Levo Gen 4 Will Spesh update Levo 4 motor to 750w !!
- Thread starter Baron
- Start date
Power1tobe
Active member
Uncertain why they would need or want to perform this upgrade. Given the uproar in the eMTB community over the power wars I think limits maybe coming thru consensus sooner than later.
Yes but if the limits are introduced, they would likely be 750W. Hence the OP’s perfectly reasonable question.
The significant power deficit of the non S-Works motor relative to Bosch and DJI, limits or not, is a major negative.
It’s a tricky one for Specialized and they may have left themselves without anywhere to go…. There’s probably not a lot of capability left to unlock before impacting reliability and giving the masses the S Works level of performance will put the motor into a larger population who are unlikely to treat the bikes as garage queens like many S Works….
Jeff McD
Well-known member
Yep, need max power. Do most of the volunteer trail work on our steep technical muddy slippery trails and need a bike that can pull a 25 pound trailer up the trails filled with 60 pounds of gravel for puddles. No way you can safely take that downhill so need the power to pull it up. We're talking trails I can only make it up w/ considerable effort on my GEN3 by itself now. Need the power liberalized to all models including my comp that is coming. Please Specialized step it up for the trail builders. Been riding specialized bikes for the past 20 years with my first stumpjumper. It would be a shame to have to switch brands of because of this.
My look at it...it is a cca 50V(50,4) system that, has quite some reserves...
Specialized S-Works:
720W/50V = 14,4A current draw at peak power.
Current shared by 3P groups is 4,8A(14,4A/3) per group.
vs
Bosch:
750W/36V = 20,8A current draw at peak power.
Current shared by 4P groups is 5,2A(20,8A/4) per group.
For the Specialized to get to Bosch level current draw they would need to up the power to cca 790W peak, 790/50V = 15,7A. 15,7A/3 = 5,2A.
So yes, there are still some reserves left in the system.
For example just to show what a 50V system is capable: In the esk8 world people are running esk8 decks with 50V systems with insane amperage numbers(up to 100A).
Specialized S-Works:
720W/50V = 14,4A current draw at peak power.
Current shared by 3P groups is 4,8A(14,4A/3) per group.
vs
Bosch:
750W/36V = 20,8A current draw at peak power.
Current shared by 4P groups is 5,2A(20,8A/4) per group.
For the Specialized to get to Bosch level current draw they would need to up the power to cca 790W peak, 790/50V = 15,7A. 15,7A/3 = 5,2A.
So yes, there are still some reserves left in the system.
For example just to show what a 50V system is capable: In the esk8 world people are running esk8 decks with 50V systems with insane amperage numbers(up to 100A).
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Sorry to disturb but this look is wrong. In a series connection, the same current passes through each element. In parallel, current is shared among elements. So, in this case, configuration 14 series 3 parallel, load 14.4A means the current through each cell is 14.4A/3=4.8Amps/cell. That’s about half of max continuous current rating specified by the cell manufacturer.
WatermanJim
Active member
Sure spesh could wring more power out of the system, but it's intentionally designed to work well below capacity for durability. I would not trade durability/saftey for more power. The bike has plenty of power as it is and everyones call for more power will just lead to more drivetrain problems and hate from ehaters. No need to let china do the leading here and imo we all need to boycott this trend, (and bikes from China).
I agree if you are 300lbs or want to tow a trailer you may want more power for the steeps so imo there should be no limits placed on ebikes by law and the designs should be driven by want/need, like cars. Drive whatever you want, but you still got to abide by the rules of the road.
I agree if you are 300lbs or want to tow a trailer you may want more power for the steeps so imo there should be no limits placed on ebikes by law and the designs should be driven by want/need, like cars. Drive whatever you want, but you still got to abide by the rules of the road.
Hey thanks for your input. Yes I know and yes you are correct, the current does flow is like u describe(parallel groups sharing the whole load), was also expecting from someone to join in. I simplifed it to much with some mistakes, guilty as charged
I edited my post to be a more accurate description/explanation.Even if we take into a account the way the current really flows, it doesn't change the fact there are still some reserves in the 50V system.
If newer cells, say Molicel P45B with high continuous discharge current(up to 20A) would be used we could have a seriously capable cca 700Wh lightweight battery pack option capable of 1000W+ without a sweat, but that's probably a dream
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Has anyone else picked up that in the Gen 4 owners manual it recommends pedaling lightly during shifting? This is literally the selling point of the Sram transmission to be able to shift under load.
Interestingly enough the DJI power increase update also added a momentary power drop during shifting. I wonder if Specialized will add this?
Interestingly enough the DJI power increase update also added a momentary power drop during shifting. I wonder if Specialized will add this?
Power1tobe
Active member
If you think the Levo gen4 has a power deficit, then A. you have never ridden it B. you don't pedal at all (want a throttle) C. you 70+ years old D. All the above
No, because none of the bike S-works or non s-works models lack the power. On the contrary they already have too much power for a mountainlike (the problem here is most riders asking for more power do not want to pedal even ghost pedal).
What is however needed it better power output management, better programming to gel together rider output and motor output. Especially when rider output and motor output are roughly equal around the speed threshold ..19.5 mph. Then there is constant tussle who will win, the human or the motor and the riding experience is very bad... here we need a tune fix. The only way to overcome this, is to let the engine overtake the human by human dropping the wattage or for human to push substantially more watts then the engine, which is hard on flag ground with knobby tires and heavy bike.
What is however needed it better power output management, better programming to gel together rider output and motor output. Especially when rider output and motor output are roughly equal around the speed threshold ..19.5 mph. Then there is constant tussle who will win, the human or the motor and the riding experience is very bad... here we need a tune fix. The only way to overcome this, is to let the engine overtake the human by human dropping the wattage or for human to push substantially more watts then the engine, which is hard on flag ground with knobby tires and heavy bike.
Power1tobe
Active member
What is this based on? Do you have insight into the engineering design of the motor? How is this any different than Bosch? You really think specialized designed a motor at its upper limits? I mean these are serious questions, so if you have insight let us know because I own the bike and I have zero doubt that tuning it up to 750 would be a SW update? When I am in Turbo at 100/100 in shuttle mode the bike seems no were near maxed. Obviously there is gonna be a battery consumption tradeoff, but power isn't the issue out of this motor.
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So are you saying that when comparing the power of the DJI and Bosch motors, to the new 2026 Specialized levo. The Levo is sucking the nipple closest to the rectum......
Power1tobe
Active member
But is it really? you are all stuck on the S-Works
S-Works 13,200
Rail - 12,649
Orbea Wild - 12, 300
Levo Pro - 10,999
Amflow Pro (US)- 12,500 (when the price was on the US site, and you cant even order one via the site).. ya ya you can order from some 3 party Chinese company .. with zero support
All these bike are great, but lets not just make things up... They are all stupid expensive
Guess time will tell how their motor will behave, how it will wear/fail. Depending on that, Specialized might up the power in a future SW update. All it needs to do is hold in the warranty period, roughly. I would say they have some power reserves being that they just released it. Metal gears and higher thermal mass sure point in that direction. 3.2Kg vs 2.5Kg Avinox is a significant difference and the fact that Avinox already supports higher peak power than Specialized it could mean their motor also supports more than it already has. Unless Avinox is way ahead regarding technology, thus efficiency in converting electrical energy to mechanical work...
But wait, 666Watts are not enough? I would be impressed if it's life will average 10k km without issues
All this nonsense with replacing motors like brakepads should stop on a premium priced E-bike (even if in warranty).
P.S. I would say Bosch gen2 CX would surely support a 90Nm SW update without any significant damage to internal gears. We'll see about Avinox 1000W peak power reliability.
Power1tobe
Active member
Guess time will tell how their motor will behave, how it will wear/fail. Depending on that, Specialized might up the power in a future SW update. All it needs to do is hold in the warranty period, roughly. I would say they have some power reserves being that they just released it. Metal gears and higher thermal mass sure point in that direction. 3.2Kg vs 2.5Kg Avinox is a significant difference and the fact that Avinox already supports higher peak power than Specialized it could mean their motor also supports more than it already has. Unless Avinox is way ahead regarding technology, thus efficiency in converting electrical energy to mechanical work...
But wait, 666Watts are not enough? I would be impressed if it's life will average 10k km without issues
All this nonsense with replacing motors like brakepads should stop on a premium priced E-bike (even if in warranty).
P.S. I would say Bosch gen2 CX would surely support a 90Nm SW update without any significant damage to internal gears. We'll see about Avinox 1000W peak power reliability.
Let me state for the record I have zero insight into Specialized engineering process, I do however design systems for a living that performance is a key requirement. These motors would have already been tested to failure, under various loads and conditions. So their engineers know exactly where the limits are with respect to performance vs reliability. I would be surprised is the motor was even above 60% of capacity, and from my experiences with the bike 750watts is sw tweak which may even already exist.
Like you I am more concerned about why one needs 1000w of power, more a concern is the people that want to ride it continuously at a 1000w ... you aren't MTBing. You are also 110% right about parts like brakes, chainrings/sprockets, shocks, and chains... your going to tear thru them as they are regular MTB parts, not parts made for 1000ws continuous riding.
At the end of the day people should ride however they want, I for one would like to see the industry agree on a 750W limit and push to refine the bikes and lower the weight. My bike is currently set to 40/40 and I feel like a god....
Sorry you totally missed the point.
To simplify you don’t need to pay the SWorks tariff get the high power / torque versions of other brands.
The majority of the worlds view of trading with China isn’t set by the US region.
You have a point except the price difference in the UK and I suspect the EU is greater.
S-Works in the UK is £12500
The Amflow is £9000
Power1tobe
Active member
I understand prices are relative to your location, so in the US Specialized is that crazy expensive.
thats amazing you can get a Amflow Pro for $14.5 Aus -->$9.3K US
Maybe next time I am there I will pick one up, because that is a deal.
thats amazing you can get a Amflow Pro for $14.5 Aus -->$9.3K US
Maybe next time I am there I will pick one up, because that is a deal.
Power1tobe
Active member
???? care to explain?
I’ve heard something similar.
Apparently Spec are bitterly disappointed with how the Gen4 has been received so the Gen5 will be here in 18 months.
I guess we will see internal staff changes shortly.
Not sure about that.
Still ticks a lot of boxes for a lot of people.
As I Kept saying before its launch, if it’s not the slimmest, lightest and most powerful it will lose its crown of “Best Bike”.
Turns out it’s not, so probably won’t be nearly as successful.
Doesn’t mean those that do buy it, won’t like it.
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In your opinion, other people may have other opinions. Just because it doesn't tick your boxes doesn't mean it doesn't tick other people's.
Power1tobe
Active member
Interesting, well I do believe sales for eMTBs have dropped due to added competition. There are so many amazing selections out there and as we can see about depending on where you live certain bikes have better pricing in this world economy. But saying the frame can't handle the power doesn't make a ton of sense, unless the S-work power is at the upper limits. Still the idea the frame can't handle the power makes little sense, humans can produce similar power outputs (in excess of 1000 watts) and frames are breaking? Now if you say the motor isn't capable of power increases, or the drivetrain that makes more sense.
I find it very hard to believe that Santa Cruz knew about the power hike before “pressing go” on production; if they had, surely they would have specified an 800w/h battery?!
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