2025 ZF Bike Eco System - New Motor!

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on a 'KSL chassis-like', with 500-600 Wh ultraslim battery ... wabagadoowah ! :love:

Even better : now that we have VPP (crestline) with bosch motor, what if could buy a DIY frame, buy the complete ZF kit and ...
 
Looks like a similar drive to the Intra drive and the TQ, not the best prospect for efficiency perhaps?
 
Yes. ZF is a transmission producer in the first place so it is disappointing to see that they did not design their equivalent of an MGU combined with otherwise a very compact and powerful engine. I guess I have had different expectations to yours.
 
Probably the most energy dense ebike motor ever, people still complain.

Melissa Peterman Reaction GIF by CBS
 
The batteries they are proposing with the system are the same energy density as ones in 2 year old bikes, which definitely defeats the point of the 200-300g saving on the motor.

Hopefully they will be compatible with third party battery packs
 
Missed opportunity ?? For who ?
Who told you that bike brands are rushing to get rid of current drivetrains ?
In the end, I'm sure ZF have talked to all major bike brands before developing this system and i'm gussing they didnt hear that it's a must.
I'm sure when the market will demand it,they will have a first class solution.
 
gbcoke said:
Missed opportunity ?? For who ?
Who told you that bike brands are rushing to get rid of current drivetrains ?
In the end, I'm sure ZF have talked to all major bike brands before developing this system and i'm gussing they didnt hear that it's a must.
I'm sure when the market will demand it,they will have a first class solution.
Click to expand...
Are you offended by what I said or what? Did I hurt somebody's feelings? Do I need to have exactly the same opinion as others? I say they missed the boat on this. Take it or leave it for all I care.
 
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I agree that it's somewhat disappointing (to me). If you were hoping for a 2.5kg motor (plus whatever the clamp weighs) with a great power to weight, then yes you wouldn't be disappointed. But I'm not.
I'm hoping to see the lightest possible system and ideally the lightest possible system with a central gearbox.
With FF EMTB's we had a death spiral of heavy motors with heavy batteries, necessitating heavy drivetrains, wheels, tyres, brakes, and suspension etc, so a heavier bike necessitating a bigger motor and battery to power it all, necessitating heavier tyres, brakes etc etc.

The SL format cut the power (and energy) to the bare minimum, and so allowed the use of all the existing lightweight non-e-specific parts. Since then, manufacturers have managed to keep this formula but squeeze more power out and a little more energy in (which is great).

Now with the emergence of MGU's we need the same format. Limit the power and energy to a modest level, then the gearbox can be built as lightweight as possible and result in the first SL MGU bike. THIS is what I am looking forward to.
 
Rando_12345 said:
The batteries they are proposing with the system are the same energy density as ones in 2 year old bikes, which definitely defeats the point of the 200-300g saving on the motor.

Hopefully they will be compatible with third party battery packs
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it can use other batteries :)
 
Looks like it's pretty wide but no word I have seen on the Q factor? Not a deal breaker for most but can be for others.
 
DrDexx said:
Not seen a post on the new ZF motor yet.

Here's the article. Looks impressive!

ebike-mtb.com

Exclusive first test 2025 ZF Bike Eco System – what is the new ZF ebike motor capable of?

The new ZF CentriX ebike motor boasts some very exciting facts and features. Here’s everything you need to know about it, along with our first riding impression.
ebike-mtb.com ebike-mtb.com
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Interesting….. as long as the Achilles of all e-bike motors is adequately addressed…… sealing…… a large nr of e-bike users ride outside of the Goldilocks zone that manufactures test and design their products in….. ZF should be applauded for making a high power motor in a concentric for, but a slightly larger motor with serviceable seals a maybe grease ports or a moisture sensor to indicate contamination and urgent service is required would be more beneficial…..
 
Pinion MGU on a Nicolai 26kg. Not for me. Plus added complexity with more to go wrong. Make them serviceable and lighter then it would be interesting.
 
Let's be fair gear box motors are still in there infancy
As people say they make fantastic auto transmission that I for one have three vehicles with them in
But I for one would like to try the system especially with this clutch system to save the working against the rock strikes and virtually instant pedalling
 
Straker said:
Interesting….. as long as the Achilles of all e-bike motors is adequately addressed…… sealing…… a large nr of e-bike users ride outside of the Goldilocks zone that manufactures test and design their products in….. ZF should be applauded for making a high power motor in a concentric for, but a slightly larger motor with serviceable seals a maybe grease ports or a moisture sensor to indicate contamination and urgent service is required would be more beneficial…..
Click to expand...
I agree. I think all motor manufacturers should install a moisture detector at the bottom of the circuit board and sell seal kits to anyone ( just like Rockshox and Fox do) so we can maintain our expensive purchase.
 
E-MAD MALC said:
But I for one would like to try the system especially with this clutch system to save the working against the rock strikes and virtually instant pedalling
Click to expand...
Agree, sounds clever. A clutch could also be beneficial down the line if/when they add a gearbox to the motor. Or even a dual clutch design like in cars.
 
Straker said:
Interesting….. as long as the Achilles of all e-bike motors is adequately addressed…… sealing…… a large nr of e-bike users ride outside of the Goldilocks zone that manufactures test and design their products in….. ZF should be applauded for making a high power motor in a concentric for, but a slightly larger motor with serviceable seals a maybe grease ports or a moisture sensor to indicate contamination and urgent service is required would be more beneficial…..
Click to expand...
It's oil filled and g'teed for life - might get the other manufacturers thinking!
 
AF1 said:
It's oil filled and g'teed for life - might get the other manufacturers thinking!
Click to expand...
A promising development, however the devil is in the detail! It may have a massive list of exclusions and a life definition of a few hundred hours…… if ZF’s warrantee is genuinely comprehensive then this is truly a big step forward and will shake up the market.
 
Straker said:
A promising development, however the devil is in the detail! It may have a massive list of exclusions and a life definition of a few hundred hours…… if ZF’s warrantee is genuinely comprehensive then this is truly a big step forward and will shake up the market.
Click to expand...
I think they said 30,000kms
 
Straker said:
A promising development, however the devil is in the detail! It may have a massive list of exclusions and a life definition of a few hundred hours…… if ZF’s warrantee is genuinely comprehensive then this is truly a big step forward and will shake up the market.
Click to expand...
I would like to see a promise to publish a service manual & sell all major motor parts including circuit board for design life + x years - something the major players refuse to do. Then we will know that years in the future it will be possible to fix an out of warranty motor instead of junking it.
 
Straker said:
A promising development, however the devil is in the detail! It may have a massive list of exclusions and a life definition of a few hundred hours…… if ZF’s warrantee is genuinely comprehensive then this is truly a big step forward and will shake up the market.
Click to expand...
The devil IS in the detail especially:
  • submerging in water or another liquid
1720509552335.png
 
billium said:
I would like to see a promise to publish a service manual & sell all major motor parts including circuit board for design life + x years - something the major players refuse to do. Then we will know that years in the future it will be possible to fix an out of warranty motor instead of junking it.
Click to expand...
This will never happen, ever. If anyone thinks that ZF will be this fluffy friendly teddy bear and be your best buddy with all the parts, info, manuals, what not, get off the stuff you have been smoking.

ZF will not be special in this approach. All manufacturers move towards this idea. Right to repair is a massive battle in the US. Despite all this green, eco, save the planet, be vegan, stop the oil moron BS, one more junked motor will create the need for another purchase. And it all will be because one crucial 10 pence washer cannot be changed without 250GBP service charge and additional 200GBP of other costs, or simply because they do not make these washers anymore.

These warranty ZF terms are as vague as f**k, almost all of the terms lack a clear definition.
 
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I really wonder what it may cost to buy a second hand KSL, a ZF centrix and try to mount ZF hardware on the KSL (replacing Spesh hardware, ofc). I only wish i could find a 5-600 ultra slim and dense battery to fit the downtube .. Hey, isn't mtb about dream too, after all ?
 
What do does the rumor mill say about the ZF-90 or maybe the Raymon bike since summer? I see nothing out there or real world trail reviews. I see no updates by ZF/Raymon Tarok on their websites. I guess DJI Anivox has dominated the ethernet. Or did I miss any new release news?

I think the ZF-90 compact design and potential for a compact MGU in the near future is the real game changer (although DJI wireless electronics look to set the new gold standard👀).
 
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