shenzi105
New Member
Very interesting enduro e-mtb, with just enough e-assist to help but low enough to fee like a normal bicycle.
Now I wasn't expecting that: Orbea Rallon RS
- Thread starter shenzi105
- Start date
Seems pretty silly to me.
Enduro bike performance at top end e-bike prices.
The KSL suffered from a similar affliction, the additional weight uses up most of the motor performance. Might as well just build a standard acoustic enduro bike that'll be 5 pounds lighter and pedal pretty much the same.
They'd have sold a stack of these if it had a variant with the 60 motor and a 580wh.
In a vacuum without financial considerations this could be considered superior to an acoustic enduro bike.
With cost factored in it is borderline laughable.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
Kudos for them offering something that is different but this part of the Pinkbike pretty much sums up my feelings, summarized:
• If you think you’ll be able to keep up with riders on full powered e-bikes, you won’t .... The on-trail difference between 40 Nm and a motor with 100 or 120 Nm of torque is huge, and you’ll quickly be left in the dust.
• It does make steep climbs easier, just not by a massive amount. The difference the motor makes is similar to what you’d experience by running XC tires instead of DH casing tires - it’s noticeable, but not earth-shattering. During the test period I did the first half of a ride with the motor off, riding with friend on non-motorized bikes. After those initial laps, which totaled 2,300 vert of climbing, I turned the motor on and headed out on my own to repeat what we’d just done. The thing is, that second lap didn’t feel all that different. Yes, it was easier, but not that much easier. That’s the part of this bike that’s tricky to wrap my brain around; the motor assistance is subtle enough that I didn’t miss it all that much when it wasn’t on.
• If you think you’ll be able to keep up with riders on full powered e-bikes, you won’t .... The on-trail difference between 40 Nm and a motor with 100 or 120 Nm of torque is huge, and you’ll quickly be left in the dust.
• It does make steep climbs easier, just not by a massive amount. The difference the motor makes is similar to what you’d experience by running XC tires instead of DH casing tires - it’s noticeable, but not earth-shattering. During the test period I did the first half of a ride with the motor off, riding with friend on non-motorized bikes. After those initial laps, which totaled 2,300 vert of climbing, I turned the motor on and headed out on my own to repeat what we’d just done. The thing is, that second lap didn’t feel all that different. Yes, it was easier, but not that much easier. That’s the part of this bike that’s tricky to wrap my brain around; the motor assistance is subtle enough that I didn’t miss it all that much when it wasn’t on.
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Again it does help a bit, certainly way less that the 50nm I have which I find the bare minimum for the added weight, the major point is that having such a small battery is the worst part, you really cannot use the turbo and are stuck somehow to a lower assistance mode to have a correct session - and I am just totally unsure you can have a valid session to match the bike quality, meaning huge/long climb.
So in the end totally useless.
So in the end totally useless.
Love the idea of this Rallon RS, perhaps not surprising as my favourite ever is a Levo SL with only 35Nm.
I could see the geometry being better suited to some of my high country trails, I actually prefer to put some work in, and the integrated nature of the tech is interesting.
Would love to test ride one, but sadly can’t see me ever justifying the best part of £10k to own even the cheapest version.
Hopefully the idea and motor/battery trickles down into some more sensibly priced models.
I could see the geometry being better suited to some of my high country trails, I actually prefer to put some work in, and the integrated nature of the tech is interesting.
Would love to test ride one, but sadly can’t see me ever justifying the best part of £10k to own even the cheapest version.
Hopefully the idea and motor/battery trickles down into some more sensibly priced models.
doochenozzle
Member
The ebike for people who have never tried it and think they don’t like ebiking.
Great looking bike, but the "e" part makes no sense whatsoever. Why not just buy a normal Rallon at that point, since any adde benefit of such a measly motor/battery is probably negated by added weight. Orbea has had a good nose for e-bike trends the past couple years, but I think this one is a total whiff. I'd be surprised if they manage to sell more than a couple...
Good example why some bike companies are struggling.
For 14k being a newbie is really expensive these days!
It’s certainly a niche within a niche, but the small motor with small battery concept for getting a slightly heavier bike over a standard Rallon up a hill makes sense to me.
I’m not yet old and knackered enough that I can’t get up hills on a non powered mtb, but if I could have something light and enduro to enjoy going back down the hills that it’s just taken the misery out of climbing then why not?
They’ve said at launch that they’re not planning to sell many, but it’s far too expensive is my only complaint about it.
I don't get the point of this. The HPR60 is only 800g more and works with the 290wh battery also. They should have just spec'd it with that, it would have widened the appeal. People who want min assist can just tune it to their desired settings.
Orbea is saying this is a “development“ bike to test full tech integration into the battery system. That sounds like a good excuse, but they could have done the same with a full power bike and offered it in limited quantities and achieved the same thing. The TQ40 is a single clutch design so it is a kick-back king that Orbea says they will fix through software soon 
. I think this bike was a miss, because people are not going to spring the money this bike commands for a 40Nm motor that has kick back. Not sure I see what crowd Orbea was trying to appeal to for this one?
. I think this bike was a miss, because people are not going to spring the money this bike commands for a 40Nm motor that has kick back. Not sure I see what crowd Orbea was trying to appeal to for this one?
Same when they say they don't want an Avinox motor because it's too powerful - bizarre!
The HPR60 motor plus range extender would please a lot more riders . . TBF they still wouldn't buy it at 15k!
Back when I was still trying to pretend that I didn't ride e-bikes, this would have made great sense. But I don't think that this will be a sales success in any way. At this point we have a power race occurring.
I think the HP60 is sort of the bare minimum to have to plug in a bike and the extra money spent on this could have been better spent on making a higher quality/ lighter analog bike.
I think the HP60 is sort of the bare minimum to have to plug in a bike and the extra money spent on this could have been better spent on making a higher quality/ lighter analog bike.
Bet this is more fun to ride than a 26kg ff
Down yes, up no.
I'd not ride a 26kg ebike either. Does anyone even make one that heavy anymore ?
Agreed that the hp60 is the bare minimum required to make an e-bike worthwhile for the weight and money.
Yeti would have had things figured out if they'd offered the lte with the hp60.
Similarly, orbea threw a massive airball here. The rallon with the hp 60, selectable 580wh or 290wh batteries and that level of integration would have been an amazing bike. I'd have purchased one already.
Plummet
Flash Git
Yeah, not my idea of fun. I might as well ride my mtb, then im not limited to battery range of a tiny battery.
Then when the battery goes flat you have a heavier bike..... if you have the fitness to pedal the heavier bike around there's no need for the e.....
A stupid idea.
Then when the battery goes flat you have a heavier bike..... if you have the fitness to pedal the heavier bike around there's no need for the e.....
A stupid idea.
They’ve already done that, this is that analog bike but with ‘RS integration’ and a mild motor and small battery treatment.
I can think of plenty of my rides and locations where this would work for me, price excepted, but by its very nature it won’t work for everybody, yourself included by the sounds of it.
I don’t get why everything has to be dismissed because it isn’t exactly what somebody wants. Choice and all that.
I’m not sure, 40Nm and 200w of assistance is certainly useful over a non powered e-bike, but certainly accept it isn’t for everybody and so is a stupid idea to them.
It is a very good looking EMTB and I bet on the downhill it rides like a dream. I just don’t think there is a market for a 40Nm single clutch kick back motor. Now Obrea right out of the gate has to promise a software update that will hopefully mask the issue. Testers said they basically turned the bike off on the descents because the kick back was distracting.
Maybe there is a market out there for a very expensive 40Nm EMTB but I just don’t see it.
Maybe there is a market out there for a very expensive 40Nm EMTB but I just don’t see it.
They essentially do albeit with a bit less travel.
MTe - Yeti Cycles
The MTe is how Yeti does the lightweight eMTB. Killer Mountain Bike first. Sixfinity suspension, TQ HPR60 drive unit, dialed all-mountain bike geometry. Designed to amplify every facet of new-school trail riding. Feel the Good Guilt.
yeticycles.com
Yes, it’s the ‘expense’ bit that turns it on its head for me, makes my carbon 35Nm Levo SL look quite the bargain.
That’s some achievement!
BAh30
Active member
Plummet
Flash Git
Until the small battery is flat, then its heavier and worse to pedal than the mtb. Which is my main point. This design is too limited to only a short amount of time before its worse than the mtb.
I don’t consider nearly 90 mins at the max 200w assistance, longer if you’re putting more effort in, a ‘short amount of time’?
It would certainly help get me up some big UK climbs, with plenty of down to enjoy, but I accept that NZ where you are is probably a different proposition and scale.
The motor peak Watts to Watt Hour battery size ratio isn’t that different to my Gen 1 Levo (240w-320Wh), and I know I can get some good rides in on that, but it’s a trail bike and something longer travel but still light would be of interest.
EMTB for me is getting more accessibility taking away some of the misery out of the climbs or to the trailhead slog, I don’t need or want a particularly powerful bike.
That price though…
Anyway, interesting to read people’s views on it, hopefully it’ll bomb and I can buy one in the resultant 70% off firesale!
Plummet
Flash Git
I don’t consider nearly 90 mins at the max 200w assistance, longer if you’re putting more effort in, a ‘short amount of time’?
It would certainly help get me up some big UK climbs, with plenty of down to enjoy, but I accept that NZ where you are is probably a different proposition and scale.
The motor peak Watts to Watt Hour battery size ratio isn’t that different to my Gen 1 Levo (240w-320Wh), and I know I can get some good rides in on that, but it’s a trail bike and something longer travel but still light would be of interest.
EMTB for me is getting more accessibility taking away some of the misery out of the climbs or to the trailhead slog, I don’t need or want a particularly powerful bike.
That price though…
Anyway, interesting to read people’s views on it, hopefully it’ll bomb and I can buy one in the resultant 70% off firesale!
I fully get the short session light bike idea. I have a 400wh in my full power bike for that. But then I can chuck my 600wh in and go for 3.5 hours or do a dual day like today fir 5 hours plus.
90 mins is way to short for me if that's my only configuration for that bike. Plus it will be a slow 90 mins compared to my full power 90 mins.
If I want to go slow ip for 90 mins or more I take my mtb......
Anyway, someone will enjoy it. Probably someone who wants to ride with their mtb mates but lacks a bit of fitness. This would give that little bit of pep to help you keep up with your fitter mtb mates.
They essentially do albeit with a bit less travel.
MTe - Yeti Cycles
The MTe is how Yeti does the lightweight eMTB. Killer Mountain Bike first. Sixfinity suspension, TQ HPR60 drive unit, dialed all-mountain bike geometry. Designed to amplify every facet of new-school trail riding. Feel the Good Guilt.
I've ridden an mte.
The LTE would be what we want in terms of travel and geo. The mte is a bit too "trail" for my local terrain.
The LTE is a bit on the porky side. It would have been ideal with the hpr60, particularly with the ability to swap batteries and battery sizes.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Super cool looking bike, but I definitely don't see much of a market. $15k is so much money for what is basically a bicycle.
There is a debate right now if the SL market (60Nm) will even survive in the next few years. The word is, the SL bikes are not selling compared to the full power bikes. Just like analog, manufactures are diverting R&D from SL over to full power because that is where the revenue Is coming from by a wide margin. Certainly you would think Orbea knows this since they have been doing EMTB for a little while? It just seems odd they would put so much engineering hours in a package based on a 40Nm motor and say is a “development” bike to for complete integration into the battery…for $13K?
No bias here, as I have a 50Nm SL and a full power EMTB.
No bias here, as I have a 50Nm SL and a full power EMTB.
