Nicolai ION-G16 EBOXX with Bafang M560

Tomblarom

Tomblarom

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So, I came across this offer, that I wasn't able to put down:
A German handcrafted CNC-machined Nicolai ebike frame from 2018 for 560€ including shipping.

- Review NICOLAI ION-G16 EBOXX 2018 – Slimmer, prettier and yet the same old same old
- First Look: Nicolai ION G16 EBOXX E14 - 14 Gänge, keine Kette, läuft
- Speedhub und Gates Carbon Drive: Nicolai ION G16 EBOXX E14 mit elektronischer Rohloff-Nabe und Riemenantrieb – eMTB-News.de

Even-though the frame geometry dates 2018, it still seems very modern and was ahead of its time back then. I highly assume this geometry performs better than most "modern" Chinese frame. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this one! Technical details can be found here: Nicolai-ION-G16-EBOXX-Tech_Sheet

Battery- and motor-interface are for Bosch (Gen 2 - Performance CX), which is certainly not an option for me! I'm going to use one of my conversion kits (like shown here) for installing a Bafang M560! 😉 Mechanically the motor fits neatly, but I need to make some custom covers. Maybe I modify the stock Bosch covers. The battery has to be custom made and I'm not sure if I'm going to make another non-removable intube battery, like I did for my Hybridizer SANN (#185 + #189) or whether I'm gonna repurpose the Bosch battery interface.

Either way, this project might take a few months, so that's all I can share for now :)

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Thats an interesting motor swap. Can you tell me more about the adapters you made? What size stock, material etc.

I am currently doing a different conversion to go from m620 to CYC X1. I am in the process of modelling the adapter in CAD. I always tend to over build things and my design is quite chunky at this stage. I have no doubts it could survive a nuke, but it is far from optomised.
 
Nice, but I think (only my opinion) it can be weak where I mark it yellow.
I think you should make one solid plate (red) on each side to connect all mounting points on one peace.
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If I'm not mistaken, the frame is configured for a Rolhoff hub gear with belt drive. Do you think it will be possible to modify it for a 12x148 hub and derailleur gear?
 
@8Grunf you might be able to replace the drop outs somehow, but I leave them and install a 3x3 135mm. Totally fine with that.
 
@ncs I used to make the plates for my conversion kits fully filled, as you are featuring. However, this completely covers the plugs and access to the cabinet. I'm using strong steel, that sufficiently adapts to the existing pattern, while still maintaining easy access to the cabinet and plugs. Ultimately 3D-printed cover parts are going to be used, to fully enclose the motor. This is not my first conversion and I have done a lot of durability testing.. 😊
 
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Nikolai make the most beautiful frames.
I was always tempted, but they were always out of my price range.

What you did is so cool.

Curious to see what drive train you will go with. Kalle has always been doing weird stuff like using a rohloff centrally as a gear box. I hope you do something insane to do this frame's heritage justice. :-P
 
@urmom My frame came with the stock belt tensioner. (This thing on it's own is a piece of engineering art! His products are incredible..!) Unfortunately I can't use a front sprocket, that is as small, as in the picture below. However I want to use the tensioner and my plan is to CNC machine a custom arm. I also have to make an adapter, to fit it onto the ISCG05 mounting interface of my Bafang M560. It requires some calculation and engineering, but ultimately I can use it with a belt. 😊

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That tensioner is wild!

Can you tell us about your choice of motor? Bafang is unknown where I live, but from what I read here they seem to be beloved by people doing DIY projects?
 
@urmom yeah I admire the tensioners, that UT / Nicolai produce. Incredible engineering goes into them.

Bafang motors are very popular in Europe. According to your location, you live in Germany. The pedelecforum.de is full of them. A classic option for DIYers, that want to convert a normal bike to an ebike, is the BBSHD. It was released almost a decade ago, but still is in production and still is the preferred selection. Compared to modern mid-drive motors, they mostly lack a torquesensor, that greatly enhances how the ride feels.
Then they released the M500 (25kmh) and M600 (45kmh), which had those sensors. Later they released the most recent M510 (M500-successor) and M560 (M600-successor), that are significantly lighter, but have the same power output.

With Bafang you can use any battery (36V, 43V, 48V, 52V) with a generic BMS. Communication is optional and you can build a pack that suits your own needs. Need to go far? Build/Buy a pack with large capacity. Need to have power? Build/Buy a pack, that has powerful cells.
I use Bafang, because they can be easily de-restricted and their replacement parts have a significantly better availability. That's an important factor, when seeking the maximum power. Things do break, due to excessive wear, but that's what fascinates me, finding the sweet spot for E-MTBs. 😉
 
Dont forget the formidable Bafang M620 (ultra). These have also been around for many years and are still more poweeful and more torquey than pretty much all other mid-drives available today.
Tomblarom said:
@urmom yeah I admire the tensioners, that UT / Nicolai produce. Incredible engineering goes into them.

Bafang motors are very popular in Europe. According to your location, you live in Germany. The pedelecforum.de is full of them. A classic option for DIYers, that want to convert a normal bike to an ebike, is the BBSHD. It was released almost a decade ago, but still is in production and still is the preferred selection. Compared to modern mid-drive motors, they mostly lack a torquesensor, that greatly enhances how the ride feels.
Then they released the M500 (25kmh) and M600 (45kmh), which had those sensors. Later they released the most recent M510 (M500-successor) and M560 (M600-successor), that are significantly lighter, but have the same power output.

With Bafang you can use any battery (36V, 43V, 48V, 52V) with a generic BMS. Communication is optional and you can build a pack that suits your own needs. Need to go far? Build/Buy a pack with large capacity. Need to have power? Build/Buy a pack, that has powerful cells.
I use Bafang, because they can be easily de-restricted and their replacement parts have a significantly better availability. That's an important factor, when seeking the maximum power. Things do break, due to excessive wear, but that's what fascinates me, finding the sweet spot for E-MTBs. 😉
Click to expand...
 
well i like my ebikes to be under 25kg, so for me it matters

an m510 which also has decent power is only 2.8kg , it all adds up

m620 is more like e-moped in my view
it is also not road legal anywhere
 
Yeah, thats why they make different models i guess.

Most eMTB riders already carry atleast an extra 5kgs on thier body, so I find it kind of funny when they need the motor to be anorexic.

And while the ultra is at the far end of the spectrum, and yes heavier than it needs to be. Many downhill and redbull riders (like the fastest guys on earth) add wieght to thier bikes specifically because the weight adds a degree of stabilty. Famously Jackson Goldstone adds approx 2kgs. Bernaud Kerr is known to add weight. Neeko mullaly uses heavy crankshafts and other such things. There were at least a few riders at the redbull urbarn downhill that also added weight, including the guy that won it. Slavik or something like that.

In my case, the added performance is appreciated more than the added weight
 
Another cool project, keep us updated!
bram.biesiekierski said:
Most eMTB riders already carry atleast an extra 5kgs on thier body, so I find it kind of funny when they need the motor to be anorexic.

And while the ultra is at the far end of the spectrum, and yes heavier than it needs to be. Many downhill and redbull riders (like the fastest guys on earth) add wieght to thier bikes specifically because the weight adds a degree of stabilty. Famously Jackson Goldstone adds approx 2kgs. Bernaud Kerr is known to add weight. Neeko mullaly uses heavy crankshafts and other such things. There were at least a few riders at the redbull urbarn downhill that also added weight, including the guy that won it. Slavik or something like that.

In my case, the added performance is appreciated more than the added weight
Click to expand...
These guys also don't have to lug around their own bike. I am decently strong, but even I struggle to throw around a 30kg ebike.
 
El Topo said:
Another cool project, keep us updated!

These guys also don't have to lug around their own bike. I am decently strong, but even I struggle to throw around a 30kg ebike.
Click to expand...
Yeah, lifting the bike on and off the ute isnt great. But i manage. I always take the battery out and that makes it pretty easy to lift. And its not like putting the bike on and off the ute twice per ride is exactly crippling exertion.
 
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