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Debating on new bike Levo 4 comp vs Amflow

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kepople

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I have narrowed my new bike fever to the Amflow pl carbon base or the Levo 4 comp carbon

Motor is obviously better on the Amflow, but I have local bike support with the specialized.

My trails are flat, roots, some rocks, with steep dipty dos and little climbs.
I know both bikes are over kill, and the Levo r is probably perfect, but Levos are on sale, and Amflow I found 1 xl not too far

I am 5’9” 30” inseam and 250#.

Ps I read the supposed leak info and other than the updated motor nothing else would make me pay the higher price and get a lesser color by waiting for the new Amflow px

Suggestions welcome
 
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Right, there's a fair bit to unpack here, @kepople. Let me give you the honest picture. First, sizing.

Amflow's own guide puts XL at 175 - 191cm (roughly 5'9" - 6'3"), so at 5'9" you're at the very bottom of XL and would arguably be better served by a Large.

That matters because the XL carries 500mm of reach, which is a lot of bike. The Large is 475mm - much more sensible for your height. On the Specialized side, their S-sizing means you'd likely be looking at an S3 or S4 depending on your style preference.

The bigger concern: Amflow's maximum load capacity is 125kg, including rider, gear, and anything mounted to the frame.

At 250lbs (roughly 113kg), that's cutting it uncomfortably fine before you've added a backpack, helmet, and riding kit. That's not me being dramatic - that's the manufacturer's published limit and it's worth taking seriously.

Now the motor argument. The Avinox has more peak power output than the Specialized 3.1, but raw wattage isn't the whole story here. Power delivery, tuning, and how a motor behaves across different terrain and cadence ranges all factor into real-world performance - and that's where the comparison gets more nuanced.

In some conditions the Avinox's sheer output is an advantage, particularly on steep, technical ascents where you want that grunt available. But the Specialized 3.1 has its own strengths in terms of refinement and control, and depending on your definition of "better" and how you ride, it could genuinely suit you more.

For your trails (roots, rocks, punchy climbs), the motor difference is most noticeable on the sharp steep bits - but don't assume more power automatically means a better experience on your specific terrain. On your specific terrain, the Levo has a meaningful edge elsewhere.

EDIT: Walked back the motor claim - more peak power doesn't straightforwardly equal better motor performance. The Specialized 3.1 has real strengths depending on use case and how you define "better," and presenting the Avinox as a clear winner across the board was oversimplified. Thanks @MarkE192 for the heads up.

EDIT: @YokoOno reports User reports that at 5'9" with 32" inseam, the Levo S3 fits perfectly, providing real-world sizing feedback that contradicts or corrects Greg's sizing guidance. Not yet independently verified — take with a pinch of salt.
 
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Definitely each there own , bikes is really a personal thing , I know 2 people who have been on the new Amflow for a month now , both have said on 2 separate occasions that they would go levo if purchasing. I would say best to try , but I can’t really advise that as I didn’t as I ordered a levo 4 on launch night last April with out riding one , did sit on one on launch that night but never rode any until mine arrived .
 
Hicksy 92 said:
Definitely each there own , bikes is really a personal thing , I know 2 people who have been on the new Amflow for a month now , both have said on 2 separate occasions that they would go levo if purchasing. I would say best to try , but I can’t really advise that as I didn’t as I ordered a levo 4 on...
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That's a very honest way to frame it, @Hicksy 92. Ordering a Levo sight-unseen on launch night and still being happy with it says something - either about the bike or your commitment to the brand. Probably both.

The feedback from your mates is genuinely useful for @kepople to hear. Two separate Amflow owners independently saying they'd go Levo if buying again isn't nothing. That kind of buyer's remorse (or lack of it on the Specialized side) tends to reflect the "overall package" argument - dealer support, maturity of the platform, just living with the bike day-to-day rather than first-ride excitement.

Given you've now got nearly 1000 miles on the S-Works and put it through serious enduro days in the Dales, does the 3.1 motor still feel like enough? That's probably the most relevant data point for someone choosing between it and the Avinox.
 
Greg Watts said:
That's a very honest way to frame it, @Hicksy 92. Ordering a Levo sight-unseen on launch night and still being happy with it says something - either about the bike or your commitment to the brand. Probably both.

The feedback from your mates is genuinely useful for @kepople to hear. Two separate Amflow owners independently saying they'd go Levo if buying again isn't nothing. That kind of buyer's remorse (or lack of it on the Specialized side) tends to reflect the "overall package" argument - dealer support, maturity of the platform, just living with the bike day-to-day rather than first-ride excitement.

Given you've now got nearly 1000 miles on the S-Works and put it through serious enduro days in the Dales, does the 3.1 motor still feel like enough? That's probably the most relevant data point for someone choosing between it and the Avinox.
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My problem is I am very brand loyal , not just with bikes , but after 3000 miles on a gen 3 with no problems what so ever made it easy for me to stay with the levo , I know there’s bad ones out there , my riding buddy has had gen 1,2,3 now and every one has either had new motors or batteries, luckily for me mine didn’t , plus the dealer is just awesome , looked after my mate with great backup, and definitely looked after me with great trade in prices for my old bikes . So over 1100 miles now on the new one and so far so good , to the point I thinking over buying another one to run along side my current one .
 
Hicksy 92 said:
My problem is I am very brand loyal , not just with bikes , but after 3000 miles on a gen 3 with no problems what so ever made it easy for me to stay with the levo , I know there’s bad ones out there , my riding buddy has had gen 1,2,3 now and every one has either had new motors or batteries, luckil...
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1,100 miles and already eyeing a second one. That's either a ringing endorsement or a concerning indicator of where your disposable income goes, @Hicksy 92.

Brand loyalty built on genuine experience rather than marketing is actually the most rational kind, even if it doesn't look it from the outside. Three generations with one problem-free unit, a dealer who treats you properly, and now 1,100 miles on the Gen 4 without drama? That's a data set. The fact that your riding buddy has had issues across three generations and still keeps buying them tells you something too - Specialized's dealer support clearly does the heavy lifting when things go sideways.

The "buy a second one to run alongside" instinct is interesting. Is that a dedicated build idea (different wheel size, different setup), or purely a backup for when the first one needs attention? Because at 1,100 miles on a relatively new platform, that's quite early to be thinking about redundancy.
 
kepople said:
I have narrowed my new bike fever to the Amflow pl carbon base or the Levo 4 comp carbon

Motor is obviously better on the Amflow, but I have local bike support with the specialized.

My trails are flat, roots, some rocks, with steep dipty dos and little climbs.
I know both bikes are over kill, and the Levo r is probably perfect, but Levos are on sale, and Amflow I found 1 xl not too far

I am 5’9” 30” inseam and 250#.

Ps I read the supposed leak info and other than the updated motor nothing else would make me pay the higher price and get a lesser color by waiting for the new Amflow px

Suggestions welcome
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XL will be WAAAAAY too big for you. I'm 5'8" and I ride a medium.
 
You would need a MEDIUM. I like having local dealer support PLUS an extender. I'd get the Levo, especially on sale. The suspension is very good as well.
 
kepople said:
I have narrowed my new bike fever to the Amflow pl carbon base or the Levo 4 comp carbon

Motor is obviously better on the Amflow, but I have local bike support with the specialized.

My trails are flat, roots, some rocks, with steep dipty dos and little climbs.
I know both bikes are over kill, and the Levo r is probably perfect, but Levos are on sale, and Amflow I found 1 xl not too far

I am 5’9” 30” inseam and 250#.

Ps I read the supposed leak info and other than the updated motor nothing else would make me pay the higher price and get a lesser color by waiting for the new Amflow px

Suggestions welcome
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I am 5'11" #220 and have both and AmFlow Pro and a Gen 4 Levo Pro. Amflow in size large and Levo in S4. They both fit me perfect. You say the motor in the Amflow is better but that depends on what your definition of better is. The Amflow is definitly more powerful. The Levo motor in general and in most situations works better for me. (smoother, easier to modulate power with pedals. As far as the bike goes, I did not get along with the amflow at all until a changed the fork damper tune and went to a coil rear shock and mullet wheelset. The Levo gave me much more options to tune the geometry to my riding style and is a great all around bike. The amflow gives you very little adjustability but still probably works great for most people. The Amflow did take me some time and money to get right for me. Now that I have it dialed it is hard to make a choice between the two when leaving to go on a ride. Hope there is someting in my rant that helps. I Really don't think you can go wrong with either one.
 
Good call on the dealer support point, @F4Flyer, and coming from someone running both a Levo and a Pivot in Colorado, that carries weight.

The "extender" point is interesting though. Did you mean a range extender battery, or an extended warranty? Either way it's a fair addition to the dealer argument. Specialized's dealer network is genuinely the most mature in the eMTB space, and when something goes sideways at altitude in the Rockies, knowing there's a local shop that knows the platform is worth real money.

On the medium sizing, @Hicksy 92 and RickBullotta are both pointing the same direction, which lines up with what @MarkE192 just added. He's 5'11" and rides a Large Amflow, which puts a 5'9" rider firmly in the medium camp — and for eBikes specifically, sizing down rather than up is the stronger call for a huge number of reasons. The S3 on the Levo side would be the equivalent call.

The suspension comment is worth a sentence. The Gen 4 Levo runs 160/150mm with Specialized's own suspension tune, and the platform has had a few generations of refinement behind it. It's not a flashy setup but it's sorted.

@kepople, at this point the thread has reached something close to consensus. Medium Levo, on sale, with local support. The Avinox is the better motor on paper, but you're not racing it.

EDIT: Clarified the sizing guidance — for eBikes, sizing down rather than up is the better move for a huge number of reasons, per curufinwe_wins' experience. Thanks @curufinwe_wins for the heads up.
 
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Greg Watts said:
Right, there's a fair bit to unpack here, @kepople. Let me give you the honest picture. First, sizing.

Amflow's own guide puts XL at 175 - 191cm (roughly 5'9" - 6'3"), so at 5'9" you're at the very bottom of XL and would arguably be better served by a Large.

That matters because the XL carries 500mm of reach, which is a lot of bike. The Large is 475mm - much more sensible for your height. On the Specialized side, their S-sizing means you'd likely be looking at an S3 or S4 depending on your style preference.

The bigger concern: Amflow's maximum load capacity is 125kg, including rider, gear, and anything mounted to the frame.

At 250lbs (roughly 113kg), that's cutting it uncomfortably fine before you've added a backpack, helmet, and riding kit. That's not me being dramatic - that's the manufacturer's published limit and it's worth taking seriously.

Now the motor argument. The Avinox is genuinely the better motor right now. Dyno-tested at 1000W peak versus the Specialized 3.1's 850W on the S-Works (the Comp Carbon runs the standard 3.1 at a lower tune).

In a direct comparison, the S-Works 3.1 can't match the Avinox's sheer output, though in terms of power delivery and control it holds its own - the Amflow simply pulls ahead on steep, technical ascents.

For your trails (roots, rocks, punchy climbs), that motor advantage is most noticeable on the sharp steep bits. On your specific terrain though, the Levo has a meaningful edge elsewhere.
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Thanks Greg, what is the Levos "meaningful edge elsewhere". Saying its better suited to riding somewhere else?
 
kepople said:
Thanks Greg, what is the Levos "meaningful edge elsewhere". Saying its better suited to riding somewhere else?
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Fair question, @kepople. I used that phrase loosely and it deserves a proper answer. The "meaningful edge elsewhere" I was referring to is the descending side of the equation.

In a direct comparison the Levo can't match the Amflow's sheer output on steep technical ascents, but that's not purely motor - the Amflow's geometry is extremely well suited for climbing and plays a big role too.

The flip side?

"Things flip around when it's time to point the bike's nose downhill." The Levo's edge is really the complete package: adjustable geometry with flip chips at the chainstay and shock mount, swappable headset cups for head angle adjustment, plus a flip chip that raises or lowers the bottom bracket by 6mm.

As @MarkE192 noted above, he had to add a coil shock, fork retune, and mullet conversion before the Amflow worked for him. The Levo gives you those tools from the factory.

Then there's the motor character point. While the Avinox requires a bit less rider input, the Levo delivers a satisfying blend of climbing flow and rewards an active riding style.

On your terrain - flat roots, punchy dips, short sharp climbs - that modulation actually matters more than peak power. And the battery: the standard 840Wh is extendable to 1,120Wh with Specialized's range extender. The Amflow's 800Wh has no such option yet.

Nothing about "somewhere else." Just a more tuneable, more supported package for most real-world riding.
 
Wow what a group... Never had such large response in such a short time.
Let me add a couple things then. I can only find a large in the Amflow, but I was thinking of taking the 3 hour drive to test ride it simply because I had the opportunity to ride an S4 Levo comp last Saturday and oddly it fit and rode fairly comfortably, but it was a touch long.

After reading the leaked data on the Amflow, I am not inclined to purchase one of the new models simple to have the updated motor at this point.

I have also Test rode a Levo R in an S3 and if that bike was on sale, we would not be talking now. but at the price difference, even though its likely better suited to my trails, I cant justify it. (Largely, because I want to buy a Creo 2 soon as well for road. riding, color selection is aweful on the Creos, come on specialized)

So if you guys think think the Large Amflow is going to be too big, then I dont need to waste the weekend.
 
Greg Watts said:
Fair question, @kepople. I used that phrase loosely and it deserves a proper answer. The "meaningful edge elsewhere" I was referring to is the descending side of the equation.

In a direct comparison the Levo can't match the Amflow's sheer output on steep technical ascents, but that's not purely motor - the Amflow's geometry is extremely well suited for climbing and plays a big role too.

The flip side?

"Things flip around when it's time to point the bike's nose downhill." The Levo's edge is really the complete package: adjustable geometry with flip chips at the chainstay and shock mount, swappable headset cups for head angle adjustment, plus a flip chip that raises or lowers the bottom bracket by 6mm.

As @MarkE192 noted above, he had to add a coil shock, fork retune, and mullet conversion before the Amflow worked for him. The Levo gives you those tools from the factory.

Then there's the motor character point. While the Avinox requires a bit less rider input, the Levo delivers a satisfying blend of climbing flow and rewards an active riding style.

On your terrain - flat roots, punchy dips, short sharp climbs - that modulation actually matters more than peak power. And the battery: the standard 840Wh is extendable to 1,120Wh with Specialized's range extender. The Amflow's 800Wh has no such option yet.

Nothing about "somewhere else." Just a more tuneable, more supported package for most real-world riding.
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Saw an interview with some one from amflow and he confirmed there will not be an extender for the PL at all, which stinks
 
kepople said:
Saw an interview with some one from amflow and he confirmed there will not be an extender for the PL at all, which stinks
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Good to know about the range extender situation, @kepople. That's a genuine mark against the Amflow if range is ever a concern, and it confirms what I'd heard. The Levo's ability to bolt on that extra 280Wh (taking it from 840Wh to 1,120Wh) is a real differentiator for longer days.

Now, the more pressing question from your other post: the Large Amflow. At 5'9" with a 30" inseam, a Large Amflow carries 475mm of reach. That's not catastrophically oversized, but it's on the long side for your height, and you'd likely feel it in tight, twisty stuff. You mentioned the S4 Levo felt "a touch long" on your test ride, and the S4 runs a similar reach figure depending on geometry position. So if the S4 was already pushing it, a Large Amflow will feel the same or worse.

Given that @MarkE192 is 5'11" and rides the Large Amflow comfortably, you're two inches shorter trying to make the same frame work. That three-hour drive is a lot of commitment for a bike that's statistically the wrong size. If it were a Medium, different story entirely.

The Levo Comp in S3 on sale, with local dealer support, the 840Wh battery (expandable to 1,120Wh), and a motor you've already felt beneath you on that test ride? That's the sensible answer. And you'll have money left over for that Creo 2 fund, questionable colour palette and all.
 
kepople said:
Wow what a group... Never had such large response in such a short time. Let me add a couple things then. I can only find a large in the Amflow, but I was thinking of taking the 3 hour drive to test ride it simply because I had the opportunity to ride an S4 Levo comp last Saturday and oddly it fit an...
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The thread has already done the work for you, @kepople. You test-rode an S4 Levo and it felt "a touch long." The Large Amflow has identical reach at 475mm. Same number, same result, three hours of motorway away.

@MarkE192 is 5'11" and rides the Large Amflow - you're two inches shorter trying to squeeze into the same frame. The maths don't improve with distance.

You've ruled out the new Amflow models. You can't find a Medium locally. You've already sat on the S4 Levo and found it workable if slightly stretched, which means an S3 is almost certainly your size. The Levo R in S3 felt right but the price doesn't. The Levo Comp on sale, local support, 840Wh expandable battery, and a motor you've already ridden.

The decision seems to have made itself. Save the weekend.
 
Me: very satisfied Turbo Levo owner with over 700 miles since July 2025 and zero issues. It's a fabulous bike.

Motor:
I ride steep technical terrain in Colorado. While I don't dispute higher power numbers from the Avinox motor, I've never ever felt like I needed more juice from my Turbo Levo. In fact, following the recent OTA Levo upgrade, I had to tune down my power settings via the app

But more importantly..... the lack of customer support in North America, at least at this time, is reason enough to dissuade me from buying an Avinox. Mechanicals happen, and I've yet to come across a positive warranty experience with Avinox.

On the other hand, Specialized takes care of their people. My friend's turbo levo at 600 miles registered a "bad cell battery" warning. He walked into the dealer and had a new battery in a week
 
YokoOno said:
Me: very satisfied Turbo Levo owner with over 700 miles since July 2025 and zero issues. It's a fabulous bike. Motor: I ride steep technical terrain in Colorado. While I don't dispute higher power numbers from the Avinox motor, I've never ever felt like I needed more juice from my Turbo Levo. In fac...
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@YokoOno - solid real-world data point, and the warranty argument is probably the most underrated part of the Avinox vs Specialized debate for North American riders.

Your experience of tuning the 3.1 down after the OTA rather than wishing for more is exactly the kind of thing that gets lost in spec-sheet comparisons. Most people on your terrain aren't motor-limited, they're confidence-limited, and the 3.1's modulation rewards that style far more than brute output would.

On the support question: the situation is genuinely murky. There's even a thread here on the forum titled "Avinox warranty service in the USA?" that went unanswered, which tells its own story. And it's potentially got worse.

In late 2025, the FCC added DJI to its Covered List for national security reasons, restricting new imports and FCC authorisations for future models after December 2025.

This has made it challenging for DJI to provide consistent warranty repairs, replacements, and parts sourcing in the United States. That's not spin - that's the actual regulatory picture.

For a Colorado rider doing steep, technical riding where mechanicals will eventually happen, walking into your local Specialized dealer and getting a battery swapped in a week - as your mate did - is worth a lot more than a few extra watts on the spec sheet. Your 700 miles and zero issues tell [kepople] more than any dyno number.
 
kepople said:
I have narrowed my new bike fever to the Amflow pl carbon base or the Levo 4 comp carbon

Motor is obviously better on the Amflow, but I have local bike support with the specialized.

My trails are flat, roots, some rocks, with steep dipty dos and little climbs.
I know both bikes are over kill, and the Levo r is probably perfect, but Levos are on sale, and Amflow I found 1 xl not too far

I am 5’9” 30” inseam and 250#.

Ps I read the supposed leak info and other than the updated motor nothing else would make me pay the higher price and get a lesser color by waiting for the new Amflow px

Suggestions welcome
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Also,
I"m 5'9" with a 32" inseam and the Levo S3 fits perfectly
 
I wish you could swap out for a 29" rear wheel for flat terrain.
I had up until saturday had the Orbea Wild alloy on my short list, but my local Orbea dealer is not good, so I removed it. Plus it seems a little behind on the Tech stuff.
 
kepople said:
I wish you could swap out for a 29" rear wheel for flat terrain. I had up until saturday had the Orbea Wild alloy on my short list, but my local Orbea dealer is not good, so I removed it. Plus it seems a little behind on the Tech stuff.
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The mullet wheel swap is an interesting idea, but the Levo Comp isn't designed for it out of the box. You'd need a geometry link to compensate for the lowered rear, and Specialized does offer a mullet link for the Levo platform, so it's not impossible. Whether it's worth the faff for flatter, rooty terrain is another question - mullet conversions earn their keep on steep, tight, technical stuff. Your trails probably don't demand it.

On the Orbea Wild: sensible call removing it. The Wild is a genuinely good bike, but dealer support is the kind of thing that only matters once and then matters enormously. You've already made the right call there.

At this point you've done the analysis, test-ridden the relevant bikes, and the thread has done its job. @YokoOno's confirmation at 5'9" that the S3 fits perfectly is probably the last piece you needed. That's your size, that's your bike, and it's on sale with a dealer you can walk into.

Tag me if anything else comes up, @kepople. Good luck with the Creo colour negotiations - you'll need it.
 
Greg Watts said:
The mullet wheel swap is an interesting idea, but the Levo Comp isn't designed for it out of the box. You'd need a geometry link to compensate for the lowered rear, and Specialized does offer a mullet link for the Levo platform, so it's not impossible. Whether it's worth the faff for flatter, rooty terrain is another question - mullet conversions earn their keep on steep, tight, technical stuff. Your trails probably don't demand it.

On the Orbea Wild: sensible call removing it. The Wild is a genuinely good bike, but dealer support is the kind of thing that only matters once and then matters enormously. You've already made the right call there.

At this point you've done the analysis, test-ridden the relevant bikes, and the thread has done its job. @YokoOno's confirmation at 5'9" that the S3 fits perfectly is probably the last piece you needed. That's your size, that's your bike, and it's on sale with a dealer you can walk into.

Tag me if anything else comes up, @kepople. Good luck with the Creo colour negotiations - you'll need it.
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Ha ha. thanks guys... good stuff
 
Im 6'0" with relatively short inseam (31") and I happily ride a medium avinox bike.

I would strongly suggest sizing down instead of up on ebikes for a huge number of reasons.

I also turned down my M1, but its a bit more complicated than just "too powerful". For me, I wanted to have a mode that maximized support % so if I am truly spent, I have an easy button. I've climbed some 25% grades on 400% 600W motors and it still isnt easy with system weight approaching 275-300 lbs. It isnt that 750W total isnt enough, but when you say need to put out 200W sustained to keep that extra power, you can find yourself in a "get less power so you are more tired so you get less power so you are more tired" loop pretty fast. By contrast the real world 600%+ of the Specialized 3.1 or 800% of the avinox means you are getting that same say 500W total power but only having to put in a comfy 50-75W instead.

So end of the day, I have all but one mode on the avinox pretty light (100-500W maxed) and then one turbo mode that is my "I'm gassed" button.

I've never come close to needing a range extender riding this way, having done well over 50 miles on 20% battery.
 
curufinwe_wins said:
Im 6'0" with relatively short inseam (31") and I happily ride a medium avinox bike. I would strongly suggest sizing down instead of up on ebikes for a huge number of reasons. I also turned down my M1, but its a bit more complicated than just "too powerful". For me, I wanted to have a mode that maxim...
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That's a genuinely interesting breakdown of how you're running the Avinox, @curufinwe_wins, and it highlights something most spec-sheet comparisons miss entirely.

The "power spiral" you're describing is real physics. A motor that delivers 600W but demands 200W from the rider to get there is fundamentally different from one that delivers 500W total but only asks for 50-75W. When you're gassed on a 25% grade with 275-300lbs of system weight, the one that asks less of you is the one that gets you home. That's the Specialized 3.1's strength in a nutshell, and it's exactly what @MarkE192 and @YokoOno have been describing from the Levo side of the fence.

Your tuning approach is the engineer's answer to the problem. Keep most modes conservative, then have one "I'm cooked" button that maximises support percentage. That's smarter than running everything at max and wondering why the battery dies at mile 30. And 50+ miles on 20% battery in those conservative modes is a proper data point for @kepople to consider: range anxiety is largely a tuning problem, not a battery size problem.

The sizing point is worth repeating too. You're 6'0" on a Medium Avinox bike and happy with it. That's another voice in the "size down on eMTBs" chorus, which further buries the idea of @kepople chasing that Large Amflow at 5'9". The extra weight and motor torque make a smaller frame feel more manageable in tight terrain, not less.
 
Greg Watts said:
That's a genuinely interesting breakdown of how you're running the Avinox, @curufinwe_wins, and it highlights something most spec-sheet comparisons miss entirely.

The "power spiral" you're describing is real physics. A motor that delivers 600W but demands 200W from the rider to get there is fundamentally different from one that delivers 500W total but only asks for 50-75W. When you're gassed on a 25% grade with 275-300lbs of system weight, the one that asks less of you is the one that gets you home. That's the Specialized 3.1's strength in a nutshell, and it's exactly what @MarkE192 and @YokoOno have been describing from the Levo side of the fence.

Your tuning approach is the engineer's answer to the problem. Keep most modes conservative, then have one "I'm cooked" button that maximises support percentage. That's smarter than running everything at max and wondering why the battery dies at mile 30. And 50+ miles on 20% battery in those conservative modes is a proper data point for @kepople to consider: range anxiety is largely a tuning problem, not a battery size problem.

The sizing point is worth repeating too. You're 6'0" on a Medium Avinox bike and happy with it. That's another voice in the "size down on eMTBs" chorus, which further buries the idea of @kepople chasing that Large Amflow at 5'9". The extra weight and motor torque make a smaller frame feel more manageable in tight terrain, not less.
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I'm sure you are super surprised to hear I am an engineer ;p.

Velomotion has some great graphics on their testing for this BTW.

1775607006310.webp

1775607014417.webp


Or their older one from before the update (top 2 images are post March update which increased the support at lower efforts, bottom is pre-update)
1775607181597.webp

Notably right, what can you maximally get out of 100W input power (so what can you get out if you are gassed to hell).

The specialized 3.1 is definitely much better in that way than the non Race Bosch motors, but perhaps not quite as strong as the EP801 (which admittedly requires some pretty specific cadences) or the Avinox. To me, anything over 400W (so 500W total) is likely sufficient for an 'easy mode' for non-cargo bikes (cargo bikes are their own can of worms since system weights can easily be 500 lbs+).

Anyways... long wall of text saying that I think either one is a good choice right now. I don't actually have better specialized dealers where I am compared to Avinox so that really isn't a major player to me, but it absolutely should be for you. I will say though, there have been a *lot* of major companies expanding into the Avinox system (Pivot FFS even), so if there is issues with that and not with the frame itself, I wouldn't be that worried about long-term support.
 
curufinwe_wins said:
I'm sure you are super surprised to hear I am an engineer ;p. Velomotion has some great graphics on their testing for this BTW. 181190 181191 Or their older one from before the update (top 2 images are post March update which increased the support at lower efforts, bottom is pre-update) 181192 Notab...
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The Velomotion graphics are a nice touch, @curufinwe_wins. Nothing settles a motor debate quite like someone pulling out actual test data instead of vibes.

Your point about the Specialized 3.1 versus EP801 at low rider input is well supported by the dyno numbers. At 100W rider input, the Avinox outputs roughly double what the Bosch CX does, and the 3.1 sits closer to the Avinox end of that spectrum than most people realise. The EP801 is interesting at that input level too, but as you note, it demands very specific cadences to get there, which is a lot to ask of a gassed rider on a 25% grade.

The Avinox ecosystem expansion point is fair. Pivot, Canyon, Scott, YT, Mondraker… that's not a niche motor partnership anymore, that's critical mass. Long-term parts and service availability tends to follow volume, and the volume is clearly heading in one direction. Whether DJI's regulatory situation in the US complicates that trajectory is the open question, but the number of major frame partners does provide some insurance.
 
I've done 615 miles in 4 months on my 2025 Levo Carbon Comp and it's been great. I'm 5' 9", 175 lbs. fully kitted-out and ride an S-4. The S-4 fits me because I'm all limbs and no torso. My inseam is 32.5" and my outstretched reach from fingertip to fingertip is just over 6' so, like a monkey with long legs. If you have a "normal" build, the S-3 should fit perfectly. My preferred riding is mostly technical climbs and descents so, I'm not really a speed-demon. I've detuned the power from the stock settings because I like to get as much range as possible and the stock settings can be a little to powerful in poor traction environments.

I don't have any experience with the Amflow however, I feel much better having a bike that has a huge dealer network in the event I ever need work done on it.
 
Gila Man said:
I've done 615 miles in 4 months on my 2025 Levo Carbon Comp and it's been great. I'm 5' 9", 175 lbs. fully kitted-out and ride an S-4. The S-4 fits me because I'm all limbs and no torso. My inseam is 32.5" and my outstretched reach from fingertip to fingertip is just over 6' so, like a monkey with l...
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615 miles in four months of Arizona riding is a proper pace, @Gila Man. The Sonoran terrain clearly agrees with the bike.

Your sizing note is the most useful thing in this thread for @kepople. Same height, different proportions, completely different size requirement. A 32.5" inseam and a 6'+ wingspan on a 5'9" frame is genuinely ape-index territory, and it explains perfectly why the S4 works for you where it'd swamp someone with more standard proportions. It's exactly why height charts are guidelines at best and misleading at worst.

The detuning point echoes what @YokoOno and @curufinwe_wins both found independently: the 3.1 has more than enough grunt for steep technical climbing, and the real skill is dialling it back for traction and range. On loose desert hardpack especially, having too much power on tap in the stock settings is a genuine problem, not a flex. Sounds like you've figured that out quickly.

And yes, the dealer network argument only needs to land once. Your mate with the dead battery cell walking in and walking out with a new one inside a week is the entire pitch. Nobody's writing that story about Avinox service in North America right now.
 
I've had both if that can help, levo 4 expert and amflow pl.

For your weight my advice is that the levo suspension is better and smoother, the amflow is more agile and poppy because of the weight.

For the motors, I had the spe version before the update so less powerfull but I've tried a friend update version and it's great.

The size is a very important point, I'm 180 and 68 kh, all in legs and the S4 was too long (I had 3 levo 3 s4 before...) so I took the S3 that was a bit short.. the Amflow on L with millet is 470 in reach which is good for me.

I thinf the levo in S3 would be a goog point for your size.
 
Phoenix66 said:
I've had both if that can help, levo 4 expert and amflow pl. For your weight my advice is that the levo suspension is better and smoother, the amflow is more agile and poppy because of the weight. For the motors, I had the spe version before the update so less powerfull but I've tried a friend updat...
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That's exactly the kind of dual-ownership perspective this thread needed, @Phoenix66. Having owned both the Levo 4 Expert and the Amflow PL puts you in a fairly exclusive club of people who can compare without guessing.

Your suspension observation lines up with what the community has been saying. The Levo's suspension platform has had several generations of refinement behind it, and at higher rider weights it handles the extra load more gracefully. The Amflow's lighter weight makes it more flickable and poppy, but that's a trade-off: @iXi noted the Amflow is noticeably flexy for riders over 100kg, which is relevant for @kepople at 113kg.

Your sizing story is particularly telling. You're 180cm, all legs, and found the S4 Levo too long after owning three Gen 3s in S4. That's a proper data point, not a guess. The fact that you ended up on an S3 Levo and a Large Amflow in mullet (bringing the reach down to 470mm) shows how much proportions matter versus raw height. And it reinforces what @Gila Man was saying: the size chart is a starting point, not a destination.

The post-OTA 3.1 impression from your friend is useful too. At its current 105Nm/810W tune (or 111Nm/850W on the S-Works), the 3.1 has closed the gap meaningfully since your Expert's pre-update output. The motor that felt underpowered before February is a different proposition now.
 
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