Jabba81
New Member
May be in Slovenia they are a bit more chilled on this. But for me in Switzerland, I think they will over-regulate it, for sure!
Orbea x Avinox Rumours
- Thread starter gbcoke
- Start date
May be in Slovenia they are a bit more chilled on this. But for me in Switzerland, I think they will over-regulate it, for sure!
You're quite mistaken there. Not long ago, riding bicycles in natural environments — both regular bikes and e-bikes — was effectively put into the same category as riding a motocross bike or a quad bike and the fines can be extremely high. Penalties can reach up to €2,000, and authorities may even confiscate the vehicle. The regulations and penalties are slowly moving beyond the bounds of common sense. When is this madness going to end?
Even a 2500W eMTB isn't illegal though. For example, it is completely legal to be riding it on your private property. We police behavior, not the tools used to break the law. That's why its legal to sell cars that go 200 mph.
Why should the sale of such e-bikes be illegal in the first place?
I don't have a problem with regulating where and how they're used. What bothers me is the idea of banning the sale of these motors altogether or limiting everyone across the board.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to buy such a bike for use in a local bike park that doesn't have a chairlift or shuttle service? Not every high-powered e-bike is being ridden illegally on public trails.
I don't have a problem with regulating where and how they're used. What bothers me is the idea of banning the sale of these motors altogether or limiting everyone across the board.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to buy such a bike for use in a local bike park that doesn't have a chairlift or shuttle service? Not every high-powered e-bike is being ridden illegally on public trails.
More 'whataboutism'. You know and I know that we want to operate our e-bikes on public trails that specifically do not allow above Class 1 power levels.
So, when I say 'illegal' I obviously mean illegal for what we want to use them for. I mean, MX bikes aren't technically illegal as they can be used at any MX track or large enough private land. That's clearly not what I was referencing.
Horsecrap and you know it.
This is a good point. The bike industry better open their eyes to the reality that there would be far fewer bikes sold this year if they had instituted an artificial power limit. To keep this on topic, I'll guarantee the success of an Avinox Wild will fall flat if Orbea decides to limit power on their motors.
You're sorta saying what i am... The behavior is what's illegal; not the bike.
mintsauce
Member
When I saw so many new posts, I was keen to see all the newly leaked images, specs, and geo charts.
Shame it's just lots of 'man shouts at cloud'
Shame it's just lots of 'man shouts at cloud'
You're a bit late to the party. The leaked photos were already circulating, but the moderators kept deleting them.When I saw so many new posts, I was keen to see all the newly leaked images, specs, and geo charts.
Shame it's just lots of 'man shouts at cloud'
But I'm not, at all.
No one is selling a CRF450F at the local bicycle shop, throwing in a bicyle helmet, and saying 'go enjoy your local park trails and watch out for the hikers because it's all about the rider being responsible, not the 'bike' being used...'
The problem is that Class 2+ are being represented as Class 1 bikes which are legal on bike only trails, when in reality Class2+ bikes are legally grouped in with MX bikes.
That's the law. In the US, anything over 750watts and/ or 20mph is NOT Class 1. Pretty simple.
I understand that you think the Class 1 limits that were created are too low. That's another argument.
Respectfully, you're thinking too narrowly. Anyone with the money can go buy a CRF450F, throw on a bicycle helmet and ride it on mountain bike trails illegally; and the CRF itself is still completely legal. What's illegal is the choice to ride it where it's prohibited. That is why and how eMTBs don't become illegal at any power limit. Their Class rating is only relevant where enforced; and there's a LOT of land here that a Class rating is completely irrelevant. .
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TheKaiser
Active member
One small point of clarification is that Class 1, 2, and 3, all have a 750w power limit. The difference is that Class 2 allows a throttle while still having a 20mph limit, and Class 3 allows up to 28mph (although I think there may be a rule that if the Class 3 bike has a throttle, the throttle assist must cut out at 20mph).
Your essential point holds true, in that bikes with over 750w outputs are being represented as legally equivalent to bikes with under 750w outputs. It's just that it is inaccurate to call those over 750w bikes "Class 2+".
You were only mentioning wattage, but I guess there is also the consideration that Specialized and Avinox bikes are able to be set to Class 3 mode (at least in the USA).
Roughshod
Member
That's a hell of a lot of off topic posts...
I clicked on this to read about the Orbea Avinox bikes!
I clicked on this to read about the Orbea Avinox bikes!
Vision_Tim
New Member
If the new Avinox Wild is power limited to only Class 1, making it unique in the Avinox e-bike world, I'd say it's 100% on point.
Roughshod
Member
Sorry I'll have to disagree. Scooters, licences, heresay etc are discussions for their own threads in my opinion. There's plenty of them anyway to discuss that stuff in as well.
Unless I'm mistaken all Avinox bikes in Europe are limited to class 1, so this wouldn't even be unique. Unless you derestrict them but then you can do that with lots of motors.
Looking forward to seeing what they actually end up releasing!
Unless I'm mistaken all Avinox bikes in Europe are limited to class 1, so this wouldn't even be unique. Unless you derestrict them but then you can do that with lots of motors.
Looking forward to seeing what they actually end up releasing!
craigavfc
Member
is the Bosch wild 170/170mm discontinued?
dirtsufer
New Member
It will be. Should be able to snag a 2026 model at a hefty discount if you want a 170/170 Bosch
Where u from?
USA
Ahhh, Im in Europe
No, loads in the UK press about illegally modified ebikes (significant numbers, mostly fast food delivery riders), illegally used e-motorbikes (Suron etc, often used for street/phone robbery). Less about scooters because in the UK they don't seem to have had a significant volume of sales. (the Police have occasional crackdowns and confiscate people found with both)
the perceived problem is legal bikes get grouped in with illegal (already happening with e bikes being banned on public transport, hotels, rented flats because of battery fires which are pretty much 100% related to DIY e bikes not properly manufactured)
I'm absolutely in favour of speed limiters (and acceleration limiters) on cars as well. Rental Ebikes have shown the tech is there - all motor vehicles should be hard limited to 20mph in 20mph city zones.
Why not a 5 mph hard limit so you’re even safer?
because 20mph is the point where you shift from most pedestrians surviving to most ending up dead. But in areas where pedestrians should absolutely have priority and don’t have their own safe space that’s a good idea. It’s the supposed limit in a lot of car parks.
This stuff isn’t controversial in developed European countries. London already has 20mph limit across pretty much the whole city. As does pretty much every European city (in fact in really central areas some of them are 20kmh). Lime electric bike share cut out at 15.5mph (and you really can’t pedal them much faster because of the weight and gearing) in most parks and pedestrian zones they drop to 8mph.
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Is the only concern pedestrian deaths though? Being safe isn’t limited to preventing deaths. You’d be even safer from injury if you just limited everything to 5 mph.
you would, but Helsinki has shown you can achieve zero road deaths without doing that with sensible policies and infrastructure while still having decent mobility.
Helsinki records zero road deaths over the past year
Helsinki has recorded a full year without traffic fatalities, credited to long-term Vision Zero policies, lower speed limits, safer street design, and expanded walking, cycling and public transport infrastructure.
urban-mobility-observatory.transport.ec.europa.eu
Vision_Tim
New Member
We should put governors on meat powered bikes too, they can reach crazy speeds and need to be reigned in.
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