Just a rant on restrictions - Tired of non-involved regulators

[Mario Antony]

The UK government is cracking down on ebikes, police forces are seizing illegally modified bikes and or issuing penalty notices, etc. There are also consultations to allow higher powered bikes properly taxed insured etc, which will make it easier to police (if it can be) and no doubt to raise more revenue for government coffers.

The problem is, no matter what the restrictions are, there are people who will, completely, disregard any rules. Whether it is young people and antisocial riding and associated crime in urban areas or out on mixed trails or bridleways by adults who really should know better.

Is the 15.5 mph limit the 'sweet spot' on purpose built tracks for experienced riders, definitely not, but for mixed used trails and bridleways etc it is probably just about right.

Like me, most don't ride the Emtb on the road. Sure will ride some road to make some connections, etc...
Maybe some will go to the pub, or buying bread... just keep an eye on it!

Law enforcement has too much to deal with besides chassing a fat rider down the road, because is going 30 ou 35km/h - being assisted or not!
Unlikely electric scooters, you need to pedal ebikes!

Now.... if we're talking about electric scooters that drive by at +60/70 and even 90km/h, or ride on sidewalks or wrong way, or.... well you get the point, right?
And then you the Uber boy, that converted his Decathlon/etc bike to a hub motor, and a throttle, and you see passing by, at +50km/h without pedaling, most without helmet, and I won't go iinto the fact that respecting traffic rules & laws is optional.........

Rising or removing the 25km/h emtb speed limit, won't start caos, because it has already installed in several cities....

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

I think 15.5mph as the cap to use an ebike the same way with the same freedoms as an acoustic is a good deal, not compalaning. Really wish people like you would stop rocking the boat because honestly I just think your pushing a pendulum that's going to switng back and land us with tougher restrictions and vehicle tax

A good deal? Literally the only other vehicle that gets speed limiting in my country is articulated prime-movers weighing many tonnes.
"rocking the boat"... It's weasel words like these that no doubt led to pedalecs being speed restricted in the first place. A law foisted upon cyclists by ppl like the truck driver who threatened to run me over with his truck in an earlier post above.
These are exactly the ppl responsible for this nonsense. If you think pedestrians are being killed by pedalecs, not cars and trucks, you need a serious reality check.
On the road, where I ride, it has been proven that vehicles that move at close to the same speed have less fatal accidents. Time to call this what it always has been... Motorists with no skin in the game making the rules.

The UK government is cracking down on ebikes, police forces are seizing illegally modified bikes and or issuing penalty notices, etc. There are also consultations to allow higher powered bikes properly taxed insured etc, which will make it easier to police (if it can be) and no doubt to raise more revenue for government coffers.

The problem is, no matter what the restrictions are, there are people who will, completely, disregard any rules. Whether it is young people and antisocial riding and associated crime in urban areas or out on mixed trails or bridleways by adults who really should know better.

Is the 15.5 mph limit the 'sweet spot' on purpose built tracks for experienced riders, definitely not, but for mixed used trails and bridleways etc it is probably just about right.

The restriction is nothing to do with 'sweet spots' and everything to do with the motor vehicle lobbies lubricating the wheels of power which don't give a hoot about bicycles because they haven't ridden one since high school. These lobby groups are protecting the motor vehicle sales & service centres from a form of transport which would absolutely damage their business model if ppl can ride at 40km/h and arrive at work without the sweat.
Everything is about money.
None of these elected representatives give a rats ar$e about equality and safety on your bicycle trails.

 

[LeftItLancs]

The restriction is nothing to do with 'sweet spots' and everything to do with the motor vehicle lobbies lubricating the wheels of power which don't give a hoot about bicycles because they haven't ridden one since high school. These lobby groups are protecting the motor vehicle sales & service centres from a form of transport which would absolutely damage their business model if ppl can ride at 40km/h and arrive at work without the sweat.
Everything is about money.
None of these elected representatives give a rats ar$e about equality and safety on your bicycle trails.

Nope, just don't agree it is a lobbying issue here in the UK because the existing market fears competition.

If anything, the big players in the ebike market are the actual cartel here and marketing and selling a niche product that is simply not affordable for the average working class man or woman on top of their regular mode of transport.

Petrol and diesel vehicles in the UK will be banned from 2030 (new vehicles) and hybrids by 2035 and if Labour win a second term the UK is going electric whether it likes it or not and which will open the door further for other, cheaper modes of transport like ebikes.

As, others have commented, in the UK lobbying groups for ramblers etc, are powerful groups who do have access to government, both local and central, and issues such as safety on mixed trails are taken seriously and hence the 250 watt 15.5 mph limit.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

Nope, just don't agree it is a lobbying issue here in the UK because the existing market fears competition.

If anything, the big players in the ebike market are the actual cartel here and marketing and selling a niche product that is simply not affordable for the average working class man or woman on top of their regular mode of transport.

Petrol and diesel vehicles in the UK will be banned from 2030 (new vehicles) and hybrids by 2035 and if Labour win a second term the UK is going electric whether it likes it or not and which will open the door further for other, cheaper modes of transport like ebikes.

As, others have commented, in the UK lobbying groups for ramblers etc, are powerful groups who do have access to government, both local and central, and issues such as safety on mixed trails are taken seriously and hence the 250 watt 15.5 mph limit.

First of all, I am only speaking about road use. I can tell you that in Australia there is very little interest given at state or federal level to mixed trails as many of our politicians not only don't use trails, their level of interest in exercise is inversely proportional to the likelihood of them being able to view their own genitalia without the help of a mirror.
In Australia we don't embrace anything electric... Petrol heads here think their emissions are healthy and that electric cars especially should go direct from the showroom to the recyclers. We've had a knuckle dragging epidemic here that pre-dated covid by about a century as far as I can tell. There'll be no talk of zero emissions in this country without ending that sentence with 'hoax'.
Bicycle manufacturers are flat out surviving in Australia and certainly don't enjoy the organised-criminal status you describe on the UK side.
The motor vehicle lobby is the strength here, staunchly defended by millions of lazy car-driving addicts who wouldn't be able to describe with any level of confidence the importance of maintaining a raised heart rate and which zone(s) that rate should fall into.
Obviously we are talking from utterly different lived experiences and we are unlikely to gain any 'apple to apples' comparisons from our US-UK-OZ viewpoints.

 

[Sherman]

A good deal? Literally the only other vehicle that gets speed limiting in my country is articulated prime-movers weighing many tonnes.

You have speed limits or access limits. Pick your poison. Get a motorcycle if you need one.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

You have speed limits or access limits. Pick your poison. Get a motorcycle if you need one.

I have a motorcycle... what has that got to do with anything?

 

[Bontee]

First of all, I am only speaking about road use. I can tell you that in Australia there is very little interest given at state or federal level to mixed trails as many of our politicians not only don't use trails, their level of interest in exercise is inversely proportional to the likelihood of them being able to view their own genitalia without the help of a mirror.
In Australia we don't embrace anything electric... Petrol heads here think their emissions are healthy and that electric cars especially should go direct from the showroom to the recyclers. We've had a knuckle dragging epidemic here that pre-dated covid by about a century as far as I can tell. There'll be no talk of zero emissions in this country without ending that sentence with 'hoax'.
Bicycle manufacturers are flat out surviving in Australia and certainly don't enjoy the organised-criminal status you describe on the UK side.
The motor vehicle lobby is the strength here, staunchly defended by millions of lazy car-driving addicts who wouldn't be able to describe with any level of confidence the importance of maintaining a raised heart rate and which zone(s) that rate should fall into.
Obviously we are talking from utterly different lived experiences and we are unlikely to gain any 'apple to apples' comparisons from our US-UK-OZ viewpoints.

To be fair Marvin,and I made this point earlier.It depends where you live.
We live in the UK a small island 1000 miles long witha very extensive road network and despite the restrictions we have a stunningly large off road trail network.Electric vehicles (whether we like them or not could work here for a majority of folks (I’m not advocating for this,I’m just saying) Our trails are shared with Walkers,Horse rider and off road cyclists and off road motorcycles and in 35 years of mountain biking the number of arguements I have had with other trail users is in single figures.You live on a Continent with roads that are thousands of miles long across deserts.It’s no wonder Australians drive ice engine vehicles ,if you went electric you;de all die ,stranded in the middle of nowhere I have some very good friends who live in Perth,and they have told me a) how difficult it is to access useable off road trails ,they have said they have nothing ,literally nothing like we have in the UK and we can be at the other end of the country in less than 8 hours,and b) they would never buy an electric car ,it makes no sense due to the sheer size of Australia.
Your distances simply aren’t conducive with electric vehicles and I don’t blame you,but geography makes a world of difference,which is what I said in my last post.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I have a ktm 500, 2 current generation emtbs, 1 bafang bbshd converted bike and several pedal bikes. I've been riding motorcyles for 35 years now and riding mountain bikes at an expert level for 25 years. I am extremely responsible, very much in tune with not scaring hikers, sharing the trail and being respectful.

Still... I cannot be trusted in certain situations. I will do 35-40mph on my bafang converted commuter bike on city streets and in bike lanes (when no other cyclists are present). If no one is around, I will hammer up a climb on my full power ebike at 20mph. When I decide to get after it on my enduro, dh bike or full power ebike going downhill, I will easily go fast enough to very seriously hurt myself or others in the worst circumstances.

I know better then to assume that we can just take the lid off of things and hope for the best. Most people will do the right thing, I want to believe that... but...

WE CAN'T EVEN BE TRUSTED WITH CELL PHONES. Literally, all it took was a small box that delivered the internet to us in real time, and it was enough to ruin how we drive cars, our ability to be pedestrians, our ability to communicate with each other with empathy, @#$! name it and we've ruined it in the name of cell phones.

We absolutely cannot trust the lowest common denominator to not realize they are being a dangerous asshole. Those that want to break the rules and (hopefully) do it responsibly will do the research and do it themselves. We don't need to hand out loaded guns to everyone... people already find them easily enough.

 

[ValActionT 750]

If you’ve got enough private land to amuse yourself on, fill your boots and buy a Surron or derestrict your ebike. No place on public access bridleways and shared usage trails for unrestricted electric motorcycles.

Agree. As long as kids can buy/ride them they will be regulated. Want unlimited, sure just show the officials your license & insurance. . On shared use trails, nope. Why? It will only take one injured person or spooked horse and the ax will fall on all of us. Same with a child dying ( it always takes a death it seems). Sweeping restrictions will occur. Public lands will carry the liability, or private land owners. Period. IMHO.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

We live in the UK a small island 1000 miles long with a very extensive road network and despite the restrictions we have a stunningly large off road trail network.

I wish we had this.... Car drivers here get their noses out of joint at the merest hint of a dollar being spent on anything other than their precious cars.

Electric vehicles (whether we like them or not could work here for a majority of folkd]s (I’m not advocating for this,I’m just saying)

I agree... Batteries are not quite where we need them for distances in Australia but electric motors are superior in every way to internal combustion bar two:
1. Satisfying sound (purely subjective) and
2. Emotion/sentimentality
Eventually a tax will be placed on toxic exhaust gases and the willfully ignorant will come to realise the emissions of the ice motor vehicle are many times more dangerous for everybodies health than smoking cigarettes.

in 35 years of mountain biking the number of arguments I have had with other trail users is in single figures.

I would hope so or it'd be time to give up riding the trails.

You live on a Continent with roads that are thousands of miles long across deserts.It’s no wonder Australians drive ice engine vehicles ,if you went electric you;de all die ,stranded in the middle of nowhere

A fallicy. We all do an average of about 47km per day. There are exemptions to the rule such as interstate truck & bus drivers and those pesky monster-trucks towing homes behind them but otherwise the 'tyranny of distance' argument is a fabrication thought up by ice vehicle addicts.

we can be at the other end of the country in less than 8 hours.

We can do it quicker than that. We have aircraft. Stuff driving for 3 days solid. Only an ice vehicle addict would enjoy that or even suggest it.

Your distances simply aren’t conducive with electric vehicles and I don’t blame you,but geography makes a world of difference

Covering large distances is about the political will to install charging points and utilise our ridiculous amounts of solar energy to make such a system more environmentally efficient/effective (notice I resisted the words 'green' and 'friendly' as these words get the knuckle draggers in oz very upset indeed).
It makes complete sense here to have an electric car as a second car which ties into the solar to allow serious amounts of storage for air conditioning etc. Just so long as the car has a shelter separate from the main dwelling in case of a battery conflagration. Anyway, getting away from the topic here. I don't often use my battery on my Trek Rail but I think I should be able to use it to get about at 40km/h on roads as I can pedal beyond the current limit anyway making the motor only useful for insane headwinds and going up steep hills... of which I have very few where I live.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

Agree. As long as kids can buy/ride them they will be regulated. Want unlimited, sure just show the officials your license & insurance. . On shared use trails, nope. Why? It will only take one injured person or spooked horse and the ax will fall on all of us. Same with a child dying ( it always takes a death it seems). Sweeping restrictions will occur. Public lands will carry the liability, or private land owners. Period. IMHO.

I have an open motorcycle licence, I'm willing to register my pedalec if necessary and get insurance. I only ride my full suspension emtb on the road because the roads are too bad to ride a drop bar rigid bike.... So why the restriction? Police the bicycles... I am happy with that.

 

[ValActionT 750]

“I know better then to assume that we can just take the lid off of things and hope for the best. Most people will do the right thing, I want to believe that... but...”

99.7% agree. Though i really don’t think most people will do the right thing, and that’s a bummer.

 

[Astro66]

I don't like 25kph limit. I do like that in Australia, I can ride an EMTB anywhere a bicycle can be ridden. I prefer the limit to the alternative.

National Parks in NSW are becoming quite progressive in opening up walking trails to bicycles. Just 2 weeks ago I came across trail and feature builders in the oldest National Park in Australia building some fantastic trails. 20 years ago, this would be unheard of. The last thing we need is to give the National Parks a reason to exclude EMTBs.

Leave the limit at 25kph. De-restrict if you find the limit is causing you issues when riding. No one is checking in Australia if you ride sensibly. The authorities to date, are being quite sensible.

 

[Chairman]

Buy a acustic bike, no restriction on speed! Or don`t buy a ebike if you dislike it. Ride o motorcycle if you need more power and speed.

And what do you plan to do with humans who train their muscles to put out Xtra power? Perhaps anyone who can output more than 600 watts should have their acoustic bike speed limited. It makes about as much sense as all you naysayers wankin on

 

[cozzy]

Bike parks would probably be ok but some are already becoming anti e-bike.

Which ones are these then?

 

[irie]

In the U.K. we have a system of bridleways country wide on which motor vehicles are prohibited. An E-bike is a motor vehicle but because it is not self propelled and has been given an assisted speed limit we have a dispensation to ride on bridleways and shared use paths. Any overt plans to increase this will likely be opposed by ramblers who have a large presence and mums with prams, not to mention politicians who oppose any change. Bike parks would probably be ok but some are already becoming anti e-bike.
I would be happy with a 10 mph speed limit if it protected my freedom to ride where I do now. It’s not policed anyway.

The legal dispensation to cycle on Bridleways gives us a huge variety of trails to ride. This right must be protected in UK law at all costs because losing this right would make owning an eMTB, which is classed the same as an acoustic bicycle, absolutely pointless.

 

[Weeksy]

Bike parks are getting MORE e-bike friendly IMO, like BPW giving FREE charging to Ebikers throughout the day, you just walk over and they give you the plug (or even full charger) for free.... That's deffo not getting Anti-ebike.
I can't think of ANY that are anti-ebike and i got to one most weekends.

 

[Weeksy]

The legal dispensation to cycle on Bridleways gives us a huge variety of trails to ride. This right must be protected in UK law at all costs because losing this right would make owning an eMTB, which is classed the same as an acoustic bicycle, absolutely pointless.

In which case, the rules need to stay (mostly) as they are, along with the people riding the bikes actually sticking to them.

We all understand the argument that manual bikes CAN go over 15mph... well yes... but the rule is far from a bad one.

I get it doesn't work for random bloke riding roads in Australia.... but, well, i think that's a massive outlier in any argument. You can argue a point for 1 person saying they should be 70mph and another saying they should be 5mph, both would be right and wrong for the majority.
Sure, there's a minor inconvenience at 15mph cut-out, but it's really very very minor.

 

[Mario Antony]

What's the real difference passing by hikers that are walking at say 5km/h at ±20km/h (5.56m/s) more than their walking speed or at 30km/h (8.33m/s)?

For the hikers, anything higher than their walking speed, is already too much!

In trails where there are hikers, sooner or later it will be close to all other forms of using the trails.... just needs some karens to complaint!

 

[Astro66]

What's the real difference passing by hikers that are walking at say 5km/h at ±20km/h (5.56m/s) more than their walking speed or at 30km/h (8.33m/s)?

As someone who worked in road maintenance for 3 years, there is a reason they slow cars to 40kph where people are working on the road. Energy is proportional to the velocity squared. Double the speed and you are carrying 4 times as much energy.

Impact injuries are graded on the energy delivered to the person. The higher the Energy absorbed. The greater risk of serious injury. So there is a much greater risk of injury or death, as velocity is increased.

But I'll repeat. I'm against speed limits. But as a realist. I accept that if E-Bikes were not speed limited. They would be excluded from far more trails, because that's the world we live in. It's pointless beating your head against a wall. Accept or circumvent and stay quiet about it.

 

[Mario Antony]

As someone who worked in road maintenance for 3 years, there is a reason they slow cars to 40kph where people are working on the road. Energy is proportional to the velocity squared. Double the speed and you are carrying 4 times as much energy.

Impact injuries are graded on the energy delivered to the person. The higher the Energy absorbed. The greater risk of serious injury. So there is a much greater risk of injury or death, as velocity is increased.

But I'll repeat. I'm against speed limits. But as a realist. I accept that if E-Bikes were not speed limited. They would be excluded from far more trails, because that's the world we live in. It's pointless beating your head against a wall. Accept or circumvent and stay quiet about it.

The person/driver/rider that normally

As someone who worked in road maintenance for 3 years, there is a reason they slow cars to 40kph where people are working on the road. Energy is proportional to the velocity squared. Double the speed and you are carrying 4 times as much energy.

Impact injuries are graded on the energy delivered to the person. The higher the Energy absorbed. The greater risk of serious injury. So there is a much greater risk of injury or death, as velocity is increased.

But I'll repeat. I'm against speed limits. But as a realist. I accept that if E-Bikes were not speed limited. They would be excluded from far more trails, because that's the world we live in. It's pointless beating your head against a wall. Accept or circumvent and stay quiet about it.

That's what she said?

Advocate acceptance is very good... ahahah

Thing is... RIDERS continue to buy gadgets to remove speed limit..........
Why not just legalize IF the owner wants???

I'm more than happy to sign a document, Already pay an issurance - even though is not requested!

 

[Astro66]

Thing is... RIDERS continue to buy gadgets to remove speed limit..........
Why not just legalize IF the owner wants???

The limit has nothing to do with what rider's want. It's 100% to do with govt appearing as though it is protecting public safety.

Completely illegal throttle E-Bikes are everywhere in Sydney beachside suburbs. All the kids are using them as school commuters. There is zero policing of this, and it's so obvious that there is no pedalling, yet the ebike is accelerating. I see this as admission that govt is turning a blind-eye to ebike compliance.

So as long as the haters have their 25kph limit on manufacturers. I believe ebikes will be left alone and their public use regulated the same as bicycles.

So for me and Australia. Until Ebikes become as widely accepted as Motor Vehicles. I want the current system we have in Australia. And that is basically having EU manufacturing regulations of 25kph limits, but not policing the specs of sensible riding Ebikers.

 

[Joecrow]

There is zero policing of this, and it's so obvious that there is no pedalling, yet the ebike is accelerating. I see this as admission that govt is turning a blind-eye to ebike compliance.

Bit sad that, but on a visit to Amsterdam last year I watched with great interest the police stopping riders and testing their e-bikes on a busy stretch of cycle path adjacent to the main station and in one case chasing and catching a rider who tried to get away. In a city where bicycles of all types are very very numerous and cycling so popular as a means of transport there seems to be no shortage of illegal e-bikes but at least the police there seem to be enforcing the rules.

 

[Fangs2k]

Bit sad that, but on a visit to Amsterdam last year I watched with great interest the police stopping riders and testing their e-bikes on a busy stretch of cycle path adjacent to the main station and in one case chasing and catching a rider who tried to get away. In a city where bicycles of all types are very very numerous and cycling so popular as a means of transport there seems to be no shortage of illegal e-bikes but at least the police there seem to be enforcing the rules.

Police here in the UK have regular crackdowns on illegal e-bikes as well, Uber eats etc riders getting their bikes confiscated and/or fined.

It’s not policed, until it is.

City centres are a far cry from emtb trails or the wilderness, but the issues are the same and in some forestry commission sites I ride in near towns there are quite a lot of Sur-Ron’s and high power ‘Ali-express specials’ being ripped around etc.

Sadly, and whilst legal e-bikes are differentiated from petrol MX’ers and quad bikes being used illegally, when it comes to electric motorbikes we’re all put in the same ‘e-bike’ bucket by some people, which is why it’s a sensitive issue that needs education as well as careful handling.

 

[Mario Antony]

Why is it legal to sell derestriction modules?

The way riders by the deresctrition gadget, it would be a leap foward have that possibility after signing a waiver or other kind of legal doc

I would prefer having police against criminals, than the illegal ebike rider.
But hey.... it is what it is.

 

[Bontee]

I wish we had this.... Car drivers here get their noses out of joint at the merest hint of a dollar being spent on anything other than their precious cars.

I agree... Batteries are not quite where we need them for distances in Australia but electric motors are superior in every way to internal combustion bar two:
1. Satisfying sound (purely subjective) and
2. Emotion/sentimentality
Eventually a tax will be placed on toxic exhaust gases and the willfully ignorant will come to realise the emissions of the ice motor vehicle are many times more dangerous for everybodies health than smoking cigarettes.

I would hope so or it'd be time to give up riding the trails.

A fallicy. We all do an average of about 47km per day. There are exemptions to the rule such as interstate truck & bus drivers and those pesky monster-trucks towing homes behind them but otherwise the 'tyranny of distance' argument is a fabrication thought up by ice vehicle addicts.

We can do it quicker than that. We have aircraft. Stuff driving for 3 days solid. Only an ice vehicle addict would enjoy that or even suggest it.

Covering large distances is about the political will to install charging points and utilise our ridiculous amounts of solar energy to make such a system more environmentally efficient/effective (notice I resisted the words 'green' and 'friendly' as these words get the knuckle draggers in oz very upset indeed).
It makes complete sense here to have an electric car as a second car which ties into the solar to allow serious amounts of storage for air conditioning etc. Just so long as the car has a shelter separate from the main dwelling in case of a battery conflagration. Anyway, getting away from the topic here. I don't often use my battery on my Trek Rail but I think I should be able to use it to get about at 40km/h on roads as I can pedal beyond the current limit anyway making the motor only useful for insane headwinds and going up steep hills... of which I have very few where I live.

I agree that you can fly Marvin,and at the risk of getting off topic I could if I wanted drive for 8 hours from where I live to the north coast of Scotland ,however,I could also stop off in The Cotswold hills,Warwickshire,Derbyshire peak district,The penines,The lake district (Cumbria),The Howgill fells Yorkshire,The Yorkshire dales,The Yorkshire moors,The Cheviots Then endless destinations north of that and all I have to do is park the van and I could make the journey last a month.
Honestly I’m not being argumentative but Ihave done just this,and a month only scratched the surface.I don’t think you could do this even if you had a private plane and the sheer diversity of landscapes we have,Britain has it’s issues but trails aren’t one of them.
All the best

 

[Bndit]

And this is how it will go:Legislation is coming for your e-bike: it’s not fair but Surron riders, illegal conversions and yobbo behaviour could ruin it for us all - MBR

 

[Mario Antony]

And this is how it will go:Legislation is coming for your e-bike: it’s not fair but Surron riders, illegal conversions and yobbo behaviour could ruin it for us all - MBR

If it means having the class with no speed limit for assistance, but no throttle, I say: Thank you!

Bring on that cat full power/full assistance, that needs license/insurance/plate/lights/legal "stuff"!
Road Tax is a bit nonsense, at least in Portugal, where EVs are exceptent to pay.

I'm in for this! Assistance up to 25km/h is to lame, sorry...

Picture of yesterday ride... empty trails, 365 days of the year!
Good (no karens) and bad (if you fall...or need help!)

 

[LeftItLancs]

Good (no karens)

But what does this even mean?

If enough riders had a bad accident on an ebike with no speed limit, in an isolated area and because they were travelling faster than their skill level, or because the ebike is not designed for that purpose, etc, then government would introduce legislation to crack down on it.

Even if it was just because of the astronomical cost involved with air ambulances, etc.

If it's mixed used public trails, irrespective of whether they are remote or not, then there are usually rules (or etiquette) to follow, I just don't understand how it is a "Karen" issue at all.

If those rules or etiquette are ignored by enough ebike riders, then the government would introduce legislation to crack down on it.

I also genuinely don't understand why anyone would want to purchase a high-powered ebike, with no speed limit, and then thrash the hell out of them off-road, but especially when a motorbike will be a far safer option and do a far better job.

Have all the thrills they like, just don't do it in shared public spaces where their behaviour may impact on other users.

 

[Bontee]

But what does this even mean?

If enough riders had a bad accident on an ebike with no speed limit, in an isolated area and because they were travelling faster than their skill level, or because the ebike is not designed for that purpose, etc, then government would introduce legislation to crack down on it.

Even if it was just because of the astronomical cost involved with air ambulances, etc.

If it's mixed used public trails, irrespective of whether they are remote or not, then there are usually rules (or etiquette) to follow, I just don't understand how it is a "Karen" issue at all.

If those rules or etiquette are ignored by enough ebike riders, then the government would introduce legislation to crack down on it.

I also genuinely don't understand why anyone would want to purchase a high-powered ebike, with no speed limit, and then thrash the hell out of them off-road, but especially when a motorbike will be a far safer option and do a far better job.

Have all the thrills they like, just don't do it in shared public spaces where their behaviour may impact on other users.

Quite right and very well put,it seems to me there are some folks who just want to complain about everything ‘Lancs