Motor failures?

fitlikemike said:

This is a brilliant post for solving a $h!tty problem.
It's got me to think my issue (dead bike) is maybe not the end of the world.
My M10 has been faultless for 3K and 18mnths now but today, not good. Fully charged I get power to the start button, it lights up as normal but then it turns off, repeat repeat, same same just not starting up. No go.
Looking at the diagrams and images I may just get it together and take this on myself. I suppose I should contact Orbea and ask about warranty but I just want to ride you know how it is, hassle I don't need. Who does?
Did you go out a purchase a new wiring loom? I want to do this job in a oner if I'm going to. I wonder is it as easy to fix as you say, it certainly looks that it doable.
I expect my first move should be to follow your first advice - I'll have to download the app and get the code that indicates the issue but as you rightly say it's going to be a connection somewhere that's duff.
Good post !
Cheers

Click to expand...

I thought the same as you, don't bother with warranty and fix it myself to speed things up. Several hours and £ later, it went back to the shop and came out a month later with a new motor.

My advice, open it up and check it over before you spend money on replacement parts. If you spot something obvious, great. If not, don't go too far down the rabbit hole and speak to the shop about warranty. It should be a pretty painless process even if it does take a while.

I'd also recommend getting the shimano tools for disconnecting/ reconnecting the control wires. It's easy to knacker them if you're not careful and the tools are cheap enough.

Etube app is easy enough to use to get the error. A lot of them however are generic 'sensor failure' type errors which unfortunately don't give much away when it comes to a solution.

fitlikemike said:

This is a brilliant post for solving a $h!tty problem.
It's got me to think my issue (dead bike) is maybe not the end of the world.
My M10 has been faultless for 3K and 18mnths now but today, not good. Fully charged I get power to the start button, it lights up as normal but then it turns off, repeat repeat, same same just not starting up. No go.
Looking at the diagrams and images I may just get it together and take this on myself. I suppose I should contact Orbea and ask about warranty but I just want to ride you know how it is, hassle I don't need. Who does?
Did you go out a purchase a new wiring loom? I want to do this job in a oner if I'm going to. I wonder is it as easy to fix as you say, it certainly looks that it doable.
I expect my first move should be to follow your first advice - I'll have to download the app and get the code that indicates the issue but as you rightly say it's going to be a connection somewhere that's duff.
Good post !
Cheers

Click to expand...

FitlikeMike,

The first time you drop the motor on the Rise, it will seem hard due to unfamiliarity with the process. In truth, it’s a simple process and gets much easier the more times you do it. If you follow my motor removal instructions in the posts above, you shouldn't have a problem. I would suggest that if you are not mechanically inclined, you may want to let your local shop take a look at your bike.

You'll find that your issue with the bike shutting off is going to be related to either a damaged speed sensor wire, or a bad wire connection caused by moisture and dirt build up at a connection. Do you remember those old school Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes bad, all the other light bulbs won't work? Your wiring on the Rise is similar. If any wired connection looses connectivity, anywhere on the bike, then your bike won't work. As I mentioned in my previous posts, the loss of connection typically occurs due to moisture and dirt build up at the connection. It's an easy fix, you need only clean the connections and reconnect the wires. The difficulty is determining which wire connection/plug has lost connectivity.

Start with the easy wired connections at the front of the bike first, i.e. the black junction box wired connections or if your bike has a Shimano computer, check the wire connections by removing and reinserting them back into their connection ports. If that doesn't solve the problem, check the wire connection inside the head tube/down tube by dropping the fork. If that doesn't work, you'll need to drop the motor and check the other internal frame wired connections which I detailed in my posts above.

I've found that the main plug connections at the battery and motor are your usual suspects. This is especially so after the Rise has been ridden a considerable time and the connections have had time to get dirty, corrode a little bit and lose connectivity. The speed sensor wire where it plugs into the motor can also loose connectivity due to corrosion and moisture.

Cleaning the wire contacts, both female and male, requires spraying the electrical contacts with a plastic safe electrical connection cleaner. I also like to use a soft wood toothpick as a scraper and buffer. A stiff fine tipped artist brush or a few fuzzy pipe stem cleaners are useful with scrubbing and cleaning the female contacts.

As I mentioned in my posts above, you will need some specialist tools, such as a torque wrench, chain ring locking ring removal tool and some hex wrenches.

I find that when I am checking for electrical connections on the Rise, it's useful to turn the bike frame upside down after the motor has been removed. Doing so will give you much better visual access to the wiring loom and the main connection at the battery.

I have not had the opportunity to work on a 2023/2024 Rise so I cannot comment on the connections. The 2020-2022 Rise uses a plastic horseshoe clamp to hold the main battery wired connection in place. You have to remove two small screws and the horseshoe clamp in order to unplug the harness from the battery and clean the connections.



Regarding the main wiring harness on my 2021 Rise Carbon. I tend to ride very rough rocky trails. This type of trail riding tends to cause excess vibration internally between the brake hose, dropper cable housing and wiring harness where they converge in the motor mounting shell. I initially repaired the abraded portions of the wiring harness with cloth electrician's tape. However, by the time I reached 3,200 miles on my Rise, the wiring harness had multiple rub through spots. I replaced the wiring hardness when I sold my Rise to my brother Rich. Replacing the harness is very easy, however you will need to remove the motor from the bike in order to access the connections at the power button, charging port, battery and motor.

2020-2022 Carbon Rise wiring harness


Seriously, If you or anybody else has any questions or need help, shoot me a message and I'll be happy to help you out as best I can.

Be safe,
Rod

fitlikemike said:

This is a brilliant post for solving a $h!tty problem.
It's got me to think my issue (dead bike) is maybe not the end of the world.
My M10 has been faultless for 3K and 18mnths now but today, not good. Fully charged I get power to the start button, it lights up as normal but then it turns off, repeat repeat, same same just not starting up. No go.
Looking at the diagrams and images I may just get it together and take this on myself. I suppose I should contact Orbea and ask about warranty but I just want to ride you know how it is, hassle I don't need. Who does?
Did you go out a purchase a new wiring loom? I want to do this job in a oner if I'm going to. I wonder is it as easy to fix as you say, it certainly looks that it doable.
I expect my first move should be to follow your first advice - I'll have to download the app and get the code that indicates the issue but as you rightly say it's going to be a connection somewhere that's duff.
Good post !
Cheers

Click to expand...

theremotejuggernaut said:

I thought the same as you, don't bother with warranty and fix it myself to speed things up. Several hours and £ later, it went back to the shop and came out a month later with a new motor.

My advice, open it up and check it over before you spend money on replacement parts. If you spot something obvious, great. If not, don't go too far down the rabbit hole and speak to the shop about warranty. It should be a pretty painless process even if it does take a while.

I'd also recommend getting the shimano tools for disconnecting/ reconnecting the control wires. It's easy to knacker them if you're not careful and the tools are cheap enough.

Etube app is easy enough to use to get the error. A lot of them however are generic 'sensor failure' type errors which unfortunately don't give much away when it comes to a solution.

Click to expand...

Tomorrow my bike is listed for theatres,I'm going to glove up and go first to that connection located in the head tube. My fork is just back from Silverfish UK (warrantied damper shaft replacement). Hopefully it may be a short operation but yeah I hear you - I'll just poke my nose in a little bit. Some dudes on here post incredible gen !

Rod B. said:

Shimano advised me not to use any dialectic grease or any other water proofing agent on the plugs as it could damage the connections, i.e. rubber, plastics, etc.

Click to expand...

every manufacturer lists it as plastic and rubber safe

A silicone-based grease that offers premium water repellency and protection against corrosion. Broad service temperature range of -50 to 250 °C. Safe on rubbers and plastics.

Click to expand...

and o n another manufactures website

Permatex Dielectric Tune-Up Grease is a silicone dielectric compound whose dielectric and lubricitous properties facilitate and improve tune-ups. The compound prevents voltage leakage around any electrical connector thereby insuring a strong spark in high energy automotive ignition systems. The compound is an excellent lubricant on rubber, plastic and ceramic surfaces and it also has good high temperature properties, thus preventing fusing of spark plug boots to the spark plug. It will make installation of the boots easier.

Click to expand...

Shimano are probably just worried someone will use petroleum based grease or something else, so won't recommend anything.

fitlikemike said:

Tomorrow my bike is listed for theatres,I'm going to glove up and go first to that connection located in the head tube. My fork is just back from Silverfish UK (warrantied damper shaft replacement). Hopefully it may be a short operation but yeah I hear you - I'll just poke my nose in a little bit. Some dudes on here post incredible gen !

Click to expand...

Mike,
The wired connection will be wrapped inside a foam pad and tucked slightly down into the down tube at the head tube. The exact distance down inside the head tube varies between bikes. You can pull on the head tube wire gentle like and retrieve the foam pad. The pad will contain an the Shimano EW-AD305 adapter. The SD300 motor control wire plugs into one side of the adapter. If your Rise has a EW-EN100 junction box hanging out front on the control cables, then you'll have a SD50 plugs which plugs into the opposite side of the adapter from the SD300 motor control wire. The SD50 wire exits out the head tube and plugs into one side of the junction box. If you have a SC-7000 Shimano black & white computer display the SD50 wire will plug into the back of the SC-7000 black and white display.

This is important: If your Rise came from the factory with a SC-EM800 Shimano color computer display, you will not have a foam pad and adapter located inside the head tube/down tube. If your Rise has the color display, the SD300 motor control wire will travel directly up the down tube, through the head tube, and it will plug directly into the back of the color display. There will be no adapter.

It's extremely easy for the control wires located out front on the bike, to become slightly disconnected. They will appear to be connected but are not. The slight disconnect can happen when you crash on the bike, snag a branch, or are tugging on the bike as you hike-a-bike it up a steep slope or onto a bike rack. Furthermore, I've found that when doing dropper cable work, head set work, removing the fork, or you've got a friend/wife/daughter/son who likes to pull on wires, it's also very easy to slightly disconnect the SD50 wire from the adapter located inside the down tube/head tube (Provided your Rise has the EN100 junction box.)

When troubleshooting the wire disconnect, I've found it's a good practice to unplug each wired connection using a Shimano TL-EW02 wire tool. The SD300 and SD50 wires can be easily damaged when pulling on a wire to remove it from a port, or kinking the wire when trying to re-insert the connection lead back into a port.

The TL-EW02 wire tool has a levered fork on one end of the tool. Shimano SD50 and SD300 wires have a groove around the connection lead. The fork end of the tool is inserted into the groove and used to pry up on the connection lead and remove it from the connection port without damaging the wire.

The other end of the tool has a round tube. The wire connection lead is inserted into the round tube. SD50 and SD300 wire leads have a shoulder. The pipe end of the tool rests against the shoulder on the lead and is used to push the connection lead back into the port without kinking and damaging the wire.

Your Rise should have come with the TL-EW02 tool in the owners kit. If you don't have one, visit your local bike shop. They will usually have one that they can give you. You can also purchase the tool on Amazon.

If you don't have the tool, you can use your fingers to remove or re-install a wire. The connection leads require a little bit of effort to get them to disconnect from a port. The chances of damaging the small wires goes up when using your fingers. Be extra careful.

Ark said:

every manufacturer lists it as plastic and rubber safe



and o n another manufactures website




Shimano are probably just worried someone will use petroleum based grease or something else, so won't recommend anything.

Click to expand...

Ark, I agree with you. Unfortunately, using the grease would very likely void the Rise's warranty with Shimano. If the bike is out of warranty, then I would have no problem with using an electric contact corrosion grease.

Be safe,
Rod

Rod B. said:

Mike,
The wired connection will be wrapped inside a foam pad and tucked slightly down into the down tube at the head tube. The exact distance down inside the head tube varies between bikes. You can pull on the head tube wire gentle like and retrieve the foam pad. The pad will contain an the Shimano EW-AD305 adapter. The SD300 motor control wire plugs into one side of the adapter. If your Rise has a EW-EN100 junction box hanging out front on the control cables, then you'll have a SD50 plugs which plugs into the opposite side of the adapter from the SD300 motor control wire. The SD50 wire exits out the head tube and plugs into one side of the junction box. If you have a SC-7000 Shimano black & white computer display the SD50 wire will plug into the back of the SC-7000 black and white display.

This is important: If your Rise came from the factory with a SC-EM800 Shimano color computer display, you will not have a foam pad and adapter located inside the head tube/down tube. If your Rise has the color display, the SD300 motor control wire will travel directly up the down tube, through the head tube, and it will plug directly into the back of the color display. There will be no adapter.

It's extremely easy for the control wires located out front on the bike, to become slightly disconnected. They will appear to be connected but are not. The slight disconnect can happen when you crash on the bike, snag a branch, or are tugging on the bike as you hike-a-bike it up a steep slope or onto a bike rack. Furthermore, I've found that when doing dropper cable work, head set work, removing the fork, or you've got a friend/wife/daughter/son who likes to pull on wires, it's also very easy to slightly disconnect the SD50 wire from the adapter located inside the down tube/head tube (Provided your Rise has the EN100 junction box.)

When troubleshooting the wire disconnect, I've found it's a good practice to unplug each wired connection using a Shimano TL-EW02 wire tool. The SD300 and SD50 wires can be easily damaged when pulling on a wire to remove it from a port, or kinking the wire when trying to re-insert the connection lead back into a port.

The TL-EW02 wire tool has a levered fork on one end of the tool. Shimano SD50 and SD300 wires have a groove around the connection lead. The fork end of the tool is inserted into the groove and used to pry up on the connection lead and remove it from the connection port without damaging the wire.

The other end of the tool has a round tube. The wire connection lead is inserted into the round tube. SD50 and SD300 wire leads have a shoulder. The pipe end of the tool rests against the shoulder on the lead and is used to push the connection lead back into the port without kinking and damaging the wire.

Your Rise should have come with the TL-EW02 tool in the owners kit. If you don't have one, visit your local bike shop. They will usually have one that they can give you. You can also purchase the tool on Amazon.

If you don't have the tool, you can use your fingers to remove or re-install a wire. The connection leads require a little bit of effort to get them to disconnect from a port. The chances of damaging the small wires goes up when using your fingers. Be extra careful.

View attachment 136682

View attachment 136683

View attachment 136684

Click to expand...

Yip, all good. At least this part of the wiring that is up front. Precisely as you described, foam pad bundle with x2 little zip ties. I separated it all, cleaned and reconnected, used the wire tool that was in the kit provided. It started up first attempt, as normal. Test ride got me about 1k and the fault returned so in the morning I'll check out the motor end. No sweat, yet!

Well, there's good and bad after dropping the motor - the process of gaining access to the internals of the bottom bracket shell etc was incredibly easy and straightforward. No complications at all except to say that going over each of the electrical connections here failed to resolve anything. The whole harness system looks intact, almost like new and nothing untoward or obvious observed. It might be less frustrating if there was an area that was invisible of out of sight and so not readily accessible for inspection, but that's not the case. It all looks normal. Stiil, it won't stay on. Powering up briefly only to switch off seconds later. Arse! The Etube app is telling me nothing, no codes at all showing on the drive unit which is the only device that displays on the error log. Arse! I suppose I'll have to let the genius at my LBS have it. Bad things happen in 3's they say. This thread was a help nevertheless.

fitlikemike said:

Well, there's good and bad after dropping the motor - the process of gaining access to the internals of the bottom bracket shell etc was incredibly easy and straightforward. No complications at all except to say that going over each of the electrical connections here failed to resolve anything. The whole harness system looks intact, almost like new and nothing untoward or obvious observed. It might be less frustrating if there was an area that was invisible of out of sight and so not readily accessible for inspection, but that's not the case. It all looks normal. Stiil, it won't stay on. Powering up briefly only to switch off seconds later. Arse! The Etube app is telling me nothing, no codes at all showing on the drive unit which is the only device that displays on the error log. Arse! I suppose I'll have to let the genius at my LBS have it. Bad things happen in 3's they say. This thread was a help nevertheless.

Click to expand...

Mike,

I've not encountered an issue with a Rise where the bike has bricked but no error code has been thrown. That's unusual, I'm stumped.

Your local bike shop can hook your Rise's Shimano system up to a Shimano SM-PCE1 and perform a diagnostic check for code errors. If the bike shop does not locate the issue, i.e. a damaged wire, bad speed sensor pickup, etc., they will likely re-flash the motor's computer and install a new firmware update. Essentially they do a factory reset to see if that works.

I'm curious, did you recently perform an update on your Rise's Shimano system? If you did and the update was disrupted mid update, i.e. your phone went into sleep mode, it will brick the bike and require a firmware update using a SM-PCE1.

When you disconnected the main harness plug connections to the motor and battery, did the male/female contacts look okay, no corrosion or dirt?

Here are some "Long Shot" suggestions you might want to try before taking the bike in:

Have you tried wiggling the wires on the front of the bike while you ride and after the bike shuts off? The wires on the front of the bike are exposed. Sometimes, a wire will look okay visually, but internally the wire is damaged. Wiggling the wires at the mode switch and junction box as you ride may re-establish a connection and kick the motor back on.

You may have a issue with a cell in your frame battery going bad. If you have a range extender or can borrow a range extender from a friend, try running your Rise with the range extender. The Rise is programed to recognize the range extender and use it's power first and bypass the frame battery. If your Rise works, then your issue is with the frame battery or a bad connection at the main battery.

How does the wire to the rear speed sensor look at the rear of the bike? Sometimes a rock can kick up and damage the speed sensor wire where it exits out the inner side of the chain stay. The speed sensor wire can also get pinched/kinked where it attaches to the left (non drive) side black rubber guide tube. If the speed sensor wire goes bad, your bike will brick. Usually this will throw an error code when it occurs.

Are you still running the factory six bolt rotor and magnetic pickup on your rear brake rotor? Take a metal screw driver and place the tip of the screw driver on the rotor's magnet. Does it feel like the magnet has strong magnetism? You should feel a strong pull. Long term exposure to high heat, i.e. brake rotor, can damage a magnet's magnetism and it can lose power. If the magnet feels weak, you might want to consider replacing the magnet adapter.

I went through a phase where I was experimenting with various brake systems and brake rotors on my Rise. I tried various magnet adapters. I even experimented with gluing magnets to the rear brake rotor using superglue. None of the adapters I tried worked that well. Shimano power systems are finicky about magnetic pickup spacing. I also found that gluing magnets directly to the rear rotor did not work very well. Southern California has many long and steep downhill runs. I discovered that on steep runs, the magnet would become superheated and lose it's magnetism. My Rise would shut off. Once the magnet cooled off, my Rise would power up again.

As a side note, I just got back from a trip to Hurricane and Virgin Utah. If you've watched Red Bull Rampage, the riding takes place in Virgin Utah. There is some absolutely beautiful mesa riding in Virgin and Hurricane. Nearby Saint George also has some excellent technical riding. The weather was running in the low 40's, or about 5 Celsius at the trailhead. The wind was kicking up to about 30mph and it rained at times. It also snowed on the surrounding mountains. The riding was excellent. I didn't take many pictures this trip, but here are a few of those that I did take.

This trip, I took my Turbo Levo. My buddies seen pictured, were riding an Orbea Wild, Trek Rail, Pivot Shuttle LT and a Pivot Shuttle AM.

Saint George Utah, dropping into Sidewinder, Precipice and Suicidal Tendencies.


Precipice


Virgin Utah, Guacamole Mesa, Salt on the Rim


Guacamole Mesa with Zion National Park in the background


Guacamole has a beautiful combination of flow trail and technical rock crawling. It's very much like riding across the backs of a thousand humpback whales.


Zion National park


Virgin Utah


Gooseberry Mesa


Gooseberry Mesa


The good lookin dude is me...The cowboy in blue is EMTB forum subscriber Rusty Iron.





Hands down, the Main Street Café in Hurricane Utah is the best place to grab a bite. As a side note, the town of Hurricane gets it's name from the high winds that whip down out of the mountains.