brakes: Saints vs XT M8120 vs Zee (all 4 piston)

rzr

Active member
Sep 26, 2022
344
215
bcn
enough is enough :) I have to get rid off Srams from my bikes :D
(I have SLX M7100/XT m8000 on my analog bike, and i'm happy with shimanos for last 10 years)

But, the questions is... which Shimanos... ?
Does anyone have comparison between new 4 piston XTs and Saints (power) ?
and where are Zees ?
 

Alexbn921

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2021
545
506
East Bay CA
All current gen Shimano use the same pistons in the calipers. The saints have a stiffer caliper that weighs more. It handles more heat and flexes less.

Leverage ratio of SLX, XT, XTR are all the same.

Saint uses a slightly more aggressive leverage ratio that provides more clamping with the same lever force. This is a very small difference.

The best of the best is XTR levers with saint calipers. You can use titanium brake retaining pins and Trickstuff pads to save 20g per caliper. You will be close to full XTR weight with almost saint power.
 

irie

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May 2, 2022
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Chichester, W.Sussex, UK
enough is enough :) I have to get rid off Srams from my bikes :D
(I have SLX M7100/XT m8000 on my analog bike, and i'm happy with shimanos for last 10 years)

But, the questions is... which Shimanos... ?
Does anyone have comparison between new 4 piston XTs and Saints (power) ?
and where are Zees ?
As far as I could see (and I stand to be corrected) Shimano M9120, M8120, M7120, M6120, and MT520 calipers all have the same size (ceramic) pistons so pretty much the same performance. Saw a deal on M6120 calipers and bought them, and with my M6100 levers have superb brakes with lots of 'feel' especially with Swissstop Catalyst Pro 220mm rotors front and rear.

Edit: as an ex-motorcyclist use quite a lot of front brake together with rear brake (depending on conditions of course).
 
Last edited:

jimbob

Active member
Aug 3, 2020
517
427
East UK
As far as I could see (and I stand to be corrected) Shimano M9120, M8120, M7120, M6120, and MT520 calipers all have the same size (ceramic) pistons so pretty much the same performance. Saw a deal on M6120 calipers and bought them, and with my M6100 levers have superb brakes with lots of 'feel' especially with Swissstop Catalyst Pro 220mm rotors front and rear.

Edit: as an ex-motorcyclist use quite a lot of front brake together with rear brake (depending on conditions of course).
If they're all the same braking force, what's the difference between the calipers? Just weight?
 

Robstyle

Member
Nov 17, 2021
94
115
New Zealand
There's significantly more material on a saint and the banjo is longer to help with heat.
Here's a terrible picture 😅 vvv

20230527_201045.jpg
 

irie

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May 2, 2022
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Chichester, W.Sussex, UK
If they're all the same braking force, what's the difference between the calipers? Just weight?
Weight difference just a few grams, can't see much performance difference (if any) with same BH90 hose. Which is why I put my money into quality larger 220mm rotors which provide a significant measurable improvement in both braking performance and heat dissipation.
 
Last edited:

Dax

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May 25, 2018
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If they're all the same braking force, what's the difference between the calipers? Just weight?
Saints are an older calliper design, very effective (when these work) but can be a bit on/off/grabby.

Even for a fairly chunky rider, saints are probably overkill for the uk.
 

Jurassic

Active member
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Jul 22, 2022
220
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Helensburgh, Scotland.
I've had two bikes with XTs and one with Saints and would say the difference in performance and feel is negligible if they're working properly. They're both very good. My caveat would be that the most recent XTs (on my Reign E+1) have never been consistent despite multiple pad changes and countless bleeds and I've ended up swapping the calipers for Magura MT5s and creating the hybrid Shigura set up that you may have heard about (phenomenal performance so far). If you get a good pair of XTs though I'm sure you'll be happy and to be fair my issues were only with one of the two brakes on my Reign (the rear performed as expected but my OCD forced me to change it to Magura to match the front).
 

Dax

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 25, 2018
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I've had two bikes with XTs and one with Saints and would say the difference in performance and feel is negligible if they're working properly. They're both very good. My caveat would be that the most recent XTs (on my Reign E+1) have never been consistent despite multiple pad changes and countless bleeds and I've ended up swapping the calipers for Magura MT5s and creating the hybrid Shigura set up that you may have heard about (phenomenal performance so far). If you get a good pair of XTs though I'm sure you'll be happy and to be fair my issues were only with one of the two brakes on my Reign (the rear performed as expected but my OCD forced me to change it to Magura to match the front).

Was that with the current XTs or the previous generation? The previous ones had a reputation for wandering bite point, but apparently it’s a lot more consistent now
 

Jurassic

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Jul 22, 2022
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Helensburgh, Scotland.
Was that with the current XTs or the previous generation? The previous ones had a reputation for wandering bite point, but apparently it’s a lot more consistent now
Ironically the only ones that I've had problems with are the latest ones. The XTs on my 2020 Orbea Rallon have been faultless. The front brake on my Giant (2022 XT) suffered all the issues (wandering bite point and micro leaking caliper contaminating pads)! Until I got the Giant I'd been a total Shimano brake fanboi. The Saint brakes on my fat bike have also been flawless. All I've done is swap pads when required, I've not even had to bleed them since installation.
 
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Jurassic

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Jul 22, 2022
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Helensburgh, Scotland.
Hi guys!
What do you think about Shimano SLX?
I've no personal experience with SLX but I've only heard good things about them. I think they're supposed to be just as good as XT but a bit cheaper to buy. They might be a fraction heavier and less blingy and do without the bite point adjustment (that makes hardly a difference anyway) but I think the performance is pretty much identical.
I'm sure somebody will be along who has actually used them to give a first hand account.
 

MH80

Member
Feb 20, 2021
36
17
Norway
Hi guys!
What do you think about Shimano SLX?
Same as XT. Only 34g difference, it doesnt have the dimples on the lever blades that the XT has. M6120 has basically the same power as M8120/7120 but no freestroke adjust on the lever.

Im replacing the sram brakes on my Tubor Levo for M6120.
 

JP-NZ

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2022
998
754
Christchurch - New Zealand
My last Enduro bike had Zee's, My Rail has XT M8120's and my DH bike has Saints

Saints = All the power in the world, expensive!, Grabby (which I like)
XT 4 pot M8120 = Good power & Modulation, still quite expensive
Zee's = Best bang for buck along with M7100 SLX 4 pots, great power (a level down from the 2 above) and the price is good! Can be hard to find nowdays as I thought Shimano was phasing them out? Uses the same pads as Saints
 

mtnbikerva1

Member
Mar 19, 2022
32
9
Mid-Atlantic
What is it about the SRAM brakes that you do not like? What model exactly do you have?
The code RSC will give you all the stopping power you could want, and in all weather. You can find a new set at a very inexpensive price right now. And you can find brake pads and MOTUL RBF 600(or any quality real brake fluid) for them anywhere also.
Stop and look at FACTS: Real brake fluid has been Proven all over the world! We know what it is, unlike the faux Brake fluid. DOT/depart of transportation fluid, is and has been used in: motorcycles, scooters , electric motorcycle, smaller aircraft, trucks, cars, ATVs, UTVS, ETC, For decades and super safe and easy to work with!
Have you ever changed the brake fluid in your vehicle?
DOT brake fluid R&R (remove and replac/change) Some companies may suggest as few as 20,000 miles while some will suggest that the vehicle may travel up to 150,000 miles before changing the brake fluid.
Do not listen to all the lies about real brake fluid, by brainwashed people.
The faux brake fluid and brakes can work well in certain conditions and quality construction also. But they do NOT meet the strict standards of DOT/real brake fluid!
Brake lever shape, feel and design may be a personal taste, choice etc. and part of the reason to choose a particular brake also.
What size rotor are you using? Going up in rotor size is always great.
Pads make a difference also.
 

rzr

Active member
Sep 26, 2022
344
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bcn
stop this BS ... :)
I switched to Saint (and I have Zee on the other bike, and SLX/XT on previous bikes) and I'm SUPER happy.
I had Sram G2 RE, Code R, RSC on bikes that I bought - far from Shimano performance.
rotor sizes the same, also tested with few different pads.
Shimano brakes FTW.
 

head

Active member
Jul 2, 2020
114
110
Slovakia
The code RSC will give you all the stopping power you could want, and in all weather.

It depends.

I'm OK with my Code brakes most of the time. Even when I'm in Saalbach, on most of the trails, the brakes are OK. But I haven't managed to ride the X-Line without a break on Code brakes. In the bottom part, I can barely brake and sometimes I need to use two fingers. When I had Saint brakes, I could ride the X-Line without a stop with no problem. I have 220/200 mm rotors. With Saints I had "only" 200mm rotors.

Edit: I only have Code R and Code RS brakes (on two different bikes), but I doubt that RSC would perform better.
 

JP-NZ

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2022
998
754
Christchurch - New Zealand
What is it about the SRAM brakes that you do not like? What model exactly do you have?
The code RSC will give you all the stopping power you could want, and in all weather. You can find a new set at a very inexpensive price
Ive used Code R's on my downhill bike and they are not even in the same ball park as Shimano brakes. Not enough power and gave me finger cramps after a couple of runs. Upgraded to Saints, best money I've spent.
 

mtnbikerva1

Member
Mar 19, 2022
32
9
Mid-Atlantic
Ive used Code R's on my downhill bike and they are not even in the same ball park as Shimano brakes. Not enough power and gave me finger cramps after a couple of runs. Upgraded to Saints, best money I've spent.
Glad it worked out for you!
There is a difference between the R., the S and the C in the SRAM line of brakes though.
I have and had Shimano and SRAM brakes at times I’ve had problems with both, but the SRAM brakes seem to be more stable and they are more logical to me.
I now have the SRAM code, RSCS, G2, RSC‘s, and the Shimano 9120 XTR 4 piston brakes.
i’ve had SRAM old guides that pumped up a decade and a half for more ago, but I have also recently had Shimano Ultegra and GRX brakes on my travel bike had leaking and contamination problems. So has my buddy with his Shimano brakes.
Also, I Camy Record.
But hey, it’s nice we have choices.
 
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Dax

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 25, 2018
1,453
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FoD
Glad it worked out for you!
There is a difference between the R., the S and the C in the SRAM line of brakes though.

Agreed, the R is pretty tough and reliable, works well if it has a decent bleed. Code Rs are fine for uk riding, ok in the alps too as long as you don’t drag your brakes.

I wouldn’t risk running RSCs, seen a couple completely fail now. One where the bite point adjuster failed and disconnected the lever from the master cylinder, halfway down a bike park lap in the alps, the other was some kind of internal failure, nothing happened when you pulled the lever and wouldn’t take a bleed.
 

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