Urgent Request to E-Bike Manufacturers: Race Mode

[sethimus]

All I see with this idea is that it would be the fitested and most skilled riders that would come out on top, in that case just stick to non powered bikes

o rly? that’s the point if a race. even if you limit the power, you still have lighter riders with an advantage as with motors with more support/different power curve. hence why it never will be „fair“. therefore, results are pointless.

 

[Pizzman]

Echoooo

Echoo

Echo

A slight difference of opinion does not an echo chamber make.

You expressed your idea. Some agreed, some didn’t. That’s all that happened.
No need to get all pissy. We can put your idea on the fridge, next to your brothers dog drawing.

Do not confuse public forum with echo chamber.

 

[Wilbur]

You’re right, that’s exactly the point. I don’t have an acoustic bike anymore, but I still enjoy the thrill of fair competition. From the responses here, it’s pretty clear I’m not like most people on this forum. Sorry for interrupting the echo chamber.

Having been a club committee member for 20yrs, I’ve seen that emtbs have killed stamina events where they have been allowed to participate, even in their own class. And as many people leave mtb for emtb, there are fewer people who want to compete in the sport. XC is dead now but for handful of elite riders.
Enduro holds out as it is largely a gravity event but batteries take the edge off the fitness requirement.

Emtbs have made mtbing a recreation rather than a competition. I can’t see how regulation could change that.

 

[TTEngineer]

If you really want to make things equal the entire system (rider+bike+equipment) should all be the same weight. That way it narrows down the competition to skill and endurance alone.

The reason: 150lb rider will use far less battery than a 220lb rider.

Option 2 would be to equal out power to weight ratio across the board. Since a lighter rider would be at a disadvantage with a super heavy bike compared to a heavy rider with a light bike.

Option 3: weight classes. I think some races already have a Clydesdale category.

 

[FrogSkunk]

Thank you for your comment. eMTB races are already a growing reality worldwide. The UCI has set a limit of 750 W and 25 km/h for its official competitions in 2026.

My suggestion to implement a temporary limiter in the apps of various manufacturers is simply intended to make it easier for more competitors to take part in races worldwide.

Or have power classes? 600/750/1000? Might be easier than trying to have all these other companies collaborate to implement a race mode. Idk, thats all I got lol

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

You’re right, that’s exactly the point. I don’t have an acoustic bike anymore, but I still enjoy the thrill of fair competition. From the responses here, it’s pretty clear I’m not like most people on this forum. Sorry for interrupting the echo chamber.

I think its a neat idea for a race... everyone having equal maximum assist, torque, power and speed. However, how do you realistically implement it?

Initially when I read your post, it sounded like you wanted a feature to "unlock" the power/speed to its "maximum" for a set duration, i.e. the race. This could potentially violate the ebike's classification (I, II, III) and/or local laws. Thus what would stop folks from using this feature elsewhere...

Now, if you propose a feature to "limit" maximum power/speed... that's a different story. Hypothetically, the racer with the least powerful and most speed restrictive bike is where the limit is drawn for each race. Thus other competitors may need to detune their bikes.

This second scenario wouldn't pose are legal issues, but I doubt manufacturers are interested in creating specialized software for this. I don't follow eMTB racing, but I bet rules allow for a certain amount of power/speed and participants are going to choose bikes that are competitive. I realize, your talking about amateur racing and as such, there's only so much that can be done realistically.

Maybe tiered classes for power/speed would level the competition and that's easy to do. At the end of the day, go race and have fun.

 

[Waynemarlow]

What is the one part of the bike that is equal to all EBikes ? The battery. Amps x volts = Watts. So record maximum watts used at the battery. Set a limit of say 750Watts and its up to the rider to ensure they stay below that level by setting max outputs. We all have CAN readouts of our batteries, a simple readout display of max battery watts could be verified at display or App level by race organisers.

To ensure fairness and prevent App / battery readout tampering, then use the rules of an American motor racing class that limits power to a set level so all racing is equal. Any fellow competitor can buy your motor for the cost of a standard dealer bought motor. Soon sorted the really hot blue printed engines.

 

[Onetime]

Having been a club committee member for 20yrs, I’ve seen that emtbs have killed stamina events where they have been allowed to participate, even in their own class. And as many people leave mtb for emtb, there are fewer people who want to compete in the sport. XC is dead now but for handful of elite riders.
Enduro holds out as it is largely a gravity event but batteries take the edge off the fitness requirement.

Emtbs have made mtbing a recreation rather than a competition. I can’t see how regulation could change that.

Have you ever actually tried pushing an ebike to the limits, going as fast as you can for an hour or more up and down technical terrain? I don’t think you have. Because if you have, you wouldn’t have said that e-bikes have “killed stamina events” or “batteries take the edge off the fitness requirement”. It’s actually quite taxing, motor or not. You do actually need to be fit if you want to win. The least fit person will still finish last baring any mechanicals from other racers. And to the original poster, you do realize that we already have World Cup e-enduro races and they already have a means to for equalizing the different motors speed and power right? So we don’t need any new special limiters. We can already do that. And to the people who don’t understand why anyone would want to race on an ebike, it’s a competition, just like any other, you race to win, and for the fun, for the excitement of pushing as hard as you can and seeing how you compare to the competition. Those that don’t understand or can’t imagine why anyone would want to race e-bikes either have never raced anything before or they just don’t have the competitive drive to compete against others. Have you ever seen motocross or supercross races? It takes skill and fitness to be competitive, even with a motor. And bonus, it’s super fun! And manufacturers also like it, because what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.

 

[sethimus]

If you really want to make things equal the entire system (rider+bike+equipment) should all be the same weight. That way it narrows down the competition to skill and endurance alone.

The reason: 150lb rider will use far less battery than a 220lb rider.

Option 2 would be to equal out power to weight ratio across the board. Since a lighter rider would be at a disadvantage with a super heavy bike compared to a heavy rider with a light bike.

Option 3: weight classes. I think some races already have a Clydesdale category.

option 4: allow only a 800wh max but make it 2500hm of mandatory elevation. you are only allowed to use one battery. make them conserve their juice. will make the geriatric fatties cry though

 

[KillerbeeDH]

The only objective of the system is to ensure that the motor has no influence on the result of a given race and that the best athlete wins. Is that really so difficult to understand?

There is already an entire culture dedicated to this. I don't relate to how or why it needs to change, just because people choose not to buy an un-motorized bike, something that has been the romantic idea of self-powered freedom for hundreds of years. Does the world really need another motorized 2 wheel competition. I am old, I dont race but if I did I would prefer to see more age classes in old fashioned fitness racing, than an e-bike effort. I do understand what you are going for here, a secure app that placates already existing power restrictions across various power platforms. Restrictor plate concept. It just feels like we are coming up with lazier ways to be lazy. Cant get it out of my head. Then again, nothing feels natural or normal until it is, and some eggs have to be broken.

Just another opinion.

 

[KillerbeeDH]

There is another area you have to contend with, aftermarket signal fooler harnesses. Cheating on the electronic level.

 

[Albertocsoares]

Have you ever actually tried pushing an ebike to the limits, going as fast as you can for an hour or more up and down technical terrain? I don’t think you have. Because if you have, you wouldn’t have said that e-bikes have “killed stamina events” or “batteries take the edge off the fitness requirement”. It’s actually quite taxing, motor or not. You do actually need to be fit if you want to win. The least fit person will still finish last baring any mechanicals from other racers. And to the original poster, you do realize that we already have World Cup e-enduro races and they already have a means to for equalizing the different motors speed and power right? So we don’t need any new special limiters. We can already do that. And to the people who don’t understand why anyone would want to race on an ebike, it’s a competition, just like any other, you race to win, and for the fun, for the excitement of pushing as hard as you can and seeing how you compare to the competition. Those that don’t understand or can’t imagine why anyone would want to race e-bikes either have never raced anything before or they just don’t have the competitive drive to compete against others. Have you ever seen motocross or supercross races? It takes skill and fitness to be competitive, even

You are right, check my heart rate during a race last year. (I am 61)

 

[fimbles]

The Race Mode should be implemented in all brands’ apps so that different e-bikes can compete under equal conditions.

It could work as follows:

The user would be able to limit:

- Maximum speed
- Maximum torque
- Maximum power

The user would also define how many hours the bike system would remain locked with these settings, without allowing changes during that period.

Giant ebikes have a feature where you can set the power limit for diffrent modes. you can only set them in the app. so you could set all power levels the same. and pressing the on bike buttons would do nothing.

 

[patdam]

You are right, check my heart rate during a race last year. (I am 61)

View attachment 179163

View attachment 179164

61 years old and you are motivated by your ranking to participate ? You have missed something in your life man.
Too late now.

 

[Mr-EPIC]

In Brazil, we have a major eMTB competition with more than 300 competitors using different motor systems, such as Shimano (600 W), Bosch (750 W), Specialized (650 W / 850 W), and Avinox (1000 W). This large difference in power means that many athletes with lower-power bikes choose not to participate in the race.

The suggestion is to implement a power and speed limiter in the apps of the different manufacturers. This limiter would work for a predetermined period of time, temporarily making all bikes equal in terms of performance and ensuring a fair competition.

Here in the USA some of the race org's are starting to implement race div by Class-1 & Class-3 or -100Nm or +100Nm

 

[Suns_PSD]

I like the idea of just limiting the battery size to 850watts with no battery exchanges or charging allowed and the course being a total battery drainer. It would make efficiency and weight a factor, which is in fact a factor for the general public buying these bikes.

Then you just have an open class for people above that.

Cheating in bicycle racing is so common and these motors make it a whole other thing I just don't see how you could regulate the power output.

 

[Albertocsoares]

61 years old and you are motivated by your ranking to participate ? You have missed something in your life man.
Too late now.

On the contrary, I’ve always enjoyed competitions throughout my life; eMTB is just my latest passion. This morning I was at the lake running a few buoys at 11.25 m in slalom water skiing.

 

[GaryA77]

Maybe I don’t totally understand but if this is about having E-Bikes in a regular bike race this is about as unfair as having “Biological males” in female sports.

 

[Albertocsoares]

Maybe I don’t totally understand but if this is about having E-Bikes in a regular bike race this is about as unfair as having “Biological males” in female sports.

You did not understand, try reading all messages, it helps

 

[DirkWisely]

Sounds like a good idea with no downsides.

You also get to a fair place without any such restriction if your race is long enough it'll drain any e-bike system that isn't set to a lower power mode. Then the riders can choose if they want more assist for less time or less assist for more time.

 

[Plummet]

Well, those people bagging e-bike racing on this thread simply havent e-bike raced.
Go out and do a race and report back if its easier or not competitive.....

Now i get whatop is trying to achieve. But why would a manufacturer want to limit its power and reduce its advantage? That manufacture is selling a shit ton of motors/bikes because of int

This will not work as a manufacturer delf imposed thing. It would have to be a race organiser or governing body imposed specification

Right now every brand has and app that can limit speed, torque and wattage. So this could already be occuring, other than riders will just switch the settings back to gain the unfair advantage again.

My suggestion would be a dongle plugs into the e bike and measures output. If the bike exceeds the race specs then the rider is disqualified.

PS. I have raced XC, Enduro, and dh on my e-bike and mtb. XC is were the motor makes most of the difference. An average racer with a more powerful motor or higher cut out will beat a good racer with a less powerful motor. For enduro, the E helps with the pedal up to the start of the race and thats about it. Ok theres some flat bits where the E is faster but there is also sections are above motor cut out a typically slower than an mtb. In generally for enduro racing the fastest racer still wins. E dh racing is basically allowing a category for people who only own and e-bike. The dh bike is the faster bike in a dh race unless that dh race has some serious flat sections too it.

 

[Albertocsoares]

Sounds like a good idea with no downsides.

You also get to a fair place without any such restriction if your race is long enough it'll drain any e-bike system that isn't set to a lower power mode. Then the riders can choose if they want more assist for less time or less assist for more time.

The idea is good: limit the battery capacity and have a race with a lot of elevation gain and distance. The problem is that a stronger motor makes a difference on technical climbs; many times it’s the difference between clearing the climb or having to push the bike.

 

[Albertocsoares]

Well, those people bagging e-bike racing on this thread simply havent e-bike raced.
Go out and do a race and report back if its easier or not competitive.....

Now i get whatop is trying to achieve. But why would a manufacturer want to limit its power and reduce its advantage? That manufacture is selling a shit ton of motors/bikes because of int

This will not work as a manufacturer delf imposed thing. It would have to be a race organiser or governing body imposed specification

Right now every brand has and app that can limit speed, torque and wattage. So this could already be occuring, other than riders will just switch the settings back to gain the unfair advantage again.

My suggestion would be a dongle plugs into the e bike and measures output. If the bike exceeds the race specs then the rider is disqualified.

PS. I have raced XC, Enduro, and dh on my e-bike and mtb. XC is were the motor makes most of the difference. An average racer with a more powerful motor or higher cut out will beat a good racer with a less powerful motor. For enduro, the E helps with the pedal up to the start of the race and thats about it. Ok theres some flat bits where the E is faster but there is also sections are above motor cut out a typically slower than an mtb. In generally for enduro racing the fastest racer still wins. E dh racing is basically allowing a category for people who only own and e-bike. The dh bike is the faster bike in a dh race unless that dh race has some serious flat sections too it.

The idea is that the manufacturers’ apps allow limiting power and speed (which already exists today), but also include an option to lock changes for a predetermined period of time. During the technical inspection with the jury, the athlete would make the reductions and then lock the app for X hours—enough time to complete the race.

 

[Plummet]

The idea is that the manufacturers’ apps allow limiting power and speed (which already exists today), but also include an option to lock changes for a predetermined period of time. During the technical inspection with the jury, the athlete would make the reductions and then lock the app for X hours—enough time to complete the race.

I dont see that working in practice. Too many ways to circumvent the system.

 

[Wilbur]

I mainly ride emtb these days and don’t bother with events unless they’re just for fun. Used to race XC, 12/24 marathons, enduros etc.

If you want a level playing field where the rider is objectively the main component in winning: just race a mtb. It’s so fricking simple… and cheaper!

 

[OldnSlow]

The idea is that the manufacturers’ apps allow limiting power and speed (which already exists today), but also include an option to lock changes for a predetermined period of time. During the technical inspection with the jury, the athlete would make the reductions and then lock the app for X hours—enough time to complete the race.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that our branch of the sport (emtb riding and racing) is in its infancy and it will evolve like any other. Not all new ideas that emerge will be good ideas, some will be discarded, some will be eclipsed by changes to technology, others by better ideas. Is that not the purpose of competition?

 

[Suns_PSD]

The idea is good: limit the battery capacity and have a race with a lot of elevation gain and distance. The problem is that a stronger motor makes a difference on technical climbs; many times it’s the difference between clearing the climb or having to push the bike.

That would add to the strategy. You'd probably have riders choosing the power level that conserved the most while giving them enough to clear the climbs.

You also might have riders switching the motor off entirely on the transfers to save precious battery juice, making easy pedaling of the e-bike motor another priority spec decision.

It would reward fitness as much as any bicycle sport.

 

[Onetime]

61 years old and you are motivated by your ranking to participate ? You have missed something in your life man.
Too late now.

You do know they have age brackets in all forms of racing right? They have the senior race divisions just for,,,,,,, Guess what,,,,,Older folks! I’m about the same age as the op and I love to go fast and compete. And I in fact have several Strava KOM’s that include all age riders on e-bikes. As soon as you stop trying, you might as well go to an old folks home and wait to die. What a shitty outlook, SMH It’s not too late to participate. I’ll ride and race until I physically can’t anymore. But I’ll still be out there trying and having a blast doing it!

 

[Onetime]

I like the idea of just limiting the battery size to 850watts with no battery exchanges or charging allowed and the course being a total battery drainer. It would make efficiency and weight a factor, which is in fact a factor for the general public buying these bikes.

Then you just have an open class for people above that.

Cheating in bicycle racing is so common and these motors make it a whole other thing I just don't see how you could regulate the power output.

It’s already being done. Look it up in the UCI rule book. That’s how they’ve have the e-ews races for the last several years.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It’s already being done. Look it up in the UCI rule book. That’s how they’ve have the e-ews races for the last several years.

Sure, there are rules. But hidden buttons or other tricks to release more power, etc. will always exist.

54# ready to ride weight (could adjust it by 1# up/ down based on bike RAD) limit and battery max size seems like a workable solution otherwise it would be easy to create a 60#+ behemoth that would be faster than everything.