So frustrated that i didn't wait for the PX

[E-MTBinGreece]

I Just got the PL Carbon Pro ten days ago and all the info and reviews said it was one of the top if not THE top rated EMBT.

Just 32 miles and 6 days later the PX Carbon Pro launches and i am struggling with huge buyers remorse.

Hindsight is wonderful but to bring out a new flagship in less than 18 months is going to really annoy us M1 owners.

I asked Amflow directly if they sell the M2S motor but they say its not compatible with the M1 (despite YouTube sayig otherwise).

Not sure what to do now. Do i just cut my losses and sell it to put towards a PX or just live with obsolete tech?

I wouldn’t worry about “obsolete tech” too much—mine’s a Focus JARIFA² hardtail.

I ride in Crete, Greece, and average around 8,500 km a year. The terrain here is challenging and unforgiving—gravel, loose stone, hardpack, exposed rock, limestone slabs, uneven agricultural tracks, compacted paths, dry riverbeds, sharp switchbacks, dust, heat, and the occasional short stretch of tarmac when things calm down briefly. No man-made trails or bike parks.

To say it’s demanding would be an understatement—and my bike takes a hammering.

Out here, it’s less about what’s just been launched and more about what actually gets you round the route without shaking the bike (and you) to bits.

If you’re still enjoying the ride, I’d say you’ve got the right bike

 

[Paul F]

I Just got the PL Carbon Pro ten days ago and all the info and reviews said it was one of the top if not THE top rated EMBT.

Just 32 miles and 6 days later the PX Carbon Pro launches and i am struggling with huge buyers remorse.

Hindsight is wonderful but to bring out a new flagship in less than 18 months is going to really annoy us M1 owners.

I asked Amflow directly if they sell the M2S motor but they say its not compatible with the M1 (despite YouTube sayig otherwise).

Not sure what to do now. Do i just cut my losses and sell it to put towards a PX or just live with obsolete tech?

I’ve got a 10 year old Haibike RC Allmtn with Gen 2 65Nm motor and 500Wh battery. I prefer it to my 3 year old Haibike Allmtn 5 with 85Nm and 625Wh battery. I can go just a fast and with a similar range. So my point is new tech is great on paper but in practice often doesn’t amount to much. You already have a great bike. You could by the very latest Amflow Avinox but in a few weeks find thar Bosch has launched something better.

 

[Singletrackmind]

I Just got the PL Carbon Pro ten days ago and all the info and reviews said it was one of the top if not THE top rated EMBT.

Just 32 miles and 6 days later the PX Carbon Pro launches and i am struggling with huge buyers remorse.

Hindsight is wonderful but to bring out a new flagship in less than 18 months is going to really annoy us M1 owners.

I asked Amflow directly if they sell the M2S motor but they say its not compatible with the M1 (despite YouTube sayig otherwise).

Not sure what to do now. Do i just cut my losses and sell it to put towards a PX or just live with obsolete tech?

I'm gonna take the opposite view of most of the responses you've received so far with all due respect.

I say go for the newer model if your pocket book allows it! Cut your losses, get the bike you wished you would have bought and don't look back!!!

As others have stated, there will always be newer and "better" technologies, but the jump between the M1 and M2S is a big one! Not sure about the other improved components/frame geo on the model you bought versus the model you wish you bought.

I purchased 2 Bosch Gen5 powered emtb's last year and are selling both of them to get new AVINOX powered bikes.

Will be replacing my Crestline S180 with the RS181.2 powered model (due to arrive in June) and transferring all my top of the line components on current bike to the new bike and then will sell S180 with basically all new components at a loss

Fortunately for me monetary considerations are not a factor and realize that's not the case for everyone. I've worked hard to be in the financial situation I'm in and being in my early 60's, not sure how many more years I have left to ride.

Will be doing the same components swap out on my other Bosch Gen5 bike once I decide which AVINOX model I will replace it with. Waiting to see the official spec/details on new Orbea that will be formally announced soon, the Mondraker Zendit or the new Pivot.

One last thing to consider is several of the top tier bike companies are switching to the Avinox motor for a reason. The advances in motor technology has made major improvements over the last couple years and I don't think the next wave of new emtb motors will be leaps and bounds above what we are seeing right now.

Understand I may take some heat from others on my take on all this and honestly believe everyone should make the best decision based upon their own needs and capabilities.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Unfortunately i love tech and now it seems Mountain biking has joined the tech race. I didn't care with my manual enduro bike.

I will buy a new flagship GPU and processor for my desktop rig every two years when the new ones release. My desktop PC setup now costs more than two of the PL pros and it seems my stupid brain has now focused on Ebikes due to the tech.

I feel your pain! Why fight it? Enjoy this "illness" and don't have any regrets!

 

[Ndanger]

I would be happy as a clam with a PL, and based on a universal opinion trend of it being the "most amazing" bike until yesterday would have a hard time being concerned that it could not be a "most amazing" bike going forward regardless of recent new design improvements. At some point if skills or objectives are inhibited by limitations of the equipment then I would be looking for the next step. With that said I believe that the PL would be fit for purpose indeed.

 

[rooharris]

Thanks for more replies.

I just think Amflow should have done what Commenical have done with the Meta Power SX. Its on their website available for preorders for July.

Perry, Sad to hear of your woes. A first world problem, I guess. Hopefully whining helps you feel better. Wah!

 

[Scott_123]

I guess my MTB skills aren’t good enough but the 1st Edition PL Carbon Pro is a far better bike than I am rider. I would like to hear from someone that actually owns one and thinks it ranked down the list of EMTB’s available at the time.

For me at least, I don’t care about all kinds of different adjustments. Most people set it and never mess with it again and many just leave it the way it came. More of a gimmick, JMHO.

 

[Brawwp]

I guess my MTB skills aren’t good enough but the 1st Edition PL Carbon Pro is a far better bike than I am rider. I would like to hear from someone that actually owns one and thinks it ranked down the list of EMTB’s available at the time.

For me at least, I don’t care about all kinds of different adjustments. Most people set it and never mess with it again and many just leave it the way it came. More of a gimmick, JMHO.

Yep agree. The m1 amflow setup with 170 fork, coil, and mullet is suchhhhh a good bike. I wish more people tried it out and didn’t listen to people that haven’t ridden one trashing it. It’s just super fun, poppy, and the majority of riders on here aren’t outriding the capability of that bike.

I have a crestline on order and I seriously think I’ll miss my amflow when I sell it. It’s been one of the funnest emtbs I’ve owned, and I’ve owned quite a few now. I almost think the crestline is going to be a tank and somewhat less fun overall. More capable for sure, but for everyday I think the amflow is hard to beat.

 

[Scott_123]

Yep agree. The m1 amflow setup with 170 fork, coil, and mullet is suchhhhh a good bike. I wish more people tried it out and didn’t listen to people that haven’t ridden one trashing it. It’s just super fun, poppy, and the majority of riders on here aren’t outriding the capability of that bike.

I have a crestline on order and I seriously think I’ll miss my amflow when I sell it. It’s been one of the funnest emtbs I’ve owned, and I’ve owned quite a few now. I almost think the crestline is going to be a tank and somewhat less fun overall. More capable for sure, but for everyday I think the amflow is hard to beat.

I just find it funny that Amflow sold something like 40-50K bikes the first go around and now some people say it wasn’t a good bike, really? Sure that doesn’t compare to Specalized sales, but for a first effort, I’m not sure anyone in the EMTB has achieved something like that, ever. The new model is a refinement of the old based on customer feedback which tells you Amflow listens to their customers.

I happen to be one who doesn’t care about flex, removable batteries, and flip chips all over the place. Glad they did all that stuff that people wanted credit to them

 

[Singletrackmind]

Yep agree. The m1 amflow setup with 170 fork, coil, and mullet is suchhhhh a good bike. I wish more people tried it out and didn’t listen to people that haven’t ridden one trashing it. It’s just super fun, poppy, and the majority of riders on here aren’t outriding the capability of that bike.

I have a crestline on order and I seriously think I’ll miss my amflow when I sell it. It’s been one of the funnest emtbs I’ve owned, and I’ve owned quite a few now. I almost think the crestline is going to be a tank and somewhat less fun overall. More capable for sure, but for everyday I think the amflow is hard to beat.

I've never ridden an AM Flow, but own a Crestline S180 (have a new RS181.2 Speed Shop Team Edition Complete Bike on order) and have been impressed with how it rides.

Doesn't feel like a 180mm f/r travel bike and was very impressed with how well climbs and how responsive it is on various types of trails.

I think with the lighter motor you will be pleasantly surprised how fun it is to ride!

 

[sjturner2112]

I wouldn’t worry about “obsolete tech” too much—mine’s a Focus JARIFA² hardtail.

I ride in Crete, Greece, and average around 8,500 km a year. The terrain here is challenging and unforgiving—gravel, loose stone, hardpack, exposed rock, limestone slabs, uneven agricultural tracks, compacted paths, dry riverbeds, sharp switchbacks, dust, heat, and the occasional short stretch of tarmac when things calm down briefly. No man-made trails or bike parks.

To say it’s demanding would be an understatement—and my bike takes a hammering.

Out here, it’s less about what’s just been launched and more about what actually gets you round the route without shaking the bike (and you) to bits.

If you’re still enjoying the ride, I’d say you’ve got the right bike

how on earth are you able to get that many kilometers in in a year? are you retired? Do you have hot-swappable joints?

 

[Mario Antony]

I'm gonna take the opposite view of most of the responses you've received so far with all due respect.

I say go for the newer model if your pocket book allows it! Cut your losses, get the bike you wished you would have bought and don't look back!!!

As others have stated, there will always be newer and "better" technologies, but the jump between the M1 and M2S is a big one! Not sure about the other improved components/frame geo on the model you bought versus the model you wish you bought.

I purchased 2 Bosch Gen5 powered emtb's last year and are selling both of them to get new AVINOX powered bikes.

Will be replacing my Crestline S180 with the RS181.2 powered model (due to arrive in June) and transferring all my top of the line components on current bike to the new bike and then will sell S180 with basically all new components at a loss

Fortunately for me monetary considerations are not a factor and realize that's not the case for everyone. I've worked hard to be in the financial situation I'm in and being in my early 60's, not sure how many more years I have left to ride.

Will be doing the same components swap out on my other Bosch Gen5 bike once I decide which AVINOX model I will replace it with. Waiting to see the official spec/details on new Orbea that will be formally announced soon, the Mondraker Zendit or the new Pivot.

One last thing to consider is several of the top tier bike companies are switching to the Avinox motor for a reason. The advances in motor technology has made major improvements over the last couple years and I don't think the next wave of new emtb motors will be leaps and bounds above what we are seeing right now.

Understand I may take some heat from others on my take on all this and honestly believe everyone should make the best decision based upon their own needs and capabilities.

I agree that Avinox brought new standards to eMTB: Battery Size, Charging, Motor Specs, and prices.

The only issue I find with Avinox is sofware tune and how assistance is provided.
It's also funny to read things about how difficult is to handle a Bosch CX Race, and nothing is refered to Avinox Massive jump when the rider barely steps in the pedals (if the rider increases power from 50W to 100W, motor assistance goes from 400W to 800W).

 

[Maxi]

Just spent the last couple of Days at Glentress & Innerleithan on my Amflow and by g*d, it was good fun ! I have tweaked Auto to max 75nm & 600W, Trail 85nm & 750W and was spot on - other than technical climbs, kept it in Auto and it did feel I had to 'work for it' at times, but that's a good thing. Did try turbo (full out) a couple of times and honestly, far too much power to be used sensibly. Did boost a couple of times on the Innerleithan climbs but the need to do that was down to poor technique rather than the demands of the trail.

Size wise I got a medium as I was on the cusp of M/L and glad I went smaller - at the end of Innerleithan red I felt that my confidence had grown massively over the 2 days I think 75% down to how the bike handles, 25% to me.

So again, zero regrets buying the PL Pro just before new releases especially as I can ride it now

 

[Brawwp]

I agree that Avinox brought new standards to eMTB: Battery Size, Charging, Motor Specs, and prices.

The only issue I find with Avinox is sofware tune and how assistance is provided.
It's also funny to read things about how difficult is to handle a Bosch CX Race, and nothing is refered to Avinox Massive jump when the rider barely steps in the pedals (if the rider increases power from 50W to 100W, motor assistance goes from 400W to 800W

What did you not like about avinox assistance? Are you basing this off actually riding one or just numbers online? You can pretty much tune it however you want.

 

[sjturner2112]

I am impressed with the form factor on the Avinox bikes, that is what attracts me, an FP emtb that looks almost like a regular bike, and is relatively lightweight. The engine power is, well, it's ALL anyone can talk about, but I feel it's not all that relevant, it's a massive red herring. You can't USE IT because of battery depletion. I am 100% sure I will find the vast majority of avinox system riders tuning the bike's output way down, because they will soon find at 1300 watts and high NM assistance gives them like 45 minutes on the trails with a 700 watt battery. So, in the end, and for all practical purpose, the avinox system is basically the same as all the others. Everybody I think is missing the point, which is, you are getting a motor for assistance on **mountain biking** so the bike is the key thing. DO you love how the bike rides? Does it fit your body well? Does it corner/climb/jump/drop well? How does it feel under braking? How active is the suspension? How does it respond to rider input? TO ME, those are the questions, the motor question should be 'is this good enough for what I want to do?" and that approach makes almost all the current motors more than viable. If I buy an Avinox system bike it will be for the form factor and weight, because the motor will just get tuned down to 750/85nm so I can get some actual range. That is where I get frustrated with Bosch - the speed of development, and the lack of focus on weight, size and form factor. They keep plugging along with incremental improvements, and are being forced to chase the avinox numbers instead of working harder to get the weight and size way down.

 

[Brawwp]

Everybody I think is missing the point, which is, you are getting a motor for assistance on **mountain biking** so the bike is the key thing. DO you love how the bike rides? Does it fit your body well? Does it corner/climb/jump/drop well? How does it feel under braking? How active is the suspension? How does it respond to rider input? TO ME, those are the questions, the motor question should be 'is this good enough for what I want to do?" and that approach makes almost all the current motors more than viable.

Devils advocate here, every motor system now has multiple very good modern bike options behind that motor system. A very big cost in your purchase and something that is basically constantly running as you ride is the motor system. So I just don’t get the view that the motor system is just a back burner decision on buying a bike. It all matters and you can basically now pick a motor system and then the bike within that system that suits you because they all have amazing options.

 

[Mario Antony]

What did you not like about avinox assistance? Are you basing this off actually riding one or just numbers online? You can pretty much tune it however you want.

It's not a like/dislike issue.
I agree there are people looking for Avinox assistance type motor systems.
Also didn't had the opportunity to fully exploit all settings, but hopeI can grab a Avinox bike sooner or latter, for 2 or 3 days.

But regarding the assistance, when I got my Bosch system, I quickly found out that I liked more the linear assistance (Eco/Tour/Sport/Turbo) that the adaptive assistance (Exo+/Tour+/eMTB & eMTB+).
[JUST A SIDE NOTE: I really appreciate the 2m drive from eMTB+]
It's more connected to the rider

In terms of Avinox, I didn't felt the same connection as Bosch.
I believe, some will say it's a matter of settings, but, really, seeing ebike-lab.de graphics, it really doesn't seem a setting issue.

As I become fit (again. Thank God!), I think I'll tend to prefer a less powerfull ebikes, and possibly a motor that doesn't drag as much when reaching speed limit.

Personally, I think we'll see not 2 Ebike Categories, has it is today, but more 3:
SL
EBIKES
SUPER-EBIKES

Just made up the names right now!
I wrote something about that here:

Thread 'The Avinox Effect – How a Manufacturer Disrupted an Entire Market'

Apr 12, 2026

The Avinox Effect – How a Manufacturer Disrupted an Entire Market​

Anyone interested in eMTBs has likely heard about the Avinox motor. When DJI released the Avinox M1 in 2024, it immediately disrupted established players such as Bosch, Specialized, Shimano, and Giant. The surge in power triggered a “power race,” with Bosch increasing the torque of its latest Performance Line CX (“Gen5”) from 85Nm to 105Nm, while Specialized enhanced the output of its non-S-Works models. Shimano has maintained its EP801 at 85Nm, and Giant, despite...

• Mario Antony
• Replies: 0
• Forum: EMTB Discussion

• 

 

[Brawwp]

It's not a like/dislike issue.
I agree there are people looking for Avinox assistance type motor systems.
Also didn't had the opportunity to fully exploit all settings, but hopeI can grab a Avinox bike sooner or latter, for 2 or 3 days.

But regarding the assistance, when I got my Bosch system, I quickly found out that I liked more the linear assistance (Eco/Tour/Sport/Turbo) that the adaptive assistance (Exo+/Tour+/eMTB & eMTB+).
[JUST A SIDE NOTE: I really appreciate the 2m drive from eMTB+]
It's more connected to the rider, and I'd say easier to handle when tired.

In terms of Avinox, I didn't felt the same connection as Bosch.
I believe, some will say it's a matter of settings, but, really, seeing ebike-lab.de graphics, it really doesn't seem a setting issue.

As I become fit (again. Thank God!), I think I'll tend to prefer a less powerfull ebikes, and possibly a motor that doesn't drag as much when reaching speed limit.

Did you ride an avinox though or just basing this off a chart? I’m just curious what you found off on the Avinox if you did ride one. That info can help others as well.
I’m not trying to change your mind, idc what you get. The new M2 motors apparently have way less drag now though.

I’m just saying go ride one (if you haven’t) before you make a decision off some charts. I think this is just a common thing on here that people don’t actually go try anything and have their minds made up. Just because it CAN go to insane powers and assistance, doesn’t mean you have to use that amount. Just tune it down. It doesn’t make sense to not get it just because it CAN go to higher power assistance. Especially when it’s basically the same weight (or lighter) as lower power motors and with a slimmer form factor.

But yea dude actually go ride one. Who knows, you may still prefer Bosch as many do.

 

[E-MTBinGreece]

how on earth are you able to get that many kilometers in in a year? are you retired? Do you have hot-swappable joints?

Yes—retired at 55, now 73. I ride four times a week—Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday—and keep it consistent. The kilometres add up over the year. As for “hot-swappable joints”—no such option—just steady riding, Tai Chi, stretching, and looking after what I’ve got.

 

[Mario Antony]

Did you ride an avinox though or just basing this off a chart? I’m just curious what you found off on the Avinox if you did ride one. That info can help others as well.
I’m not trying to change your mind, idc what you get. The new M2 motors apparently have way less drag now though.

I’m just saying go ride one (if you haven’t) before you make a decision off some charts. I think this is just a common thing on here that people don’t actually go try anything and have their minds made up. Just because it CAN go to insane powers and assistance, doesn’t mean you have to use that amount. Just tune it down. It doesn’t make sense to not get it just because it CAN go to higher power assistance. Especially when it’s basically the same weight (or lighter) as lower power motors and with a slimmer form factor.

But yea dude actually go ride one. Who knows, you may still prefer Bosch as many do.

I thought I responded, YES I rode one, but only M1.
Being M2 and M2S more powerfull, it's a matter of extrapolate. But yes, I want to try one.

The "Some charts" are like dyno curves. More than willing to explain in words.

Regarding Power, personally I find funny when people talk about "powerfull" ebikes pedalec.
Even stock Surrons are like: "yeahh... funny!".

I don't chase power on ebikes, and want the better connection Rider/Machine.
AVINOX M1, wasn't that, and can be checked throught "some charts," and actually riding

For speed, I just grab my 300cc 2t Enduro Moto, and play for 100/120 km.

So. AVINOX, can fill the boots of many...BUT for others it's a mute between Rider and Ebike.

 

[Brawwp]

I thought I responded, YES I rode one, but only M1.
Being M2 and M2S more powerfull, it's a matter of extrapolate. But yes, I want to try one.

The "Some charts" are like dyno curves. More than willing to explain in words.

Regarding Power, personally I find funny when people talk about "powerfull" ebikes pedalec.
Even stock Surrons are like: "yeahh... funny!".

I don't chase power on ebikes, and want the better connection Rider/Machine.
AVINOX M1, wasn't that, and can be checked throught "some charts," and actually riding

For speed, I just grab my 300cc 2t Enduro Moto, and play for 100/120 km.

So. AVINOX, can fill the boots of many...BUT for others it's a mute between Rider and Ebike.

These dyno charts you’re posting and looking at are all on Turbo/boost modes. Just fyi. You can tune the avinox very simply down to feel like a pedal bike if you want. So looking at a turbo dyno curve isn’t really helpful when you don’t want to ride at that level. And imo if you’re comparing turbo max assist modes then you’d want the best one no?

I guess I don’t understand if weight is pretty much the same, why would you turn down a motor just because it CAN give you more assistance if you choose? Just don’t go into turbo and tune the other curves down as much as you want. Now if the other motors were way lighter then sure, makes sense if you will never use the higher settings, but they’re not lighter. Anyways, I was just curious if it was another reason you didn’t like it. Highly recommend you go try playing with the settings. Might change your mind, maybe not though.

 

[ZR1]

It's a bit of an odd rhetoric you see around about the avinox software tune, If bosch release the rumoued high assist ratio, does that make the bosch system a cadence based system and not emtb anymore?

you can tune it down and it'll perform like many others, you still have the benefits of fast charging, smaller motor, battery densities etc

 

[Mario Antony]

View attachment 182488These dyno charts you’re posting and looking at are all on Turbo/boost modes. Just fyi. You can tune the avinox very simply down to feel like a pedal bike if you want. So looking at a turbo dyno curve isn’t really helpful when you don’t want to ride at that level. And imo if you’re comparing turbo max assist modes then you’d want the best one no?

I guess I don’t understand if weight is pretty much the same, why would you turn down a motor just because it CAN give you more assistance if you choose? Just don’t go into turbo and tune the other curves down as much as you want. Now if the other motors were way lighter then sure, makes sense if you will never use the higher settings, but they’re not lighter. Anyways, I was just curious if it was another reason you didn’t like it. Highly recommend you go try playing with the settings. Might change your mind, maybe not though.

Thanks, and yes I've tryed all modes, but didn't changed the settings.
I'm not into BIG power values or High Torque figures.

Just want a motor, that connects to the rider.

If I can find a Avinox for 2 or 3 days, I'll give a try. But won't place any order without such experience, because what I tried, I didn't liked.

Doesen't it sound reasonable?
Not all, like the same

 

[Astro66]

Doesen't it sound reasonable?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you own a Bosch powered EMTB, and are looking to convince yourself you made the right decision. And you spend your time reading and participating in threads that help you reaffirm your EMTB choice.

So let's make this clear. I owned a 2025 Merida E160 with the new race firmware from Shimano, and at the same time I owned the new Amflow with the M1.

When I went to a Bike Park with a Shuttle Service and spent the day running Downhill Trails. As you say. There was little difference between the bikes. The Amflow a little more poppy. The Merida more stable.

But on trail rides with climbing, it was night and day difference. The climbing ability of the Avinox System is unparalleled. You can just get over bigger and more technical obstacles, with the extra power and traction.

Now lots of EMTB manufacturers have great EMTBs with great Geometry's, Kinematics and Suspension. But put an Avinox Motor system on one of these bikes, and you don't just get a great downhill bike. You get one that is so much fun uphill as well.

Anecdotally I'll provide one example. My mate also has a 2024 Merida E160 on my recommendation. When I got the Amflow, he rode my Amflow up a technical section, he had never been able to clear, and giggled the entire way up. He just loved that he now had this additional skill.

If you don't find having this extra climbing ability fun and rewarding. Then I agree. Everything you are saying is true and you will never notice any difference riding an Avinox powered EMTB. But for me. It has completely changed where I want to ride. I no longer just look for the best downhill runs. I now look for the trails with the best mix of both. And I almost never use shuttle services anymore. Why would I waste an uphill run, when it's so much fun on my EMTB.

 

[Singletrackmind]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you own a Bosch powered EMTB, and are looking to convince yourself you made the right decision. And you spend your time reading and participating in threads that help you reaffirm your EMTB choice.

So let's make this clear. I owned a 2025 Merida E160 with the new race firmware from Shimano, and at the same time I owned the new Amflow with the M1.

When I went to a Bike Park with a Shuttle Service and spent the day running Downhill Trails. As you say. There was little difference between the bikes. The Amflow a little more poppy. The Merida more stable.

But on trail rides with climbing, it was night and day difference. The climbing ability of the Avinox System is unparalleled. You can just get over bigger and more technical obstacles, with the extra power and traction.

Now lots of EMTB manufacturers have great EMTBs with great Geometry's, Kinematics and Suspension. But put an Avinox Motor system on one of these bikes, and you don't just get a great downhill bike. You get one that is so much fun uphill as well.

Anecdotally I'll provide one example. My mate also has a 2024 Merida E160 on my recommendation. When I got the Amflow, he rode my Amflow up a technical section, he had never been able to clear, and giggled the entire way up. He just loved that he now had this additional skill.

If you don't find having this extra climbing ability fun and rewarding. Then I agree. Everything you are saying is true and you will never notice any difference riding an Avinox powered EMTB. But for me. It has completely changed where I want to ride. I no longer just look for the best downhill runs. I now look for the trails with the best mix of both. And I almost never use shuttle services anymore. Why would I waste an uphill run, when it's so much fun on my EMTB.

Very well spoken! Your reasoning is spot on. I went from 2 Shimano EP8 powered bikes to 2 Bosch Gen5 powered bikes and it was night and day. Currently have 1 Avinox M2S powered bikes on order (Crestline RS181.2) and have 2nd Avinox bike I will get narrowed down to the Pivot Amp'd or the Mondraker Zendit. Want to have a full 29er set up as a climbing bike.

 

[Brawwp]

I'm not into BIG power values or High Torque figures.

Just want a motor, that connects to the rider.

I promise you I’m not trying to make you like avinox more than Bosch. I truly truly am not. I just don’t understand this. Did you not try eco mode? You didn’t mess with settings within the modes, but did you try eco and the lower powers?

It’s like everybody is blinded by the fact that the avinox CAN go to crazy power assist. Most of us don’t use turbo…. Just change it however you want.

Your second sentence is what I am trying to get you to elaborate on. The power thing is nonsense. Just don’t use turbo… Eco is not much assist at all and imo if you want less than stock eco then just use a pedal bike… so if you tried eco and still prefer Bosch, that’s what I’m trying to get you to elaborate on. That info can actually be helpful to others rather than just saying I don’t like power and torque and showing a bunch of turbo dyno curves.

Edit to add in: not trying to pick on you Mario! This is just a common theme here. People deciding against avinox because they say they don’t need that much power. Ok cool, just don’t click turbo? There’s way more to the avinox than peak torque and power. The lower settings are all amazing to me and if you think otherwise it’s good info for everyone to hear why.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

I promise you I’m not trying to make you like avinox more than Bosch. I truly truly am not. I just don’t understand this. Did you not try eco mode? You didn’t mess with settings within the modes, but did you try eco and the lower powers?

It’s like everybody is blinded by the fact that the avinox CAN go to crazy power assist. Most of us don’t use turbo…. Just change it however you want.

Your second sentence is what I am trying to get you to elaborate on. The power thing is nonsense. Just don’t use turbo… Eco is not much assist at all and imo if you want less than stock eco then just use a pedal bike… so if you tried eco and still prefer Bosch, that’s what I’m trying to get you to elaborate on. That info can actually be helpful to others rather than just saying I don’t like power and torque and showing a bunch of turbo dyno curves.

Edit to add in: not trying to pick on you Mario! This is just a common theme here. People deciding against avinox because they say they don’t need that much power. Ok cool, just don’t click turbo? There’s way more to the avinox than peak torque and power. The lower settings are all amazing to me and if you think otherwise it’s good info for everyone to hear why.

Yeah, I don't even use turbo on my Shimano motor that often - it's pretty easy to NOT use the power being offered up...it baffles me that so many people seem to think that if you have a bike with a gazillion watts and umpteen torque wanglers, you immediately start riding like a bat out of hell at 300km/h up sheer rock faces.

 

[Mario Antony]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you own a Bosch powered EMTB, and are looking to convince yourself you made the right decision. And you spend your time reading and participating in threads that help you reaffirm your EMTB choice.

So let's make this clear. I owned a 2025 Merida E160 with the new race firmware from Shimano, and at the same time I owned the new Amflow with the M1.

When I went to a Bike Park with a Shuttle Service and spent the day running Downhill Trails. As you say. There was little difference between the bikes. The Amflow a little more poppy. The Merida more stable.

But on trail rides with climbing, it was night and day difference. The climbing ability of the Avinox System is unparalleled. You can just get over bigger and more technical obstacles, with the extra power and traction.

Now lots of EMTB manufacturers have great EMTBs with great Geometry's, Kinematics and Suspension. But put an Avinox Motor system on one of these bikes, and you don't just get a great downhill bike. You get one that is so much fun uphill as well.

Anecdotally I'll provide one example. My mate also has a 2024 Merida E160 on my recommendation. When I got the Amflow, he rode my Amflow up a technical section, he had never been able to clear, and giggled the entire way up. He just loved that he now had this additional skill.

If you don't find having this extra climbing ability fun and rewarding. Then I agree. Everything you are saying is true and you will never notice any difference riding an Avinox powered EMTB. But for me. It has completely changed where I want to ride. I no longer just look for the best downhill runs. I now look for the trails with the best mix of both. And I almost never use shuttle services anymore. Why would I waste an uphill run, when it's so much fun on my EMTB.

Yes I have a Bosch
No, I don't need to plate Bosch gold, to fool myself.
What I can tell, and this is a very different prespective than yours is this:

1) I don't shuttle with an ebike. Doesn't make sense, when you have capable bikes for that.
Even if you take the battery off, ebikes are heavy for what they offer (travel and geo).

2) I don't need more power on the climbs, because with Bosch Motor, my limitations are:
a) Slip (tires breaking grip)
b) going lose and not able to maitain the line
It's Technical Climbs (basically DH trails), and the best upgrade wasn't POWER, but DETESCTRITION, allowing to speedup on some areas, and carrying that momentum - for this, I belive more power would definitely help, but in reality, would I wish for that? No...

For riders that use fireroads or even roads, I understand the Power being helpful, if you have the ebike derestricted.
I personally take these type of climbs easy, and use them to connect something or cut short the ride. Also find this really boring...

In resume:

Ebikes are less fun than BIKES on any DH trail, and IF I had chairlifts, probably wouldn't look at ebikes.
Ebikes are so fun at techy uphills, and doing different rides from the usual Bike Rides, and are the reason I have mine.

Difficult and technical climbs, require a good connection between rider and motor, and Avinox M1, is not one of those motors, but I'll give a try on the new or an old and fiddle with all the settings.

My next ebike, won't be an Avinox type.
SL are too low in power, so I'm just waiting for more poke on motors like TQ HPR60, like 80...90Nm (it's "only" 20 to 30Nm more).
A Trek Slash, with an updated motor as above, would make a delicious ebike.
Hope Shimano heads this way, and not the MO'POWA way.

And btw... when I look at Avinox bikes, what really poke into the eye is:
Price
Geometry & Geometry adjustability
Fast charging 12A

Power... it could have ½, and I nothing would change on my side.

PS: I'm not against MO'POWA. I'm all on favor for that matter, but doesn't mean, it will suit me or I like it.
BMW sells GS1200/1250/1300 with much less poke than 1290/1390 or Multistradas, and you don't see GS owners complaining about power or not buying because of less power.

 

[Astro66]

Yes I have a Bosch

Thanks. All I needed to know ........

Only kidding. You sound like an old school MTB rider. And there is nothing wrong with that. Lower powered EMTBs will be perfect for you.

I'm a technology advocate. I want EMTBs pushed to be cutting edge. Avinox appears to be more focussed on that. So yes. We have very different perspectives.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Like how the threads gone from some guy feeling bad about a purchase to random people saying why they love bosch motors. "Heres all the reasons!" no one cares, the guys talking about new vs old amflow.