weight you’re actually saving between materials for it to be worth 1K difference.
  65. February 4th 2020, the day non electric mountain bikes became obsolete. Bought it, love it. Maybe the best bike I’ve ridden. As much snap out of corners as my evil offering and power to take the sting out of any climb. Biggest overlooked point compared to my 19 Levo is if it’s turned off there is no resistance, it totally decouples. I could pedal it out of anywhere with the 1×12. The OG levo is a bit of a pig to fly home dead stick. I rode 2 rides today one 2000ft 14 mile lap on the SL and a 4000ft 23 mile loop on my all coil 19 Levo. They are so different I’m probably the 0.01% that is lucky enough to own both and one doesn’t replace the other. But man does that SL ride great!
  66. February 4th 2020, the day non electric mountain bikes became obsolete. Bought it, love it. Maybe the best bike I’ve ridden. As much snap out of corners as my evil offering and power to take the sting out of any climb. Biggest overlooked point compared to my 19 Levo is if it’s turned off there is no resistance, it totally decouples. I could pedal it out of anywhere with the 1×12. The OG levo is a bit of a pig to fly home dead stick. I rode 2 rides today one 2000ft 14 mile lap on the SL and a 4000ft 23 mile loop on my all coil 19 Levo. They are so different I’m probably the 0.01% that is lucky enough to own both and one doesn’t replace the other. But man does that SL ride great!

    View attachment 25463

    Sweet ride 👍 how noisy is the motor? Seems crazy loud in robs video

  67. How was the motor in the puddles ? I’ve ridden these trails around hurstwood, ok but shoulda climbed up to gorple rocks and the soggy off piste stuff on the moors ! 💪

    Agreed but I think this as close as it’s going to get to a representative test for us northerners. The next step is a test ride. I’m willing to bet that given the lauding of the new sealing this is going to be better than the Brose Levo and there’s plenty of those about.

  68. For those in the know. Can you comment on the weight difference between the Carbon and Aluminum Comp LEVO SL? Looks like the build between the 2 are identical. Curious how much weight you’re actually saving between materials for it to be worth 1K difference.

    It was close to 1kg from memory with the levo. Something I couldn’t justify for 2k on the original levo lineup.

  69. If Spesh want to send me some demo bikes for a couple of months, I’m happy to setup a free demo centre.. :)

    I can perform some extensive real world crash testing at the same time.

  70. well I posted this video link on some of the ‘normal’ facebook groups and pretty much got nothing but hate.. so, will this even bridge the gap as expected given the reaction or is it just a matter of time ?
  71. Got a ’19 Levo, very happy with it. Robs comments on geometry are pluses for me (he’s pretty tall! – I’m not and super long reach is a negative for me).

    Looks to me like the SL vs full gas Levo is trading turbo mode for a 9 pound weight saving, 15mm shorter chain stays, rolling both my Levo and my bio powered FS trail bike into 1 bike, and plausible fly-ability.

    Absolute no brainer to me.

    I use turbo mode because it’s there but would happily do without. I still work hard all the same.

  72. why is that a deal breaker for you?

    Couple of things:

    1. My (secure) storage has no power supply, so I’ll be moving the Levo SL around the house to get it charged for a few hours then put away. Can ‘live with that’ but putting up with downsides is difficult when you’re spending £7.5k.

    2. I like to do day long rides, but wont be able to take the battery in to a cafe/pub to charge at lunch time. The Extender would certainly help here, so I think I am over this objection now.

    I am coming around to the fixed battery… It might be okay…

  73. Couple of things:

    1. My (secure) storage has no power supply, so I’ll be moving the Levo SL around the house to get it charged for a few hours then put away. Can ‘live with that’ but putting up with downsides is difficult when you’re spending £7.5k.

    2. I like to do day long rides, but wont be able to take the battery in to a cafe/pub to charge at lunch time. The Extender would certainly help here, so I think I am over this objection now.

    I am coming around to the fixed battery… It might be okay…

    good points thanks.

    one thing I’m thinking re range is this will be a lot easier to pedal unpowered than the full fat Levo. I’m OK with bio-power in the mix.

  74. Can anyone with a better handle on it than i do suggest a setting for the Specialized app on the current levo that would mirror the asssitance of the SL on trail mode. No chance of finding an XL demo I suspect so may as well use my current levo to test how the assistance feels relative to ‘normal’.
  75. Can anyone with a better handle on it than i do suggest a setting for the Specialized app on the current levo that would mirror the asssitance of the SL on trail mode. No chance of finding an XL demo I suspect so may as well use my current levo to test how the assistance feels relative to ‘normal’.

    Rob says in the video that Turbo feels similar to a FF Levo in Trail mode.

    Presumably the configuration on the SL is configurable as it is on the FF.

    But if you work on the basic factory statistics that the motor is about half as powerful in terms of watts, but delivers a lower but squarer torque curve, then limit your FF (Full Fat) levo to 50% maximum would probably give you an idea of the SL on Turbo. Set the limit on the FF to 35% to give a very rough idea of Trail in default on the SL. The SL is also lighter and Rob states the motor has virtually no drag, so if it’s better than what those numbers propose, then that’s a bonus.

    It’s a totally different motor, so no matter what you do, you won’t be able to emulate it exactly, but that might give you a rough idea what you’re playing with.

    Ride 5 minutes with the motor off first and no matter how low your settings are, it will feels amazing afterwards :)

  76. So if we take the Levo power modes, they roughly work out to this, on default settings. Obviously you can tune trail / eco to over up to 560 watts, but this might give a real rough guide:

    Turbo Levo
    Turbo 560 watts
    Trail 340 watts
    Eco 170 watts

    Levo SL
    Turbo 240 watts
    Trail 150 watts
    Eco 80 watts

    Like I mentioned, these are rough guesstimates, but based around mission control 100 / 60 / 30 settings in motor power.

    You also gain a bit of extra efficiency of your human power due to lighter bike, so likely you are making small gains on your peddling performance into forward momentum.

  77. Naturally the SL has been compared to the Levo FSR/Brose in reviews etc. That’s understandable but can anyone who’s ridden plenty of Shimano E8000 bikes (@Rob Hancill ? 24kg like the YT DEcoy maybe) tell me how the SL might compare there?

    I spend most time in Trail mode as it adapts to the effort put in. Boost mode really hoists you up a hill (which I expect the SL doesn’t) but is, say, an SL in Turbo mode like Trail mode on the e8000?

    I expect there’ll be quite a few thinking this way too.

  78. I remain a bit skeptical about the claims that a Levo SL can go as far as a Turbo Levo…

    But I would totally use the low power Eco and Trail modes. On my existing bike I always feel I need a lower support mode for my day long rides.

    I also note the claims that the motor is 80% efficient… that sounds good but how does it compare to the Brose?

  79. I remain a bit skeptical about the claims that a Levo SL can go as far as a Turbo Levo…

    @TheBikePilot and I used almost exactly the same battery. He was on the Regular Levo with 700Wh battery, I was on the SL with the range extender so 480Wh.

    On a 23 mile ride we both returned with about 50%. Approx 3000ft of vertical.

    Brose uses 21 amps
    SL motor uses 7 amps

    I was a bit lighter as he had a backpack with camera gear.

  80. Thanks Rob re support of Levo to the SL.

    The problem with all this is that it has started me thinking that an ideal pairing would be a Levo SL and a Kenevo.

  81. So went into EBC today to size up the SL bike as geometry against my current bike placed me somewhere in the middle of a M and L. After a sit on both bikes and a wee cycle in shop L is more my size. Demo booked for this weekend

    View attachment 25476

  82. I remain a bit skeptical about the claims that a Levo SL can go as far as a Turbo Levo…

    Agreed – the reduction in bike weight is obviously impactful to how it feels for the rider, but in terms of the AUW (bike+rider+kit) is pretty small – I guess around 5% for an average 80kg rider? To me that means it wouldn’t go as far on <50% of the battery unless significantly lower support levels are used i.e. you are going to have to be a fair bit fitter. Nothing wrong with that, but it is certainly not going to suit a lot of current riders who enjoy the feel of higher power bikes.

  83. Hows the fox 34 handle @Rob Hancill ? feel like you need something burlier? Given that 38 lbs is still heavy compared to most enduro bikes where a 34 would be laughed at.. curious that Spesh went this way even though it’s obvious to shave as much weight as possible
  84. Hows the fox 34 handle @Rob Hancill ? feel like you need something burlier? Given that 38 lbs is still heavy compared to most enduro bikes where a 34 would be laughed at.. curious that Spesh went this way even though it’s obvious to shave as much weight as possible

    The Fox 34 factory seemed fine to me on the trails in South Africa. They were not chunky though. More like long flowy rolling berms with some 6 foot gaps etc. Might not be still enough for some, I couldn’t tell you that I found it flex though… But often, its not until you compare forks back to back you notice.

    I think Spesh are selling this as a trail ripper… and if an Enduro version comes out no doubt it’ll have a 36 on it…

  85. Agreed – the reduction in bike weight is obviously impactful to how it feels for the rider, but in terms of the AUW (bike+rider+kit) is pretty small – I guess around 5% for an average 80kg rider? To me that means it wouldn’t go as far on <50% of the battery unless significantly lower support levels are used i.e. you are going to have to be a fair bit fitter. Nothing wrong with that, but it is certainly not going to suit a lot of current riders who enjoy the feel of higher power bikes.

    Lots of emtbs go to people who can’t or don’t want to (in practice) ride a bio bike.

    I think the SL is aimed at those who would and can. It’s competing against the Stumpy not the full gas Levo.

    It’s basically a market segmentation play. Which is smart – establish a niche and dominate it. Plus the more variants of one’s product on the dealers’ floors the less space there is for competitors. (Same reason there are 50 variations of washing up liquid on the supermarket shelf).

  86. Does this also tell us Spesh don’t see any game-changing tech breakthroughs on the short term horizon?

    So advancement for now is repackaging and refinement?

  87. Seems many people still don’t understand for who this light ebikes are for. This not truly made for the ebikers, this to catch the normal bike riders! Is a bike that almost handles like a normal bike but still you have a motor … 250w motor + 250w legs equals 500w … that’s more than a top pro cyclist with his ass full of epo average to the cranks. That numbers are no joke amigos!

    Team Sky data release shows Chris Froome’s power for that Giro d’Italia attack and what he ate to lose weight during race – Cycling Weekly

  88. Naturally the SL has been compared to the Levo FSR/Brose in reviews etc. That’s understandable but can anyone who’s ridden plenty of Shimano E8000 bikes (@Rob Hancill ? 24kg like the YT DEcoy maybe) tell me how the SL might compare there?

    I spend most time in Trail mode as it adapts to the effort put in. Boost mode really hoists you up a hill (which I expect the SL doesn’t) but is, say, an SL in Turbo mode like Trail mode on the e8000?

    I expect there’ll be quite a few thinking this way too.

    Anyone? Or is it only the spesh-heads in this thread 😁

  89. nice bike and some very good engineering ideas, IP rated motor, waterproof plugs constant battery connection. All sounds like the problems we have been having have been addressed.
    Well it doesn’t make me very happy, while the spesh engineers have been beavering away on the sl it looks like all the levo and kenevo owners have been a bit "overlooked" what about fixing our crappy power cables, what about fixing our TCU’s that fill up with water if you sneeze on them, what about some quality control on the motors that have to get replaced, some guys have had up to five motor replacements in a bike thats not even a year old WTF!!
    between my wife and I we have spent around £30k on spesh ebikes, how about a bit of reengineering to fix our problems!!

    I am absolutely stunned that all these resources have been spent to develop a new bike yet no news about permanent fixes regarding motors and electrical parts . When are we going to be informed that Specialized has redesigned these parts and that they will be available for their clients ? Whats the point in changing bad broken pieces for bad new pieces ! Please , give us a permanent fix to the known problems . Thank you .

  90. The Fox 34 factory seemed fine to me on the trails in South Africa. They were not chunky though. More like long flowy rolling berms with some 6 foot gaps etc. Might not be still enough for some, I couldn’t tell you that I found it flex though… But often, its not until you compare forks back to back you notice.

    I think Spesh are selling this as a trail ripper… and if an Enduro version comes out no doubt it’ll have a 36 on it…

    the 34mm lyrik are more than capable on my "normal" orbea Rallon , if I do take the plunge plan is to stick some lyrik ultimates on front end. I ve had RS for years now without issues. Stick with what I know. Look out for cheap fox forks for sale

  91. On a 23 mile ride we both returned with about 50%. Approx 3000ft of vertical.

    In that case would it be fair to say that you added more bio power than he did?

    Another way to put this is, anyone can setup their 700 WHr Levo to output a similar assist level/power output as a Levo SL and than if that test is repeated the SL should have less mileage.

  92. So this £11k bike does it ride as good as a £3k normal bike ? I’m a big ebike fan as I have a knackered knee but if I had a choice I’d be on a normal bike any day of the week. I’m struggling with the concept of an £11k bike with lower power and less range. If you add the extender it’s no longer the super light bike.
    But they will sell everyone of them so who cares what I think lol
  93. Surprised that no one has commented on the Levo SL tires. There is absolutely no way I will ever go back to 2.3 inch tires ever again with our frequently wet greasy off-camber roots. 2.8 was too cumbersome but 2.5/2.6 is the sweet spot for me with a Hillbilly front and rear presently. Can run lower pressure which softens the trail chatter considerably and the new hillbilly sidewalls are quite stiff with good support.
    Problem is they’re heavier than 2.3 inch tires, and then you need a 200 mm rotor on that rear brake for our long, high speed downhill runs and most of my rides would need the second battery, all of which is going to push the weight up to where is maybe only 4-5 pounds lighter than my present 2020 Levo Sworks. Yawn. And only time will tell whether our frequent top of the mountain six hr rides would possibly need a second booster battery in a pack as well. Yikes 2-3 lbs lighter.
    Our mountains are steep and I repeatedly need every single one of those 90 Newton meters in Turbo to make it up the section even being one of the strongest climbers in our area. In fact we have run out of juice on the early rides with even the 700 Wh hour battery and I have had to boost trail mode up to maxing out at 75% to try to stay out of turbo mode more in order to make the battery last the whole ride. The problem with the smart function is it won’t even let you access turbo mode on steep climbs for that length of a ride, and so it’s not very useful for us.
    No way this bike would work for me, which is really nice because I just bought the sucker this year ha ha. So really nice bike to drool over but it’s just not for me and I’ll bet that’ll turn out to be pretty common actually among aggressive ebike riders. I’ll be watching to see how many others say the same. Seen a few comments already.
  94. Naturally the SL has been compared to the Levo FSR/Brose in reviews etc. That’s understandable but can anyone who’s ridden plenty of Shimano E8000 bikes (@Rob Hancill ? 24kg like the YT DEcoy maybe) tell me how the SL might compare there?

    I spend most time in Trail mode as it adapts to the effort put in. Boost mode really hoists you up a hill (which I expect the SL doesn’t) but is, say, an SL in Turbo mode like Trail mode on the e8000?

    I expect there’ll be quite a few thinking this way too.

    If you ride in trail. This is not the bike for you

  95. All everyone is talking about is power, battery and performance. For me it was the agility. Threw this bike around today, like I normally would a bike and…wow! Compared to my lighter levo (21.5kg), this is a lightweight! And it wasn’t even three model I’m getting [emoji4][emoji6] It was so much easier to manual and hop. Coming from a regular bike, yeah you’ll notice it’s heavier. From an ebike or even the lighter levo you’ll think you’re on steroids… Of that’s how you roll. If you sit, spin and just roll down your trails, this isn’t for you. If you pop, Huck, and play on your bike, then your can with this like no other ebike, yet still get back to for a few extra runs.

    This is the bike I wanted two years ago instead of coming home beat up from moving that levo weight around. I felt like a kid again messing around. Order placed! [emoji41]

  96. Surprised that no one has commented on the Levo SL tires. There is absolutely no way I will ever go back to 2.3 inch tires ever again with our frequently wet greasy off-camber roots. 2.8 was too cumbersome but 2.5/2.6 is the sweet spot for me with a Hillbilly front and rear presently. Can run lower pressure which softens the trail chatter considerably and the new hillbilly sidewalls are quite stiff with good support.
    Problem is they’re heavier than 2.3 inch tires, and then you need a 200 mm rotor on that rear brake for our long, high speed downhill runs and most of my rides would need the second battery, all of which is going to push the weight up to where is maybe only 4-5 pounds lighter than my present 2020 Levo Sworks. Yawn. And only time will tell whether our frequent top of the mountain six hr rides would possibly need a second booster battery in a pack as well. Yikes 2-3 lbs lighter.
    Our mountains are steep and I repeatedly need every single one of those 90 Newton meters in Turbo to make it up the section even being one of the strongest climbers in our area. In fact we have run out of juice on the early rides with even the 700 Wh hour battery and I have had to boost trail mode up to maxing out at 75% to try to stay out of turbo mode more in order to make the battery last the whole ride. The problem with the smart function is it won’t even let you access turbo mode on steep climbs for that length of a ride, and so it’s not very useful for us.
    No way this bike would work for me, which is really nice because I just bought the sucker this year ha ha. So really nice bike to drool over but it’s just not for me and I’ll bet that’ll turn out to be pretty common actually among aggressive ebike riders. I’ll be watching to see how many others say the same. Seen a few comments already.

    Two types of rider that need wider tyres. [emoji6][emoji16]

  97. Now that the dust has settled… I think it’s not for me.

    Let’s face it, some of the weight savings on the SL comes from:
    – 2.3 light casing tyres
    – fox 34 fork
    – dps shock
    – smaller battery

    For my weight and riding style, I want a 36 fork, a X2 shock and 2.5-2.6 tyres. Theoretically, if I took the Levo SL base aluminium model (the only one I’m willing to afford) and switched for those heavier components and I add the range extender, I bet I’ll be roughly at the same weight as a Decoy Pro Race (23 kg), which is about the same price but it has a real motor.

    Different strokes for different folks.

  98. Now that the dust has settled… I think it’s not for me.

    Let’s face it, some of the weight savings on the SL comes from:
    – 2.3 light casing tyres
    – fox 34 fork
    – dps shock
    – smaller battery

    For my weight and riding style, I want a 36 fork, a X2 shock and 2.5-2.6 tyres. Theoretically, if I took the Levo SL base aluminium model (the only one I’m willing to afford) and switched for those heavier components and I add the range extender, I bet I’ll be roughly at the same weight as a Decoy Pro Race (23 kg), which is about the same price but it has a real motor.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    Ñ
    36 factory: +100grs
    X2: +200grs
    2 Eliminator black dmnd: +200g
    Extender 160w: 1kg
    —-> Levo Sl alloy: 20.9, but the extender you can put in the bag for downhill. 19.90… change cassete NX for X01. 350grs. 19.65kg And tubeless off course, another grams..
    Your welcome!

  99. Surprised that no one has commented on the Levo SL tires. There is absolutely no way I will ever go back to 2.3 inch tires ever again with our frequently wet greasy off-camber roots. 2.8 was too cumbersome but 2.5/2.6 is the sweet spot for me with a Hillbilly front and rear presently. Can run lower pressure which softens the trail chatter considerably and the new hillbilly sidewalls are quite stiff with good support.
    Problem is they’re heavier than 2.3 inch tires, and then you need a 200 mm rotor on that rear brake for our long, high speed downhill runs and most of my rides would need the second battery, all of which is going to push the weight up to where is maybe only 4-5 pounds lighter than my present 2020 Levo Sworks. Yawn. And only time will tell whether our frequent top of the mountain six hr rides would possibly need a second booster battery in a pack as well. Yikes 2-3 lbs lighter.
    Our mountains are steep and I repeatedly need every single one of those 90 Newton meters in Turbo to make it up the section even being one of the strongest climbers in our area. In fact we have run out of juice on the early rides with even the 700 Wh hour battery and I have had to boost trail mode up to maxing out at 75% to try to stay out of turbo mode more in order to make the battery last the whole ride. The problem with the smart function is it won’t even let you access turbo mode on steep climbs for that length of a ride, and so it’s not very useful for us.
    No way this bike would work for me, which is really nice because I just bought the sucker this year ha ha. So really nice bike to drool over but it’s just not for me and I’ll bet that’ll turn out to be pretty common actually among aggressive ebike riders. I’ll be watching to see how many others say the same. Seen a few comments already.

    yeah sneaky weight save on the tyres.

    I think the SL is not so suitable for mountainous terrain or winch and plummet riding.

    But where I live is hilly not mountainous and my riding is "aggressive XC" with flow and singletrack – I think it’ll be great. Still think I’d put 2.6 on!

  100. So for height of 5ft 9 and inside leg of 30, medium or large ?
    Definitely going to get a demo on one of these..
  101. So for height of 5ft 9 and inside leg of 30, medium or large ?
    Definitely going to get a demo on one of these..

    I’m about that size. When I was in the market for the Levo I demo’ed the medium. It was a little small for my tastes. I think large might be more fro my taste at least. It depends how long you like the reach. What’s the reach on your current bike?

  102. So for height of 5ft 9 and inside leg of 30, medium or large ?
    Definitely going to get a demo on one of these..

    I’d say a Large, Medium felt too cramped

    on a good day I’m 5’8" sat on a M and L yesterday. Got a L booked to demo over weekend. Will see how that goes.

  103. . What’s the reach on your current bike?

    447 and 445, which would say I should be on large, but think I’d have to get the dropper sized down to a 125mm as currently bikes have seat tubes of 440 and I can just get a 150 dropper in..

  104. I have Trail set to low and I’m light so are you saying that the SL would be like Shimano’s Eco mode all the time? I’m not sure that holds does it?

    “The Turbo Levo now features 5 different modes, Eco, Trail, Turbo, as well as two further modes which are accessed directly from the Mission Control app, Stealth and Shuttle.”

    Does anyone know if this still holds for the SL? What’s Shuttle mode like? I’d like to know the extent of the compromise.

    The reason for these questions? I’ve recently had a change in the extent of my disability and the lighter bike would really help (I’ve always built very light bikes), however due to the nature of my disability the ability to power up a hill helps on my bad days. Shimano’s Boost is always overkill so I know I can compromise but it would be nice to understand more before I have a test ride (which is a must, of course).

    I know there’s a few other people on here with disabilities, whether that is arthritis, post-op, etc. People’s requirements are wide and complex but that’s the beauty of ebikes!

  105. Selecting your desired heart rate and the bike adjusting assistance to maintain this rate is a fantastic feature for fitness training. Surely all manufacturers must follow suit on this. Come on Cube!!! 😃
  106. Ñ
    36 factory: +100grs
    X2: +200grs
    2 Eliminator black dmnd: +200g
    Extender 160w: 1kg
    —-> Levo Sl alloy: 20.9, but the extender you can put in the bag for downhill. 19.90… change cassete NX for X01. 350grs. 19.65kg And tubeless off course, another grams..
    Your welcome!

    Interesting, thanks for putting in the research. So 20.9 kg (because you’re still carrying the extender even if it’s in your pack) + 1.5 kg is 22.4kg compared to 23.1 kg for the Decoy.

    In all cases, probably still an apples to oranges comparison. Those are two bikes with very different purposes/intended markets. Plus so many other factors will affect how the bikes fells and rides. But you gotta give it to Spech, this is a very well executed big step that will open up a new segment in the industry.

  107. I’d say a Large, Medium felt too cramped

    on a good day I’m 5’8" sat on a M and L yesterday. Got a L booked to demo over weekend. Will see how that goes.

    How do you get a weekend demo with EBC? I was going to go in on my way home from work for a look. I’d love to try one at Pitfichie or something to see how the power compares to my Rail. I’m somewhere between 6ft 1 and 6ft 2 – and judging by the reach etc, the XL would be almost the same as my L Rail.

  108. “The Turbo Levo now features 5 different modes, Eco, Trail, Turbo, as well as two further modes which are accessed directly from the Mission Control app, Stealth and Shuttle.”

    Does anyone know if this still holds for the SL? What’s Shuttle mode like? I’d like to know the extent of the compromise.

    Ok I can answer my own question here for the Shimano e8000. The reason I couldn’t is that I’m 5 weeks post major operation however went out for the first time (light duty!). Anyway, in case anyone else is interested.

    I fired up Stepsunlocker and adjusted Trail and Eco modes to 240 watts, 35nm torque. These will behave differently as Steps Trail mode responds to input more – like the Levo does in the main assist modes.

    Most of my usual running is in the Calder Valley but I’m not there right now so only small hills but I can confirm that choosing the right cadence I think I might be able to live with the reduced level of assistance if the bike is more nimble.

    Only a test ride will confirm so that might be a few weeks yet.

  109. ok so I sort get the weight thing but unless you can afford the 10k for the s works SL what actually is the weight difference between say a levo carbon expert and the SL carbon?
    Isn’t the pop and flick effect of the SL more down to the shorter chainstays than the lighter weight?
  110. “The Turbo Levo now features 5 different modes, Eco, Trail, Turbo, as well as two further modes which are accessed directly from the Mission Control app, Stealth and Shuttle.”

    Does anyone know if this still holds for the SL? What’s Shuttle mode like? I’d like to know the extent of the compromise.

    The reason for these questions? I’ve recently had a change in the extent of my disability and the lighter bike would really help (I’ve always built very light bikes), however due to the nature of my disability the ability to power up a hill helps on my bad days. Shimano’s Boost is always overkill so I know I can compromise but it would be nice to understand more before I have a test ride (which is a must, of course).

    I know there’s a few other people on here with disabilities, whether that is arthritis, post-op, etc. People’s requirements are wide and complex but that’s the beauty of ebikes!

    presumably you can still power up hills, you just may go slower for a given pedal effort.

    there are probably edge cases where a full gas Levo will get a rider up something an SL won’t. do they matter? (not to me, it’s right out on the edge of the envelope).

  111. presumably you can still power up hills, you just may go slower for a given pedal effort.

    there are probably edge cases where a full gas Levo will get a rider up something an SL won’t. do they matter? (not to me, it’s right out on the edge of the envelope).

    Yes, I’m pretty confident no incline will be a problem in my case. Just slower and maybe being more conscious of cadence (which matters less on the SL compared to the e8000 anyway – Specialized pride themselves on the flatter torque curve – see Rob’s interview with Marco Sonderegger here: Specialized Levo SL – Is the motor tough enough? – EMTB Forums).

  112. thank you, so add the range extender to the expert and you get what 18.5kgs? my wifes s works levo with a 500w battery is under 19kgs

    18.7kg as I think the 160watt extender is 1kg. That sounds low for the S-Works full fat Levo but if so that’s impressive.

  113. How do you get a weekend demo with EBC? I was going to go in on my way home from work for a look. I’d love to try one at Pitfichie or something to see how the power compares to my Rail. I’m somewhere between 6ft 1 and 6ft 2 – and judging by the reach etc, the XL would be almost the same as my L Rail.

    went into shop and arranged it with them. Only had M and L in demo I think

  114. its a medium, tubes chucked and lightweight tyres fitted. Plus a couple of other tweaks including a 500wh battery.
    I think factory specced its 20.5kgs with a 700wh battery
  115. Black SL Expert in the window of Ace Cycles, Merrow. Lush. (Not the best photo).

    I’m currently researching second hand values for my 6 month old Carbon Comp. I could be in trouble here.

  116. Anyone know the weights for the 3 lower models, I’ve only seen them for the S Works and Expert. Base must be pushing 20kg with extender battery?
  117. I’ll ask when I go in tonight. Which models do they have?
    I assume you have to leave a credit card or something?

    Display was expert and comp I think.

    Demo coming up from somewhere and is an expert, yes they take a swipe of credit card, refunded on return

  118. Interesting, thanks for putting in the research. So 20.9 kg (because you’re still carrying the extender even if it’s in your pack) + 1.5 kg is 22.4kg compared to 23.1 kg for the Decoy.

    In all cases, probably still an apples to oranges comparison. Those are two bikes with very different purposes/intended markets. Plus so many other factors will affect how the bikes fells and rides. But you gotta give it to Spech, this is a very well executed big step that will open up a new segment in the industry.

    You can get the Trek rail 9.9 that weighs in at 21.33kg.
    Bigger battery, better range.

  119. Display was expert and comp I think.

    Demo coming up from somewhere and is an expert, yes they take a swipe of credit card, refunded on return

    £50 a day for the demo? I wonder if they have more than 1 available. Might ask for a midweek one as the trails would be empty.

  120. Take a 2020 Levo S-Works with same equipment than the SL and 500Wh battery => 19,6kg

    Take a Levo SL with extender (total 480Wh)
    18, 2kg

    Less power, less autonomy and flexibility for only 1,4 kg, non sense for me

  121. standard for demos seems to be they put a change on your card for the full value of the bike which is cancelled when you return it. and a fee for the demo, which is credited if you purchase.

    bike shops have to stay in business, there are plenty of tea-leaves out there (they come in credible packages) and plenty of punters happy to use a demo as free bike hire if they could.

  122. Take a 2020 Levo S-Works with same equipment than the SL and 500Wh battery => 19,6kg

    Take a Levo SL with extender (total 480Wh)
    18, 2kg

    Less power, less autonomy and flexibility for only 1,4 kg, non sense for me

    If you think you’d always ride with the Range Extender then, yes, you’re probably right.

  123. Anyone know the weights for the 3 lower models, I’ve only seen them for the S Works and Expert. Base must be pushing 20kg with extender battery?

    I’ve heard 19.5kg for the Alloy model.. doesn’t seem any lighter imho, when you take smaller battery, lighter forks and tyres.

  124. I’ve heard 19.5kg for the Alloy model.. doesn’t seem any lighter imho, when you take smaller battery, lighter forks and tyres.

    wouldn’t expect it to be otherwise as that plus the motor is where the weight savings are. there’ll be a bit on the frame (smaller tubes, it looks) but not much.

  125. Does this also tell us Spesh don’t see any game-changing tech breakthroughs on the short term horizon?

    So advancement for now is repackaging and refinement?

    Probably. I suspect advances in the next few years will be limited to improved reliability (through waterproofing and iterative internal design improvements like cable sealing an routing) and motor efficiency (assuming the next gen motors all go to higher voltages and lower currents). These are likely to be incremental rather than step change improvements though; we need a significant leap in battery tech to get the energy density packs that allow a "full fat" 500-700Wh trail and enduro bikes between 16-18kg. Even if that leap in battery tech came tomorrow there would still be a big delay before the tech got to ebikes though – automotive and industrial applications will be first in line for the new cells.

  126. Comment I read on a review that works for me: "don’t think of the SL as an eMTB, think of it as a trail bike with a motor".
  127. ok so I sort get the weight thing but unless you can afford the 10k for the s works SL what actually is the weight difference between say a levo carbon expert and the SL carbon?
    Isn’t the pop and flick effect of the SL more down to the shorter chainstays than the lighter weight?

    Both rear end and weight. I took the comp carbon out and I’ve got a light levo 21.5 and the difference was night and day for how it feels.

  128. I’ve heard 19.5kg for the Alloy model.. doesn’t seem any lighter imho, when you take smaller battery, lighter forks and tyres.

    So 2O.5kg with battery and call it 21Kg with decent tyres. Add a water bottle (which you can’t cos there’s a battery in the way) and your at 2019 Levo comp carbon weight.

  129. So 2O.5kg with battery and call it 21Kg with decent tyres. Add a water bottle (which you can’t cos there’s a battery in the way) and your at 2019 Levo comp carbon weight.

    habitually running an extender on an SL? buy a Levo.

    water bottle point not relevant – I carry a bottle on my Levo too.

    tyres – fair point.

  130. Probably. I suspect advances in the next few years will be limited to improved reliability (through waterproofing and iterative internal design improvements like cable sealing an routing) and motor efficiency (assuming the next gen motors all go to higher voltages and lower currents). These are likely to be incremental rather than step change improvements though; we need a significant leap in battery tech to get the energy density packs that allow a "full fat" 500-700Wh trail and enduro bikes between 16-18kg. Even if that leap in battery tech came tomorrow there would still be a big delay before the tech got to ebikes though – automotive and industrial applications will be first in line for the new cells.

    Just weighed a Stumpjumper Comp in our shop today (alloy) and it was 15,4 kg. I don’t think we’ll ever see a ”full fat” e-bike at 16 kg ☹

  131. 6’3” / 191cm and I rode the XL

    I M 1.80 and i fell ok on large,one of my escape emtb friend is 1.88 with levo expert xl and say the same:too short.For me the l is good maybe i’d prefer a little bit longer but xl is too big for me.I wish in future we will choice by the Kenevo 2020 system are you agree with me,ciao @Rob Hancill !!!

  132. In summary, it’s about 10lbs lighter than most other ebikes for similar spec. Kinda what the reviews say…..
  133. yeah sneaky weight save on the tyres.

    I think the SL is not so suitable for mountainous terrain or winch and plummet riding.

    But where I live is hilly not mountainous and my riding is "aggressive XC" with flow and singletrack – I think it’ll be great. Still think I’d put 2.6 on!

    it’s hardly sneaky

    FFS. I run an 850g 2.3 rear on both my 170mm travel Enduro bikes riding steep technical Enduro/DH trails in all conditions in Scotland… I’m fairly sure you’d manage just fine on one in Surrey doing "agressive XC" with flow whatever that might be.
    :ROFLMAO:

  134. Isn’t the old adage that it’s £1 a gram to lose weight? Mind you, comparing apples to apples then I think the pricing on these could be more shocking (apart from the S-Works models of course).
  135. Got a test ride booked for Saturday. Collect it tomorrow evening to get it set up – and then hit the trail early on Saturday morning before the storm comes in! It’s a Large I’m getting, which felt fine to sit on in the store. I still think I may be better with XL as the geometry is more like my Rail.

    I’ve done a GoPro video of my Stumpjumper, and then my Rail on the same route… so I’m going to do that route on the Levo SL Expert, and see how they all compare.

  136. Isn’t the old adage that it’s £1 a gram to lose weight? Mind you, comparing apples to apples then I think the pricing on these could be more shocking (apart from the S-Works models of course).

    they ain’t cheap bicycles but yeah I was braced for more.

    tho I also have the take into account a £1500 hit if I flipped my 19 Levo.

  137. Got a test ride booked for Saturday. Collect it tomorrow evening to get it set up – and then hit the trail early on Saturday morning before the storm comes in! It’s a Large I’m getting, which felt fine to sit on in the store. I still think I may be better with XL as the geometry is more like my Rail.

    I’ve done a GoPro video of my Stumpjumper, and then my Rail on the same route… so I’m going to do that route on the Levo SL Expert, and see how they all compare.

    Yes you have me to thank for that, cancelled my weekend demo in favour of midweek due to forecast

  138. Yes you have me to thank for that, cancelled my weekend demo in favour of midweek due to forecast

    Forecast looks a tad windy… but should be ok up until about 11am. After that it’s up to about 50mph winds. I just want to compare the same climbs as I’ve done on the Rail with the SL and see what it / I am capable of.
    I should manage that in 2 hours.
    Saturday will save me taking a day off work though.

    From the sound of it, someone is booked in for Sunday, as they need it back for about 5pm so they can prep it. They’re building it tomorrow!!

  139. I like the punch my normal Levo provides so I am staying put but damn 10lbs is a lot! Looking forward to a lighter full juice motor with smaller/lighter battery options. Although I’m glad to have a 700wh after toasting my 500wh battery in about 8 miles on a super demanding ride in NM.
  140. Most folk are discecting farts here!!!! As regards weight/ amp hr / battery size/ tyre spec/ water bottle capacity/ multi tool size !!! Holy fuck it’s not F1! Just get out , pedal and enjoy it ! #grumpycunt.com
  141. Went to my local shop to check them out. You can easily pedal this bike without power. It felt like a regular bike. Kind of amazing. It definitely was a bit noisier then the LEVO. At high candence you can really hear the whine. It felt as light as a aluminum stumpy comp picking them up back to back.

    The S-Works is gorgeous of course. And the surprise was the comp carbon in the berry color. It was pretty unique!

    View attachment 25565

    View attachment 25564

    View attachment 25563

    View attachment 25562

  142. This was my Levo Comp Carbon weight. Tubeless no pedals. 22.44KG

    My Comp Carbon Levo SL is 18.2 KG for reference. Again, tubeless, no pedals.

    Levo Comp Carbon in XL:

    View attachment 25534

    Levo SL Comp Carbon:

    View attachment 25536

    4.2kg makes a big difference! 20% weight reduction. People talk about all these numbers but neglect to notice weight. Imagine 20% more battery, or power! It shouldn’t be knocked that people want those numbers in weight reduction.

  143. They need to do one with the new enduro’s new suspension design. Its 40% more efficient in pedaling than the current stumpjumper, not to mention, is a ton better on the downhill.

    I’m fine with less power, but if I am having to pedal it harder, that energy shouldnt be so wasted. There is no way that spesh doesnt update the SJ in the next year or two with the new suspension. If you look at the "xray" promo schematics they have released of the sl, they have room to do that low mounted suspension.

    It’s impossible, needed the same space in BB pedal man.

  144. for weight reference: real world weight of my 2019 Levo Comb Carbon in medium: 21.7kg (with pedals, Minion DHF on the front, carbon bars, Ergon saddle, otherwise stock).
  145. This was my Levo Comp Carbon weight. Tubeless no pedals. 22.44KG

    My Comp Carbon Levo SL is 18.2 KG for reference. Again, tubeless, no pedals.

    for weight reference: real world weight of my 2019 Levo Comp Carbon in medium: 21.7kg (with pedals, Minion DHF on the front, carbon bars, Ergon saddle, otherwise stock). so Rob’s XL, without pedals, is 700 grams more. must be close to a kg difference with pedals.

    surprised.

    caveat: bathroom scales!

  146. The biggest thing I’ve learned since this announcement is how many of you still use roof racks…. :LOL:
  147. nice bike and some very good engineering ideas, IP rated motor, waterproof plugs constant battery connection. All sounds like the problems we have been having have been addressed.
    Well it doesn’t make me very happy, while the spesh engineers have been beavering away on the sl it looks like all the levo and kenevo owners have been a bit "overlooked" what about fixing our crappy power cables, what about fixing our TCU’s that fill up with water if you sneeze on them, what about some quality control on the motors that have to get replaced, some guys have had up to five motor replacements in a bike thats not even a year old WTF!!
    between my wife and I we have spent around £30k on spesh ebikes, how about a bit of reengineering to fix our problems!!

    I agree, it seems likely that this motor, albeit in a more powerful form will find its way into the Levo/Kenevo. I know there is never a good time to buy technology but I agree that it feels like those of us who spent a lot of money on the Levo and Kenevo are now being left behind with improved technology and the development engineers working on new models.
    The best news about the SL is the better waterproofing of the motor and connections etc . It’s telling that Spec have improved the crank seals, a know problem with the Brose motors. I like the new bike but I would possibly be always be riding in Turbo! so not sure it’s the bike for me?

  148. I have been so close to pulling the trigger on a Levo Comp over the last month, glad I held off because I think the SL is right up my alley. I’m already an experienced rider with decent fitness but looking for a little help on the climbs and on longer rides.The only thing that worries me is being an early adopter of a 1st Gen bike. Will there be kinks that need worked out? Will the prices come down quickly? It’s just hard to say right now. The components on the comp models seem a little lacking for the price. I’m a light rider at only 5.7 ft and 135 lbs. I consider myself an intermediate level rider. I ride everything from handcut rocky and rooty xc trails, to smooth flow trails, to jumpy and rocky downhill trails. This would be my only bike. Current bike is an aluminum full suspension 27.5+ bike with 130mm of travel front and back(Pike fork). Rob (or anyone), think a comp sl would be a match for me? Would the fox 34 rythm hold me back at all? Lot of money for a bike! Thoughts?
  149. I have been so close to pulling the trigger on a Levo Comp over the last month, glad I held off because I think the SL is right up my alley. I’m already an experienced rider with decent fitness but looking for a little help on the climbs and on longer rides.The only thing that worries me is being an early adopter of a 1st Gen bike. Will there be kinks that need worked out? Will the prices come down quickly? It’s just hard to say right now. The components on the comp models seem a little lacking for the price. I’m a light rider at only 5.7 ft and 135 lbs. I consider myself an intermediate level rider. I ride everything from handcut rocky and rooty xc trails, to smooth flow trails, to jumpy and rocky downhill trails. This would be my only bike. Current bike is an aluminum full suspension 27.5+ bike with 130mm of travel front and back(Pike fork). Rob (or anyone), think a comp sl would be a match for me? Would the fox 34 rythm hold me back at all? Lot of money for a bike! Thoughts?

    I’m hoping we get about 30% of the bikes sold to early adopters, find out nothing breaks, then in 12 months when the specialized boffins shake their heads in frustration and try to dump remaining stock cheaply BUY.

    But I won’t complain if they sell out , all the other manufacturers get excited and focus goes back to their 2019 models

  150. I have been so close to pulling the trigger on a Levo Comp over the last month, glad I held off because I think the SL is right up my alley. I’m already an experienced rider with decent fitness but looking for a little help on the climbs and on longer rides.The only thing that worries me is being an early adopter of a 1st Gen bike. Will there be kinks that need worked out? Will the prices come down quickly? It’s just hard to say right now. The components on the comp models seem a little lacking for the price. I’m a light rider at only 5.7 ft and 135 lbs. I consider myself an intermediate level rider. I ride everything from handcut rocky and rooty xc trails, to smooth flow trails, to jumpy and rocky downhill trails. This would be my only bike. Current bike is an aluminum full suspension 27.5+ bike with 130mm of travel front and back(Pike fork). Rob (or anyone), think a comp sl would be a match for me? Would the fox 34 rythm hold me back at all? Lot of money for a bike! Thoughts?

    exactly my thoughts…having owned both a 18 and 19 levo….im worried about being a early adopter for the SL.

    Gen 1 levo was heavy as a pig, Gen 2 was much better…Gen 3 (2019-2020) is lightyears ahead, in terms of geo, battery, motor

  151. Bike looks wicked, great to see them push the boundaries and take things a step further.

    Not sure what Levo and Kenevo owners expected, surely most of you did your research and knew what you were buying at the time… We usually have to compromise with most things, the new SL is less powerful and has a noisier motor, and we still really have no idea how reliable it actually is.

    I have noticed that in the eBike world most of the talk is less about riding and more about the feeds and speeds of the ebikes, I’m probably as guilty as the next person. Having ridden a good few ebikes I now actually realise that it’s all about the riding, and having the latest/lightest/most powerful bike really adds very little to the experience. Albeit I do like shiny new stuff!

  152. Bike looks wicked, great to see them push the boundaries and take things a step further.

    Not sure what Levo and Kenevo owners expected, surely most of you did your research and knew what you were buying at the time… We usually have to compromise with most things, the new SL is less powerful and has a noisier motor, and we still really have no idea how reliable it actually is.

    I have noticed that in the eBike world most of the talk is less about riding and more about the feeds and speeds of the ebikes, I’m probably as guilty as the next person. Having ridden a good few ebikes I now actually realise that it’s all about the riding, and having the latest/lightest/most powerful bike really adds very little to the experience. Albeit I do like shiny new stuff!

    All about the riding I agree with and the Levo is great but after three motors in just over a year, the focus does drift back to the wether these bikes were ever ‘fit for purpose ‘ especially in the UK conditions. Yes we knew what we were buying but they are not cheap and although Specialised do have an excellent warranty you flipping well need it! The ‘new’ battery and motor setup on the SL seems to go a long way in addressing some of the issues though.
    I think the next Levo/Kenevo or even something completely different will be amazing, sadly I won’t be able to buy it, as my bike has just lost another £1000! That’s technology for you, never a good time to buy😂just go out and enjoy it while it works👍

  153. All about the riding I agree with and the Levo is great but after four motors in a year, the focus does drift back to the wether these bikes were ever ‘fit for purpose ‘ especially in the UK conditions. Yes we knew what we were buying but they are not cheap and although Specialised do have an excellent warranty you flipping well need it! The ‘new’ battery and motor setup on the SL seems to go a long way in addressing some of the issues though.
    I think the next Levo/Kenevo or even something completely different will be amazing, sadly I won’t be able to buy it, as my bike has just lost another £1000! That’s technology for you, never a good time to buy😂just go out and enjoy it while it works👍

    Fair enough, I can see why you feel a little put out at the very least. I didn’t go the Levo route for that reason, but now I’ve said that my e8000 is bound to pack up on the next ride 😅

  154. This I need to find out. E8000 ala rest I couldn’t live with. Please don’t be need that noisy! The brose is perfect at noise levels. Not too intrusive

    I have had 3 E8000 motors now (counting my wifes) and will say that after a couple of hundred K’s they get quieter. This would be expected as the gears run in and smooth off. After 1000k my current E8000 is as quiet if not quieter than the Brose motor I tested in a Kenevo.

  155. I have had 3 E8000 motors now (counting my wifes) and will say that after a couple of hundred K’s they get quieter. This would be expected as the gears run in and smooth off. After 1000k my current E8000 is as quiet if not quieter than the Brose motor I tested in a Kenevo.

    Gary’s are normally very quiet after 1000km – he breaks them way before that… 😉😂

  156. With Specialized pushing the virtues of the SL being lighter than the full fat version it’s curious to see them use a heavier AXS dropper rather than a Reverb on the Sworks model. If the answer is they are pushing the SRAM AXS technology I’d understand it, but the bikes we saw at Specialized HQ today all had traditional wired SRAM XX1 Eagle groupsets.
  157. With Specialized pushing the virtues of the SL being lighter than the full fat version it’s curious to see them use a heavier AXS dropper rather than a Reverb on the Sworks model. If the answer is they are pushing the SRAM AXS technology I’d understand it, but the bikes we saw at Specialized HQ today all had traditional wired SRAM XX1 Eagle groupsets.

    You’ve got to get the Founder’s Edition to get the AXS groupset. The s-works is wired.

  158. Im pretty sure this motor can take more power.

    Wont be this gen obviously

    But the e-future is lighter powerfull and brighter …

  159. I’ll keep my regular levo until they release the next model that has 50-60nm (or more) in an SL motor size package.
    I certainly don’t care about weight after adding a coil shock, fox 36, dh casing tires and heavier duty breaks :)
    Sure is fun hitting turbo and just doing ridiculous things.
  160. It does seem like Specilized have somehow turned a couple of KG saving, though a smaller battery, motor and noodle forks, into a technological revolution. The power of marketing?

    19Kg? Is that without the extender too? How much does that weigh ?

  161. extender weighs about a kg I think.

    my take – if you’re going to habitually run the extender, perhaps the SL is not the right bike, go for the Levo.

  162. extender weighs about a kg I think.

    my take – if you’re going to habitually run the extender, perhaps the SL is not the right bike, go for the Levo.

    I know, my Levo S-Works weighs 20.9Kg so not a huge weight saving when compared to a mid priced SL, I would still love to try one though just to compare and of course any weight saving would be welcome especially when lifting the bike over gates and into the back of my car!

  163. yeah me too.

    my Levo is 21.7kg – I’d look for that 4kg saving on the basis of rarely using the extender.

  164. People need to compare apples with apples.
    You can’t compare the weight of an S-Works Levo with a Comp SL. There’s £5k difference between them!
    Same with a Levo Comp that has had loads of weight saving v’s a stock bike.

    Levo S-Works stock is about 20.8kg if I remember correctly?
    Levo SL S-Works is 16.9kg. Almost 4kg.

    Weight is not the be all and end all… however after riding a 17.7kg Levo SL yesterday after riding my 22kg Trek Rail, I can tell you that it makes a big difference!!

  165. Has it dawned on anyone that some people might just want a lighter bike and are happy to pay for the new tech that comes along with it.
    4kgs is a massive difference and those that think it isn’t obviously don’t know shit from chocolate.
    Ride the bike first, do yourself a favour and give an honest opinion. All bikes have their purpose and those who they work for and those they don’t. At least Specialized are now giving many different people many different options.
    I think that’s a great thing both for us and for competition/innovation.
  166. People need to compare apples with apples.
    You can’t compare the weight of an S-Works Levo with a Comp SL. There’s £5k difference between them!
    Same with a Levo Comp that has had loads of weight saving v’s a stock bike.

    Levo S-Works stock is about 20.8kg if I remember correctly?
    Levo SL S-Works is 16.9kg. Almost 4kg.

    Weight is not the be all and end all… however after riding a 17.7kg Levo SL yesterday after riding my 22kg Trek Rail, I can tell you that it makes a big difference!!

    Your right and so many people, including myself passing comment without actually having tried one!! One day hopefully as it looks a great bike to go out and play or train on, not sure about the big club rides though? I would need to get much fitter and stronger, maybe this bike would help me to achieve this?

  167. Looked to my (by eye) the SL has a little more BB clearance than the Levo. Relevant to me as I bash my Levo BB area a lot.

    Can anyone confirm? (@Rob Hancill)?

    Thx.

    (note to self – learn to jump not roll!).

  168. Looked to my (by eye) the SL has a little more BB clearance than the Levo. Relevant to me as I bash my Levo BB area a lot.

    Can anyone confirm? (@Rob Hancill)?

    Thx.

    (note to self – learn to jump not roll!).

    SL has a BB of 348 FF Levo has 347.5 .. so half a mm there ..

    But if you look at the images, the SL has a 30 tooth 94bcd ring and the FF has a 32 tooth 104 bcd ring.

    The FF you can up to a 36T and it’s still protected by the battery guard.

    The SL looks like the 30T is already at the guards limit.

    So yes, you must be gaining 20mm ?? or so.

  169. So a bike with less power and less range is lighter ?, in other news the Pope is catholic.
    I’m sure it rides great in fact I’m positive it does but that’s because lighter bikes do despite a few years of folk telling us a heavier ebike rides the same as a lighter bike. As with anything Specialized though it’s all hype and the fan bois are out in force. It’s strange when I rejected mine at 4 weeks old the dealer was perplexed. He said not too worry they’ll keep fixing it as if that was good enough service and mattered more than building a reliable bike in the first place. Completely ignoring the time out to take the bike in each time and the need to have one as a spare. But with such a big marketing budget and the willingness of folk to accept the product it doesn’t matter what I think.
    SL though nice bike and concept 😀
  170. SL has a BB of 348 FF Levo has 347.5 .. so half a mm there ..

    But if you look at the images, the SL has a 30 tooth 94bcd ring and the FF has a 32 tooth 104 bcd ring.

    The FF you can up to a 36T and it’s still protected by the battery guard.

    The SL looks like the 30T is already at the guards limit.

    So yes, you must be gaining 20mm ?? or so.

    20mm is a big win.

    30T isn’t.

    maybe explains why they have dinner plate rear cassette.

  171. Has it dawned on anyone that some people might just want a lighter bike and are happy to pay for the new tech that comes along with it.
    4kgs is a massive difference and those that think it isn’t obviously don’t know shit from chocolate.
    Ride the bike first, do yourself a favour and give an honest opinion. All bikes have their purpose and those who they work for and those they don’t. At least Specialized are now giving many different people many different options.
    I think that’s a great thing both for us and for competition/innovation.

    I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

    Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.

  172. At the function yesterday there seemed to be SL’s everywhere, I would hate to think how many have been distributed around the UK and how many Spesh has in built up form, ready for Demo rides. One thing for sure there’s going to be a huge number at discounted prices in a years time that are ex demo bikes. The cost to Specialized must be in order of zillions if that’s multiplied around the world.

    First thoughts was that " what a pretty little bike ", really really looks right and against the normal Levo, looked a much more mature design and more like a mtb bike we are accustomed to. This next generation of Ebikes is going to be getting away from the ugly zone in aesthetics. From lots of design projects I know of, the old adage, if it looks right, it will normally be right. sort of looks the case here.

    But where does it really fit in. I log my motor power input from my Ebike and average that 300 – 350 W over a ride ( obviously not downhill :) ), never really much more than that, sometimes we push 600W’s in fun uphill romps ( and the factory bikes are still faster on full power, mmmm read the spec on the 250W limit thingee, its not an actual limit but a motor able to output reliably only 250W’s ). I ride with non Ebikers and find that the motor needs about 30 – 40 W of energy just to over come the mechanical s of the gears and motor windings + the extra weight of the bike. To then be of any consequence to your riding, we need at least another 100 or so to be able to really feel much input, at the 150 W input, you know you have an Ebike and the fun begins.

    So for Spesh to be saying that the 240W’s of the SL is able to keep up with a Levo in Trail mode, it has to be pushing out way more than the 240W being quoted. Looking at the cutway engines of the Brose and the Spesh unit, we were surprised at just how beefy the motor windings and the overall height of the Stator, which were not unsimilar to the Brose’s size, is saying hey this motor is capable of putting out way more than 240W’s. Yes its much smaller in overall weight and size, but you only have to look at just how compact the internals are compared to the Brose, to say this is just better engineering giving the compactness, but the telling dimension is that the overall height of the motor itself is not much smaller than the Brose’s.

    In say a comparison to the motor diameter we run, its a bit bigger ( we can punch out 800W’s fairly comfortably ) but remember a larger diameter will give a greater and more flatter torque curve, for us Ebiker’s that’s a real plus and overall height is just one parameter of motor power. If we then throw in the straight cut gears ( hence the louder noise ) of all alloy in a pretty chunky size, good size plastic counter gears, quite large bearing shafts, this motor in my opinion will chuck out a lot more than advertised ( remember though the manufacturers want reliability and low heat so they throttle the engines output back by limiting the windings total power input by software ) and with the FOC advances the current technology is evolving toward, this is going to be one pretty cool little motor.

    So what am I saying, this new motor is a bit of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I foresee a real possibility of this motor going down the TSDZ2 route of Free Ware that just transforms the output, someone will almost certainly reverse engineer the software and be offering an upgrade that will bring it into that 500W ( if its not already there, but being throttled back by software to fit the niche of that gap between Levo and analogue bikes ) and dare I say it, once the motor has been proved reliable for a couple of years, a 52volt version will be magicked into the next Levo and Kinevo design.

    The other thing which fascinated me was answer given by Spesh that the actual battery size is being limited by the size of the Small frame. Bollocks the front down tube is of a size and length that you could get a 500WH battery in there no problem. This 300W internal battery is just to make sure that the bike sets its own market niche.

    I have to say though, if you could buy a software upgrade to the motor to say 500W, a larger 500WH internal battery, what a winner you would have and you would blow virtually every other EBike manufacturer out of the market for a year or two until they catch up, but it would kill off immediately the Levo as we know it.

  173. I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

    Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.

    It’s genius really ..

    If it was a car .. there would be the 1.2 litre 4 cylinder version and then a year later the 2.0 turbo or 5.0 V8 version, which would be a bit heavier but with twice the power – for more money ..

    Here we have the 2.0 turbo/5.0 V8 version first .. and then they bring out the amazing 1.2 low power, small fuel tank version as being the must have thing .. so it’s going to be more expensive.

    Amazing .. and I’m so dumb I’d like one too :)

  174. Do you not think though, having had the taste buds of the V8 we are just not going to now go back to the model T power zone.
  175. Has anyone put a set of 29 2.3 tyres on their Levo FF and gone for a ride?

    Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
    Why do you ask?

  176. Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
    Why do you ask?

    I’m guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3’s might feel as nimble as an SL ?

    I’m slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

    As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it’s starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob’s hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???

  177. I’m guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3’s might feel as nimble as an SL ?

    I’m slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

    As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it’s starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob’s hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???

    I literally had a car park demo (which is enough for most to buy!!) Felt super responsive, light and like a fighter aircraft instead of an airliner..

    I can’t comment on 2.3’s against a Levo first hand all I will say is think of the weight saving (4kg) as the difference between having 2 x 2 litre bottles of coke strapped to the bike disappearing..it has a profound affect on the handling and feel of the bike.

  178. Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
    Why do you ask?

    I’m guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3’s might feel as nimble as an SL ?

    I’m slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

    As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it’s starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob’s hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???

    No it doesn’t. The tyres are not the defining factor here. 1. Weight. 2. Rear end.

  179. To further emphasis how incredible this new bike is in an engineering sense I’ll give you this pearler.

    My new 2020 "analogue" bike build, it’s for shuttles/park riding pretty much but she will be pedalled every now and then.

    17.6kg of unassisted land whale. I almost cried when I put it on the scale, for the big "S" to build an ebike this light, it put’s things into perspective.

    (please note, this is coil front and rear suspension, Cushcore front and rear, Steel spring and EXO+ Casing tyres)

    View attachment 25758

    View attachment 25759

  180. I literally had a car park demo (which is enough for most to buy!!) Felt super responsive, light and like a fighter aircraft instead of an airliner..

    I can’t comment on 2.3’s against a Levo first hand all I will say is think of the weight saving (4kg) as the difference between having 2 x 2 litre bottles of coke strapped to the bike disappearing..it has a profound affect on the handling and feel of the bike.

    There’s quite a few ebikes out there that are another 2kg on top of that too. Another 2 litre bottle.

  181. I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

    Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.

    Well of course they do, what kind of a business would they be if they didn’t create hype. It’s up to us to be able to tell the shit from the chocolate. Research the hell out of it and work out if it’s for you or not.
    So much negativity on here. It’s just sad people can’t just be happy that such a bike exists.
    I’ve been dying to use this one and I feel it’s describes how I feel best

    View attachment 25761

  182. Specialized seem to be similar to Apple in that they make very good but overpriced products but still sell shit loads of them. Both have excellent marketing departments.

    Although I will add that things are only worth what someone is willing to pay…

  183. They could make this bike for half that price for 10% more weight.

    Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make. The rest of the bike is just standard bike parts.

  184. They could make this bike for half that price for 10% more weight.

    Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make. The rest of the bike is just standard bike parts.

    And how do they pay for development costs? Software, hardware, testing, etc?

    And do you have any real figures to back up your assertions? Small often means more expensive not less. It’s not a lump of metal you know.

  185. People will vote with their wallets. A Tesla has far fewer moving parts than an ICE car but shed loads of development and fewer economies of scale. It’s always what someone is willing to pay, and people love their Tesla’s. People also bloody love their Levo’s, myself included.

    Of course, there is Specialized tax, but there’s also Santa Cruz and Yeti tax..It’s expensive but if you want the lightest newest bike out there, get your card out else wait a year or so! Will I be running to buy one..No..I love full fat but fully appreciate the option and once I’ve had a decent ride of it maybe change my mind, but I doubt it..If I was buying again now it might be a different story.

    The Founder’s edition will sell out. Apparently one chap in Switzerland bought 10 Creo Founders Editions just to have in his garage for when friends came over as a talking point…Just like expensive art..

  186. What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It’s all made in china.

    This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp. That has the most advanced lithium and motor tech in the world right now. It seats 4 people does 155mph and 0 to 62 in 3 seconds flat.

    Let that sink in.

    Exactly, I could call China right now and have a thousand of these built by the end of the week for next to nothing.

  187. Is something stopping you?[/QUOTE]
    Well yes, I couldn’t find the number for China’s fabled e bike factory that designs, tests, and builds specialized bikes for them so specialized can turn around and make 100% profit on poor suckers like me. Also, I was being sarcastic 😉.
  188. Well of course they do, what kind of a business would they be if they didn’t create hype. It’s up to us to be able to tell the shit from the chocolate. Research the hell out of it and work out if it’s for you or not.
    So much negativity on here. It’s just sad people can’t just be happy that such a bike exists.
    I’ve been dying to use this one and I feel it’s describes how I feel best

    View attachment 25761

    How many times have you confused shit with chocolate..? 😬

    I’ve said it looks like a great bike… Cleary not enough for some fanboys 😜

  189. What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It’s all made in china.

    This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp.

    You have a slight point with the Tesla comparison (though you’re dreaming if you think a base model 3 is that quick). However your first comment is woefully naive.

  190. How many times have you confused shit with chocolate..? 😬

    Haha, very rarely mate but I spend a lot of time researching things. I like to make informed decisions rather than just jump on the bandwagon as most do. I also have a very positive outlook to life and try not focus on the negatives.
    I ride with many different ebikes and I see no labels just happy faces. That’s what’s important to me.

  191. The base model can be unlocked via software to ludacris mode. Hardware is no different.

    I think we are all guilty of selling to ourselves that these prices are justified somehow. At best 3 components of that bike are not off the shelf. The frame, The motor and the battery.

    The motor is just a different form factor. It doesnt contain anything new. It’s not the same power and half the size. Even if it was 50% more expensive it would not justify the price.

    The battery is still made up from AA looking cells made in some factory by the billion. Instead of 30 it might have 20 held in a plastic box with a power management microchip that is no different than anyone elses. Those same cells run my lawn mower at 7.5ah in 56v for 420wh. Costs £240 rrp.

    The rest of the bike is from the parts bin just like the rest of the range.

    This bike is the holy grail for specialized. Not only does it convince everyone that less is more in terms of performance it also means less cost to manufacture and more profit with higher rrp.

    It would be cheaper and more effective to go on a diet.

    I’m not going to answer every point but the quick Teslas have two motors. Their batteries are ‘just‘ Panasonic and LG Chem – and importantly volumes are in a completely different league to ebikes. I would also counter that Tesla charge Audi prices for cheap Chrysler-level built cars ;)

    However despite you over blowing the points you make I don’t necessarily disagree with your more general point and I’m certainly not a Specialized cheerleader.

    What you miss though is that there are plenty of people around who are willing to pay a premium for what they perceive to be a nicely designed, packaged, presented, integrated, conceptualised and supported product. There are trillion dollar companies out there based on this premise after all.

  192. Point taken.

    These are very expensive toys for sure. However, surely value is not solely monetary? The S-Works is definitely worth more as a bike you can ride up hill and down dale for many incredible rides and experiences – a new model hadn’t changed that.

    We all get wrapped up in feeds and speeds but these are just tools, they are not the goal. Riding is that goal.

  193. Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
    Why do you ask?

    Yes, trying to gauge the tyre effect… I know transitioning between 6Fatty Stumpy and 29×2.3 Camber tyres were noticeabe. I no longer have anything to compare to as the Levo replaced all my bikes.

  194. Has anyone put a set of 29 2.3 tyres on their Levo FF and gone for a ride?

    I ride my Levo with Michelin Wild Enduro tires in 2.4, they are smaller than the Specialized in 2.3. Works very well much more agile. But when it comes the pure agility you need the lighter frame from the SL.

  195. @Spesh – if you’re reading:

    I’m a trail rider and I’ve a 6 month old Levo. It’s great fun to ride, my only criticism is it’s a bit of a tank.

    I reckon an SL would be right up my street. I could roll my Levo and my bio trail bike into one. I don’t need a winch, am happy to pedal. And I almost never flatten the 500Wh battery.

    What’s stopping me taking the plunge? It’s a combination of the hefty price ticket (I can afford it on paper, but it’s still a big number!) with the relatively short warranty on the e parts.

    2 years passes very very fast. Resale value then is a huge unknown, on a bike I may be spending seven and a half big ones on. it just doesn’t add up.

    I’d think about some sort of extended warranty option (see Apple’s AppleCare) or, as was suggested at the event, some kind of trade in/approved used scheme. Would probably go a long way to snagging more customers like me and keeping us in the fold.

    Hope that helps, for now I think I’m gonna sit SL out, and keep my eyes out for alternatives in this format. So you may loose me.

    All you new SL owners: I’m a tad envious and wish you years of happy riding!

    ps I moved this post here from another thread for better context.

  196. I’d think about some sort of extended warranty option (see Apple’s AppleCare) or, as was suggested at the event, some kind of trade in/approved used scheme. Would probably go a long way to snagging more customers like me and keeping us in the fold.

    +1 for this

  197. Sadly their whole business model is planned obsolescence. A 5 year old enduro works as well as the day you bought it. A 5 year old ebike has much less chance of being functional.

    I fully expect to one day being in small claims court against a dealer or manufacturer arguing that it was never built to last a reasonable time.

    They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.

  198. They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.

    Find me a market where that isn’t the case? Everywhere batteries are a consumable. We are lucky with the warranty they give.

    I think the bigger thing is Specialized battery prices are insanity. The cost to produce a battery to that spec is £100 + controller costs. I’d really like to see battery costs drop to about £300-400 and then I’m be mega happy.

    I know i’ll be making my own when mine dies as I have the means and knowledge to do so – I’ve made ebike packs before for not so legal bikes that pull alot more amps.

  199. Sadly their whole business model is planned obsolescence. A 5 year old enduro works as well as the day you bought it. A 5 year old ebike has much less chance of being functional.

    I fully expect to one day being in small claims court against a dealer or manufacturer arguing that it was never built to last a reasonable time.

    They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.

    Yes and no…
    The price of a regular bike seems to drop through the floor after you’ve owned it for a couple of years. I’d probably be lucky to get £2000 for my mint 2017 Stumpjumper Expert with almost £3000 upgrades on it (overall cost ~£7000). I’d have to find the right buyer who was specifically looking for that model / components.

    A £7500 eMTB with a knackered motor or battery is only potentially £1000 (guess on the cost of a motor) away from being a fully functioning bike. In 3 years time, that Specialized motor will probably be on it’s 3rd version, and the Gen1 will be available at a lower cost.

    You could argue the same about your phone. You pay £1200 for a new iPhone on launch day. In 3 years time, Mazuma will probably give you £300 for it!

  200. It’s sad to see this thread evolve from one that started out discussing interesting features of a new bicycle to one dominated by tedious and repetitive complaining about prices, business models, marketing, resale value, etc.

    Rather than hijacking this thread why not start another thread entitled –

    “Whinefest – My First World Problems with E-bikes and the E-bike Industry”

  201. I have some more ride observations but first.
    A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.
    -Secondly people are focusing a lot on weight as an abstract number. I think spec has been able to focus the weight much lower in the bike. With the tightening up of the geometry and chain stays this feels nothing like the original levo. The levo feels like a DH bike to me now (especially with the coil shock I added), but that’s what I want when I ride it, a shuttle bike. The nimbleness of this bike cannot be understated.
    -Finally I’m glad the range extender was delayed I got to ride the bike without it and am impressed with the range. If I had to guess I think the 320 wh offers what you’d get from maybe a 440wh battery on the levo if it existed. But since you can turn the SL off on the flats and not feel bogged down there are so many ways you can extend your range if you are on a long adventure.
  202. I have some more ride observations but first.
    A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.

    Which crank set did you get? I’m just away to go to the store and ask to exchange my Trek Rail. The reality is that the store are going to make me use up the value of the Rail – so I’m going to have to buy some upgrades. The cranks were one thing on my list!

  203. I agree. I also think the Tesla is a ripoff in it’s own right. This was kind of also my point.

    I’d argue I was one of those people who were willing to pay for specialized package and I did many times. Looking at the resale values now though and current pricing I’m at a loss as to what they justify it with. Looking back I should have just kept my alu stumpjumper. Moving to an ebike is going to sting the pocket. But I just hate riding up hills.

    The best thing I could do with my s works right now is drive over it with the car. It’s worth far more as an insured wreck than it is on ebay.

    A friend of mine only managed to sell his year old S works Levo for £4200.
    That’s a loss of £5800 for 1 years riding.
    Say he did 100 rides, that’s £58 per ride, not including tyres,brakes etc 😱

  204. It’s sad to see this thread evolve from one that started out discussing interesting features of a new bicycle to one dominated by tedious and repetitive complaining about prices, business models, marketing, resale value, etc.

    Rather than hijacking this thread why not start another thread entitled –

    “Whinefest – My First World Problems with E-bikes and the E-bike Industry”

    it’s not a hijack, most of us love the idea of the bike. it’s OK to talk about why we may not buy one. might help someone eh?

  205. Which crank set did you get? I’m just away to go to the store and ask to exchange my Trek Rail. The reality is that the store are going to make me use up the value of the Rail – so I’m going to have to buy some upgrades. The cranks were one thing on my list!

    I just got the praxis carbon that come on the sworks since I didn’t want to spend a bunch of time figuring out compatibility. I’m skeptical of the savings but looking at the weights online it seems right. Almost like the Al are intentionally heavy.

  206. … The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks…

    Not sure where you’re getting your numbers. The allow crank arms do not even weight 1.5 lb total!

    Praxis lists the alloy crank arms at 485g (1.07 lb.) and the carbon crank arms at 375g.
    Thats a 110g difference (about a Big Mac quarter pounder ;)).

  207. I’ve lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I’m now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.
  208. I’ve lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I’m now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.

    That’s like saying ‘I don’t need this sledgehammer, I’m a big fella so this toffee hammer will do’. 😁

    I think if you could stand to lose 6kg and be healthy then you’re probably big enough to throw a heavier bike around. Again, generalising doesn’t work here either.

  209. I’ve lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I’m now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.

    That’s like saying ‘I don’t need this sledgehammer, I’m a big fella so this toffee hammer will do’. [emoji16]

    I think if you could stand to lose 6kg and be healthy then you’re probably big enough to throw a heavier bike around. Again, generalising doesn’t work here either.

    Yeh lol.

    I did notice that getting up those hills was much easier though when closer to 70kg than 80kg.

  210. Exciting times… Looks a great bike, but Im hoping in 2 to 3 years there will be a new wave of full power ebikes with smaller batteries, motors and pretty looks at 40ish pounds…
  211. I have some more ride observations but first.
    A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.
    -Secondly people are focusing a lot on weight as an abstract number. I think spec has been able to focus the weight much lower in the bike. With the tightening up of the geometry and chain stays this feels nothing like the original levo. The levo feels like a DH bike to me now (especially with the coil shock I added), but that’s what I want when I ride it, a shuttle bike. The nimbleness of this bike cannot be understated.
    -Finally I’m glad the range extender was delayed I got to ride the bike without it and am impressed with the range. If I had to guess I think the 320 wh offers what you’d get from maybe a 440wh battery on the levo if it existed. But since you can turn the SL off on the flats and not feel bogged down there are so many ways you can extend your range if you are on a long adventure.

    or battery out and ride with the 160wh and a spare in the backpack!

  212. I’ve lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I’m now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.

    I was thinking and hoping the same but it’s the bike you have to lift over walls and gates sadly!
    With Spec probably introducing more bikes into their range its hard to know when to change? if indeed you can afford to now your current bike is worth so much less…..

  213. As ever its easy to forget reading this thread that brands other than Specilized make EMTB’s. Its also quite eye opening that not many people have referenced whether the basic geometry of the bike is right for them either – the motor is irrelevant if the bike dont fit, and all the reviews I have seen have pointed out that for anyone over 6ft the geo is pretty conservative.

    If you where looking at a new acoustic/analog whatever people are calling normal bikes theses days then the geometry on it is behind the curve (not necessarily a good or bad thing) but I bet a lot of us wouldn’t have it on a short list due to this.

    If you dont want to pay silly money for a lightweight emtb, there are plenty of options out there – are that as good as the Levo SL? Well that’s subjective, but its not like the SL has just created some new market sector, what its really done is probably bought the biggest soundsystem to the party so to speak :cool:

    What the bike does is point to a bright future that we haven’t got to yet, but are getting close to touching distance of, in terms of your standard EMTB getting to 19ish KG as the norm rather than the exception.

    My personal view, is that we were not actually that far away from that anyway, but the move to internal batteries and trying to make EMTB’s look like normal bikes has resulted in a lot of the newer bikes actually being heavier than their predecessors. Aesthetics are a key driver in the market, and it certainly seems to me that the latest bikes have been as much driven by that as actually making better bikes.

  214. Not sure where you’re getting your numbers. The allow crank arms do not even weight 1.5 lb total!

    Praxis lists the alloy crank arms at 485g (1.07 lb.) and the carbon crank arms at 375g.
    Thats a 110g difference (about a Big Mac quarter pounder ;)).

    hmm this is odd. Yeah that didn’t seem to make a bunch of sense to me either. I wonder if 1 was with the spindle and 1 without.

  215. Battery tech has barely moved in decades. Emtb are not going to change that any time soon.

    The laws of thermal dynamics are not going anywhere for now. Until batteries can store more energy in a smaller form factor then the only way you get a lighter bike is by having less power or range. The motors are already working at high efficiency.

    This same problem has held back electric cars and they dont have the weight issue as bad as bikes.

  216. As ever its easy to forget reading this thread that brands other than Specilized make EMTB’s. Its also quite eye opening that not many people have referenced whether the basic geometry of the bike is right for them either – the motor is irrelevant if the bike dont fit, and all the reviews I have seen have pointed out that for anyone over 6ft the geo is pretty conservative.

    172 cm (5-8) my M Levo is the best fitting bike I ever had and the geometry is spot on for the trails I ride. I could only improve it by making it lighter and shortening the chainstays..

    Oh.

  217. As ever its easy to forget reading this thread that brands other than Specilized make EMTB’s. Its also quite eye opening that not many people have referenced whether the basic geometry of the bike is right for them either – the motor is irrelevant if the bike dont fit, and all the reviews I have seen have pointed out that for anyone over 6ft the geo is pretty conservative.

    had the demo bike out today for a couple of rides today. Comparing it to my current Orbea I’d like the levo to have slightly slacker (than 66) HA for what I ride pointing downwards. I feel the geometry is more suited trail/xc rather than what i prefer to do. I could add 160 forks but, warranty and all that.

    And the carbon demo creaked and groaned all day, what all that about :confused: My alloy frame is much quieter

  218. had the demo bike out today for a couple of rides today. Comparing it to my current Orbea I’d like the levo to have slightly slacker (than 66) HA for what I ride pointing downwards. I feel the geometry is more suited trail/xc rather than what i prefer to do. I could add 160 forks but, warranty and all that.

    And the carbon demo creaked and groaned all day, what all that about :confused: My alloy frame is much quieter

    I’ve heard a few say to put a 2.6 on the front so I guess that the slacker HA is quite common.

  219. 172 cm (5-8) my M Levo is the best fitting bike I ever had and the geometry is spot on for the trails I ride. I could only improve it by making it lighter and shortening the chainstays..

    Oh.

    Well that’s great for you, my point was people shouldn’t buy this bike just because its lighter than a regular EMTB if the geometry is not right for them or how they ride.

    For my local riding its also spot on, but the non removable battery makes it an unpractical purchase for me, and I really dont need another bike!

  220. @Rob Hancill
    why the Levo SL is the better low wight emtb?
    zasty 63Nm esystem 3kg – Levo Sl only 35Nm esystem 2.9kg ?

    i am between the two bikes to buy..

    If you can test them both that will be your best answer.

    The Fazua looks amazing on paper. Specifications wise and concept wise.

    I think it doesn’t convert as well into real world riding though (only from what I’ve read/seen).

    The SL is rated a lower torque, but much more consistent in power delivery both on paper and from what people have said. The Fazua should be similar in power to an e7000 but anyone who seems to have ridden it finds it disappointing. Maybe that’s because they promote it as similar, where as the SL is promoted as half as much so you expect less.

  221. The SL 1.1 motor has been used in the Creo which has been out in the field for several months now. What do we know of it’s reliability at this point? Any known issues or users reporting high failure rates?
  222. Pretty irrelevant I’d say; there are Bosch Perf CX motors out there in commuter bikes that have done well over 10000Km but in an eMTB they don’t last anything like as long. The user and the usage is so different as to make any comparison between a road bike and an eMTB worthless.
  223. Sure road and mountain are different but at the end of the day the motor is performing the same thing in each application, providing pedal assist. Not looking for a performance comparison between the two applications just asking if there has been any general issues with the SL 1.1 motor in the Creo. Excess noise, complete failure, etc.
  224. Sure road and mountain are different but at the end of the day the motor is performing the same thing in each application, providing pedal assist. Not looking for a performance comparison between the two applications just asking if there has been any general issues with the SL 1.1 motor in the Creo. Excess noise, complete failure, etc.

    Environment they operate in is very different, and unless you’re just riding fireroads the stress on the motor is very different

  225. The SL 1.1 motor has been used in the Creo which has been out in the field for several months now. What do we know of it’s reliability at this point? Any known issues or users reporting high failure rates?

    That’s a good question you might have to lurk on creo forums to find out

  226. I hate to be a downer, Especially anything EMTB related. I think we can all agree this bike is a really good step in the right direction. But I strongly believe Specialized shot them selves in the foot with the price of the line up here… the current Price for a US purchases SL goes from $6,525-$13,525 before tax, in my honest opinion coming from a bicycle shop owner that sees the rates on many bikes both at cost and retail, given the spec, all of the parts, and thought to designing the motor and integration the new Levo SL should max out around $7,800USD for a true S-Works model (full carbon, full factory) I know the current Levo expert (non SL) is even more than this but I also know it’s the sole reason none of my friends have any specialized Emtb’s (I haven’t even mentioned the founders because it’s outright extortion for a title). It’s neat they got a nice torque sensing motor with a really low power requirement to fit inside of a still proprietary frame. however let’s be clear here, it’s not going to be long before others do the same at half the cost. The idea of the SL isn’t like they reinvented the wheel, they just cut everything in half and polished it, followed by an extreme surcharge likely due to it being the only real option in this type of class. I hope those on the fence can hold off until the competition can show it’s not rocket science, but instead normal engineering. Again i’m not trying to bag on them. I love my 19 Levo expert, but i’m sure i’ll still be the only one around my town with one for quite some time…
  227. I hate to be a downer, Especially anything EMTB related. I think we can all agree this bike is a really good step in the right direction. But I strongly believe Specialized shot them selves in the foot with the price of the line up here… the current Price for a US purchases SL goes from $6,525-$13,525 before tax, in my honest opinion coming from a bicycle shop owner that sees the rates on many bikes both at cost and retail, given the spec, all of the parts, and thought to designing the motor and integration the new Levo SL should max out around $7,800USD for a true S-Works model (full carbon, full factory) I know the current Levo expert (non SL) is even more than this but I also know it’s the sole reason none of my friends have any specialized Emtb’s (I haven’t even mentioned the founders because it’s outright extortion for a title). It’s neat they got a nice torque sensing motor with a really low power requirement to fit inside of a still proprietary frame. however let’s be clear here, it’s not going to be long before others do the same at half the cost. The idea of the SL isn’t like they reinvented the wheel, they just cut everything in half and polished it, followed by an extreme surcharge likely due to it being the only real option in this type of class. I hope those on the fence can hold off until the competition can show it’s not rocket science, but instead normal engineering. Again i’m not trying to bag on them. I love my 19 Levo expert, but i’m sure i’ll still be the only one around my town with one for quite some time…

    It’s a bit like the "emperors new clothes" .. for levo owners .. :)

    I still want one .. I don’t know why … It’s like some kind of weird inverse sexual inadequacy syndrome ..

    But for now, it’s only the Fantasy Bike garage version of the VIP Founders edition (with custom paint for an extra €2k)

  228. The problem the opposition will face is finding a motor. The Mahle/Spesh motor won’t be available to them and the Fazua just doesn’t seem to cut the mustard for some reason.

    It’ll be down to how long Brose/Bosch/Shimano/Yamaha take to develop an equivalent motor. As the Fazua didn’t set the world on fire they might not be in too much of a rush in case the SL doesn’t pan out either.

  229. The problem the opposition will face is finding a motor. The Mahle/Spesh motor won’t be available to them and the Fazua just doesn’t seem to cut the mustard for some reason.

    It’ll be down to how long Brose/Bosch/Shimano/Yamaha take to develop an equivalent motor. As the Fazua didn’t set the world on fire they might not be in too much of a rush in case the SL doesn’t pan out either.

    I bet it’s not that hard. The same maker could do a different version of that same motor and then it would be different. You could also just take a normal motor and cut its power in half and you almost have the same thing. Give or take 500 grams

  230. Have you actually seen the inside of any of these motors? Cutting the power wouldn’t save a single gram. You’d have to design a completely new motor which takes time and many hundreds of thousands of Dollars.
  231. Have you actually seen the inside of any of these motors? Cutting the power wouldn’t save a single gram. You’d have to design a completely new motor which takes time and many hundreds of thousands of Dollars.

    A smaller battery on the normal sized motor with half the power would yield a big weight saving. A smaller motor saves limited weight.

  232. The problem the opposition will face is finding a motor. The Mahle/Spesh motor won’t be available to them and the Fazua just doesn’t seem to cut the mustard for some reason.

    It’ll be down to how long Brose/Bosch/Shimano/Yamaha take to develop an equivalent motor. As the Fazua didn’t set the world on fire they might not be in too much of a rush in case the SL doesn’t pan out either.

    Yes that seems logical although there many new drives being developed or in production. Like the Kervelo Quartz 12 (70 Nm & 4.0 kg), the Comp C-18 (80 Nm & 3.0 kg) and the Comp C-19 (60 Nm & 2.6 kg). Many others that may or may not make it to production.

  233. The problem the opposition will face is finding a motor. The Mahle/Spesh motor won’t be available to them and the Fazua just doesn’t seem to cut the mustard for some reason.

    It’ll be down to how long Brose/Bosch/Shimano/Yamaha take to develop an equivalent motor. As the Fazua didn’t set the world on fire they might not be in too much of a rush in case the SL doesn’t pan out either.

    Yes that seems logical although there many new drives being developed or in production. Like the Kervelo Quartz 12 (70 Nm & 4.0 kg), the Comp C-18 (80 Nm & 3.0 kg) and the Comp C-19 (60 Nm & 2.6 kg). Many others that may or may not make it to production.

    That 2.6kg 60nm motor and a hot swap battery could smoke the SL in both power and range. Keep the spares in the car or a backpack and just slide them in when you need to change.

  234. That 2.6kg 60nm motor and a hot swap battery could smoke the SL in both power and range. Keep the spares in the car or a backpack and just slide them in when you need to change.

    What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

    Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

    Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

  235. What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

    Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

    Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

    @Fivetones with your situation you’re obviously looking primarily at lighter, but possibly have some range/power concerns. Have you considered the BH CARBON ATOM LYNX 6 ? 19.4kg 720wh battery Brose Full Fat motor ?

  236. That 2.6kg 60nm motor and a hot swap battery could smoke the SL in both power and range. Keep the spares in the car or a backpack and just slide them in when you need to change.

    What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

    Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

    Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

    And what you seem to forget is that in the next couple of years companies will do exactly what I just said. It’s likely already in development.

    Also I never touched on support or software that is a different subject. You are talking about total package. Which all things considered is a fair point. But not the point I was making.

    Given there is no fair testing or criticism in this industry we really dont know which is the best motor or battery. I’m still wondering how the YT 540wh managed to outlast the 700wh levo in robs video. That would be setting alarm bells off for me right there. Some unbiased testing might show up some red flags when it comes to that brose motor that nobody is considering. Especially considering the premium that battery and motor combination is asking for.

    How about putting together a test bench for ebikes to simulate riding and then see which motor actually performs as claimed.

    My early money says the American brands claims are wide of the mark. Then the germans and then the Japanese in that order.

  237. And what you seem to forget is that in the next couple of years companies will do exactly what I just said. It’s likely already in development.

    Also I never touched on support or software that is a different subject. You are talking about total package. Which all things considered is a fair point. But not the point I was making.

    Given there is no fair testing or criticism in this industry we really dont know which is the best motor or battery. I’m still wondering how the YT 540wh managed to outlast the 700wh levo in robs video. That would be setting alarm bells off for me right there. Some unbiased testing might show up some red flags when it comes to that brose motor that nobody is considering. Especially considering the premium that battery and motor combination is asking for.

    How about putting together a test bench for ebikes to simulate riding and then see which motor actually performs as claimed.

    My early money says the American brands claims are wide of the mark. Then the germans and then the Japanese in that order.

    A test bench / independent verification is a good idea.

    All motors are not made to the same efficiency levels. So a SL1.1 Motor is claimed to be 80% efficient at a cadence of 90rpm. I don’t know what the Brose is.

    Different brands will have different efficiencies.

    Fazua has 60Nm of torque but at what cadence? If it’s a cadence of 20, then at a cadence on 90 it provides 5nm torque then it’s pretty weak.

    Definitely more needs to be done so we can compare systems on a like for like basis.

  238. I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

    It doesn’t really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified – you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

    I think this is the Fazua’s downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

    If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven’t ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

  239. I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

    It doesn’t really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified – you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

    I think this is the Fazua’s downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

    If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven’t ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

    Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

  240. Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

    Totally agree, I just think that all things being equal between a pair of motors, the software is going to be the element most impacting the rider experience.

  241. I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

    It doesn’t really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified – you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

    I think this is the Fazua’s downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

    If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven’t ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

    Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

    This wouldn’t be that hard to do.

    I’m sure I saw some product on youtube advert with a canyon bike on it designed for indoor cycling.

    You could use that to create resistance in the same way a spinning bike works. Connect the crank to a motor with a speed controller.

    Then you would test the each motor in different scenarios which would be repeatable between motors until each battery ran flat.

    This would give you a baseline performance metric with 3 data points per motor and battery combination.

    Put it this way.. it would be a world first and the youtube hits alone would be epic.

    You have access to the bikes and 30k youtube followers. The amount of content that would produce would be epic.

    I wonder how long it would take until manufacturers started to cheat like the vw scandal :)

  242. I did some data mining using BLEvo and a calulation to work out NM from a motors given Amps / Watts.

    I cannot validate this data but here’s a quick graph I made from the ride data:

    View attachment 25914

    I didnt pedal to high enough cadences in my last ride as i didnt anticipate making this graph. But you can see the NM quicly drops off after cadence 65. But Watts remain high throughout cadence. I’ll work on it a bit more to look at wider cadences.

    I only used data from 100% Turbo mode with fresh battery.

    To add: this is all based of data I captured using BLEvo that gets the data from the SL motor. It is interesting none the less…

    I will do the same to BROSE. All we need is BLEvo to work with Shimano / Bosch / Fazua and Yamaha… @PaoloBLEvo !!!

    #dataiscool

  243. I got a chance to ride one the other day while I waited for my mechanic buddy to mod my left brifter into a dropper activator. Steep up hill right out the door and in Turbo was about equivalent to my bike at the same power level, but I have two levels to go and I think I would miss them.

    Light enough for sure but I have come to adapt to the weight of a bike in the 40lb range and don’t see the need to switch, especially for the $12.5 sticker price of the one I rode.

  244. ^^ I think the introduction of the Levo SL mean that they can make the Levo burlier. Levo SL is just a new segment and for a different type of rider than the Levo. So they will differentiate the bikes more by making the Levo burlier for the "traditional" ebike riders. They will then probably make an ultralight Levo SL hardtail just to get more and more people riding ebikes and to create more sales and ultimately just rule the ebike market.
  245. I heard the Levo HT didnt sell well. There was a lot of end-of-season discounts and then the 2019 models came out with a much lower spec of components, presumably to try to shift them.

    I like a hard tail (see avatar pic!) but they tend to look poor value next to entry-level full sussers.

    Technically, I agree though! I’d love to see a progressive and agile HT with the SL system!

  246. Coming from a soon to be ex specialized customer.

    I’d like them to actually install decent components on their bikes their own brand stuff must be saving a fortune so there is no reason to install entry level brakes on a 7 grand bike. I’m still wondering how I managed to get guide rsc on my s works with no bite adjustment. They somehow put the carbon levers on the rs bodies and called them rsc.

  247. I heard the Levo HT didnt sell well. There was a lot of end-of-season discounts and then the 2019 models came out with a much lower spec of components, presumably to try to shift them.

    I like a hard tail (see avatar pic!) but they tend to look poor value next to entry-level full sussers.

    Technically, I agree though! I’d love to see a progressive and agile HT with the SL system!

    is a emtb hardtail simply not gonna spin out the rear wheel when some power is applied?

  248. Nope, I have an EMTB hard till and it’s a of fun, I actually find it climbs better than my FS.
    however without the rear suspension the extra weight is far more noticeable on a hard tail, and that is the main problem.

    Kinesis have just launched a new hard tail with the Fazua system that looks interesting

  249. LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

    Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

    I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

    I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

    I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days…. I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

    I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer….

    Cheers!

    Yes I really cant see them spending more time on the current Levo unless they put a newer motor in it or Brose develop the Mag-s a bit more. Why would you hang on to a motor that has been the issue in so many of the warranty claims. Even though I like the more powerful Levo, if I was to buy a new bike I would probably get an SL as it’s more current. I would have to try it out first of course. All the ‘full fat’ Levo needs is a more reliable motor, a scaled up SL maybe with better connections. I’m on my third 2.1 now in just over a year!

  250. LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

    Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

    I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

    I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

    I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days…. I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

    I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer….

    Cheers!

    Yes I really cant see them spending more time on the current Levo unless they put a newer motor in it or Brose develop the Mag-s a bit more. Why would you hang on to a motor that has been the issue in so many of the warranty claims. Even though I like the more powerful Levo, if I was to buy a new bike I would probably get an SL as it’s more current. I would have to try it out first of course. All the ‘full fat’ Levo needs is a more reliable motor, a scaled up SL maybe with better connections. I’m on my third 2.1 now in just over a year!

    3 motors in a year really isn’t good. I’d be concerned once warranty is gone.

  251. Here are my stats after my demo ride last Sunday on a Levo SL expert with range extender.
    Place: Henry Coe State Park – Gilroy, California
    Weather: Wind storm; about 50mph to 60mph on the ridge; I had to stop a couple of times as I get deflected by the wind gust; lots of tress and branches fell.
    Ride time: 3 hours 26 minutes
    Distance: 24.5 miles
    Ascent: 5,969 ft
    Descent: 5,982 ft
    Fastest Speed: 30.6 mph
    Total Consumption: 429wh
    Average Support Level: 115.81%
    Battery remaining after the ride: 17%
    Fun factor: ear to ear grin!
    My wallet after the ride: Lighter as I bought a comp carbon model – cast berry color.
    My wife’s reaction: "you better sell your other bikes!"
  252. 3 motors in a year really isn’t good. I’d be concerned once warranty is gone.

    Yes I know, maybe I’ve just been unlucky ? Time will tell I suppose with the SL but it looks promising .

    That is no way a QC issue. This many failures is a design problem.

    I have read they blame the british wet winters but the americans have had problems too. Its possible that 90nm and 410% assistance was overly ambitious. Might be a reason why Bosch and shimano stick to 350ish and 70 odd nm.

  253. Here are my stats after my demo ride last Sunday on a Levo SL expert with range extender.
    Place: Henry Coe State Park – Gilroy, California
    Weather: Wind storm; about 50mph to 60mph on the ridge; I had to stop a couple of times as I get deflected by the wind gust; lots of tress and branches fell.
    Ride time: 3 hours 26 minutes
    Distance: 24.5 miles
    Ascent: 5,969 ft
    Descent: 5,982 ft
    Fastest Speed: 30.6 mph
    Total Consumption: 429wh
    Average Support Level: 115.81%
    Battery remaining after the ride: 17%
    Fun factor: ear to ear grin!
    My wallet after the ride: Lighter as I bought a comp carbon model – cast berry color.
    My wife’s reaction: "you better sell your other bikes!"

    Awesome! You won’t need them now!!

  254. 3 motors in a year really isn’t good. I’d be concerned once warranty is gone.

    All the major motor manufacturers need to get the issue of reliability sorted ,my E8000 motor lasted 18 months and 1600 miles before I got the dreaded EO10 error code, 2 guys I ride with have a Levo and a Kenevo both have had new motors and one has had a new battery, there is simply no excuse for this, there is no reason why motors shouldn’t be able to cover many thousands of miles,if designed with reliability in mind and not light weight, it will be very interesting to see how this new specialized motor stands up to the rigours of mountain biking, I wouldn’t want to be a beta tester for them

  255. All the major motor manufacturers need to get the issue of reliability sorted ,my E8000 motor lasted 18 months and 1600 miles before I got the dreaded EO10 error code, 2 guys I ride with have a Levo and a Kenevo both have had new motors and one has had a new battery, there is simply no excuse for this, there is no reason why motors shouldn’t be able to cover many thousands of miles,if designed with reliability in mind and not light weight, it will be very interesting to see how this new specialized motor stands up to the rigours of mountain biking, I wouldn’t want to be a beta tester for them

    The big worry is what happens after the warranty runs out, new motors should get a renewed 2 year warranty period in my opinion and not from the purchase date of the bike! I guess their problem with that would mean possibly replacing motors for the lifetime of the bike!!! On the other hand if I had paid up to £10000 for a car I would not expect to have replace the engine in the first two years 😬Hope the new motor is more reliable .

  256. I have been so close to pulling the trigger on a Levo Comp over the last month, glad I held off because I think the SL is right up my alley. I’m already an experienced rider with decent fitness but looking for a little help on the climbs and on longer rides.The only thing that worries me is being an early adopter of a 1st Gen bike. Will there be kinks that need worked out? Will the prices come down quickly? It’s just hard to say right now. The components on the comp models seem a little lacking for the price. I’m a light rider at only 5.7 ft and 135 lbs. I consider myself an intermediate level rider. I ride everything from handcut rocky and rooty xc trails, to smooth flow trails, to jumpy and rocky downhill trails. This would be my only bike. Current bike is an aluminum full suspension 27.5+ bike with 130mm of travel front and back(Pike fork). Rob (or anyone), think a comp sl would be a match for me? Would the fox 34 rythm hold me back at all? Lot of money for a bike! Thoughts?

    I’m in exactly the same situation as you. Worried about spending 5k and not being happy with the spec. test ride booked but hidiou weather forecast so cancelled till next week.

    I just ordered the YT Decoy. £4300 with full fox elite suspension and XT drive train in full carbon. 160mm travel.

    I could buy a spare battery and motor and still have money left over before I even got to specialized expert model price.

    Dont be fooled in to this local bike store crap either most are chains and dont give a crap. You ain’t supporting a mom and pop store usually and even then they will still fix a problem cheap. Only big warranty claims need to go back. If I cant use the bike I’ll go to the pub or do one of my other sports it’s really no big deal.

    Specialized are ripping off the uk Ive seen a price in europe which was 17% full rrp less. They also breach uk and European law. Explain why euro dealers are not allowed to ship to uk inside the so called single market? Dealers are scared to show discounted 2020 bikes online which is also illegal price control. All the videos online are paid propaganda nearly all breach uk law because they fail to inform it’s not a review it’s a paid promotion.

    That comp model is a joke. My 2016 stumpjumper had better suspension and spec. One levo model didnt even come with a dropper post!!!

  257. I just ordered the YT Decoy. £4300 with full fox elite suspension and XT drive train in full carbon. 160mm travel.

    I could buy a spare battery and motor and still have money left over before I even got to specialized expert model price.

    Dont be fooled in to this local bike store crap either most are chains and dont give a crap. You ain’t supporting a mom and pop store usually and even then they will still fix a problem cheap. Only big warranty claims need to go back. If I cant use the bike I’ll go to the pub or do one of my other sports it’s really no big deal.

    Specialized are ripping off the uk Ive seen a price in europe which was 17% full rrp less. They also breach uk and European law. Explain why euro dealers are not allowed to ship to uk inside the so called single market? Dealers are scared to show discounted 2020 bikes online which is also illegal price control. All the videos online are paid propaganda nearly all breach uk law because they fail to inform it’s not a review it’s a paid promotion.

    That comp model is a joke. My 2016 stumpjumper had better suspension and spec. One levo model didnt even come with a dropper post!!!

    I do agree that for the prices Specialise charge they could include a better spec on some components, they don’t compare well to other brands in this respect. I guess it means they can always offer an S-Works model which has the components that we all want. I’m sure they are able to buy components at a good deal in the volumes of bikes they sell? This should be passed on to the consumer. They also make sure they lend as many bikes out as possible to reviewers so they always get pretty ‘favourable’ reviews! After all these guys will want more bikes to test and ride in the future right? They are good at marketing and the recent live forum was however a brave step with some slightly awkward questions that were skilfully answered.

  258. Yeah but I don’t want a YT Decoy.

    Right now the only bike in the short chainstay lightweight 29" sector is the SL.

    Yeah they’re pricey. It’s a market, buy it or don’t. We all have choice.

    I want an SL but I think I’ll sit it out for now – a test ride may change that tho.

    But I’m 53. The clock is ticking and I want to ride. I’m also fortunate that on paper I can afford it. How long do I wait?

    My dealer’s OK but your point is sound.

    Our glorious Brexit has ****ed GBP. (Don’t look at me on that one!).

    I look forwards to the day when dealer support isn’t necessary for an emtb. I don’t need dealer support for my bio bikes, I fix them myself.

    ps I don’t know the law on paid promotion but I think channels need to watch they don’t get perceived as Spesh shills and loose their independent authority. Perhaps that’s why Santa Cruz didn’t bother with some of the emtb channels for the Heckler launch.

  259. Yeah but I don’t want a YT Decoy.

    Right now the only bike in the short chainstay lightweight 29" sector is the SL.

    Yeah they’re pricey. It’s a market, buy it or don’t. We all have choice.

    I want an SL but I think I’ll sit it out for now – a test ride may change that tho.

    But I’m 53. The clock is ticking and I want to ride, how long do I wait?

    My dealer’s OK but your point is sound.

    Our glorious Brexit has ****ed GBP. Not my choice.

    I look forwards to the day when dealer support isn’t necessary for an emtb. I don’t need dealer support for my bio bikes, I fix them myself.

    It’s not light weight though is it. Its just lighter than normal. Only the top s works model is light. The comp is 19.5kg without pedals.

    2.3" tyres are pants compared to 2.5 or 2.6. Trail compound on a 20kg bike without range extender. I forget specialized casing names but is that the thin wall?

    Looks to me like some major compromises to save a couple of kg off the bike.

    16.9kg S Works is the bait for £11,000. Walk out of the store with a 20kg comp for the normal biker with half the normal assistance, less range and an untested motor.

  260. Each to their own mate, enjoy your YT.

    Yes Spesh are good marketers. Nothing wrong with that, business is business, no one’s being exploited by expensive ebikes.

  261. Have only managed a carpark ride as have been flat on my back for 2 weeks and missed a chance to ride one on the trails. Based on 10 minutes playing around I think for me comparing this to a Levo Comp, the Comp has the nod.
    However, I think the new Scott I am looking at with the G4 Bosch not only has the range, but is a far better value for money package. I’m happy to pony up for my toys, but with my second Levo motor doing strange things with how much range I get from 1 charge to the next it is out the door once the new bike arrives.
  262. Yeah but I don’t want a YT Decoy.

    Right now the only bike in the short chainstay lightweight 29" sector is the SL.

    Yeah they’re pricey. It’s a market, buy it or don’t. We all have choice.

    I want an SL but I think I’ll sit it out for now – a test ride may change that tho.

    But I’m 53. The clock is ticking and I want to ride. I’m also fortunate that on paper I can afford it. How long do I wait?

    My dealer’s OK but your point is sound.

    Our glorious Brexit has ****ed GBP. (Don’t look at me on that one!).

    I look forwards to the day when dealer support isn’t necessary for an emtb. I don’t need dealer support for my bio bikes, I fix them myself.

    ps I don’t know the law on paid promotion but I think channels need to watch they don’t get perceived as Spesh shills and loose their independent authority. Perhaps that’s why Santa Cruz didn’t bother with some of the emtb channels for the Heckler launch.

    Each to their own mate, enjoy your YT.

    Yes Spesh are good marketers. Nothing wrong with that, business is business, no one’s being exploited by expensive ebikes.

    True, just wish they were a bit less expensive. I have an S-Works Levo, had to spend a long time trying to justify the expense ! Just for the record a year old and three motors!! I still love the bike though :) I know I could have bought a cheaper model with the same motor but hey ho 😀 I think the weight of the new SL is now a bigger consideration with the smaller Less powerful motor making the S-Works SL more desirable due to the 16.9Kg weight.

  263. Yeah Peter I wish it too.

    But let’s keep it real, these are just expensive toys. Plenty of people out there using food banks just to get through the week. "Affordability" is very relative.

    Bummer about the motors, that’s not great. A lot of people stretch to afford these things, they need to deliver.

  264. All the videos online are paid propaganda nearly all breach uk law because they fail to inform it’s not a review it’s a paid promotion.

    Who exactly? And what’s your source?

    Emtb network and their sister youtube channel gmtb network.

    YouTubes algorithm has started putting "contains paid promotion" on some videos but most do not. This is under threat from regulators.

    The real murky situation is when they sponsor adverts but give a bike to review for free. Whilst it’s not direct paid reviews the threat of them pulling advert spend means that rarely a bad word is said . If a commercial agreement exists then it is all considered paid promotion. The regulator is going after individual Instagram influencers with huge fines for the same reasons.

    Ebike-mtb given 2 weeks exclusive access to the SL. This is a commercial advantage and also considered paid for content.

    This in my opinion is no different than paying for fake reviews on amazon. Its just more sophisticated in its method.

    End of the day money talks.

  265. It’s not light weight though is it. Its just lighter than normal. Only the top s works model is light. The comp is 19.5kg without pedals.

    2.3" tyres are pants compared to 2.5 or 2.6. Trail compound on a 20kg bike without range extender. I forget specialized casing names but is that the thin wall?

    Looks to me like some major compromises to save a couple of kg off the bike.

    16.9kg S Works is the bait for £11,000. Walk out of the store with a 20kg comp for the normal biker with half the normal assistance, less range and an untested motor.

    You can walk out of the store for £6750 with a Levo SL Expert – and it’s 17.7kg. A few tweaks, and I think I can get it nearer 17kg.

    I’ve been riding a 22+kg Trek Rail 9.9 for the last few weeks, and have decided the excess weight is not for me.
    17kg is still a heavy bike – but 5kg is a LOT of weight to shed.

    The SL won’t be for everyone. That’s a fact! People who have been riding Bosch / Shimano and Brose motors will be difficult to convert since they’re used to so much more power. For me, I want something to give me a little boost – not to rocket up the hills like a trail bike.

    The 2.3 tyre saves 60g over the 2.6 tyre. Specialized run the Stumpjumper and Levo now with a 2.3 rear and a 2.6 front. I’ll be adding 60g onto my Expert and putting a 2.6 on the front!

  266. Emtb network and their sister youtube channel gmtb network.

    YouTubes algorithm has started putting "contains paid promotion" on some videos but most do not. This is under threat from regulators.

    The real murky situation is when they sponsor adverts but give a bike to review for free. Whilst it’s not direct paid reviews the threat of them pulling advert spend means that rarely a bad word is said . If a commercial agreement exists then it is all considered paid promotion. The regulator is going after individual Instagram influencers with huge fines for the same reasons.

    Ebike-mtb given 2 weeks exclusive access to the SL. This is a commercial advantage and also considered paid for content.

    This in my opinion is no different than paying for fake reviews on amazon. Its just more sophisticated in its method.

    End of the day money talks.

    You raise some interesting points. As a YouTube creator I’d like to add a few things.

    “Contains paid promotion” tagged videos are not a YouTube algorithm. The creator must physically tag when a video contains paid content. This isn’t a YouTube algorithm but a declaration by the video creator.

    EMBN have clearly tagged that their video contained paid promotion.

    On the ‘free’ bike aspect, all manufacturers loan bikes out to media outlets to test. I have a test bike. It’s not mine. I do not own it. At some point Specialized will ask for it back.

    There is no agreement that I make content. No contract. Nothing.

    This is the same with most bike companies.

    I’m actually going to make a YouTube video on paid content to explain my position here as there’s a few things I want to be clear on.

  267. Emtb network and their sister youtube channel gmtb network.

    YouTubes algorithm has started putting "contains paid promotion" on some videos but most do not. This is under threat from regulators.

    The real murky situation is when they sponsor adverts but give a bike to review for free. Whilst it’s not direct paid reviews the threat of them pulling advert spend means that rarely a bad word is said . If a commercial agreement exists then it is all considered paid promotion. The regulator is going after individual Instagram influencers with huge fines for the same reasons.

    Ebike-mtb given 2 weeks exclusive access to the SL. This is a commercial advantage and also considered paid for content.

    This in my opinion is no different than paying for fake reviews on amazon. Its just more sophisticated in its method.

    End of the day money talks.

    You raise some interesting points. As a YouTube creator I’d like to add a few things.

    “Contains paid promotion” tagged videos are not a YouTube algorithm. The creator must physically tag when a video contains paid content. This isn’t a YouTube algorithm but a declaration by the video creator.

    EMBN have clearly tagged that their video contained paid promotion.

    On the ‘free’ bike aspect, all manufacturers loan bikes out to media outlets to test. I have a test bike. It’s not mine. I do not own it. At some point Specialized will ask for it back.

    There is no agreement that I make content. No contract. Nothing.

    This is the same with most bike companies.

    I’m actually going to make a YouTube video on paid content to explain my position here as there’s a few things I want to be clear on.

    I’d say your videos are well balanced. As an individual it’s likely easier to be as well.

    But there is an algorithm that youtube does use for paid for content. That check box is self declaration. A friend of mine had a threat of channel deletion because he was not telling his audience that BOTB were sponsoring his content. YouTube are scared the regulators will hold them personally responsible. Once a channel is flagged then someone reviews the content and if they feel its promotion then they issue the channel strike warning.

    Publications receive marketing spend to run adverts and that is how they pay staff and host the website. Without this spend they would not exist. Who do you think is paying for all those trips around the world to ride bikes? At what point is that bike given for free to review without catches?

    If you stopped making videos rob would they continue to keep giving you bikes? So that contract might not be on paper but it’s there isn’t it.

  268. Let’s be perfectly clear here, as a failed gigolo, I’m perfectly open and available for all forms of paid promotion.
  269. It’s not light weight though is it. Its just lighter than normal. Only the top s works model is light. The comp is 19.5kg without pedals.

    2.3" tyres are pants compared to 2.5 or 2.6. Trail compound on a 20kg bike without range extender. I forget specialized casing names but is that the thin wall?

    Looks to me like some major compromises to save a couple of kg off the bike.

    16.9kg S Works is the bait for £11,000. Walk out of the store with a 20kg comp for the normal biker with half the normal assistance, less range and an untested motor.

    You can walk out of the store for £6750 with a Levo SL Expert – and it’s 17.7kg. A few tweaks, and I think I can get it nearer 17kg.

    I’ve been riding a 22+kg Trek Rail 9.9 for the last few weeks, and have decided the excess weight is not for me.
    17kg is still a heavy bike – but 5kg is a LOT of weight to shed.

    The SL won’t be for everyone. That’s a fact! People who have been riding Bosch / Shimano and Brose motors will be difficult to convert since they’re used to so much more power. For me, I want something to give me a little boost – not to rocket up the hills like a trail bike.

    The 2.3 tyre saves 60g over the 2.6 tyre. Specialized run the Stumpjumper and Levo now with a 2.3 rear and a 2.6 front. I’ll be adding 60g onto my Expert and putting a 2.6 on the front!

    If you dont get 15% off then you didnt haggle with the right shop. I’d also say the expert is the minimum spec I’d consider in their whole range now. Anything below is too gimped

  270. Its the person buying the bikes business how much they pay, I couldn’t care what someone pays for a bike. I dont get why people get offended that brand X charges more than brand Y.
  271. If you dont get 15% off then you didnt haggle with the right shop. I’d also say the expert is the minimum spec I’d consider in their whole range now. Anything below is too gimped

    I thought 10% off was pretty decent considering the bike was only released 4 days prior to ordering.

  272. Its the person buying the bikes business how much they pay, I couldn’t care what someone pays for a bike. I dont get why people get offended that brand X charges more than brand Y.

    Nobody is offended.

    But when I got in to this sport I wished someone had pointed out to me that specialized charges top price for bargain bin parts on its comp models with corners even cut on its S works.

    It didnt take me long to find the limit of those parts even on a trail centre ride. Then came the reliability problems from specialized own brand junk they substituted in to the bike. Soft metal that bends in the fingers. Dropper posts that get stuck. An alloy defect that sheared off and sent me hitting the floor at 30mph. The s works enduro washed out 3 times before I chucked the tyres in the bin and I wasnt even pushing it. Swapping out internal parts of suspension and making customers think they get full fat ohlins when really you get a budget version hidden in ohlins wrapper.

    Whilst i have no problem with the price of premium bikes. I do have a problem with corner cutting and then charging a premium. Got the scars to prove it.

  273. On the ‘free’ bike aspect, all manufacturers loan bikes out to media outlets to test. I have a test bike. It’s not mine. I do not own it. At some point Specialized will ask for it back.

    That is how it has always been for pretty much any vehicle. I started test riding MX bikes for some magazines in the 70’s and got into all sorts of product testing over the years. From about 1999 onwards I have been involved with several American MX websites with a lot of testing involved and things were pretty much the same as in the 70’s. Bikes were either short or long term loans, but things like helmets, boots etc were usually supplied and not required back – which allowed our test riders to always have new looking gear for photo sessions.

    Promotion and marketing is what it is and no matter what the noddies at the EU think, things will continue as they have I believe.

  274. A tip on negotiating with bike shops – after the big numbers it’s cheaper for them to give you parts than cash. Cash goes immediately off their bottom line but say upgraded bars for £60 to you would be more like £30 to them.

    Also things like tubeless setup may be easy for them – they have a compressor – but a PITA to do yourself at home.

    And be reasonable. They have to be happy too. The aim here is to enjoy riding your bike not prove you can be a hard nosed ***t.

  275. 15% is available from day 1.

    I’ll try some re-negotiation when I go collect it on Monday!

    Bike discounts dont increase until the next years models hit and even then specialized seem to be cutting stock holding rather than dropping price. Dealer margin is the same on day 1 as it is 6 months later I believe. Stock availability is another matter though. But all a dealer does is order from specialized and if they have stock they send it no matter who it is.

    I drove an hour to a bike shop to see a whyte with the hint hint promise of a deal on a e180. Got there and battery was flat and the discount was £250. Never again.

  276. thread getting quite off topic. @Fx1 your points on the SL are fair, I don’t think people here are naive about what they’re buying.
  277. They do the SL-SL version without the suspension for people who want even lighter or want to save money. You can save £750 on the base model or £500 on the comp carbon. (No savings if want an expert) The Creo is there for you.
  278. They do the SL-SL version without the suspension for people who want even lighter or want to save money. You can save £750 on the base model or £500 on the comp carbon. (No savings if want an expert) The Creo is there for you.

    Dont forget the SL SL SL version. Comes with a 3 month diet and 12kg of weight loss. Lose another 4kg and the bike in theory weighs nothing :)

  279. Wow, great trail to ride with great scenery and some very sketchy skinny parts to navigate through (y) A long way down if you came off in the wrong place :eek: Also, you wouldn’t want to be scared of heights in some places by the look of it :eek:
    Very good distance and over 1000 metres of climbing on a 320Wh battery? I could not tell in the video if it was a water bottle or an extender in your bottle cage.
    What percentage of battery was left after the ride was finished?
    What have you got Eco, Trail and Turbo set to?
    How much do you weigh?
    Becoming more and more interested in the SL after seeing your ride and the statistics from it (y)

  280. Whilst it wouldn’t tell you the whole story, it would be interesting to see some stats comparing the SL to 700wh Levo’s out in the wild. You’d have to read between the lines a bit as presumably more SL purchasers are riders who are happier to put in more physical effort on climbs compared to FF Levo owners.

    Mission Control logs all this. I wonder if Spesh could provide some figures to present a broad overview of real world performance and usage to help prospective purchasers ? For instance , comparing the average distance and climbs of SL and FF owners. The maximum distances and climbs of SL and FF owners. Average and Maximum motor and rider powers over given distances ? Without over thinking it – that sort of thing ??? :)

    @Specialized Rider Care ??

  281. Agree but with stats from both FF Levo batteries.
    The 500Wh and the 700Wh v SL 320Wh and then……
    The 500Wh and the 700Wh v SL 320Wh with the 160Wh extender

    This would also give people with the older Levos and Kenevos with the older 504Wh batteries a more informed idea of what they could achieve on an SL if they were on the fence and possibly thinking of the impact if they were to move to an SL.

  282. Just thinking about it, you should really be able to get pretty decent range out of the SL. The ride below was the first ever EMTB forums group ride from 2018, and one of the members on the ride was riding a middle of the range Focus Jam2 with the e8000 motor, and internal 378wh battery. IIRCC they rode mostly in Eco and Trail and managed to finish the ride with 1 bar of battery left, and given that the SL is a more efficient system on a lighter bike, you must be looking at more than that left in the tank over a similar distance.
  283. I would like see a comparison test of a difference in rider fitness on the SL as most of the reviewers tend to be fit and athletic riders, who can pedal a std mountain bike up steep hills anyway !

    Agree but with stats from both FF Levo batteries.
    The 500Wh and the 700Wh v SL 320Wh and then……
    The 500Wh and the 700Wh v SL 320Wh with the 160Wh extender

    This would also give people with the older Levos and Kenevos with the older 504Wh batteries a more informed idea of what they could achieve on an SL if they were on the fence and possibly thinking of the impact if they were to move to an SL.

    I think if your ‘on the fence’ the only way to really decided if the SL is the bike for you is to demo one. 👍I would like think I could ride one around the trails I currently use but I’m unsure if I would enjoy it as much. I never really use turbo but I do ride in trail mode quite a lot up the steeper more technical bits. However, these are lighter bikes so maybe it would be a bit easier? I’m definitely not as fit or skilful as the other riders in the group so maybe I would get left behind on the uphill sections as well as the downhill. I could see myself riding in Turbo a lot on the SL to keep up and maybe the battery would quickly drain? All unknowns really any feedback from less fit riders would be useful?

  284. I was hoping to be able give a view of the bike from a fat bloke’s perspective today, but the weather cried foul on that. Hopefully it won’t be too long before they reschedule.
  285. I was hoping to be able give a view of the bike from a fat bloke’s perspective today, but the weather cried foul on that. Hopefully it won’t be too long before they reschedule.

    I’ll be interested in your perspective as a rail owner 👍

  286. I was hoping to be able give a view of the bike from a fat bloke’s perspective today, but the weather cried foul on that. Hopefully it won’t be too long before they reschedule.

    Be interesting to hear the logic of a light bike with a heavy rider.

  287. Just thinking about it, you should really be able to get pretty decent range out of the SL. The ride below was the first ever EMTB forums group ride from 2018, and one of the members on the ride was riding a middle of the range Focus Jam2 with the e8000 motor, and internal 378wh battery. IIRCC they rode mostly in Eco and Trail and managed to finish the ride with 1 bar of battery left, and given that the SL is a more efficient system on a lighter bike, you must be looking at more than that left in the tank over a similar distance.

    View attachment 26038

    View attachment 26039

    When I demo’ed it I probably tanked the turbo mode more than I should’ve. So for me I reckon I could get more range out of it

  288. Be interesting to hear the logic of a light bike with a heavy rider.

    I don’t think there’s much logic to it at all. The SL isn’t aimed at people like me; it’s been developed to get the fence-sitting fit riders onto an eBike and Spesh is the only game in town so will corner the market for a year at least, maybe two.
    For me, I expect what I lose on the climbs will far outweigh the gains on the descents but the chance to ride it on my home trails is too good to turn down.

  289. I don’t think there’s much logic to it at all. The SL isn’t aimed at people like me; it’s been developed to get the fence-sitting fit riders onto an eBike and Spesh is the only game in town so will corner the market for a year at least, maybe two.
    For me, I expect what I lose on the climbs will far outweigh the gains on the descents but the chance to ride it on my home trails is too good to turn down.

    I think your right Specialised would like to see the riders who are currently on std bikes embrace e-bikes as it’s such a big market if they can be convinced? Guys like me are all already converted and would never go back to a none assisted bike, but a lighter one would be welcome 👍Forums like this and EMBN helped me to decide along with the excellent reviews by Rob and the like. Bike manufacturers now realise what an asset the current users are in helping to persuade the masses.

  290. I would like see a comparison test of a difference in rider fitness on the SL as most of the reviewers tend to be fit and athletic riders, who can pedal a std mountain bike up steep hills anyway !

    I’m an average rider with average fitness.
    I cycle for a couple of hours at the weekend, play golf, and don’t do much else. I’m 6ft 1 3/4” tall and weigh about 83kg (not in riding gear).

    I did the same route 3 times. First week on a 2017 Stumpjumper Expert, second week on. Trek Rail 9.9, and third week on a Levo SL Expert.
    510m elevation and 10.2 miles.
    Times are moving time only – and exclude any water stops / rests….
    Stumpjumper: 1hr 20mins
    Levo SL Expert: 1hr
    Trek Rail 9.9: 46mins

    I made 3 videos for comparison, but haven’t bothered editing them together yet to make them interesting enough to post!! I thought it’d be good for people to see the same person doing the same route on the different types of bike… rather than a normal guy vs a professional athlete!

  291. I’m an average rider with average fitness.
    I cycle for a couple of hours at the weekend, play golf, and don’t do much else. I’m 6ft 1 3/4” tall and weigh about 83kg (not in riding gear).

    I did the same route 3 times. First week on a 2017 Stumpjumper Expert, second week on. Trek Rail 9.9, and third week on a Levo SL Expert.
    510m elevation and 10.2 miles.
    Times are moving time only – and exclude any water stops / rests….
    Stumpjumper: 1hr 20mins
    Levo SL Expert: 1hr
    Trek Rail 9.9: 46mins

    I made 3 videos for comparison, but haven’t bothered editing them together yet to make them interesting enough to post!! I thought it’d be good for people to see the same person doing the same route on the different types of bike… rather than a normal guy vs a professional athlete!

    Do the edit, I think it will be interesting 👍

  292. I don’t think there’s much logic to it at all. The SL isn’t aimed at people like me; it’s been developed to get the fence-sitting fit riders onto an eBike and Spesh is the only game in town so will corner the market for a year at least, maybe two.
    For me, I expect what I lose on the climbs will far outweigh the gains on the descents but the chance to ride it on my home trails is too good to turn down.

    I’m neither fence sitting or particualrly fit. I can still climb on non-motorised mtbs with 20yr younger riding mates but (mainly due to riding an Emtb too much) I’m nowhere near as fit as I once was. If I had a hankering for a 29er trail bike (I really really don’t). I’d be pretty interested in an SL.

    To me the main point in the SL would be to have an Emtb that doesn’t handle like a 50lb mountain bike.
    That doesn’t just mean climbs or descents.
    The improved handling traits of that 10-12lb lighter overall weight should come into play massively every single time you change direction, hop, pop, manual, brake, accelerate etc.

  293. To me the main point in the SL would be to have an Emtb that doesn’t handle like a 50lb mountain bike.
    That doesn’t just mean climbs or descents.
    The improved handling traits of that 10-12lb lighter overall weight should come into play massively every single time you change direction, hop, pop, manual, brake, accelerate etc.

    Exactly why I want one [emoji1303]

  294. I would like see a comparison test of a difference in rider fitness on the SL as most of the reviewers tend to be fit and athletic riders, who can pedal a std mountain bike up steep hills anyway !
    I think if your ‘on the fence’ the only way to really decided if the SL is the bike for you is to demo one. 👍I would like think I could ride one around the trails I currently use but I’m unsure if I would enjoy it as much. I never really use turbo but I do ride in trail mode quite a lot up the steeper more technical bits. However, these are lighter bikes so maybe it would be a bit easier? I’m definitely not as fit or skilful as the other riders in the group so maybe I would get left behind on the uphill sections as well as the downhill. I could see myself riding in Turbo a lot on the SL to keep up and maybe the battery would quickly drain? All unknowns really any feedback from less fit riders would be useful?

    Hoping to get one booked in for a demo soon just waiting for the lbs to confirm a date.

  295. If weather doesn’t go mental again I’ve got one booked for next weekend. Hoping to get a 30 mile 2500ft climbing ride in on Saturday and then a hour n half blasting round trail centre (Haldon hill or Bodmin ) on the Sunday. Fingers crossed.
  296. @Fojsum this is exactly why I go to my local bike shop (Blazing Saddles, Hebden Bridge, UK). Community minded folk and a part of a thriving Calder Valley cycling community along with people like Singletrack magazine.

    @Fx1 this is also why screwing the bike shop out of every last ounce of discount etc doesn’t pay. I want mine to survive.

  297. I just ordered the YT Decoy. £4300 with full fox elite suspension and XT drive train in full carbon. 160mm travel.

    I could buy a spare battery and motor and still have money left over before I even got to specialized expert model price.

    Dont be fooled in to this local bike store crap either most are chains and dont give a crap. You ain’t supporting a mom and pop store usually and even then they will still fix a problem cheap. Only big warranty claims need to go back. If I cant use the bike I’ll go to the pub or do one of my other sports it’s really no big deal.

    Specialized are ripping off the uk Ive seen a price in europe which was 17% full rrp less. They also breach uk and European law. Explain why euro dealers are not allowed to ship to uk inside the so called single market? Dealers are scared to show discounted 2020 bikes online which is also illegal price control. All the videos online are paid propaganda nearly all breach uk law because they fail to inform it’s not a review it’s a paid promotion.

    That comp model is a joke. My 2016 stumpjumper had better suspension and spec. One levo model didnt even come with a dropper post!!!

    Well maybe it’s different in the UK. But all my local bike shops are locally owned and operated. Same guy that owns the shop is the same guy that turns the wrench when I take my bike in to have it worked on. They are involved in the community and advocate for local trails and local riders. They spend free time maintaining local trails and residing over local clubs. They have money tied up in a shop and inventory so I can actually see and test what I’m about to buy. So yeah, I want to support them. Now, I also appreciate the YT model and think they build great bikes at a great value. If they had something similar to an SL I would even consider it, but they don’t. So you enjoy your decoy and we will enjoy are SL.

    The light concept is a good idea. Nothing wrong with that.

    I went for a decoy because it’s a proper gravity focused enduro bike. The easier I can go back up the more time I can go back down. The levo doesnt have the geo for me. Which is why you see so many people falling off them on YouTube. Same happens when you push a stumpjumper.

  298. @Fojsum this is exactly why I go to my local bike shop (Blazing Saddles, Hebden Bridge, UK). Community minded folk and a part of a thriving Calder Valley cycling community along with people like Singletrack magazine.

    @Fx1 this is also why screwing the bike shop out of every last ounce of discount etc doesn’t pay. I want mine to survive.

    Nobody screws anyone out of anything. I got 15% minimum off every specialized without even trying. Some dealers want to move volume. The concept store charges full RRP.

    Who do you think wins when specialized charge 17% more to the uk than europe.. it’s not the independent dealer that’s for sure.

  299. Nobody screws anyone out of anything. I got 15% minimum off every specialized without even trying. Some dealers want to move volume. The concept store charges full RRP.

    Who do you think wins when specialized charge 17% more to the uk than europe.. it’s not the independent dealer that’s for sure.

    Nope, so what you‘re screwing is the independent’s cut. Have you ever talked to an independent bike shop owner and understood their economics?

    Anyway, go and enjoy your YT, it’ll distract you from the SL threads. And don’t ever fall off, wouldn’t want to be one of those losers eh? 🤣

  300. They both *chose* to ride the Stumpy over the Enduro

    Confidence in your bike is pretty important for racing at world class level

  301. Nobody screws anyone out of anything. I got 15% minimum off every specialized without even trying. Some dealers want to move volume. The concept store charges full RRP.

    Who do you think wins when specialized charge 17% more to the uk than europe.. it’s not the independent dealer that’s for sure.

    Nope, so what you‘re screwing is the independent’s cut. Have you ever talked to an independent bike shop owner and understood their economics?

    Anyway, go and enjoy your YT, it’ll distract you from the SL threads. And don’t ever fall off, wouldn’t want to be one of those losers eh? [emoji1787]

    To be honest I couldn’t care less about their economics. Do they care about your economics?

    If you have a good local independant shop great. Most dont.

    I didn’t call anyone losers. You did.

    I was referring to the trail orientated geo of the levo. Make a mistake and you are over the handle bars. Rob has a nice example in his video.

  302. Christ if you cant ride a stump jumper or a Levo down a technical trial without worrying about falling off then maybe your doing the wrong pastime. I dont know how long you have been riding MTB but a stumpjumer is like riding a hover bike down trails compared to bikes of yesteryear.

    Around my local Surrey Hills trials I would take a stump jumper over an enduro any day of the week, maybe not at BPW.

  303. I was referring to the trail orientated geo of the levo. Make a mistake and you are over the handle bars.

    [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

    Rob has a nice example in his video.

    TBF rob has many examples in many videos and on many differing frame geometries ;)

    Lol well I’m not going to speak to soon. I’ve learned a few lessons the hard way.

    I’m not saying the stumpy isn’t capable. It is more bike than most will ever need. I just find the slacker head angle means you need to be less accurate with your line. The enduro isn’t as lively as the stumpy but it will get me out of trouble that I get myself into.

  304. Christ if you cant ride a stump jumper or a Levo down a technical trial without worrying about falling off then maybe your doing the wrong pastime. I dont know how long you have been riding MTB but a stumpjumer is like riding a hover bike down trails compared to bikes of yesteryear.

    Around my local Surrey Hills trials I would take a stump jumper over an enduro any day of the week, maybe not at BPW.

    I dont worry about falling off until I’m 50% over the handle bars.

  305. I just find the slacker head angle means you need to be less accurate with your line.

    It doesn’t
    a slacker HA slows down the steering response, gives a (slightly) longer wheelbase and is more stable at higher speeds. That’s assuming the same stem/bar set up, fork offset, wheel size and tyre choice.
    Don’t make the mistake of jumping on another bike you’re unfamiliar with, throwing yourself over the bars and assuming it was the sole fault of the angle it’s head tube sits at ;)

  306. All this talk of geometry, head angles, chainstay length etc goes completely over my head o_O and I don’t really know what type of mtb my Focus Jam2 is but I do know that it’s great fun to ride and despite my lack of ability I haven’t gone over the handlebars yet… :p
  307. I just find the slacker head angle means you need to be less accurate with your line.

    It doesn’t
    a slacker HA slows down the steering response, gives a (slightly) longer wheelbase and is more stable at higher speeds. That’s assuming the same stem/bar set up, fork offset, wheel size and tyre choice.
    Don’t make the mistake of jumping on another bike you’re unfamiliar with, throwing yourself over the bars and assuming it was the sole fault of the angle it’s head tube sits at ;)

    I find something to blame when it happens [emoji1787]

  308. 15% is available from day 1.

    Great info… when settling the bill, the guy worked out the price and said ‘that’s with your 10% discount’.
    I said ‘it was 15%’.
    He said ‘oh yeah’, and re-wrote out my invoice.

    Not even a question! I guess they gave me 15% off the Rail, so it made sense to give me 15% off the Levo SL.

    Don’t ask, you don’t get!

  309. 15% is available from day 1.

    Great info… when settling the bill, the guy worked out the price and said ‘that’s with your 10% discount’.
    I said ‘it was 15%’.
    He said ‘oh yeah’, and re-wrote out my invoice.

    Not even a question! I guess they gave me 15% off the Rail, so it made sense to give me 15% off the Levo SL.

    Don’t ask, you don’t get!

    Great stuff. Hope I was some help :)

  310. Wow, great trail to ride with great scenery and some very sketchy skinny parts to navigate through (y) A long way down if you came off in the wrong place :eek: Also, you wouldn’t want to be scared of heights in some places by the look of it :eek:
    Very good distance and over 1000 metres of climbing on a 320Wh battery? I could not tell in the video if it was a water bottle or an extender in your bottle cage.
    What percentage of battery was left after the ride was finished?
    What have you got Eco, Trail and Turbo set to?
    How much do you weigh?
    Becoming more and more interested in the SL after seeing your ride and the statistics from it (y)

    I am 75kg 480wh left 100wh first half of trail 30/60 60/70 no turbo second half of trail 30% 30/100 60% 60/100 30% 100/100
    me friend 70kg 390wh 54km 1500hm

    View attachment 26132

    View attachment 26133

    View attachment 26134

  311. Most of the big independent retailers in the uk will offer a 15% discount on them

    I’ll have to try that at Leisure Lakes. But they seem very stubborn with their prices especially on ebikes.
    I was sizing up a Whyte S-150S the other day and went to Leisure Lakes at Southport, UK to actually try one for size. It was a new 2018 model and the last one they have. They were £2850 in 2018. They want £2000. I asked for some more discount but they wouldn’t budge. Probably why they’ve still got it :oops:

  312. I’ll have to try that at Leisure Lakes. But they seem very stubborn with their prices especially on ebikes.
    I was sizing up a Whyte G150S the other day and went to Leisure Lakes at Southport, UK to actually try one for size. It was a new 2018 model and the last one they have. They were £2850 in 2018. They want £2000. I asked for some more discount but they wouldn’t budge. Probably why they’ve still got it :oops:

    Sometimes it’s better to negotiate extras such as batteries, pedals, etc I got loyalty points which added up to a around 6% so not too bad if you need to buy other stuff but not great either. If you can get 15% knocked off the price that would be great obviously 😀 I wonder what Berkshire Cycles offer?

  313. Leisure Lakes in Cheltenham wouldn’t budge an inch off RRP when I inquired about a Kenevo. They also charge for warranty work if you didn’t buy the bike from them.
  314. Leisure Lakes in Cheltenham wouldn’t budge an inch off RRP when I inquired about a Kenevo. They also charge for warranty work if you didn’t buy the bike from them.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not allowed if you’re a specialized dealer. But I wouldn’t put it past them to try that on.

    A local bike store has 2 Sworks Levos in Px and they cant shift them for £3000 barely used 2018 models.

  315. I’ll have to try that at Leisure Lakes. But they seem very stubborn with their prices especially on ebikes.
    I was sizing up a Whyte G150S the other day and went to Leisure Lakes at Southport, UK to actually try one for size. It was a new 2018 model and the last one they have. They were £2850 in 2018. They want £2000. I asked for some more discount but they wouldn’t budge. Probably why they’ve still got it :oops:

    Reminds of these KTM beauties I saw in France last year

    View attachment 26178

  316. Leisure Lakes in Cheltenham wouldn’t budge an inch off RRP when I inquired about a Kenevo. They also charge for warranty work if you didn’t buy the bike from them.

    That’s one of the perks in buying a new Specialized bike, doesn’t matter which dealer you buy it from, you can take it to any Specialized dealership for warranty work. If they try to charge you, they need reporting to Specialized.

    Two mates each purchased a 2017 Levo Expert from Tredz in Swansea and have took their bikes to Leisure Lakes at Southport for warranty work on numerous occasions. One has had 2 new motors the other chap just one. But they’ve both had 2 new batteries!

    These are two examples of why I won’t buy a Levo. OK, they got new parts but it’s the time taking them back to the shop (1hr each way) and the hassle. Life is too short!

  317. Leisure Lakes in Cheltenham wouldn’t budge an inch off RRP when I inquired about a Kenevo. They also charge for warranty work if you didn’t buy the bike from them.

    That’s one of the perks in buying a new Specialized bike, doesn’t matter which dealer you buy it from, you can take it to any Specialized dealership for warranty work. If they try to charge you, they need reporting to Specialized.

    Two mates each purchased a 2017 Levo Expert from Tredz in Swansea and have took their bikes to Leisure Lakes at Southport for warranty work on numerous occasions. One has had 2 new motors the other chap just one. But they’ve both had 2 new batteries!

    These are two examples of why I won’t buy a Levo. OK, they got new parts but it’s the time taking them back to the shop (1hr each way) and the hassle. Life is too short!

    With reliability like this no wonder they are worth less than a written off dacia when second hand.

  318. That’s one of the perks in buying a new Specialized bike, doesn’t matter which dealer you buy it from, you can take it to any Specialized dealership for warranty work. If they try to charge you, they need reporting to Specialized.

    Two mates each purchased a 2017 Levo Expert from Tredz in Swansea and have took their bikes to Leisure Lakes at Southport for warranty work on numerous occasions. One has had 2 new motors the other chap just one. But they’ve both had 2 new batteries!

    These are two examples of why I won’t buy a Levo. OK, they got new parts but it’s the time taking them back to the shop (1hr each way) and the hassle. Life is too short!

    I do agree with you to some degree, I wish Specialised would send some of the upgraded parts out directly, rather than insisting on having a dealer fit them! Other than having to update firmware etc most competent home mechanics can easily fit these parts with the help of the readily available online Spesh workshop guides. Having to take half a day or longer to take your bike to a LBS for them to plug a cable in is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

  319. With reliability like this no wonder they are worth less than a written off dacia when second hand.

    I do agree in part, why do I have take my bike on a two hour round trip to have someone plug a new cable in ? How hard can that be ? Spesh have published a photo of how to do it and we all have a copy of the dealers workshop guide which is freely available on the net. Please can they send future upgraded parts that don’t involve connecting to the dealer support software directly to the customers, we are not all stupid! Thanks 🙏

  320. does anyone know the exact difference between carbon and aluminium frames of the SL in large?

    Simple question. Complex answer.

    Comp likely to be over 1kg heavier just in the frame but could be more because.

    Expert still has alu rear triangle. Uses cheaper carbon so has to use more of it.

    S works uses lighter carbon construction than expert plus carbon components such as wheels and rear triangle.

  321. Simple question. Complex answer.

    Comp likely to be over 1kg heavier just in the frame but could be more because.

    Expert still has alu rear triangle. Uses cheaper carbon so has to use more of it.

    S works uses lighter carbon construction than expert plus carbon components such as wheels and rear triangle.

    This is not true!
    The Comp Carbon / Expert / Sworks in the SL all have the same frame – all the same carbon, and all with carbon rear triangles.
    The only thing that ‘may’ be different is that the Expert has alloy linkages – not sure if the S-Works has carbon linkages?

  322. Simple question. Complex answer.

    Comp likely to be over 1kg heavier just in the frame but could be more because.

    Expert still has alu rear triangle. Uses cheaper carbon so has to use more of it.

    S works uses lighter carbon construction than expert plus carbon components such as wheels and rear triangle.

    This is not true!
    The Comp Carbon / Expert / Sworks in the SL all have the same frame – all the same carbon, and all with carbon rear triangles.
    The only thing that ‘may’ be different is that the Expert has alloy linkages – not sure if the S-Works has carbon linkages?

    You are correct. I clicked the normal Levo.

    The alu then would be quite a bit heavier than even the comp carbon. At that point may as well get the normal levo.

  323. I’m at the Specialized Peaslake Levo SL event on Sunday. I’m hoping it’s a great bike, but that I’ll prefer my 3 month old Levo Comp Carbon. Main reason I bought the Levo was to get more miles of trail riding in in the limited time I have available, which it enables me to do nicely. My rides are nearly always time rather than bike range limited. I’m not into flicks and whips etc, like to ride smooth and as fast as I can and I like the planted feel of Levo.
  324. Just ordered a 29 x 2.6 Specialized Butcher tyre for upfront to see if it fits. It was only £24 inc shipping… so no big loss if it doesn’t.

    Wonder if it’ll measure approx 2.7 wide, since the 2.3 measures 2.4?

    Since the Levo SL is <18kgs, I guess it can get away with standard enduro tyres rather than heavier eMTB specific ones?
    The 2.6 Butcher is listed as 60g heavier than the 2.3 that’s already on the bike.

  325. You don’t need the heavier EMTB tyres on a regular EMTB, it’s more (in my experience) the tread pattern that helps putting down the power and maintains grip.
    inwould choose a tyre based on the terrain your ride and your personal preferences
  326. As an FYI I have run Minions, Magic Mary’s, Hillbilly’s and E-Wilds (all with heaviest casing option) over the last two years, all tubeless, and no punctures in that time round the Surrey Alps
  327. Just ordered a 29 x 2.6 Specialized Butcher tyre for upfront to see if it fits. It was only £24 inc shipping… so no big loss if it doesn’t.

    Wonder if it’ll measure approx 2.7 wide, since the 2.3 measures 2.4?

    Since the Levo SL is <18kgs, I guess it can get away with standard enduro tyres rather than heavier eMTB specific ones?
    The 2.6 Butcher is listed as 60g heavier than the 2.3 that’s already on the bike.

    I have a 2.6 arriving for mine shortly – Shop didn’t get it in with my bike, Its been recommended to me by a Specialized staff that tested the bike, that the 2.6 upfront made it ride nicer.

  328. I have a 2.6 arriving for mine shortly – Shop didn’t get it in with my bike, Its been recommended to me by a Specialized staff that tested the bike, that the 2.6 upfront made it ride nicer.

    I felt on my demo ride that I wanted a little bit wider at the front. My Stumpy has 3.0 tyres on it – so looking down at a skinny 2.3 felt funny. The Trek Rail I had for a few weeks had 2.6, and felt much better.

    I’ve always found Specialized tyres to be good – so I thought I’d try their 2.6 before swapping to a different brand.
    The rear 2.3 seemed fine. I notice Spesh set up the full fat Levo and Stumpys now with 2.6 front and 2.3 rear…

  329. I felt on my demo ride that I wanted a little bit wider at the front. My Stumpy has 3.0 tyres on it – so looking down at a skinny 2.3 felt funny. The Trek Rail I had for a few weeks had 2.6, and felt much better.

    I’ve always found Specialized tyres to be good – so I thought I’d try their 2.6 before swapping to a different brand.
    The rear 2.3 seemed fine. I notice Spesh set up the full fat Levo and Stumpys now with 2.6 front and 2.3 rear…

    This was exactly my feeling too, I’m going to give the spesh one a go before moving over if I want something more.

    The 2.35 def feels small on the front, I wont go bigger on the back due to clearance – but I’ll probably go 2.6 on rear come summer too.

  330. This was exactly my feeling too, I’m going to give the spesh one a go before moving over if I want something more.

    The 2.35 def feels small on the front, I wont go bigger on the back due to clearance – but I’ll probably go 2.6 on rear come summer too.

    I don’t think mine will be here for the weekend, so I’ll just do the rear tubeless for now. No point in making a mess at the front for 1 or 2 rides! Can do it next week.

    Summer where I am (Scotland) is probably as boggy as winter. Not sure if there will ever be a time for a 2.6 on the rear!

  331. I reckon 2.6F 2.3R will be sweet.

    I’m still running the stock 2.6 Butcher on the rear of my ’19 Levo, but really only to wear it out before replacing it.

  332. FYI A 2,6" Bontrager XR4 fits fine in the rear on a SL Comp Carbon. Swapped rear wheels on our demo Trek Fuel Ex 8 with our Demo SL Comp Carbon. It was a weight savings of over 400 grams. The EX8 has a Bontrager Line Comp 30 wheel with XT 12 Speed cassette. The NX derailleur works fine with the XT cassette btw. Weight of the Medium with above changes is now 17,92 kg with XTR pedals and setup tubeless.
  333. i switched the back to a 2.3 on my levo yesterday and it seems a bit quicker steering /easier to correct, i like it

    I’m guessing the rear would follow a tighter (lower radius) arc with a smaller tyre so might fell a tad snappier.

    Or maybe it’s not noticeable in reality.

  334. I reckon 2.6F 2.3R will be sweet.

    I’m still running the stock 2.6 Butcher on the rear of my ’19 Levo, but really only to wear it out before replacing it.

    I’m still running my original butchers as rears too. now on second one – they seem to last forever 😳

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