Help me decide - light eMTB

[Hawk13]

Good morning,

I am new to EMTB having spent all of my time on an XC hard tail (and a BMX before that) but shot knees from playing rugby have led me to conclude that EMTB is the way forward. I have ridden a few over the years but was never sold due to massive weight and lack of 'feel' in single track and less technical descents.

Recently I have ridden a Trek Exe 9.5 and loved it. The TQ50 motor helped me when I needed it but wasn't intrusive and was relatively light. Don't get me wrong, coming from a 10kg hardtail it is very noticeable but manageable.

I have also ridden my mates Orbea Rise H20 which offerred more power and range but I am not sure I can deal with the motor rattle (and various other squeaks!)

And so I have been doing some research. Well a lot actually.

I have a budget of around £4k, want to be able to trial ride with a focus on singe track and speed but I still want to be able to hit a few tabletops and have narrowed it down to the following (being currently available on deals):

Trek Fuel Exe (be it 9.7, 9.8 or 8) depending on deal - love the motor, looks and the way it rides. Also liking a removable battery. LBS is a dealer.

Specialised Levo SL - not ridden one (yet) but understand motor is similar to TQ50. LBS is a dealer.

Mondraker Sly R - again not ridden one but seems to tick all of my boxes apart from no local dealer.

I also considered an Orbea Rise (like the power and range but discounted due motor rattle - am I being daft?) and Canyon Spectral On fly CF (put off by lack of dealer network).

Any thoughts? Anything I have missed as a contender? There seem to be lots of deals out there at the moment so very probably have overlooked something due to RRP.

 

[RustyMTB]

Not an sl guy so can't discuss the realtive merits but would point out Balfe's bikes are discounting the Fuel exe quite heavily right now if bang for buck is important.

 

[Hawk13]

Not an sl guy so can't discuss the realtive merits but would point out Balfe's bikes are discounting the Fuel exe quite heavily right now if bang for buck is important.

Thanks Rusty - I've seen the deals and very tempted to pull the trigger on a 9.8.

Or a 9.7 with a spare battery for the same money.
But to be honest, and although money isn't my primary consideration, £4k is a lot of money and I want to get the right bike.

 

[Doomanic]

There's well priced EXEs on there, probably because the new model is available.

 

[mtnrider]

I recently test rode a Levo SL for a day, it was easy to maneuver and play around with on the trails, loved the mullet setup on it, absolutely loved the bike. Power was just enough to help out but not overwhelming. The biggest downside for me was the battery life, at 320wh it’s just to small unless you are doing short, quick rides. I am ~160lbs with gear and was riding 55% in eco mode, 40% in trail and about 5% turbo and covered about 1800ft elevation gain and about 16 miles and the battery was down to 30%. I imagine running it all on trail mode (which is more realistic) would really cut down that distance. Unfortunately, that kind of killed that option for me. A range extender is not an option I want, I prefer to have the space for a water bottle. If they threw a 500-600wh battery in that bike it would be awesome.

 

[Hawk13]

I recently test rode a Levo SL for a day, it was easy to maneuver and play around with on the trails, loved the mullet setup on it, absolutely loved the bike. Power was just enough to help out but not overwhelming. The biggest downside for me was the battery life, at 320wh it’s just to small unless you are doing short, quick rides. I am ~160lbs with gear and was riding 55% in eco mode, 40% in trail and about 5% turbo and covered about 1800ft elevation gain and about 16 miles and the battery was down to 30%. I imagine running it all on trail mode (which is more realistic) would really cut down that distance. Unfortunately, that kind of killed that option for me. A range extender is not an option I want, I prefer to have the space for a water bottle. If they threw a 500-600wh battery in that bike it would be awesome.

Wow - my simple maths extends that to around 20 miles while spending half time in eco. That is lower than my experience with a TQ motor and similar sized battery.

I tend to ride with a camel pack vs bottle so losing that space is not really a consideration for me

 

[VWsurfbum]

Another thing to consider on an SL, you need SL friends. Cant mix and match SL's with analogues or full fats.

 

[Doomanic]

Another thing to consider on an SL, you need SL friends. Cant mix and match SL's with analogues or full fats.

Of course you can, it just requires the people on the most powerful bikes to not be dicks. I ride with people that include analogue, SL and FF bikes and as we're not dicks (a shocker to all who know me, obviously) it works fine. It does help that the analogue riders are fit as a butcher's dog, but they don't need to be for it to work. If you ride with Full Fat Turbo Twats then you're obviously going to be left for dead on every climb.

 

[Hawk13]

Of course you can, it just requires the people on the most powerful bikes to not be dicks. I ride with people that include analogue, SL and FF bikes and as we're not dicks (a shocker to all who know me, obviously) it works fine. It does help that the analogue riders are fit as a butcher's dog, but they don't need to be for it to work. If you ride with Full Fat Turbo Twats then you're obviously going to be left for dead on every climb.

Agreed. I was at Coed Y Brenin a few weeks back with a few on full fat EMTBs and the rest of us on (predominantly) XC bikes. OK we chose the trails accordingly but, as Doomanic says, as long as they are not dicks, it isn't a problem.

Much like riding with any group of mates - you wait for the slowest rider.

 

[deserthi]

Look into Bimotal Elevate motor kit for your $10K hardtail. You will be glad you did.

 

[steve_sordy]

The standard advice (standard for a reason) is that for your first emtb, buy locally. By local I mean a distance that you are prepared to commute to. Be prepared to drive there with your bike, drop it off for them to fix the unfixable problem that you have with the battery/motor/software/wiring/display/charger etc (ie all the stuff you have no experience of). They will ask you to leave it with them so you drive home. Just as you get home, they send you a text "Your bike is ready for collection".

Or worse, the above happens, but when you drive back to collect it, they haven't fixed the problem at all because it was a loose wire or a trapped wire or some other intermittent fault. Learn from my experience!!

All of that is bad enough when your commute is, let's say, an hour away. But if where you bought the bike from is far enough to consider posting the bike, then OMG!!

You like the Trek and your LBS is a dealer. Do the right thing and buy there. He may be able to move part way to matching an internet dealer because he knows that you will be coming to him for servicing, spares etc. And you do want him to stay in business, don't you?

 

[Emailsucks98]

Wow - my simple maths extends that to around 20 miles while spending half time in eco. That is lower than my experience with a TQ motor and similar sized battery.

It really comes down to rider weight/strength. I had a Fuel EXe for 2.5yrs and 90% of my rides were right around 3000' of vert. A few times I got 3800'. Probably the worst was trying to keep up with full power bikes in boost mode, I killed a battery in 2000'. I'm 180lbs.

I found the range was actually about the same in trail as it was in Eco. As long as you are matching or exceeding the motor wattage output the range can be very good.

 

[Hawk13]

Look into Bimotal Elevate motor kit for your $10K hardtail. You will be glad you did.

Thanks but I want to keep my hardtail (which is 10kg = 22lbs btw and not 10,000 USD) as is ...and the motor kit is hardly what I would describe as an elegant solution.

 

[Hawk13]

The standard advice (standard for a reason) is that for your first emtb, buy locally. By local I mean a distance that you are prepared to commute to. Be prepared to drive there with your bike, drop it off for them to fix the unfixable problem that you have with the battery/motor/software/wiring/display/charger etc (ie all the stuff you have no experience of). They will ask you to leave it with them so you drive home. Just as you get home, they send you a text "Your bike is ready for collection".

Or worse, the above happens, but when you drive back to collect it, they haven't fixed the problem at all because it was a loose wire or a trapped wire or some other intermittent fault. Learn from my experience!!

All of that is bad enough when your commute is, let's say, an hour away. But if where you bought the bike from is far enough to consider posting the bike, then OMG!!

You like the Trek and your LBS is a dealer. Do the right thing and buy there. He may be able to move part way to matching an internet dealer because he knows that you will be coming to him for servicing, spares etc. And you do want him to stay in business, don't you?

Agreed - that was my primary reason for not buying a Canyon.

If I land on Specialized or Trek, LBS will be given first refusal (unless they are wildly uncompetetive on price)

 

[Hawk13]

It really comes down to rider weight/strength. I had a Fuel EXe for 2.5yrs and 90% of my rides were right around 3000' of vert. A few times I got 3800'. Probably the worst was trying to keep up with full power bikes in boost mode, I killed a battery in 2000'. I'm 180lbs.

I found the range was actually about the same in trail as it was in Eco. As long as you are matching or exceeding the motor wattage output the range can be very good.

Good to know - thanks

 

[Emailsucks98]

Of course you can, it just requires the people on the most powerful bikes to not be dicks.

Sorry to say, I agree 100%!

 

[deserthi]

Thanks but I want to keep my hardtail (which is 10kg = 22lbs btw and not 10,000 USD) as is ...and the motor kit is hardly what I would describe as an elegant solution.

I beg to differ with you. The Bimotal elevate kit can be removed in less than 5 minutes and reinstalled in the same. Very elegant. It seems you have not look into it.

 

[Hawk13]

It seems you have not look into it.

You are correct - I looked at pics and thought it looked shite and didn't go any further.

But is is also not really an option for me as 2200 USD plus import duties is a chunk of change and still leaves me with a hard tail (I am also after a move to full suspension.)

Appreciate you bringing it to my attention all the same

 

[deserthi]

No problem, I ordered one because I wanted the lightest emtb on the mountain. I am adding that kit to my 26lb Intense Sniper full suspension mtb.

 

[Hob Nob]

I’m not sure I would bother with the HPR50 motor. The Fuel I rode felt pretty weak & its range wasn’t great. I‘d rather pay for the newer model Fuel+, get the more efficient HPR60 motor & a bigger battery.

The Levo SL didn’t interest me for the same reasons, weak motor & tiny battery. There are quite a lot of mid power bikes now within 1kg of SL’s (high spec bikes) which are still 4/5kg lighter than most full power bikes.

I was a bit dismissive of mid-power options until I rode the HPR60 on a good trail bike. It’s actually surprisingly good, even compared to a Gen5 Bosch with the upgrade. I can do similar loops and my average speed / ride time is way closer than I expected.

The Fuel + is a really good bike, as is the other TQ bike I’ve ridden, the Yeti MTe, although, that’s not a budget bike!

 

[deserthi]

One thing you might want to think about is that riding the new EMTB bikes uphill is becoming a very popular, new sport. My recommendation is sticking with either the new Bosh CX motor or the Avonix motor because this uphill sport has already caught on big in Europe and will surly become bigger here in the US.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Emailsucks98]

I’m not sure I would bother with the HPR50 motor.

I think it's worth considering. It's down to rider priorities.

@deserthi My partner and I both owned full powers for a few years, we explored this "new uphill sport". For a few reasons we went to SLs and neither of us will go back. The main reason was that, the less we rode our "meat bikes" the more fitness we lost. Yes a full-power can be a great workout, but it's nowhere near the cardio you get from climbing on a meat bike.

Now the obvious solution there is to add in running, going to the gym or riding other bikes. And that's the rub- mid-power/SL bikes are great as a "#1"/primary bike. I'd even say they split the difference nicely between a full power and a meat bike. Now, if someone was to say they absolutely planned on riding their meat bike 70% of the time and are adding an eBike as a second bike, then I'd go full-power. But I think most people interested in SL bikes value the cardio over power.

As far as SL motors. My partner has A Devinci eTroy lite with the Bosch SX. I've got a Slash+ with the HPR50 with both the 360 & 580 batteries.
You can get the Slash+ these days for around $5700usd, that's like half the price of the yeti. Given, it's less of a trail bike.

The range of the HPR50/360 battery is a limitation, but with the range extender(s) it was fine and those are all great deals these days. You could pick up an HPR50 on a Fuel EXe and save enouigh to buy a few REs and have thousands left over.

My partner is happy with the Bosch SX, but the range is on par with the HPR50/360WH and it's unacceptably noisy to me. Both the rattle and the coasting/backpedaling noise.

The Propain Sresh SL would be high on my list if I was shopping today.

I think in the end, if descending is the priority, then the bike matters a lot more than the motor. You just need enough range and reliability. And the range is really dependant on rider weight.

 

[Doomanic]

One thing you might want to think about is that riding the new EMTB bikes uphill is becoming a very popular, new sport. My recommendation is sticking with either the new Bosh CX motor or the Avonix motor because this uphill sport has already caught on big in Europe and will surly become bigger here in the US.
Just my 2 cents.

Say what now?

 

[deserthi]

I am still a big fan of the Bimotal Elevate. I can blast up the mountain with it and blast down the hill on a 26lb carbon bike. I can either put the motor 3.3lbs in my back pack or just leave it on. Takes only seconds to do that.
Have fun you all switching bikes and paying for two bikes.

 

[Ndanger]

No problem, I ordered one because I wanted the lightest emtb on the mountain. I am adding that kit to my 26lb Intense Sniper full suspension mtb.

Interesting, never seen one before. Can you post a picture of your bike with the motor installed.

 

[ShapeThings]

I’m not sure I would bother with the HPR50 motor. The Fuel I rode felt pretty weak & its range wasn’t great. I‘d rather pay for the newer model Fuel+, get the more efficient HPR60 motor & a bigger battery.

The Levo SL didn’t interest me for the same reasons, weak motor & tiny battery. There are quite a lot of mid power bikes now within 1kg of SL’s (high spec bikes) which are still 4/5kg lighter than most full power bikes.

I was a bit dismissive of mid-power options until I rode the HPR60 on a good trail bike. It’s actually surprisingly good, even compared to a Gen5 Bosch with the upgrade. I can do similar loops and my average speed / ride time is way closer than I expected.

The Fuel + is a really good bike, as is the other TQ bike I’ve ridden, the Yeti MTe, although, that’s not a budget bike!

The Propain Sresh SL has the new TQ, certainly cheaper than the Yeti. Good efficiency, silent operation and decent sized battery appeals to me. I also think it's a nice looking bike.

But you could also get an Amflow and add some light bits to it and get it close to weight. Detune it for most rides, but have that boost when you want to get party laps.

I have a Forbidden on order, so will be going the latter route (when though it will never be light).

 

[deserthi]

3.3lbs

 

[Emailsucks98]

The Propain Sresh SL has the new TQ, certainly cheaper than the Yeti. Good efficiency, silent operation and decent sized battery appeals to me. I also think it's a nice looking bike.

But you could also get an Amflow and add some light bits to it and get it close to weight. Detune it for most rides, but have that boost when you want to get party laps.

I have a Forbidden on order, so will be going the latter route (when though it will never be light).

I'm a big propain fan, I have a Tyee and love it (other than the garbage acros headset). I got a very quick ride in on a Sresh SL this summer and it felt perfect for what it is- a Tyee with an HPR60, no headset cable routing and awesome range.

I'm sure the forbidden will be awesome, especially with the high pivot. Trek, Forbidden, and Propain all have some level sort of local support. I'd have a lot less confidence in Amflow since they have no local support network.

On the Fuel EXe I owned, had a few issues but the local Trek dealer always sorted me out very quickly and didn't charge any labor on warranties.

 

[mtnrider]

It really comes down to rider weight/strength. I had a Fuel EXe for 2.5yrs and 90% of my rides were right around 3000' of vert. A few times I got 3800'. Probably the worst was trying to keep up with full power bikes in boost mode, I killed a battery in 2000'. I'm 180lbs.

I found the range was actually about the same in trail as it was in Eco. As long as you are matching or exceeding the motor wattage output the range can be very good.

Just to add on to this since this comment was in response to my original take on the Levo SL. I'm a pretty strong rider and was putting in more then my fair share of effort for the results I got. I can live with the lower power it had because I don't want a dirt bike and want to put in some effort myself but that 320wh battery just isn't enough to cover the distance I would want. I actually don't even own a ebike at this point so normally do these trails the old fashion way on my Trek Fuel EX 9.8.

On my radar right now are the Trek Fuel+ and the Propain Shresh SL, All the hype is on the Amflow right now but I'm not really feeling the bike/geo and not going to buy it just based on the motor. I want a mullet with a trail-duro geo vs just a trail bike.

.

 

[Hawk13]

I am not concerned about having to peddle uphill - and in fact I want to. Even more so if it gives me the feeling that I want when riding - which is not a 25kg full fat bruiser.

Yes, Amflow are leading the charge on lower weight full power bikes but I would say that even the entry level bike (which needs a good few upgrades IMO) is 50% above my budget and weights 22kg. I am also concerned about a lack of dealer network in the UK.