What's important to you in your next EMTB?

jever98

jever98

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I'm curious. Those of you who already have an EMTB: if you were to buy a new EMTB, what would be on your shopping list as must have and nice to have and what would you avoid? How has this changed since you started an EMTB?

Me: currently riding a Transition Relay in 160/160 in XXL, full 29er setup in the PNW around Seattle. (quite a few steep, rocky trails). My current build aims for a compromise of weight and sturdiness (Mezzer fork, Vorsprung coil shock, carbon bars, Reserve carbon wheels, TRP brakes, Schwalbe trail front, gravity rear, X0 AXS shifting, Fazua 60).

Must have:
Bike:
* 160mm travel (seems to be my sweet spot for EMTB around here. 170 felt too slack and long on many trails. For a muscle bike I would go slightly lower than 160mm)
* Carbon frame (because of weight)
* Full 29er (I didn't care for MX at my height - too many derailleur hits and not such good rollover)
* No headset routing
* Sufficiently long - reach 515 or bigger (I'm 6'7") - limits a few companies (Forbidden, Amflow, etc.)
* Progressive leverage curve (coil and air compatible)
* Appropriate geometry, of course
* Target weight no higher than 21kg with a solid (for me) build

Motor / drive system:
* At least 60NM torque
* Motor + battery weight no more than ~4.5kg (10lbs) - I appreciate my EMTB not being super heavy
* At least 480wh battery - 550+ would be better, but keeping within the weight limit
* Easily swappable battery - I didn't use to think that was important, but I use 2 batteries in a day at times, without time to recharge
* Reliable, smooth, no rattle (Fazua is great on 2 and 3, reliability hopefully getting better)

Important but not show stoppers:
Bike:
* Frameset only option - I mostly don't care for how bikes are specced, want to do it myself
* Price - I have a hard time budgeting >$10k for a bike
* Travel adjustment options - being able to move between, say 160 and 170 is nice

Motor:
* ANT+ integration for Garmin I like tracking my workouts (rider power) and I don't want to have to use manufacturer apps
* Top tube screen (though less important with ANT+)
* Wireless mode selection button
* Coast shifting with AXS or Di2
* Cable-powered AXS or Di2 (no battery)
* No drag when not using the motor - the Relay makes a great park bike for me

Hard no:
* Headset routing
* Integrated battery
* MX only option

Overall, I'm in a happy place at the moment and if the Fazua keeps working (knock on wood), then I will keep riding it for a while. The closest I can see to my specs above is a Crestline DJI, though it would be a bit heavier and more expensive than what I want. Some of the things I appreciate about my current bike (removable battery, ability to adjust travel) I didn't have on the radar when I bought the bike.

Over to you - what is on your list and how has this changed over time?
 
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I love my full fat kenevo gen 2 with avalanche suspension, perfect geo for me

But I hate my derailleur drivetrain, and I hate range anxiety

So an upgrade for me needs a paradigm shift in either range or MGU (+30-50% range compared to now for example)

I need to be able to derestrict the MGU which is not possible with pinion, 25 km/h is great for safety in cities but not where I ride
 
Joakim said:
I love my full fat kenevo gen 2 with avalanche suspension, perfect geo for me

But I hate my derailleur drivetrain, and I hate range anxiety

So an upgrade for me needs a paradigm shift in either range or MGU (+30-50% range compare to now for example)

I need to be able to desrestrict the MGU which is not possible with pinion, 25 km/h is great for safety in cities but not where I ride
Click to expand...
What range do you get?

On steep riding (up and down) I have maxed out at 1500m vert with a 480wh battery. The other day I did a flatter ride (40km, 1200m) and finished my 430wh battery. I rarely use turbo.
 
jever98 said:
What range do you get?

On steep riding (up and down) I have maxed out at 1500m vert with a 480wh battery. The other day I did a flatter ride (40km, 1200m) and finished my 430wh battery. I rarely use turbo.
Click to expand...
I get about 2 hours of intense riding, or 3 hours of more chill riding. I dont measure stats much

I would like to be able to do a 4-6 hours ideally for full days (one can dream). But the more the merrier :)
 
I’ll be lurking on this thread as I’m of the same wants lists More or less.
At your size, and demands/wants, I’m thinking that the 21kg as well as 10k goals are gonna be the sticking points. Light, strong, cheap paradigm in play here🫤
 
Noclutch said:
I’ll be lurking on this thread as I’m of the same wants lists More or less.
At your size, and demands/wants, I’m thinking that the 21kg as well as 10k goals are gonna be the sticking points. Light, strong, cheap paradigm in play here🫤
Click to expand...
If I close one eye, squint and lie a bit to myself I made it on this one. 40% of the bike and some shopping around
 
Surprised this thread didnt take off. But it did inspire me to get a range extender for my Kenevo. 700 Wh -> 950 Wh. Already got half my dream bike?
 
Just went thru this for my third e-mtb. Hopefully I’m getting better at it… My top three, written down prior to purchase to make sure I don’t cheat:
1- Bike handling: Geometry, nimbleness, weight, fun.
2- Enough power with enough battery (minimum 85Nm and minimum 600Wh in my case)
3- Local support
 
1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost

Prices have gotten downright nutty. The bike I bought 365 days ago has gone up by 50%. I was thinking about another one but I'll shop around more...
 
jever98 said:
My plan for the 4-6h scenario is the second battery - either in the car or in my backpack. That's why I don't want a bike with an integrated battery.
Click to expand...
Have a second battery, and an Evoc Eride backpack to take the spare battery...TBH if you have two batteries just plan long rides in a figure of eight. Saves lugging it around, saves cancelling the ride via a broken back or going up in flames if you prang it. Takes a little more planning (or you can't just grab a route of Komoot or whatever) but not rocket science, and probably the best way of getting a full day in without faffing about or carrying excessive weight.
 
It's a good list OP. You're a big fella.
To get the removable battery and quiet motor you want, at this time a used Gen5 Bosch Cresty is your only option, and a really good one at that.
 
Joakim said:
I love my full fat kenevo gen 2 with avalanche suspension, perfect geo for me

But I hate my derailleur drivetrain, and I hate range anxiety

So an upgrade for me needs a paradigm shift in either range or MGU (+30-50% range compared to now for example)

I need to be able to derestrict the MGU which is not possible with pinion, 25 km/h is great for safety in cities but not where I ride
Click to expand...
Same thoughts about derailleurs. I’ve got rohloff and pinion on my two other analog bikes and I miss them on every e-bike ride.
 
Price looks colour and 700 battery. I just got another levo from Berkshire cycles again as customer service was amazing ,eight months on an̈d no issues so not regretting it so far .
 
@jever98 The Trek Fuel+ in LX (160/170mm) configuration sounds like it could be a contender. TQ 60Nm/350W peak with 580Wh battery (360Wh battery and 160Wh range extender also available). The stock LX builds are stupidly pricey, but if you want to build your own, I’d get the cheapest carbon frame option they have in the EX configuration (currently the 9.7, but I’m hoping they release a less expensive 9.5 next July) and buy the LX or MX link to bump up the travel to 160 using a 65mm stroke shock. Also has adjustable shock progression ratios from 18.0% to 24.7% and HTA of 63.4-65.0 depending on which rocker link and lower shock mount you choose. Accepts angle adjust headsets as well. 518mm reach and 674mm stack in size 2XL.
 
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- Reliable motor that can be repaired when out of warranty.

- Removable battery (solid state - yeah, I'll wait)

- Alloy frame or top quality CF

- LBS support

- No headset cabling

- No electronic stuff with batteries (other than the motor of course)

- Minimum proprietary stuff

- Absolute no to any requirement to register bike online before or during use
 
My ask would be that battery technology progresses enough to get 10hrs riding from one charge whilst also dropping weight to a total build of sub 20kgs.

Then you don't need to worry about removable batteries!
 
Plyphon said:
My ask would be that battery technology progresses enough to get 10hrs riding from one charge whilst also dropping weight to a total build of sub 20kgs.

Then you don't need to worry about removable batteries!
Click to expand...
How your talking
 
To me your requirements will ensure you will not get to enjoy the best that ebikes have to offer. Broaden your scope I say. Ebikes are not comparable to regular non pwrred bikes which you seem to be trying to mirror
 
I hope my next emtb will be of the MGU variety. I’m not in any rush to find one just yet, at the moment there’s only really two options I’m even slightly interested in. One is too expensive (the Nicolai) and the other is almost perfect (nice design and affordable for me) but is from a brand I don’t really know anything about and has a weird name (Mustache Clutch).
The downside of both bikes is they’re too heavy, yes I know the weight is central and you don’t feel it when you’re riding, but sometimes I need to be able to move my bikes around and lift them.
So I’m going to wait a generation, and if my current bike breaks I’ll probably buy something cheap until we know more about MGU V2.
 
Most important?
Realistically NOT anticipating or expecting the inevitable electronic glitch or undiagnosed system issue, requiring a trip to the dealer. Or much worse, a motor transplant- specially 25 months out from purchase.

Truly, I'm not wanting to sound like cynic, but E happens, and it's kind of like a light switch- it either works or it doesn't.
And it's more likely to be less self diagnosable, and less self fixable

And yes, E is wonderful, while it's wonderful ;)
 
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Well, i already have my ultimate current state bike and aren't upgrading anytime soon.

My spec is
carbon
Min 170mm travel
Geo 445cs, 460 reach, 63.5 hta
Progressive enough for a coil shock
Bottle mount on the frame allowing a 750mm bottle.
Mullet.
Full power 100nm min.
Swappable batteries.
Battery size options, I currently have 400wh,600wh options.
Weight max sub 23kg, ideally 20kg range.

Now future state.
Total weight cannot increase from current.

As my mates are convering to dji with 45kph cut out it would be nice to have 45kph cut out option on one mode so I can keep up on fast fire roads and when e enduro racing.

Fast charging is and alternative to battery swapping. So I would entertain a fast charging system instead of battery swap for the next bike.

I'm on my third derailleur this year so am really keen on a derailleurless system. But it has to be no extra weight penalty. Plus any mgu type system has to be as refined/eficient as current motor/derailleur systems.

Id love to get a full length 210 dropper in. Currently running 180mm.

Suspension systems. Im digging the vpp of my crestline and am looking at moving away from high pivot on my enduro bike. So likely not high pivot for the next eb. 4 bar or vpp derivatives.

Significantly higher energy density batteries for more run time less weight would be an absolute step change. If they doubled the energy density and I could get an 800wh for 2kg. That would be worth considering upgrading the bike for.
 
Plummet said:
Well, i already have my ultimate current state bike and aren't upgrading anytime soon.

My spec is
carbon
Min 170mm travel
Geo 445cs, 460 reach, 63.5 hta
Progressive enough for a coil shock
Bottle mount on the frame allowing a 750mm bottle.
Mullet.
Full power 100nm min.
Swappable batteries.
Battery size options, I currently have 400wh,600wh options.
Weight max sub 23kg, ideally 20kg range.

Now future state.
Total weight cannot increase from current.

As my mates are convering to dji with 45kph cut out it would be nice to have 45kph cut out option on one mode so I can keep up on fast fire roads and when e enduro racing.

Fast charging is and alternative to battery swapping. So I would entertain a fast charging system instead of battery swap for the next bike.

I'm on my third derailleur this year so am really keen on a derailleurless system. But it has to be no extra weight penalty. Plus any mgu type system has to be as refined/eficient as current motor/derailleur systems.

Id love to get a full length 210 dropper in. Currently running 180mm.

Suspension systems. Im digging the vpp of my crestline and am looking at moving away from high pivot on my enduro bike. So likely not high pivot for the next eb. 4 bar or vpp derivatives.

Significantly higher energy density batteries for more run time less weight would be an absolute step change. If they doubled the energy density and I could get an 800wh for 2kg. That would be worth considering upgrading the bike for.
Click to expand...
I'm curious: why mullet? I rode my Relay in mullet first and went to 29er, only noticed advantages: far fewer derailleur strikes, better roll over, seems more efficient.
 
jever98 said:
I'm curious: why mullet? I rode my Relay in mullet first and went to 29er, only noticed advantages: far fewer derailleur strikes, better roll over, seems more efficient.
Click to expand...
Rear wheel arse grind. I ride a lot of steep and drops and the rear 29 wheel gets in the way. Im 5'11, no super tall so rear wheel size and arse grind is real on super steep tech.
 
jever98 said:
I'm curious: why mullet? I rode my Relay in mullet first and went to 29er, only noticed advantages: far fewer derailleur strikes, better roll over, seems more efficient.
Click to expand...
More nimble, turns better and doesn't scratch your ass as easily.
Of course, rolling over stones and roots is worse, but that's why it's an emtb. You got the power.
 
Plummet said:
Rear wheel arse grind. I ride a lot of steep and drops and the rear 29 wheel gets in the way. Im 5'11, no super tall so rear wheel size and arse grind is real on super steep tech.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I'm 6'7, so don't have that problem luckily. The height of a transmission derailleur on a 27.5 wheel is horribly low. No wonder you've killed 3 derailleurs already.
 
Mcharza said:
More nimble, turns better and doesn't scratch your ass as easily.
Of course, rolling over stones and roots is worse, but that's why it's an emtb. You got the power.
Click to expand...
I don't really buy the more nimble. The geometry doesn't change. Sure, the wheel is a little bigger, but the contact patch is in the same place.

And on downhills it doesn't matter much that it's an emtb for the rollover, except the slightly higher system weight
 
jever98 said:
Fair enough. I'm 6'7, so don't have that problem luckily. The height of a transmission derailleur on a 27.5 wheel is horribly low. No wonder you've killed 3 derailleurs already.
Click to expand...
What you "need" is a 32/29 MX 😶‍🌫️ At 5'11, there's no way I'm going back to full 29 for our steeper PNW trails. MX is just more confident and fun for me. I accept the price of a $30 pulley cage or two each season.
 
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