Power Struggle: Who Controls the Future of E‑MTB?

[ari]

Don't twist your way out of that this, you was talking complete bollocks, type of bike? Any more bollocks to say,?

No no no my stupid friend, put the same rider on the bikes . look , i realize you guys/yankwanks are mentally stressed and agro, as every part of the world hates you now , just settle down. oh sorry , you are a stupid pom.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

You obviously dont think before you post[you toxic abuser] . I race and sometimes cross train on the local bmx track , so that makes your comment just infantile.....please leave this forum.

Toxic abuser? Seek psychological help if you're ego is that fragile!

 

[Downhillr]

Obviously iv hit a nerve with you 2 slugs/snails , no ebike can keep up on downhill or flats against a mtb [with good riders on board], sometimes mtb will jump and clear the whole section , pick up double speed on downhills etc.

Obviously iv hit a nerve with you 2 slugs/snails , no ebike can keep up on downhill or flats against a mtb [with good riders on board], sometimes mtb will jump and clear the whole section , pick up double speed on downhills etc.

This is not productive, you're trying desperately to change conversation into competition between bikes and avoid your own comment about e-bike assist limiting speed to where the power cut-off is. I agree that on a flat section the e-bike would be a chore to get much over the limit, however, you didn't exclude your comment to that situation.
Since this thread is not about assist bikes vs regular bike but about power outputs the rabbit-hole you dove down is irrelevant. Sorry you’re struggling and so angry about something that all you can di is revert to immature name calling.

 

[ari]

Toxic abuser? Seek psychological help if you're ego is that fragile!

You are , you need help, you are not fit to be on here or in society .

 

[ari]

This is not productive, you're trying desperately to change conversation into competition between bikes and avoid your own comment about e-bike assist limiting speed to where the power cut-off is. I agree that on a flat section the e-bike would be a chore to get much over the limit, however, you didn't exclude your comment to that situation.
Since this thread is not about assist bikes vs regular bike but about power outputs the rabbit-hole you dove down is irrelevant. Sorry you’re struggling and so angry about something that all you can di is revert to immature name calling.

No , you and your buddy could not handle my comment , and became abusive , everything i said is relevant , you are just twisting things now.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

No no no my stupid friend, put the same rider on the bikes . look , i realize you guys/yankwanks are mentally stressed and agro, as every part of the world hates you now , just settle down. oh sorry , you are a stupid pom.

How to piss off two countries in one sentence .

 

[ari]

How to piss off two countries in one sentence .

Like i said , settle down , you will get your war soon enough..

 

[Downhillr]

Obviously iv hit a nerve with you 2 slugs/snails , no ebike can keep up on downhill or flats against a mtb [with good riders on board], sometimes mtb will jump and clear the whole section , pick up double speed on downhills etc.

Obviously iv hit a nerve with you 2 slugs/snails , no ebike can keep up on downhill or flats against a mtb [with good riders on board], sometimes mtb will jump and clear the whole section , pick up double speed on downhills etc.

This is not productive, you're trying desperately to change conversation into competition between bikes and avoid your own comment about e-bike assist limiting speed to where the power cut-off is. I agree that on a flat section the e-bike would be a chore to get much over the limit, however, you didn't exclude your comment to that situation.
Since this thread is not about assist bikes vs regular bike but about power outputs the rabbit-hole you dove down is irrelevant. Sorry you’re struggling and so angry about something that all you can di is revert to immature name calling.

Like i said , settle down , you will get your war soon enough..

Once again, an inept effort at misdirection.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

No , you and your buddy could not handle my comment , and became abusive , everything i said is relevant , you are just twisting things now.

Like i said , settle down , you will get your war soon enough..

What buddy? What war? Go to bed, sleep it off whilst you still have some credibility.

 

[ari]

What buddy? What war? Go to bed, sleep it off whilst you still have some credibility.

 

[ari]

This is not productive, you're trying desperately to change conversation into competition between bikes and avoid your own comment about e-bike assist limiting speed to where the power cut-off is. I agree that on a flat section the e-bike would be a chore to get much over the limit, however, you didn't exclude your comment to that situation.
Since this thread is not about assist bikes vs regular bike but about power outputs the rabbit-hole you dove down is irrelevant. Sorry you’re struggling and so angry about something that all you can di is revert to immature name calling.

Once again, an inept effort at misdirection.

Playing with words again , actually you are the one misdirecting originally...

 

[Downhillr]

the 25km limit is the regulator/sheriff etc , hitting that 25km brickwall makes all [legal] ebikes the slowest bikes out there , even a 13 year old bmx rider will smash past at 40kmph , good mtb rider at60kmph , where the embt rider is huffing and buffing at 26.5kmph ,

Your words partner…

 

[RustyIron]

all over California there have been incidents of reckless riding of ebikes on the streets with calls for tighter age restrictions, licensing, insurance, fines for violations, etc.

The laws and restrictions are already in place. The cops don't enforce the existing laws. That negatively affects all of us.

Recently two kids were riding one of those electric minibikes on the sidewalk, they clipped something with the bars and went headfirst into a wall. One died, the other is a vegetable. About two weeks later, two more were riding one at night with no lights and got hit by a car. Both were killed.

Since these are children, I place the majority of the blame on the parents. They shouldn't allow their children to zip around illegally. While discussing this with a law enforcement person from the neighboring city where the first incident occurred, I pointed a finger and told him that his department was complicit in the deaths. I'm a firm believer in the Broken Window Theory. When the police allow kids to zip around on streets and sidewalks unchecked, then the behavior escalates. These unfortunate losses of life are the result.

My friend told me that they don't enforce the existing law because the eMiniBike riders just run away, increasing the chances of harm to themselves and other citizens. The result is that the illegal activity increases. Our learned leaders' jerk knee response is to make more laws. More laws don't affect those who already flout existing laws, but politicians don't see that.

 

[Downhillr]

Playing with words again , actually you are the one misdirecting originally...

“So EMBTs are basically Trials bikes”

…and a few more, both of your comments are your own words and just ignorant. It’s almost as if you have e-bike and are not nhappy with it but I assume you have one since this is EMTB forum. .

 

[ari]

the 25km limit is the regulator/sheriff etc , hitting that 25km brickwall makes all [legal] ebikes the slowest bikes out there , even a 13 year old bmx rider will smash past at 40kmph , good mtb rider at60kmph , where the embt rider is huffing and buffing at 26.5kmph ,

Your words partner…

What other way i can put it ? this is about ebike power ? isn't it? point was , you can have all the power you want but is mostly useless with the 25km limit .

 

[Downhillr]

The laws and restrictions are already in place. The cops don't enforce the existing laws. That negatively affects all of us.

Recently two kids were riding one of those electric minibikes on the sidewalk, they clipped something with the bars and went headfirst into a wall. One died, the other is a vegetable. About two weeks later, two more were riding one at night with no lights and got hit by a car. Both were killed.

Since these are children, I place the majority of the blame on the parents. They shouldn't allow their children to zip around illegally. While discussing this with a law enforcement person from the neighboring city where the first incident occurred, I pointed a finger and told him that his department was complicit in the deaths. I'm a firm believer in the Broken Window Theory. When the police allow kids to zip around on streets and sidewalks unchecked, then the behavior escalates. These unfortunate losses of life are the result.

My friend told me that they don't enforce the existing law because the eMiniBike riders just run away, increasing the chances of harm to themselves and other citizens. The result is that the illegal activity increases. Our learned leaders' jerk knee response is to make more laws. More laws don't affect those who already flout existing laws, but politicians don't see that.

Hey Rusty, I live in small town (in major metro area) and see kids zipping along after school, too many ignoring stop signs, riding double, even without helmets and it’s definitely worrisome. Despite the laws the ultimate responsibility lies with parents and I just wished more of them taught their kids about badic safety.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

Let him sleep it off, he's talking bollocks.

 

[ari]

Hey Rusty, I live in small town (in major metro area) and see kids zipping along after school, too many ignoring stop signs, riding double, even without helmets and it’s definitely worrisome. Despite the laws the ultimate responsibility lies with parents and I just wished more of them taught their kids about badic safety.

Misdirection post....

 

[ari]

Let him sleep it off, he's talking bollocks.

Leave the forum , you are evil.

 

[ari]

“So EMBTs are basically Trials bikes”

…and a few more, both of your comments are your own words and just ignorant. It’s almost as if you have e-bike and are not nhappy with it but I assume you have

I have 5 emtbs.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

From my POV, it’s good to have a limit (can’t tell if 750W is the right number, but considering my Gen 5 CX is around 600W, it should be enough for a pedal-ASSISTED bike) for two main reasons:

• The speed limit for almost all brands can be hacked quite easily. Not necessarily on the trails, but street-use EMTBs with 1000W power are a menace. Leaving things unregulated would quickly lead to Sur-Rons with pedals, and anyone can imagine the outcome — throwing all of us under the bus.
  For anyone thinking Bosch, for example, cannot make higher numbers, just a small reminder: they’ve been making handheld tools for years exceeding 2000W.
• Bike brands and motor companies, being almost or already above this limit, will be pushed to innovate further on crucial aspects like better maintenance, lower weight, slimmer designs, etc. — factors way more important than raw power, which is cool for a short moment but honestly not that helpful to really enjoy the bike trails.

 

[Ridgydidge]

Spot on!

I've had regular communication with land managers, regulators and law enforcement. Access is fragile. For decades Mountain bikers have volunteered to maintain trails. They are in attendance at land management and regulatory meetings. They opposed EMTBs, years ago. In time we have been able to sway some of them to our side.

Every time I read rants about more powerful bikes, I wonder just how involved those riders are at the regulatory level. Go to a meeting and try to make an argument. Sometimes it's akin to beating a puppy. A lot of older people with their grandchildren, sharing their concerns about safety. Mountain bikers that volunteer to do much of the physical work, sharing their concerns. Equestrians, who are generally seen as noble, share their concerns. I even publicly debated the guy who wrote the state law for a state representative, legalizing ebikes. He is pro ebikes, but not on any shared use trails. I don't think many ebike riders have a clue just how hard it was to win access. Keeping that access is just as hard.

I saw it posted earlier that some brands are only looking out for their own interests and this looks like protectionism. As everyone, every state, every business and every country does. I'll admit it, I want to keep and protect what I have. All that said, I do like what I know of about the DJI system. I need to see how they hold up with time. Power limits will be an issue and I haven't had any issues climbing hills with the typical 250w <750w max ebike.

I don’t live in the States but I do live in a global community and this power issue is relevant as it seems it just drives further polarisation about emtb, which I worry has the potential to infect all geographic regions. I really sympathise with the issues they face there.

Personally, I feel like an outlier in these forums as a) I’m happy dawdling up hills at 65nm, (with a bit of huffing and puffing for good measure), plus the occasional 85nm for steeper gnar - it gives time to enjoy nature, but b) I consider the law is an ass here down under with its 25km/h limit as it is unsuited to enduro style mtb (unless the motor has zero drag).

I get the 25km/h limit for mixed use areas like cities and shared trails, as an (imperfect) way to enhance safety. But banging down the A line on dedicated mtb tracks, no way?

Apropos, I’m loving my Amflow. And God bless NZ.

 

[Astro66]

The speed limit for almost all brands can be hacked quite easily.

If we are going with the argument that hacking is why we need peak power limits. Then what stops the power limit being hacked ? I'll answer that for you. Nothing.

So the only safe option to remove hacking as a potential, is to remove the motor. That is where that argument takes you.

When we make restrictions based on criminal activity. The only people penalised will be the honest people, as the hackers will just continue to hack the restrictions.

but considering my Gen 5 CX is around 600W, it should be enough for a pedal-ASSISTED bike)

And taking the attitude that, "My bike or riding won't be effected, so therefore it's fine", is not the attitude we want. We need to look at how everyone is legally using EMTBs and base restrictions on that.

Just because I only need 160mm of travel for my riding. It doesn't mean, that should be the limit for travel, so we slow EMTBs going downhill too fast. Everyone uses EMTBs differently. So if climbing ability is improved by increasing peak power by 250watts. And there is no substantial safety impact, and it can be done legally. Then others that don't need the extra peak power can just buy motors with less peak power. We don't need to outlaw them.

Just as I don't need 200mm travel triple clamp forks. But others that want to to charge downhill legally at higher speeds, should be allowed to get them. I am more than happy on my 160mm travel forks.

 

[ari]

As an avid emtb rider /enthusiast [ most likely more than everyone of you muppets here], i think it went sour from the beginning , who ever thought up the 25 limit did a lot of damage ,and the numpties sucked it all up, what should have happened is prorata power to speed ratio, eg 35nm or under gets no speed limits , under 85nm gets 32kmh, above that gets the full punishment of 25. I have bikes from 35nm to 110nm and it is the answer .
[[dont reply before thinking ]]

 

[Astro66]

As an avid emtb rider /enthusiast [ most likely more than everyone of you muppets here], i think it went sour from the beginning , who ever thought up the 25 limit did a lot of damage ,and the numpties sucked it all up, what should have happened is prorata power to speed ratio, eg 35nm or under gets no speed limits , under 85nm gets 32kmh, above that gets the full punishment of 25. I have bikes from 35nm to 110nm and it is the answer .
[[dont reply before thinking ]]

Ari. When you start a post by calling everyone a muppet. No one is going to take you seriously. So if you have something to contribute other than abuse. Please do. Otherwise you are just giving Australians a bad name. And reducing the incentive to help us. Which is the important component of this community. Not calling people names.

Thx.

 

[irie]

And taking the attitude that, "My bike or riding won't be effected, so therefore it's fine", is not the attitude we want.

Correction: it is not the attitude that you want.

 

[ari]

Ari. When you start a post by calling everyone a muppet. No one is going to take you seriously. So if you have something to contribute other than abuse. Please do. Otherwise you are just giving Australians a bad name. And reducing the incentive to help us. Which is the important component of this community. Not calling people names.

Thx.

But my posts get read , yours most likely dont , i would skip 97%of the posts these clowns write , some of these people are bad apples , hence the hate for ebikes . Surely some of them can read the important bits without going the toxic route , precious people. ps they abused me straight away from the original post , so you didn't think either.

 

[WatermanJim]

But my posts get read , yours most likely dont , i would skip 97%of the posts these clowns write , some of these people are bad apples , hence the hate for ebikes . Surely some of them can read the important bits without going the toxic route , precious people.

Relax brother

 

[Astro66]

But my posts get read , yours most likely dont , i would skip 97%of the posts these clowns write , some of these people are bad apples , hence the hate for ebikes . Surely some of them can read the important bits without going the toxic route , precious people.

I see this forum as a place to help the EMTB community, and share the love of EMTB riding. Was hoping you could see the overwhelming good.

I was wrong ...... Enjoy riding the Reid. Bye.

 

[Chairman]

In my county, mtb riders have worked for decades to co-exist with other trail users (e.g., hikers, equestrians). Trail access isn't complete as not all trails are open to emtbs but for the most part, there is a precarious balance among users. In the meantime, all over California there have been incidents of reckless riding of ebikes on the streets with calls for tighter age restrictions, licensing, insurance, fines for violations, etc.

Given the above context and the possibility for greater emtb torque/acceleration in the future, I'd anticipate more trail usage issues that will re-ignite conflict among trail users and attract the attention of land use managers.

A punchy 150 nm emtb that can be accelerated around the trails in an instant (traction aside) won't do me any good if I have nowhere to ride it.

I agree. California is riddled with issues so definately need to keep things dumbed down but for the rest of us it should be sweet