Magura MT5 just won’t stop, recommendations?

I have some Magura MT5 brakes that came on my Husky HC1, when new they were ferocious stoppers, I had to run the softest tread compound to prevent sliding the back tire going into every berm with only slight lever pressure.
Over time they have become incapable of doing such, I’ve swapped pads, brand new discs married to brand new pads, MT7 pads, and can’t seem to get anything decent. I did run into and issue that the Husky suspension loosened the banjo fitting on the caliper during cycling through the stroke, contaminating the first pads and discs. I’ve pretty much determined you cannot resurrect pads and discs that have been lubricated by mineral oil, heat, soapy wash with Dawn dishwashing detergent, bead blasting discs, nothing has returned that original bite I had.
I can bleed the system and get a wonderful firm lever , no mushiness at all. Every once in awhile I loose that and have to rebleed. Originally blamed the banjo bolt loosening but now I routinely check it before rides. Could I have damaged the master in some way by pushing back the pistons without opening the port at the master cylinder? I may have done that early on during my first pad change. But lever does always bleed up as firm as any Magura I’ve had and stays that way for several rides.
I feel that I am actually done with self lubricating brakes, but really don’t want to just pitch these brakes that were so incredibly strong from day one.
My front brake does well, occasionally has either lost bite or developed squeals but I’ve been able to get it working acceptable, but maybe not as strong as originally was.

Considering my options:
Replacing master cylinders with Original MT5 Magura
Shigura setup if I can verify that caliper banjo loosening is no longer occurring.
Maven Base as they have ferrule connection at caliper preventing unwanted loosening, but still self lubricating brakes.
Dominions, with a rerouted brake hose to eliminate suspension torque on the banjo bolt. Bonus here is DOT cleans up so nicely with water, and the water splash on hot brakes makes them really strong.
If your car or motorcycle had brakes that were 1/10 as maintenance intensive as freakin’ bikes there would be mega class action lawsuits everywhere!

I think it would be cheaper/easier/better to replace the whole brake. MT5's are a great and inexpensive brake with loads of power.
If you want them to give you more control, change the levers to the HC3 version, you can change the amount of pressure going to the calliper.

Who’s There said:

I have some Magura MT5 brakes that came on my Husky HC1, when new they were ferocious stoppers, I had to run the softest tread compound to prevent sliding the back tire going into every berm with only slight lever pressure.
Over time they have become incapable of doing such, I’ve swapped pads, brand new discs married to brand new pads, MT7 pads, and can’t seem to get anything decent. I did run into and issue that the Husky suspension loosened the banjo fitting on the caliper during cycling through the stroke, contaminating the first pads and discs. I’ve pretty much determined you cannot resurrect pads and discs that have been lubricated by mineral oil, heat, soapy wash with Dawn dishwashing detergent, bead blasting discs, nothing has returned that original bite I had.
I can bleed the system and get a wonderful firm lever , no mushiness at all. Every once in awhile I loose that and have to rebleed. Originally blamed the banjo bolt loosening but now I routinely check it before rides. Could I have damaged the master in some way by pushing back the pistons without opening the port at the master cylinder? I may have done that early on during my first pad change. But lever does always bleed up as firm as any Magura I’ve had and stays that way for several rides.
I feel that I am actually done with self lubricating brakes, but really don’t want to just pitch these brakes that were so incredibly strong from day one.
My front brake does well, occasionally has either lost bite or developed squeals but I’ve been able to get it working acceptable, but maybe not as strong as originally was.

Considering my options:
Replacing master cylinders with Original MT5 Magura
Shigura setup if I can verify that caliper banjo loosening is no longer occurring.
Maven Base as they have ferrule connection at caliper preventing unwanted loosening, but still self lubricating brakes.
Dominions, with a rerouted brake hose to eliminate suspension torque on the banjo bolt. Bonus here is DOT cleans up so nicely with water, and the water splash on hot brakes makes them really strong.
If your car or motorcycle had brakes that were 1/10 as maintenance intensive as freakin’ bikes there would be mega class action lawsuits everywhere!

Click to expand...

Who's There,

I've worked on mountain bikes for 22 years and have a lot of expereince with brakes, whether in stock or modified form. I've not heard of any mountain bike braking system which has an issue with the banjo fitting chronically loosens. If this is occurring, I think it's possible your issue is related to an improper brake hose length, or your bike frame's retention of the rear brake hose. If a brake hose is too long, this places a lot of stress/pressue on the bike frame's brake hose retention clamp, i.e. zip tie, rubber cable port clamp, etc. The clamp can have trouble holding a brake hose in place if the brake hose is applying pressure and trying to slide past the clamp. With the bike standing still, it won't appear to be an issue. However, when your rear triangle is rapidly cycling up and down, the clamp can't sufficiently hold the brake hose and it may be moving a small amount back and forth. This occillation may be acting as a lever on the banjo fitting and loosening the fitting over time. I'm not saying this is what's happening, just maybe something to look at.

Pushing pistons back into their caliper bore holes will not harm the brake levers. Thousands of mountain bikers do this every week when they perform a brake pad swap. However.....you can damage the brake levers if you use excessive pressure to collapse the pistons back into the caliper. By excessive pressure, I am referring to using some form of mechanical device to overly exert brake fluid back pressure into the brake lever. All brake levers have a spool, also known as a brake lever piston. The spool/piston contains several small o-rings. When you pull the brake lever, the spool moves in the brake lever cylinder bore and applies/pumps brake pressure to the caliper. Too much, i.e. excessive back pressure can cause an o-ring to roll out of the ring glands on the piston and they can cut or nick on the cylinder bore. If the o-ring is severely cut, you will lose all brake lever pressure. If the o-ring is nicked, you brake lever will suffer a slight lost in braking pressure due to brake fluid bleeding past the o-ring. In other words, 100% of the brake fluid is not being pumped to the caliper. I am not saying this is occuring, however it may be something you want to check.

I am not overly familiar with Magura brake lever internals. Some manufacturers offer brake piston rebuild kits. I checked Magura's website to see if a piston seal kit was available. I couldn't find anything. It may be that with Magura, you have to replace the entire brake lever? There are companies on AliExpress that sell MT5 Magura piston seal kits. I personally would not want to trust my life with off brand brake parts.







Over the years, I've used many different braking systems. I've modified brakes, brake rotors, used parts from different brands to form a system. I've had very good to mixed results. Here's my personal thought. There is a peace of mind when you chose a solid brake system that is 100% the whole of a brake manufacturer's system. Shigura works, SRAM H2S rotors with Shimano brakes works, but sometimes it's nice to have a complete dependable brake system system designed by a manufacturer and not a conglomeration of parts. However, who doesn't love to experiment, I've been there and done that.

I personally prefer mineral oil based braking systems. DOT fluid absorbs moisture from the air. Over time, the brake fluid becomes contaminated with water and becomes corrosive to brake parts. You must be hands on with bi-annual or yearly fluid replacement. I really dislike DOT fluid because it will damage paint if not immediately cleaned up. I say this from the prospective of a person who missed a small amount of SRAM brake fluid which dripped down onto my FOX fork crown. The following morning, the paint was permanently discolored.

If you do chose a new brake system, chose a system whose brake lever feels good in your hands and has a bite point and reach adjustment. Because eBikes are heavy, make sure the manufacturer offers a 2.3mm thick brake rotor. A thicker rotor will suffer less brake pad fade. I myself prefer TRP's Evo Pro brake system with a 220mm rotor up front and a 203mm off the rear. They don't offer as much sheer stopping power as Hayes Dominion or SRAM Maven, however the brake levers feel absolutely perfect in my hands and I don't suffer arm pump on technical descents.

I hope this helps you a bit.

Be safe,
Rod

Rod B. said:

Who's There,

I've worked on mountain bikes for 22 years and have a lot of expereince with brakes, whether in stock or modified form. I've not heard of any mountain bike braking system which has an issue with the banjo fitting chronically loosens. If this is occurring, I think it's possible your issue is related to an improper brake hose length, or your bike frame's retention of the rear brake hose. If a brake hose is too long, this places a lot of stress/pressue on the bike frame's brake hose retention clamp, i.e. zip tie, rubber cable port clamp, etc. The clamp can have trouble holding a brake hose in place if the brake hose is applying pressure and trying to slide past the clamp. With the bike standing still, it won't appear to be an issue. However, when your rear triangle is rapidly cycling up and down, the clamp can't sufficiently hold the brake hose and it may be moving a small amount back and forth. This occillation may be acting as a lever on the banjo fitting and loosening the fitting over time. I'm not saying this is what's happening, just maybe something to look at.

Pushing pistons back into their caliper bore holes will not harm the brake levers. Thousands of mountain bikers do this every week when they perform a brake pad swap. However.....you can damage the brake levers if you use excessive pressure to collapse the pistons back into the caliper. By excessive pressure, I am referring to using some form of mechanical device to overly exert brake fluid back pressure into the brake lever. All brake levers have a spool, also known as a brake lever piston. The spool/piston contains several small o-rings. When you pull the brake lever, the spool moves in the brake lever cylinder bore and applies/pumps brake pressure to the caliper. Too much, i.e. excessive back pressure can cause an o-ring to roll out of the ring glands on the piston and they can cut or nick on the cylinder bore. If the o-ring is severely cut, you will lose all brake lever pressure. If the o-ring is nicked, you brake lever will suffer a slight lost in braking pressure due to brake fluid bleeding past the o-ring. In other words, 100% of the brake fluid is not being pumped to the caliper. I am not saying this is occuring, however it may be something you want to check.

I am not overly familiar with Magura brake lever internals. Some manufacturers offer brake piston rebuild kits. I checked Magura's website to see if a piston seal kit was available. I couldn't find anything. It may be that with Magura, you have to replace the entire brake lever? There are companies on AliExpress that sell MT5 Magura piston seal kits. I personally would not want to trust my life with off brand brake parts.

View attachment 179764

View attachment 179765



Over the years, I've used many different braking systems. I've modified brakes, brake rotors, used parts from different brands to form a system. I've had very good to mixed results. Here's my personal thought. There is a peace of mind when you chose a solid brake system that is 100% the whole of a brake manufacturer's system. Shigura works, SRAM H2S rotors with Shimano brakes works, but sometimes it's nice to have a complete dependable brake system system designed by a manufacturer and not a conglomeration of parts. However, who doesn't love to experiment, I've been there and done that.

I personally prefer mineral oil based braking systems. DOT fluid absorbs moisture from the air. Over time, the brake fluid becomes contaminated with water and becomes corrosive to brake parts. You must be hands on with bi-annual or yearly fluid replacement. I really dislike DOT fluid because it will damage paint if not immediately cleaned up. I say this from the prospective of a person who missed a small amount of SRAM brake fluid which dripped down onto my FOX fork crown. The following morning, the paint was permanently discolored.

If you do chose a new brake system, chose a system whose brake lever feels good in your hands and has a bite point and reach adjustment. Because eBikes are heavy, make sure the manufacturer offers a 2.3mm thick brake rotor. A thicker rotor will suffer less brake pad fade. I myself prefer TRP's Evo Pro brake system with a 220mm rotor up front and a 203mm off the rear. They don't offer as much sheer stopping power as Hayes Dominion or SRAM Maven, however the brake levers feel absolutely perfect in my hands and I don't suffer arm pump on technical descents.

I hope this helps you a bit.

Be safe,
Rod

Click to expand...

Life long master certified Auto mechanic, when automotive brakes are serviced we always opened the bleeder valve at the caliper before retracting pistons, for two fold reasons, one, you are pumping all the crap in to lines and calipers back into the master which can make it fail right after doing the brake job, secondly if fluid has been added due to pad wear then if you just squish the calipers back the reservoir over flows and runs out everywhere. Didnt really think there was enough volume in a bike brake system to possibly cause a issue just pushing the calipers back but realized if the system is completely full from the last bleed procedure it’s gotta go somewhere.
DOT isn’t that bad about absorption as people make it out to be, lots of cars running around with 25 year old DOT 3 in them and stopping just fine. Cars do need brake fluid replacement when running DOT4 but at every brake job is adequate. And I’d say DOT 5.1 does require more frequent fluid changes than DOT4, but I wouldn’t fret about getting in done more than yearly.
I actually had great luck with Magura Julie brakes back in the day, never any problem with those. Even had great power!
I like the feel of the Magura levers, even have a set of Hayes Stroker Ace on my fatbikes with similar design masters, like those too.
I feel that somewhere out there is a brake set that is install and ride without constant maintenance, one a year fluid flush or when pads are due should be sufficient, maintain strong stopping between service.

The rear brake line on my Husky has the hose coming out of the swing arm directly below the caliper, I excersized the rear suspension with the shock off and it definitely wrenches the hose up and down at the banjo fitting. If I shift to another brake I will run the brake hose externally either along the seat stay or outside of the Chainstay and give it a more gentle curve to the caliper.

Who’s There said:

Life long master certified Auto mechanic, when automotive brakes are serviced we always opened the bleeder valve at the caliper before retracting pistons, for two fold reasons, one, you are pumping all the crap in to lines and calipers back into the master which can make it fail right after doing the brake job, secondly if fluid has been added due to pad wear then if you just squish the calipers back the reservoir over flows and runs out everywhere. Didnt really think there was enough volume in a bike brake system to possibly cause a issue just pushing the calipers back but realized if the system is completely full from the last bleed procedure it’s gotta go somewhere.
DOT isn’t that bad about absorption as people make it out to be, lots of cars running around with 25 year old DOT 3 in them and stopping just fine. Cars do need brake fluid replacement when running DOT4 but at every brake job is adequate. And I’d say DOT 5.1 does require more frequent fluid changes than DOT4, but I wouldn’t fret about getting in done more than yearly.
I actually had great luck with Magura Julie brakes back in the day, never any problem with those. Even had great power!
I like the feel of the Magura levers, even have a set of Hayes Stroker Ace on my fatbikes with similar design masters, like those too.
I feel that somewhere out there is a brake set that is install and ride without constant maintenance, one a year fluid flush or when pads are due should be sufficient, maintain strong stopping between service.

The rear brake line on my Husky has the hose coming out of the swing arm directly below the caliper, I excersized the rear suspension with the shock off and it definitely wrenches the hose up and down at the banjo fitting. If I shift to another brake I will run the brake hose externally either along the seat stay or outside of the Chainstay and give it a more gentle curve to the caliper.

Click to expand...

Who's There,

Also a mechanic myself. I was a heavy equipment mechanic for Caterpillar, but I am now retired. You are correct, in many environments, performing an annual flush on a DOT 5.1 mountain bike brake system is sufficient. There are many places across Europe, or let's say the the Pacific Northwest, where it rains on almost a daily basis or, it's possible to have a person who washes their bike after every ride. In these types of situations the brakes are exposed to a lot of water and six months would be a more optimum rate for replacing DOT 5.1 fluid.

Bicycle manufacturers such as SRAM, use a teflon polymer sleeved brake hose on their DOT systems. There is a higher rate of moisture absorbtion as opposed to the automotive world which uses a double walled steel brake line. Further, the caliper piston seals used on mountain bike brake calipers are less robust at sealing as opposed to the automotive industry. On the other hand, I've met people who were proud of the fact they have never changed the brake fluid on their bikes so there's always that. Personal choice, ya know.

You want your brakes to work....

Captain Ahab, Moab Utah


Portal, Moab Utah


Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane Utah


Church Rocks, Saint George Utah on my Amish bike


Regarding your quest for a simpler and more maintenance free brake system. There really isn't anything more maintenance free than the Shimano XT braking system.

My very first eMTB, 2021 Orbea Rise with Shimano XT wiyth 203mm XT Icetech rotors front and rear. 100%, uterly dependable system.


Jagged Axe, Glorieta Camps, New Mexico


Mount Nebo, Dardanelle Arkansas


Shimano braking systems work, day in and day out with no complaints. It's an easy system to set up, very robust and requires very little maintenance. You may ask, why aren't you using them? Great point....

All mountain bike brake systems have weaknesses and strengths. I've yet to find perfect. Some riders prefer brakes which are powerful and have an "Instant on" feel to them such as Shimano. Others prefer a brake with more supple braking action with braking pressure which can be finessed. Some brake systems can accommodate 1.8mm rotors and others can accomodate 2.3mm thick rotors. Terrain will always play a factor in choice. For my type of technical riding, I prefer a brake which is slightly less powerful, but has excellent lever feel, that's my ticket. I can always manipute braking power via the size of my brake rotors.

Brake rotor selection is hugely important when it comes to eMTB riding. Full power eMTB's are heavy. When you do pull the trigger on a new brake system, insure the brake caliper can accomodate a 2.3mm thick rotor. My buddy and I currently ride Pivot Shuttle AM's. He formerly rode a Santa Cruz Heckler with Magura MT-7 brakes. When he switched to the new bike, he installed TRP Evo Pro brakes and is very happy. TRP brakes require little maintenance and they offer a 2.3mm thick brake rotor which absorbs heat better than the industry standard 1.8mm thick brake rotor. SRAM and several other brake component manufacturers now offer a 2.0mm thick brake rotor. The is an excellent upgrade to any eMTB with a brake system caliper which cannot accomodate a 2.3mm thick brake rotor.

Didn’t know that about the brake hoses. I actually have a set of 10 year old Tektro brakes on my road bike that I’ve never touched, doesn’t get anything like mtb usage but they have never varied since the very first stop, definitely considering TRP DH also. I have to fight myself from putting the Tektro on my fatbike, gotta leave well enough alone…
If moisture is permeating the brake hoses then wouldn’t it pool in the low spots of mineral oil systems? Again, an argument for DOT fluids as they still function with a percentage of water in them just with lower boiling point until saturated, I’m not locked in on either fluid for sure. Maybe if I used mineral oil brakes other than Magura I would be happy. Super tempted to swap out just the Masters and see what happens.
I am just confused why I have to death grip to get any decent brake action going at all. I stuck on a MT4 caliper I had around and I can skid the wheel now, but still requires very hard pull on the lever to accomplish that. I think I might test it by pulling the lever hard with the bleed cup installed to see if there is recirculating going on.

Rod B. said:

Who's There,

Also a mechanic myself. I was a heavy equipment mechanic for Caterpillar, but I am now retired. You are correct, in many environments, performing an annual flush on a DOT 5.1 mountain bike brake system is sufficient. There are many places across Europe, or let's say the the Pacific Northwest, where it rains on almost a daily basis or, it's possible to have a person who washes their bike after every ride. In these types of situations the brakes are exposed to a lot of water and six months would be a more optimum rate for replacing DOT 5.1 fluid.

Bicycle manufacturers such as SRAM, use a teflon polymer sleeved brake hose on their DOT systems. There is a higher rate of moisture absorbtion as opposed to the automotive world which uses a double walled steel brake line. Further, the caliper piston seals used on mountain bike brake calipers are less robust at sealing as opposed to the automotive industry. On the other hand, I've met people who were proud of the fact they have never changed the brake fluid on their bikes so there's always that. Personal choice, ya know.

You want your brakes to work....

Captain Ahab, Moab Utah
View attachment 179801

Portal, Moab Utah
View attachment 179807

Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane Utah
View attachment 179802

Church Rocks, Saint George Utah on my Amish bike
View attachment 179804

Regarding your quest for a simpler and more maintenance free brake system. There really isn't anything more maintenance free than the Shimano XT braking system.

My very first eMTB, 2021 Orbea Rise with Shimano XT wiyth 203mm XT Icetech rotors front and rear. 100%, uterly dependable system.
View attachment 179811

Jagged Axe, Glorieta Camps, New Mexico
View attachment 179813

Mount Nebo, Dardanelle Arkansas
View attachment 179814

Shimano braking systems work, day in and day out with no complaints. It's an easy system to set up, very robust and requires very little maintenance. You may ask, why aren't you using them? Great point....

All mountain bike brake systems have weaknesses and strengths. I've yet to find perfect. Some riders prefer brakes which are powerful and have an "Instant on" feel to them such as Shimano. Others prefer a brake with more supple braking action with braking pressure which can be finessed. Some brake systems can accommodate 1.8mm rotors and others can accomodate 2.3mm thick rotors. Terrain will always play a factor in choice. For my type of technical riding, I prefer a brake which is slightly less powerful, but has excellent lever feel, that's my ticket. I can always manipute braking power via the size of my brake rotors.

Brake rotor selection is hugely important when it comes to eMTB riding. Full power eMTB's are heavy. When you do pull the trigger on a new brake system, insure the brake caliper can accomodate a 2.3mm thick rotor. My buddy and I currently ride Pivot Shuttle AM's. He formerly rode a Santa Cruz Heckler with Magura MT-7 brakes. When he switched to the new bike, he installed TRP Evo Pro brakes and is very happy. TRP brakes require little maintenance and they offer a 2.3mm thick brake rotor which absorbs heat better than the industry standard 1.8mm thick brake rotor. SRAM and several other brake component manufacturers now offer a 2.0mm thick brake rotor. The is an excellent upgrade to any eMTB with a brake system caliper which cannot accomodate a 2.3mm thick brake rotor.

View attachment 179816

View attachment 179817

Click to expand...

Which diameter and thickness rotors do you have front and rear on your Pivot Shuttle AM?

The master cylinder piston is available for a reasonable price from Amazon. I’ve ordered several and so have others in my circle.
A good time to install a new master cylinder piston is when you upgrade to the HC3 lever. They seem to actuate the piston a little better …which gives better results. I like the adjustability also. (Warning; these levers are stupid expensive).

Stihldog said:

The master cylinder piston is available for a reasonable price from Amazon. I’ve ordered several and so have others in my circle.
A good time to install a new master cylinder piston is when you upgrade to the HC3 lever. They seem to actuate the piston a little better …which gives better results. I like the adjustability also. (Warning; these levers are stupid expensive).

Click to expand...

I have a set of MT4 Magura on a fatbike, I might try all the masters one at a time on the MT5, surly I haven’t blown them all out. If any of them restores the stopping it might be worthwhile to rebuild the MT5 masters. Temptation is still to experience Shigura setup though. Stock lever shape isn’t a problem for me. If I could just restore the original brake strength.
I have to squeeze the levers so hard just to get a little brake drag effect it makes my fork feel like it’s beating me up, you can’t flow with the chop with tense forearms.

irie said:

Which diameter and thickness rotors do you have front and rear on your Pivot Shuttle AM?

Click to expand...

Irie,

How are you doing? I haven't spoken to you in a while. TRP makes two types of 2.3mm thickness brake rotors for the EVO brake series.

The older style TRP brake system, DH-R EVO, initially used the "RS01E" 2.3mm thick brake rotor. At a later date, a newer style 2.3mm thick rotor known as the "RS05E" race rotor was released. A short while after this, TRP released an updated EVO series of brake called the EVO-Pro. The EVO Pro featured a bite point adjustment on the lever.

On my first Pivot Shuttle AM, I ran the TRP DH-R EVO series of brake with RS01E 2.3mm thick brake rotors. I installed a 220mm rotor on the front and a 203mm brake rotor on the rear. I found the brakes to be trouble free for about 5,000 miles, after which the stainless steel sleeved caliper pistons began to develope wear grooves at the piston seals and the pistons began sticking. TRP does not offer a rebuild kit and I had to buy new replacement brake calipers. I would also note that the DH-R EVo series of brake does not have a bite point adjustment. As a work around for the lack of a bite point asdjustment, I installed Cascade Components, TRP bite point brake adjusters. The adjusters mount in place of the brake lever reservoir cover. The adjusters were very effective, but a bit fiddily.

TRP DH-R EVO Brake System


Cascade Components TRP bite point adjusters


TRP 2.3mm thick, RS01E brake rotor. Note the black dots on the rotor. These are wear indicators inset into the rotor. When the dots disappear. the brake rotor has reached minimum wear and should be replaced.

The 2026 Pivot comes with an 800Wh battery and Bosch Race motor. I chose this bike because I loved my first Shuttle AM and I wanted an increase in range and power. I find as I get older, that I tend to use more boost than I did when I was younger.

For my second Shuttle, I installed TRP EVO-PRO brakes with RS05E, Race rotors. I installed a 2.3mm thick 220mm rotor on the front and a 2.3mm thick 203mm rotor on the rear.

The difference between the DH-R EVO and EVo-PRO systems lies in the brake lever assemblies. The EVO-PRO, now has a bite point adjustment, a larger reservoir and a more ergonomic brake lever which feels and operates absolutely perfect. Note that the brake calipers are the same for both systems.

TRP EVO-PRO


TRP 2.3mm thick, RS05E Race Rotor




In the past, I've bought components which the manufacturer touted as having a boost in performance. After buying the item, your quickly realize that the only boost in performance was the money which left my wallet. I will say tht the new TRP EVO-PRO is an excellent brake. You can finesse this brake. In regards to the newer style Race brake rotor. It does offer better braking performance over the older style rotor. If I had to guess, I'd say it's due to all of the air holes drilled into the rotor. I believe the air holes help reduce heat by cooling the rotor and thus brake fade is greatly reduced. They work 10% better than the older style brake rotors...I crack myself up....

If I could add one last thing. TRP EVO-PRO brakes offer a slight increase in braking power over Shimano. However, they are not as powerful as SRAM Mavens or Hayes Dominion. If as a rider you want raw stopping power, this is not your brake. On the other hand, the brake lever action on the EVO-Pro is exceptional. I'll take a well designed brake lever over sheer power. As I stated previously, I can manipulate stopping power with an increase in rotor size.

I hope you find this useful,

Be safe
Rod

Who’s There said:

I have a set of MT4 Magura on a fatbike, I might try all the masters one at a time on the MT5, surly I haven’t blown them all out. If any of them restores the stopping it might be worthwhile to rebuild the MT5 masters. Temptation is still to experience Shigura setup though. Stock lever shape isn’t a problem for me. If I could just restore the original brake strength.
I have to squeeze the levers so hard just to get a little brake drag effect it makes my fork feel like it’s beating me up, you can’t flow with the chop with tense forearms.

Click to expand...

The rebuilding is basically an alloy piston and 3 rubber seals.

The rebuild kit is available on Amazon for $6-$12. I usually keep a spare.
Usually a full bleed is necessary after installing. A lever bleed may not be enough.

Clean your calliper pistons and rotate your callipers, especially the rear one, to eliminate any trapped air.
I hope this works for you.

Who’s There said:

I have a set of MT4 Magura on a fatbike, I might try all the masters one at a time on the MT5, surly I haven’t blown them all out. If any of them restores the stopping it might be worthwhile to rebuild the MT5 masters. Temptation is still to experience Shigura setup though. Stock lever shape isn’t a problem for me. If I could just restore the original brake strength.
I have to squeeze the levers so hard just to get a little brake drag effect it makes my fork feel like it’s beating me up, you can’t flow with the chop with tense forearms.

Click to expand...

I’m not familiar with the MT4’s.
MT5, 7 and 8 only. It seems as though the master cylinder is basically the same on the 5-7 and 8.

Side note; Inorder to balance the braking force, I use a 220mm rotor for the front wheel and 203mm for the rear wheel. I get less rear wheel drag that way when I’m braking.

It looks like it might be worth a try to rebuild the master cylinders then. I will order a couple of kits, a 25$ fix sure beats 600$ for new brakes and definitely worth the slight gamble. If power comes back after rebuild then maybe new pads and discs to get them to top notch again. I had not really researched availability of rebuild kits as I always thought of Magura brakes as disposable.
Now that I think of it, I wore out the first set of rear pads pretty quickly and went to MT7 pads for ease of service and never had the power again after that, the possibility that I damaged the masters right then when I pushed the caliper pistons back is very real.

Who’s There said:

It looks like it might be worth a try to rebuild the master cylinders then. I will order a couple of kits, a 25$ fix sure beats 600$ for new brakes and definitely worth the slight gamble. If power comes back after rebuild then maybe new pads and discs to get them to top notch again. I had not really researched availability of rebuild kits as I always thought of Magura brakes as disposable.
Now that I think of it, I wore out the first set of rear pads pretty quickly and went to MT7 pads for ease of service and never had the power again after that, the possibility that I damaged the masters right then when I pushed the caliper pistons back is very real.

Click to expand...

The MT5's are really cheap here in the EU - you can get a fully set (front and rear) for under € 140 - or just the front for € 70: Magura MT5 Scheibenbremse | Zweirad Stadler

If it's that cheap in the US too, I would just get a new one.

I absolutely hate Magura brakes. I've had several sets fail, their bleed process is ridiculous, and all that plastic is absurd.

If you want powerful brakes with a lot of bite, but very low maintenance, this is what your want:

- Shimano 420 calipers. They have resin pistons which are less prone to problems and use a more robust barb/olive system to connect the brake hose.

- Shimano Deore Servo Wave levers. These cost about $55 each and provide excellent bite and power.

- Shimano sintered pads. Again, great power and last a long time. Don't bother with aftermarket.

- Finally, bleed the system with Red Line LikeWater if you're in the States, or Putiline HPX 2.5 if you're in Europe. The much lighter mineral oil fixes the wandering bite point Shimanos have.

Bad Mechanic said:

I absolutely hate Magura brakes. I've had several sets fail, their bleed process is ridiculous, and all that plastic is absurd.

If you want powerful brakes with a lot of bite, but very low maintenance, this is what your want:

- Shimano 420 calipers. They have resin pistons which are less prone to problems and use a more robust barb/olive system to connect the brake hose.

- Shimano Deore Servo Wave levers. These cost about $55 each and provide excellent bite and power.

- Shimano sintered pads. Again, great power and last a long time. Don't bother with aftermarket.

- Finally, bleed the system with Red Line LikeWater if you're in the States, or Putiline HPX 2.5 if you're in Europe. The much lighter mineral oil fixes the wandering bite point Shimanos have.

Click to expand...

I can’t explain why my Magura MT7 need a regular lever bleed or why the Magura (MD…something) rotors can sound like a tambourine sometimes (likely rivots during the assembly process) during an aggressive downhill ride.

But there are pros and cons to every make of mountain bike brakes. I have a few likes and dislikes for most brake systems.

I prefer the modulation and feel of the MT7’s or MT8’s. I don’t mind the extra lever bleeding that they require. I make that process part of my regular maintenance. Takes me about 10-15 minutes to do a lever bleed …maybe less time.

I watch a few bubbles rise into the funnel. Some large, then eventually small, then no more bubbles. Usually that is good for 2-3-4 months. Where that air comes from in a closed hydraulic brake system is a mystery to me. (And I’ve heard several theories).

My next brake upgrade is Trick Stuff…in my next life …when I’m rich.

I've got MT5s on one of my bikes, its a Cube Reaction. I wouldn't have them out of choice because of the 'plastic' components, but they are OK and with the right pads (I find resin to be best for me) the braking is excellent. I've rebuilt the master cylinders using Ali Express pistons and seals, they are every bit as good as the originals - both of which failed at under 3 years. I've also replaced - several times - the lever fixing clamps which break if you put even slightly more torque on the torx fixings than the manual says. My other 2 ebikes both have shimano........ ive never had to do any rebuilding or part replacement on them which says a lot!!

paulg-mans said:

I've got MT5s on one of my bikes, its a Cube Reaction. I wouldn't have them out of choice because of the 'plastic' components, but they are OK and with the right pads (I find resin to be best for me) the braking is excellent. I've rebuilt the master cylinders using Ali Express pistons and seals, they are every bit as good as the originals - both of which failed at under 3 years. I've also replaced - several times - the lever fixing clamps which break if you put even slightly more torque on the torx fixings than the manual says. My other 2 ebikes both have shimano........ ive never had to do any rebuilding or part replacement on them which says a lot!!

Click to expand...

Regarding the Magura bar clamp; I’m not sure of the torque settings for those screws but I don’t tighten them up much. I allow the master cylinder body to rotate around the bar with a gentle twist of one hand.

In the event of a crash, the levers may spin or rotate thus preventing any possible damage. I close the gap on the top screw/clamp and tighten and adjust the lower screw …allowing for the master cylinder and lever to still spin on the bar with some hand force (if that makes sense?).closing the top gap also prevents any debris from settling in there.

I will report on the repair once I get the rebuild kits,Amazon originally showed over night delivery on them, but after I clicked buy that shifted to Thursday So I will likely just do the rebuild next weekend.

Who’s There said:

I have some Magura MT5 brakes that came on my Husky HC1, when new they were ferocious stoppers, I had to run the softest tread compound to prevent sliding the back tire going into every berm with only slight lever pressure.
Over time they have become incapable of doing such, I’ve swapped pads, brand new discs married to brand new pads, MT7 pads, and can’t seem to get anything decent. I did run into and issue that the Husky suspension loosened the banjo fitting on the caliper during cycling through the stroke, contaminating the first pads and discs. I’ve pretty much determined you cannot resurrect pads and discs that have been lubricated by mineral oil, heat, soapy wash with Dawn dishwashing detergent, bead blasting discs, nothing has returned that original bite I had.
I can bleed the system and get a wonderful firm lever , no mushiness at all. Every once in awhile I loose that and have to rebleed. Originally blamed the banjo bolt loosening but now I routinely check it before rides. Could I have damaged the master in some way by pushing back the pistons without opening the port at the master cylinder? I may have done that early on during my first pad change. But lever does always bleed up as firm as any Magura I’ve had and stays that way for several rides.
I feel that I am actually done with self lubricating brakes, but really don’t want to just pitch these brakes that were so incredibly strong from day one.
My front brake does well, occasionally has either lost bite or developed squeals but I’ve been able to get it working acceptable, but maybe not as strong as originally was.

Considering my options:
Replacing master cylinders with Original MT5 Magura
Shigura setup if I can verify that caliper banjo loosening is no longer occurring.
Maven Base as they have ferrule connection at caliper preventing unwanted loosening, but still self lubricating brakes.
Dominions, with a rerouted brake hose to eliminate suspension torque on the banjo bolt. Bonus here is DOT cleans up so nicely with water, and the water splash on hot brakes makes them really strong.
If your car or motorcycle had brakes that were 1/10 as maintenance intensive as freakin’ bikes there would be mega class action lawsuits everywhere!

Click to expand...

For those following this thread. I woke up this morning, grabbed a cup of coffee and checked my emails. One of the emails was a link to a Pinkbike video released several days ago. The video is titled "The Biggest Brake Test Pinbike Has Ever Done."

In the video, Pinkbike does a great job reviewing each of the major brake systems on the market. I think those following this thread will enjoy the video. The methods Pinkbike employs to test each brake system are interesting and humerous at times. It's actually a really good video. I enjoyed the Pinkbike test crew's commentary as each brake system was tested on a bit of nasty Squamish trail. The main takeaway from the video is that most systems are very good, but some systems stand out more than others due to brake lever funtionality, i.e. ease of adjustment, hand effort required to acutate the brakes, and how reliable and consistent the braking action is.

If you've not yet seen the video, here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pink+bike+largest+brake+test

Cheers,
Rod

I’m not familiar with the Magura Gustov or the Maven. Those may be overkill for my weight.
I haven’t had much success with Shimano brake systems. (Breakage and failure). Probably just me.
Seen bad reviews for the Lewis Brake system any my son-in-law regrets installing them.
The MT7’s fit the bill for me …even though they need a bit more attention. I use Preformance Pads (OEM).

Trick Stuff …I’m not that rich yet.

All other brake systems seem to be good though. It starts to depend on lever feel and intended use. I stay away from any DOT systems.

Rod B. said:

For those following this thread. I woke up this morning, grabbed a cup of coffee and checked my emails. One of the emails was a link to a Pinkbike video released several days ago. The video is titled "The Biggest Brake Test Pinbike Has Ever Done."

In the video, Pinkbike does a great job reviewing each of the major brake systems on the market. I think those following this thread will enjoy the video. The methods Pinkbike employs to test each brake system are interesting and humerous at times. It's actually a really good video. I enjoyed the Pinkbike test crew's commentary as each brake system was tested on a bit of nasty Squamish trail. The main takeaway from the video is that most systems are very good, but some systems stand out more than others due to brake lever funtionality, i.e. ease of adjustment, hand effort required to acutate the brakes, and how reliable and consistent the braking action is.

If you've not yet seen the video, here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pink+bike+largest+brake+test

Cheers,
Rod

Click to expand...

Enjoyed their scientific testing and glad They have an endless supply of water.

It got me thinking that lever length, lever shape, rotor size, pad material, tire type, terrain and personal preferences all matter.

Starting to look like brake systems can be subjective. No wrong answer I guess.

Stihldog said:

Enjoyed their scientific testing and glad They have an endless supply of water.

It got me thinking that lever length, lever shape, rotor size, pad material, tire type, terrain and personal preferences all matter.

Starting to look like brake systems can be subjective. No wrong answer I guess.

Click to expand...

Im with you on this one. Definitely subjective. I find that the easiest thing to change - if you arent getting satisfactory brake performance and youve bled the system - is the pads. On my bikes I now use ceramic or resin, the level of noise from metallic or semi metallic is just too much for me. Brake pads are cheap from Ali Express, and easy to replace! Also......... I use a rotary wire brush on my discs. It removes the polished surface and gives a noticeable improvement in braking and reduced noise!

My issue I am having with my MT5 isn’t a “Nature of the Beast” issue, It’s there is some sort of failure in my brakes that is creating a loss of pressure situation. I suspect I damaged the master cylinders during service but they “act” normal in that they seem to bleed up and get a solid lever with minimal travel. There is no external leakage but it does occasionally lose bleed after a few rides, So I will first give a go at rebuilding the masters if the bores look good when I remove the pistons. Mainly for sciences sake to know I my hamfisted automotive techniques caused problems. I actually suspect I might have damaged all my Magura masters, I have an older set of MT4 brakes on my fatbikes that don’t stop great either. If my cheap repairs fail to bring strong stopping as originally experienced with the MT5I will then start shopping for my next brake set, with consistency my prime desire, I can adapt to the characteristics of any of the brands as long as they have reliable actuation.
Right now the front runners for me are Dominion and the TRP, I don’t mind experimenting with pads and discs if the hydraulic system responds the same every time.

Well, I Must have screwed something up in first rebuild attempt, have to try again, feels like piston isn’t uncovering replenish port, can’t push fluid back up through system. So I swapped in my old Magura MT4 masters, they are actually made out of aluminum! Scrubbed all my old pads clean, rubbed them together with water, pulled a brand new disc out of the package and…. Still requires considerable pressure to lock the wheel, and more pressure than I think is normal to create decent braking force, so now I have a new theory, the Magura Brake discs I got from jensonUSA were on sale for like 11 bucks each, so I bought 4 of them, possibly counterfeit or just a defective batch run of them sold off cheap. They are in Magura packaging and the lettering on them looks correct. MDR-C ebike discs with magnet mounting hole.
I put the bike in walk mode on the stand and drug the rear brake to get a preliminary bed in done. Result was Poor stopping. Repeated walk mode test and monitored temp with a heat gun, I can get the pads all the way to 200f but the discs never get above 70f while dragging the brake in walk mode. Maybe not a great testdon’t know.
Tried my sintered pads, unable to slide tire at all. Even weaker response. All pads and discs Magura...

Front brake stopping is actually pretty good, sintered pads, I don’t want to mess things up by swapping anything to the rear as a test.
I hesitate to order cheapy discs from Amazon, yet can’t get myself to drop $150 on quality discs that I might not get the results I imagine.
Fortunately I ain’t missing out on any riding as my back is currently screwed and always takes weeks to get over.

I’m a big fan of matching brand of disc with brand of brake, and marrying pads with disc as far as composition of pads. Careful handling of discs and pads, keeping them far away during bleeding process to avoid contamination.


Dominions are on sale, cheaper than all the alternatives. Hopefully that will be the ultimate solution.
Shame as I have been using Magura for since 1999
I won’t trash the Magura components but will put them aside and experiment with them on my fatbikes, speeds on those are so low I won’t be endangering myself with them.

Edit:
Actually been using Magura products since 1975 when I bought a set of ISDT power pull levers for my Maico 125

Who’s There said:

Well, I Must have screwed something up in first rebuild attempt, have to try again, feels like piston isn’t uncovering replenish port, can’t push fluid back up through system. So I swapped in my old Magura MT4 masters, they are actually made out of aluminum! Scrubbed all my old pads clean, rubbed them together with water, pulled a brand new disc out of the package and…. Still requires considerable pressure to lock the wheel, and more pressure than I think is normal to create decent braking force, so now I have a new theory, the Magura Brake discs I got from jensonUSA were on sale for like 11 bucks each, so I bought 4 of them, possibly counterfeit or just a defective batch run of them sold off cheap. They are in Magura packaging and the lettering on them looks correct. MDR-C ebike discs with magnet mounting hole.
I put the bike in walk mode on the stand and drug the rear brake to get a preliminary bed in done. Result was Poor stopping. Repeated walk mode test and monitored temp with a heat gun, I can get the pads all the way to 200f but the discs never get above 70f while dragging the brake in walk mode. Maybe not a great testdon’t know.
Tried my sintered pads, unable to slide tire at all. Even weaker response. All pads and discs Magura...

Front brake stopping is actually pretty good, sintered pads, I don’t want to mess things up by swapping anything to the rear as a test.
I hesitate to order cheapy discs from Amazon, yet can’t get myself to drop $150 on quality discs that I might not get the results I imagine.
Fortunately I ain’t missing out on any riding as my back is currently screwed and always takes weeks to get over.

I’m a big fan of matching brand of disc with brand of brake, and marrying pads with disc as far as composition of pads. Careful handling of discs and pads, keeping them far away during bleeding process to avoid contamination.


Dominions are on sale, cheaper than all the alternatives. Hopefully that will be the ultimate solution.
Shame as I have been using Magura for since 1999
I won’t trash the Magura components but will put them aside and experiment with them on my fatbikes, speeds on those are so low I won’t be endangering myself with them.

Click to expand...

Hmmm . I don’t know what to say. Sounds like you’re doing everything right.
The master cylinder rebuild piston has worked well for us (4bikes) . My calliper pistons are regularly serviced, cleaned, extended with a small tool, centred and perfectly aligned for different rotor sizes (220mm front and 203mm rear.

I use Magura OEM pads and rotors. Modulation seems to be consistent …but the new HC3 levers have helped a little. Only the occasional honking noise when things get really wet…but that’s only for a few seconds.

I don’t do anything special to the pads or rotors, other than brake them in properly when new.

Maybe I will just go over to Magura USA and see what we can come up with, they’re only about 60 miles away from me, but unsure if that’s just the warehouse only or if they have anyone on hand that can provide assistance. I haven’t called them yet. I will tinker with it again and see if I can fix that master.
The old MT4 masters are much higher quality, when I get back into the garage I will take a pic. New MT4 have the current master.

Is the hose kinked / damaged somewhere maybe?

The only time i locked my front wheel, was on my amflow on an ultra steep descent with the MT5.
I went back to my Saints brakes since (and no more front wheel locked).

Plus you will have Saints guarding your ride !

Hoses will be changed out, as for now replacing entire brake system, I will tinker with MT5 on my fatbikes and might be able to use them on a future build if I decide to do one.