Orbea x Avinox Rumours

Brawwp said:
My bad. Let’s just hear from people who never rode one on why it’s not worth the upgrade.
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Dude.

Traction control. Shifting. Navigation. Fucking yaaaaawn...

And you're suggesting chucking away a perfectly good Bosch Gen 5 Orbea Wild, dropping what $15-20K on the same bike with a new Avinox motor - is worth all that expense for: Traction control. Shifting. Navigation?

GTFO, seriously...

Does it maybe have a fuck machine attachment so it can look after your wife since every masculine task seems to be too difficult for you? 🤣
 
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Fugu said:
Dude.

Traction control. Shifting. Navigation. Fucking yaaaaawn...

And you're suggesting chucking away a perfectly good Bosch Gen 5 Orbea Wild, dropping what $15-20K on the same bike with a new Avinox motor - is worth all that expense for: Traction control. Shifting. Navigation?

GTFO, seriously...

Does it maybe have a fuck machine attachment so it can look after your wife since every masculine task seems to be too difficult for you? 🤣
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No not at all. I said “if you have the money go for it, if not don’t go into debt over it.” You asked if the motor is worth the upgrade. Just giving reasons it could be to someone other than the power alone as someone who has owned both. Kinda wild response to that though. Keep your Bosch man. You don’t sound like you want to upgrade and that’s perfectly fine.
 
Brawwp said:
My bad. Let’s just hear from people who never rode one on why it’s not worth the upgrade.
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Weren't you the guy in the other thread comparing Avinox with a Bosch Gen 4 you'd owned prior?

Doesn't sound like you had a Bosch Gen 5. How can you talk about whether the upgrade is worth it?
 
Brawwp said:
You asked if the motor is worth the upgrade.
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"I mean, would the motor really be a reason to upgrade though?"

I asked if the motor would be worth upgrading the whole bike for. It was all in the context of my post.

Brawwp said:
No not at all. I said “if you have the money go for it, if not don’t go into debt over it.” You asked if the motor is worth the upgrade. Just giving reasons it could be to someone other than the power alone as someone who has owned both. Kinda wild response to that though. Keep your Bosch man. You don’t sound like you want to upgrade and that’s perfectly fine.
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Oh you HAVE owned a Bosch Gen 5?
 
Fugu said:
Weren't you the guy in the other thread comparing Avinox with a Bosch Gen 4 you'd owned prior?

Doesn't sound like you had a Bosch Gen 5. How can you talk about whether the upgrade is worth it?
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Are you ok man? I owned two Bosch gen 5 bikes. You will not find anywhere me saying I owned gen 4. Idk where this is stemming from? My liking of the avinox and giving my reason why some people may enjoy an upgrade with the new orbea?

Let’s let this go. I think a complete motor/battery could be worth the upgrade to me. Just as maybe a 0.5 degree different whatever angle on a bike could be worth it to you.
 
Brawwp said:
Are you ok man? I owned two Bosch gen 5 bikes. You will not find anywhere me saying I owned gen 4. Idk where this is stemming from? My liking of the avinox and giving my reason why some people may enjoy an upgrade with the new orbea?

Let’s let this go. I think a complete motor/battery could be worth the upgrade to me. Just as maybe a 0.5 degree different whatever angle on a bike could be worth it to you.
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Well, maybe I have you confused with another Avinox evangelist. My apologies.

There are so many threads, running concurrently right now, and I think you're on most or all of them too - where certain people are going on and on and fucking on about the minor details of the Avinox. It's fine it's being talked about as it's the highest output motor - it's going to get the attention, but we don't need to just get pummelled continuously about the minutiae, with constant "I've got one you don't let me tell you what your opinion should be" facetious bullshit. It's a motor. I'm on my 9th eMTB. I know how short lived any motor improvement is and how little it really means to the majority of us versus bike handling.

Anyway, I'm out...
 
Brawwp said:
A big cost of your emtb is the motor and it can make a huge difference in your riding. Avinox is lighter and traction control imo is better. It also has smooth shift, a new feature that lowers power when you shift, and tons of other features that help save the drivechain. Has navigation now (although heard it’s not great yet). Of course I’d ride one yourself and come to your own conclusions on if it’s worth it which may be a no. After owning Bosch, brose, avinox I think it’s totally worth it if you got the $$. Not worth going into debt over though!
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Your wrong about the Avinox being lighter after you add the needed chain ring protection. I mean it might be lighter, but it's like 50-100 grams total or the like, something inconsequential. Furthermore it's more poorly distributed if you get the 800 wh battery. That's something you can actually feel and that over and over testers dislike.
My own '26 large Wild with a CXR is lighter than any Avinox powered bike I've seen spec for spec. Also the Avinox looks really deteriorates with the big E13 chain ring protection added, so that's gone too when the bike is set up. I tried running without chain ring protection years ago exactly one day here locally; didn't make it through a single ride before I was hiking home.
My Bosch Kiox has Nav plus HR monitoring and also a traction control setting. The Bosch has hard wiring for other transmission systems, but does not yet have Sram hard wiring or Smart shift with any systems. Those features will be here at some point. As much as I like the idea of being hard wired, as long as it can only tie in to a 12-speed transmission, it's kind of useless because that is simply the wrong transmission for an Avinox powered e-bike. It's too weak, too expensive, and has too low of gears. Plus the Bosch has some other features like jump count, manual count, etc. I think all that stuff gets me further away from biking and doesn't really interest me personally.
Either way if you sell your old Bosch Wild you're going to lose thousands and then in 24 months when Avinox upgrades again (for complete rattle removal I suspect) then you're going to lose thousands more on that. But that's your call. I get it, I used to spend a lot of money on bikes but I kind of got to a place where it wasn't really improving my enjoyment to do all that once I had a really dialed in bike. My Wild is the most dialed of them btw, what a bike!
The Avinox pandemonium is just insane and based around looks and Class 2 power levels above all else. Brawwp, Powerslider & killerade in particular seem to be ignoring critical thinking when it comes to this topic. It's just power, power & more power...
The Avinox's superpower is it's very tractable, that's it's best feature and really it's big real world advantage. Not because of the reluctor ring as that's inferior to the sensor that Bosch uses, but due to some programming that many testers clearly prefer. Bosch should try and emulate this in some settings. But I suspect this is a trade off between instant (Bosch) or slightly delayed (Avinox) pedal response that many testers mention.

Ps. This little sweet pea has cranks and goes 45mph and is for sale locally. Is this a step too far or 'still' a MTB? Where is your line, and why there?

Screenshot_20260602_161609_Facebook.webp
 
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@Suns_PSD you’re absolutely correct to add me to the long list of people “ignoring critical thinking” about power levels. However, please don’t neglect the fact that I also ignore critical thinking about speed. Actually you can add that I also lack respect for critical thinking about speed and power.

I don’t hate on people who feel differently, but I can’t promise I’ll subscribe to their viewpoint, or even respect it.
 
Well, either way we've about burned this argument to the ground.
This new Wild is going to be dope and will almost certainly be an improvement over the previous model, that's just how advancement works. And I can say that not desiring an Avinox at all and having a nearly new Bosch Wild in the garage. These things get better nearly every single time.
And I for one am stoked as heck to see it and hear the ride reports from the lucky people that get one!
 
Honestly, it’s great to hear real owner feedback on the Avinox, even if it sounds like high praise. Every motor has its own personality, and if features like the traction control or smooth shifting are hitting the mark for someone, that’s valuable data for anyone shopping around. No single bike is perfect for everyone, but we lose out on good info if people feel like they can't share what they actually enjoy about their ride.
 
I had a testride on the Velduro Rogue and all I can say is that I want this power of the Motor.
Do I need it, probably not. But there are some certain scenarios I want to have it. So if the Wild doesn't come full powered I opt-out.

Probably I will downtune it anyway and drive it with the power we heard here before, but for certain climbs or when I really have limited time I want the full power.

PXL_20260508_131130446 (1).webp
 
Powerslider said:
I don’t accept the premise that power or speed is a metric for how I’d define if it’s a bicycle or motorcycle.
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I mean, it already *is* legally in Europe. e-bikes (which includes e-bikes used on trails on anything except completely private land) are limited to 25km/h and must be pedal assist. If it's faster than that, or has a throttle, then it's a motorbike (and needs tax/insurance/number plates) in the UK or in some parts of Europe a 'speed-pedelec' which has more licence requirements than an e bike.

The power limit was screwed up in the regs so effectively theres no limit (the test is that it has to be able to produce 250w for 30mins without overheating is my understanding however the regs are worded).
AlsbachRyder said:
- no, they don‘t get any new Wilds for their showroom at all - you have to order the bike blindly, without being able to see or test it
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Looking at other manufacturers delivery times the motors aren't with them yet. Avinox have clearly signed up loads (60+) of brands but can't yet deliver all the motors they want so I'm guessing most are getting fewer than they'd like and having to stagger releases. The likelihood is that actually there will be oversupply and a load of discounted bikes next year.

As far as Orbea RS tune goes they're clearly keen to have their own interface as much as possible with the linked dropper so that's likely part of it, but also the avinox motor eats battery if you use it in the upper levels. Most people I know with the M1 have ended up detuning it to get a decent range (which really means the same range as the people they're riding with who are on other brands with about the same size battery).

It makes a whole load of sense for Orbea to do that from the factory and give you an Orbea optimised profile. That'd be good. I'd be surprised if they don't allow you to configure it yourself to standard settings, but then they have done that in the past - thats exactly what they did with the Rise and it did really well for them. (Rise owner here, both mk1 and mk2. I've not got it set up with 2 profiles - the Orbea RS+ mode which I know I can get about 1600m of climb out of, and the full 600w mode which knocks that back to about 1200m).

Personally, 600w and 40-50nm works for me on nearly everything. More wattage and you just get to the speed limiter and the top of the hill quicker at the expense of range. The appeal of the Avinox is the control/responsiveness, the software and the fast charging rather than absolute power.
 
@b33k34 i mostly agree.
if orbea puts a custom tune on it - nice. no problem.
guess it will fit for most people.
but great news - you can tune several cutom tunea on the avinox. and i would like to have at least one profile with full power.

i am a little bit tall and have 100kg. when i tried the atherton with M2s - i had an uphill where i maxed out the power at arround 135rpm and still could not reach 25kmh.

and this is why a generell restriction to 750W would be a nogo for me.
even when there is an open 10s boost.

but we will have answers in a couple of days.
until then it is only speculation
 
killerade said:
Guys, calm down. No 750W cap. Mark my words. 😉
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Agree. Was this evening with a friend of mine at my lbs to buy a amflow px. The guy was very friendly and showed me some pictures from the new Wild. Confirmed a bosch and a avinox version. The bike looks amazing, bit like the Rallon RS with a little bigger section where the motor is. Full 29" They had no info about a 750w detuned motor. But a RS Tune is confirmed.
 
killerade said:
In the background, there is significant lobbying pressure from Bosch to impose a ban on or restrictions limiting e-bike motors to 750 watts. That's the real reason behind all of this controversy.
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Reputable source? Or just rumour?
 
I’m more interested in the Bosch Wild pricing once it drops. In Germany I’m already seeing aggressive pricing on 2026 Wild M10 at 5600€. Hoping for the same on an m team, but nothing yet. Maybe all the secrecy is to avoid making the previous gen sales difficult?
 
killerade said:
In the background, there is significant lobbying pressure from Bosch to impose a ban on or restrictions limiting e-bike motors to 750 watts. That's the real reason behind all of this controversy.
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Is it? And are they? Besides, so what if they are?

And why is that any different or worse than a company lobbying or pressuring for restrictions to be raised?

People need to put the tin foil away, and buy and ride whatever EMTB they want to.
 
Fangs2k said:
Is it? And are they? Besides, so what if they are?

And why is that any different or worse than a company lobbying or pressuring for restrictions to be raised?

People need to put the tin foil away, and buy and ride whatever EMTB they want to.
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If they are lobbying for restrictions; they’d be acting in opposition to what I believe is best. This would greatly increase my resistance to ever buying anything from them.

TBH I’m already highly resistant to Bosch because of their stance on speed. Going after power on an industry level would layer on much, much more.
 
The thing is I have no doubt Bosch could to design a gen 6 CX motor with 1,000W+ that could match the M2S so you have to ask what is their motivation to push the 750W limit so hard? To me I think they are more worried about potential regulation changes that completely fuck the ebike industry and want to get ahead of it and draw the line in the sand now.
 
Why is everyone so obsessed with rules and regulations? Screw the rules if they don't make sense. Just look at the motorcycle scene — there are loads of modified, technically illegal bikes on the road, and nobody seems to care nearly as much as people do in the e-bike community.
 
DylanJM said:
The thing is I have no doubt Bosch could to design a gen 6 CX motor with 1,000W+ that could match the M2S so you have to ask what is their motivation to push the 750W limit so hard? To me I think they are more worried about potential regulation changes that completely fuck the ebike industry and want to get ahead of it and draw the line in the sand now.
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If Bosch can build a 1000W+ motor, then they should simply offer it as a race-only option for private property use. They shouldn't be dictating to the entire market what riders are allowed to have and what they aren't.

It's similar in the motorcycle world. You buy a road-legal, homologated bike, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to modify it for off-road or track-only use. The option should be there for those who want it.

Some manufacturers offer optional race-only versions and upgrades, while others don't. And those who don't offer them generally aren't lobbying every relevant authority and institution for restrictions and bans the way it seems to be happening in the e-bike industry.
 
killerade said:
If Bosch can build a 1000W+ motor, then they should simply offer it as a race-only option for private property use.
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Perhaps they don’t want to and prefer to stay within the market they’re in?

killerade said:
They shouldn't be dictating to the entire market what riders are allowed to have and what they aren't.
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I don’t think they are, they’re pointing at the tanks parked on their lawn and asking whether they should be there.

Beat Bosch up for what they’re actually selling by all means, but not for what they aren’t nor for industry lobbying that goes on everywhere and is a normal part of ‘big business’.
 
Fangs2k said:
I don’t think they are, they’re pointing at the tanks parked on their lawn and asking whether they should be there.

Beat Bosch up for what they’re actually selling by all means, but not for what they aren’t nor for industry lobbying that goes on everywhere and is a normal part of ‘big business’.
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A few people I know who work in this industry are telling me otherwise. Then again, maybe they're all full of shit. Who knows... Only time will tell. :)
 
killerade said:
A few people I know who work in this industry are telling me otherwise. Then again, maybe they're all full of shit. Who knows... Only time will tell. :)
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When you say ‘work in the industry’, can you say in what way?

The guys in my big local LBS tell me all sorts of stuff when I’m sitting having a coffee, but I take it with a big pinch of salt as they’ve always got their own perspective/agenda on things.

I’m pretty confident they don’t have the inside track on any lobbying going on at EU Legislation level…
 
Fangs2k said:
When you say ‘work in the industry’, can you say in what way?

The guys in my big local LBS tell me all sorts of stuff when I’m sitting having a coffee, but I take it with a big pinch of salt as they’ve always got their own perspective/agenda on things.

I’m pretty confident they don’t have the inside track on any lobbying going on at EU Legislation level…
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That's fine, take it with a pinch of salt. I'm just sharing what people are saying; whether you believe it or not is up to each individual. Like I said, only time will tell. :)

You can draw your own conclusions, but when they keep talking about "future regulations" in their presentations, it certainly feels like they know something the rest of us don't.
 
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