20mph speed government petition is live!

What amuses me is that if you don't care - why is it such a big deal for you?

That's my goal. What's yours? What do you want to achieve by being against a slightly increased assisted speed by 4 mph? Why are you putting your time, effort, and energy into this discussion if you care very little? Seriously. What's your gain?

I'm sure Weeksy can speak for himself, and probably already has done back in the early stages of this thread. If these questions were put to me, the answer would be simple.

Why would I want to risk what I already had (the right to buy and ride wherever I want, whenever I want) without any obligation beyond being over 14) for an apparently measly 4mph?

20mph said:

That's my goal. What's yours? What do you want to achieve by being against a slightly increased assisted speed by 4 mph? Why are you putting your time, effort, and energy into this discussion if you care very little? Seriously. What's your gain?

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I'll put myself in the 'No' camp too.

I'm quite happy with 15.5mph on my bike. I can pedal it faster than that on the road on my way to the trails, and mainly use the assistance for climbing hills / trails - where I'm going a lot less than 15mph.
I try to stay off the roads where possible, as riding on the road is an inconvenience to motorists and I always feel a bit vulnerable. Would 4mph make a difference to that - absolutely not.

The UK is becoming a joke with unregulated eBilkes flying about on the road. Most of them in my area are Deliveroo / Just Eat etc, and are riding with throttles. No tax, insurance etc, yet flying past me in my car in the cycle lane as I do 30mph along the road.

As many have pointed out above, asking to increase the limit is likely to lead to having to give something back... insurance, registration, licence or something else.

Just out of interest, I presume legal electric commuter or road bikes are fairly easy to ride above the 15.5mph limit? It’s just heavy emtb’s with their sticky grippy tyres that are the issue on flat tarmac ?

(I very rarely ride my emtb’s on tarmac so don’t really notice the cut off limitations)

The discussion/issue isn increasing assistance from 25km/h to 32km/h, is just ridicolous.

For instance, the speed difference makes no problem, what so ever.
25, 32 or other number was choosen by politics, with little to no experience riding bikes or motorbikes.

Limitation proved to be stupid on motorcycles, when 100hp was the max power on some countries, and didn't reduced sinistrality or deaths on the road.

Who has been stopped or tested if the ebike is limit or not?
Not even in Enduro events, let alone police or some kind of law enforcement.

I use my city bike deslimited, and usually ride at 30/35, not more (and you can reach +50km/h).
As soon as it is realeased the gadget for bosch rim magnet, I will use.
25km/h or even 32 or any kind of speed limit, is just plain stupid...
I have private land, and don't need to comply with any law to ride the trails.

Also.......There are already speed limits set on the road.

So, in conclusion is:
Ebikes are already limit to 250W peak power.
No need to introduce extended (& stupid) limits, and there are no way to detect if bikes are or not deresctrited!!!

johnnystorm said:

Why would I want to risk what I already had (the right to buy and ride wherever I want, whenever I want)

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I totally understand your concerns about risking the freedoms we currently enjoy with e-bikes. But here's the thing, why do we automatically assume that refining laws and adjusting speed limits would pose a risk? It's not about creating restrictions but rather adapting to how the e-bike scene has evolved.
But let's address the elephant in the room: the rise of non-certified, non-branded e-bikes that not only exceed safe speeds but also pose significant safety risks, like catching fire. It's these instances that could potentially bring the wrong kind of attention to e-bikes, more so than a reasonable adjustment to speed limits.

The growing use of e-bikes for business deliveries, zipping through cities at speeds well beyond what's safe, especially with heavy loads, highlights another issue. Most of them using this fido fat tires, small e-bikes, non restricted, not-certified. These bikes are a far cry from the eMTBs and leisure bikes most of us are talking about on this forum how many people can't handle the limit!

Also: There's a clear need to distinguish between these utility bikes used for commercial purposes, often skirting moped regulations and taxes, and the ones we use for sport and leisure. Maybe we could guide the government to do their cut for money there? Otherwise they will finally kill somebody and we all get banned! I would fight to be clearly distinguished from them. Doesn't that scare you?!

I still genuinely believe that by making the speed limit more in tune with natural riding speeds for "standard e-bikes" we all know and love, we'd see fewer people feeling the need to tweak their bikes, leading to a safer environment for everyone. I will keep repeating: It's not about going faster for the sake of speed; it's about ensuring the ride feels smooth and natural, enhancing the overall experience.

As for the fears of increased regulation or taxation, there's no precedent anywhere in the world for treating e-bikes with a 250W limit any differently than traditional bikes. The UK isn't likely to be the first to break that mold.

20mph said:

I will keep repeating: It's not about going faster for the sake of speed; it's about ensuring the ride feels smooth and natural, enhancing the overall experience.

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For you. That's it mate. It's about that for you.... you're one voice and it's your voice. But honestly, don't think everyone out there wants or needs the same thing as you.

I'm not knocking your idea, you're perfectly entitled to believe and say the above... but i disagree completely with you.

20mph said:

why is it such a big deal for you?

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It's not mate, i type quickly and spend all day on the internet being an IT bloke in my work life, so throwing a few paragraphs together between work isn't an issue for me.
But you seem to be spewing things out basically telling me and the others who don't want the limit raised (or more likely don't care if it isn't raised) that your way is the right way and trying many ways of justifying it.. You are correct, in your world.
I've just spent the last 2 hours in the woods with my lad on Ebikes, he was on the Rise, i was on the Liv... the last thing on our minds were the speed limiter

20mph said:

But let's address the elephant in the room: the rise of non-certified, non-branded e-bikes that not only exceed safe speeds but also pose significant safety risks, like catching fire. It's these instances that could potentially bring the wrong kind of attention to e-bikes, more so than a reasonable adjustment to speed limits.

The growing use of e-bikes for business deliveries, zipping through cities at speeds well beyond what's safe, especially with heavy loads, highlights another issue. Most of them using this fido fat tires, small e-bikes, non restricted, not-certified. These bikes are a far cry from the eMTBs and leisure bikes most of us are talking about on this forum how many people can't handle the limit!

Also: There's a clear need to distinguish between these utility bikes used for commercial purposes, often skirting moped regulations and taxes, and the ones we use for sport and leisure. Maybe we could guide the government to do their cut for money there? Otherwise they will finally kill somebody and we all get banned! I would fight to be clearly distinguished from them. Doesn't that scare you?!

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I don't understand your logic here. There's no elephant in the room as illegal and dodgy eBikes are err... illegal and in the news all the time. If we are hoping to avoid being tarred with the same brush then asking to go faster seems self defeating.

20mph said:

As for the fears of increased regulation or taxation, there's no precedent anywhere in the world for treating e-bikes with a 250W limit any differently than traditional bikes. The UK isn't likely to be the first to break that mold.

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When my grandad got his driving licence there was a war on and it was just handed to him, rights to drive anything immediately conferred.
When my Dad passed his car test he had rights to a motorbike, no questions asked.
When I passed my test 20 years later I'd need a CBT to ride a scooter but could still drive a 15 seater minibus. My wife passed her test a few years after me and would need an additional test to drive a minibus. Plenty of precedent for restrictions.

Tubby G said:

Just out of interest, I presume legal electric commuter or road bikes are fairly easy to ride above the 15.5mph limit? It’s just heavy emtb’s with their sticky grippy tyres that are the issue on flat tarmac ?

(I very rarely ride my emtb’s on tarmac so don’t really notice the cut off limitations)

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Mine is a 17kg Levo SL, and with the right tyre (not the Cannibals I have on just now) is quite easy to maintain 20mph+ on a flat bit of road.
I imagine something like the Creo (road bike version of the SL) with thin tyres and aerodynamic riding position would be a breeze.

I have a few trails that have a mile or 2 of road to / from the car park… so a little bit of road riding is necessary.

p3eps said:

Mine is a 17kg Levo SL, and with the right tyre (not the Cannibals I have on just now) is quite easy to maintain 20mph+ on a flat bit of road.
I imagine something like the Creo (road bike version of the SL) with thin tyres and aerodynamic riding position would be a breeze.

I have a few trails that have a mile or 2 of road to / from the car park… so a little bit of road riding is necessary.

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I’m similar, I have an Orbea Rise and riding above the limit on that isn’t an issue, on tarmac, trail or gravel fire roads.

I also have a full fat Canyon StriveOn with Bosch motor and the limit is obvious on that, but it has MaxGrip tyres so is noticeably slower when peddling. Not an issue though as I’m only peddling the climbs ready to point it down the trails.

I know a couple of people that have electric road bikes and I never hear of them complaining about the 15.5mph limit so presume a much lighter bike with suitable road tyres is easy to maintain higher speeds.

If I was regularly riding the roads then I’d guess I’d treat myself to an electric road bike, right tool for the job etc. However, if you’re regularly riding the roads to get to the trails on a full fat emtb then I can see how the 15.5mph limit could be slightly annoying (if you’re in a hurry to get there )

If there is a risk raising the issue of max assisted speed.............folk worried we may have to pay tax ( Road Fund Licence)........how would that work, given the tax is based on emissions, and bike emissions are Zero . DVLA would also have no capacity to handle at a stroke applications for tax for the current UK population of electric bikes........3/4 million!!

20mph said:

Hey everyone,

I'm Paulina, a fellow e-bike and motorbike enthusiast with a geeky side that I proudly embrace. Riding has always been a passion of mine, and it's the freedom and thrill of the journey that keeps me going. Today, I'm here not just as a rider, but as someone who wants to make a difference in our community.

I'm reaching out to discuss and gather support for an initiative very close to my heart—advocating for an increase in the e-bike speed limit to 20 mph. It's a change that I believe can significantly enhance our riding experience, ensuring better safety and alignment with urban traffic speeds.

I've put together some thoughts and research on this topic, which you can explore in more detail on our dedicated website:

Read More & Join the Cause​

And if you're already on board with this idea, your signature on our petition would mean the world to us:

Support by Signing Here​

But more than just signatures, I'm here for your insights. Do you have any arguments, ideas, or facts that could bolster our cause? Your experiences and knowledge could greatly enrich our collective voice.

Additionally, I extend a special invitation to our forum administrators: If there's an official statement or insight you'd like to share on our platform, complete with a link back to this forum, I'd be thrilled to feature it. Collaboration with communities like ours can only strengthen our advocacy.

Thank you for considering this initiative and for any contributions you might have. Together, we can push for a safer and more enjoyable future for all e-bike riders.

Ride safe and stay inspired, Paulina

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Signed immediately, only 183 signatures sure we can get more than that !!

Mikerb said:

If there is a risk raising the issue of max assisted speed.............folk worried we may have to pay tax ( Road Fund Licence)........how would that work, given the tax is based on emissions, and bike emissions are Zero . DVLA would also have no capacity to handle at a stroke applications for tax for the current UK population of electric bikes........3/4 million!!

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Road tax for electric bikes starts next year.

How do zero ved vehicles get their free tax? By presenting their proof of MOT & insurance.

johnnystorm said:

Electric motorcycles to pay road tax – British Motorcyclists Federation

www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk

Road tax for electric bikes starts next year.

How do zero ved vehicles get their free tax? By presenting their proof of MOT & insurance.

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BEVs (Teslas etc) start paying VED, here in the UK, next year also.

Peaky Rider said:

BEVs (Teslas etc) start paying VED, here in the UK, next year also.

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electric motorcycles and EVs are already DVLC registered and ther total numbers combined is miniscule compared to the Ebike population, so it would be a logistical nightmare to start legilating for EBikes to be DVLA registered and taxed. Add to that electric motor cycles and EVs are already effectively taxed..........it is just that the tax rate is zero.

The op wants an extra 3.5 mph , why is everyone waffling about car tax Before Brexit they was all saying “we can make are own laws” , well let’s effing start doing it then !

20mph said:

Hey everyone,

I'm Paulina, a fellow e-bike and motorbike enthusiast with a geeky side that I proudly embrace. Riding has always been a passion of mine, and it's the freedom and thrill of the journey that keeps me going. Today, I'm here not just as a rider, but as someone who wants to make a difference in our community.

I'm reaching out to discuss and gather support for an initiative very close to my heart—advocating for an increase in the e-bike speed limit to 20 mph. It's a change that I believe can significantly enhance our riding experience, ensuring better safety and alignment with urban traffic speeds.

I've put together some thoughts and research on this topic, which you can explore in more detail on our dedicated website:

Read More & Join the Cause​

And if you're already on board with this idea, your signature on our petition would mean the world to us:

Support by Signing Here​

But more than just signatures, I'm here for your insights. Do you have any arguments, ideas, or facts that could bolster our cause? Your experiences and knowledge could greatly enrich our collective voice.

Additionally, I extend a special invitation to our forum administrators: If there's an official statement or insight you'd like to share on our platform, complete with a link back to this forum, I'd be thrilled to feature it. Collaboration with communities like ours can only strengthen our advocacy.

Thank you for considering this initiative and for any contributions you might have. Together, we can push for a safer and more enjoyable future for all e-bike riders.

Ride safe and stay inspired, Paulina

Click to expand...

Signed , but it said only 195 signatures so far , some really daft answers here as usual on the subject . Fact is a heavy draggy Ebike wont keep up with road bikes even if it’s de restricted but it would help equalise on flat sections of road , a 20mph limit would make the off road a little better without constantly hitting that limiter

EU Court of Justice rules that e-bikes are bicycles – not motorbikes​

The European Union Court of Justice has ruled that e-bikes are bicycles, not motor vehicles, because they are "not propelled exclusively by mechanical power".
This ruling, which settles a debate that has been ongoing since e-bikes started appearing on our streets, means that electric bicycles do not need to be insured, unlike a car or motorbike.
It also means that people riding e-bikes are classed as vulnerable road users, just like pedestrians or people riding normal bicycles.

The courts ruled that, since "the bicycle's motor merely provided pedal assistance", it was not a motor vehicle, and does not need insurance, like a car, truck or motorbike.
In the main, this is because the law requiring vehicle insurance is there to protect other road users. E-bikes, ruled the courts, do not present the same danger to others as heavier, faster-moving and mechanically-propelled vehicles.

So, E-bikes are bicycles, we would just like to ride them with assistance set a few miles per hour faster. I think that anyone who owns an E-mountain bike, electrically assisted pedal cycle (EAPC) should be signing this!

Levo Laland said:

EU Court of Justice rules that e-bikes are bicycles – not motorbikes​

The European Union Court of Justice has ruled that e-bikes are bicycles, not motor vehicles, because they are "not propelled exclusively by mechanical power".
This ruling, which settles a debate that has been ongoing since e-bikes started appearing on our streets, means that electric bicycles do not need to be insured, unlike a car or motorbike.
It also means that people riding e-bikes are classed as vulnerable road users, just like pedestrians or people riding normal bicycles.

The courts ruled that, since "the bicycle's motor merely provided pedal assistance", it was not a motor vehicle, and does not need insurance, like a car, truck or motorbike.
In the main, this is because the law requiring vehicle insurance is there to protect other road users. E-bikes, ruled the courts, do not present the same danger to others as heavier, faster-moving and mechanically-propelled vehicles.

So, E-bikes are bicycles, we would just like to ride them with assistance set a few miles per hour faster. I think that anyone who owns an E-mountain bike should be signing this!

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2 things...
1. The UK is NOT in the EU.
2. Half the idiots on the roads on eBikes are travelling on the pretence that they are pedalling, but are actually running on throttle power.

p3eps said:

2 things...
1. The UK is NOT in the EU.
2. Half the idiots on the roads on eBikes are travelling on the pretence that they are pedalling, but are actually running on throttle power.

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The above so-called "eBikes" simply have electric instead of IC engines. Sometimes even see them on cycle routes.

irie said:

The above so-called "eBikes" simply have electric instead of IC engines. Sometimes even see them on cycle routes.

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I see some of them (Suron and things that look like mopeds) but the ones I see are mostly 20 year old mountain bikes with some sort of "kit" where the battery is in a giant triangle frame bag. Mainly food delivery people... flying along the cycle lanes at 30mph+ (whilst not pedalling!).

irie said:

The above so-called "eBikes" simply have electric instead of IC engines. Sometimes even see them on cycle routes.

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And this is a lot of the problem in general
We don't ride ebikes we ride pedelecs
The sooner these two are separated the better as there's a massive difference between the two .

It is nevertheless an interesting ruling and one that focused purely on the difference between motor assist and permanent motor drive. The other pedelec criteria were not mentioned.....ie max 250 Watts nominal and max assisted speed.
Yes the UK is not in the EU but is very unlikely to disagree with that ruling.
Whilst the motor rating and max assisted speed are criteria pretty difficult to enforce the presence of a throttle is a lot easier to identify.

Levo Laland said:

So, E-bikes are bicycles, we would just like to ride them with assistance set a few miles per hour faster. I think that anyone who owns an E-mountain bike, electrically assisted pedal cycle (EAPC) should be signing this!

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………and everyone who doesn’t should have there motor assistance cut to 12mph

#lazy said:

………and everyone who doesn’t should have there motor assistance cut to 12mph

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That actually wouldn’t bother me! I got an eMTB for assistance going up the hills… and on a Levo SL I doubt I’m anywhere near 12mph going up

I think the 16mph limit is archaic, used to ride road bikes and would maintain well over this, makes me wonder how this figure was determined?

alancube said:

used to ride road bikes and would maintain well over this

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And you still can

Agreed and signed, thanks for going to the trouble to set this up.

steve_sordy said:

Currently, I am OK with the 25kph assist limit because it gives me freedom from being taxed and having to be insured. I say "OK" only because of the tax and insurance aspects. If I could still have them at 32kph (20mph) then I would be happy with that.

If I really, really, really wanted an assist speed above 25kph, then I'd chip the motor or otherwise frig the system.

What would concern me about the petition is my considerable doubt that our civil servants would content themselves with just altering the assist speed and no other aspect of the relevant regulation (law, whatever). Our civil servants have a decades long track record of gold plating EU regulations for implementation into UK law. I fear that they would seek the opportunity to add stuff that we don't want. I mean why should they spend time setting up committees, investigating, discussing evidence, hearing pleas for and against the case, debating, writing position papers and all the "Yes Minister" pantomime that goes on, without getting something in return? That return may involve registration of the bike, compulsory insurance, indelible marking of the bikes and an annual fee to pay for all that bureaucracy.

And that would be the minimum they could do. Once they have the bikes marked, registered, insured and effectively taxed (the annual registration fee), why not demand the wearing of a bright yellow tabard that displays the relevant details so that officers can check up on you that all is well? What about an e-bike tax? What government doesn't like a new tax?

And after all that they may decide that 25kph is still the correct limit, but while they are at it, they still introduce all the other things I mentioned above. (As I said, they have to get something for their efforts).

I think we should let sleeping dogs lie.

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This is 1000% correct, be very careful what you wish for. Watch what steve has said, yes minister or yes prime minister, you really dont want humphry applying more cost!

(F)rigging the system should be in every mtbers dna