Next step...

[OldGoatMTB]

A friend of mine just added DI2 to his bike and it got me wondering, can automatic shifting be far behind?

 

[steve_sordy]

Well if it is, I will not be an early adopter.

But I said that about CF mtb frames, 29ers, 1x, 11-speed, 12 speed, mid-fat tyres, emtb.
I now have 6 out of 7 of the above! (and I had the 7th on two other bikes!)

So If I think it's a bad idea, buy shares in it.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Definitely I would want to be able to disable the system and choose went to shift “manually”, But it seems as if everything needed is there, already. You already have a torque sensor, the motor knows the cadence, DI2 knows what gray you’re using and tells the mech when to move, you just need a bit of clever programming to sense that speed/cadence are dropping or increasing and an adjustment is called for. Obviously getting it usable isn’t that simple, but there are a lot of smart people around who could probably figure it out. I definitely would like to give it a try.

 

[RickBullotta]

IMO this will be coming but will likely be part of a different sort of gearbox/transmission - either a CVT style or a planetary gear setup, rather than a conventional derailleur/cassette system.

 

[Frankieboy]

ok, so it’s not an EMTB, but the technology already exists. skip to about 6 mins 30 sec.

 

[RickBullotta]

Yup. It's a CVT. And Shimano had a planetary gear system about 14 years ago.

Bike makers take automatic transmission for a spin

New "Coasting" system from Shimano is designed for people who don't exactly see themselves in Tour de France.

www.cnet.com

 

[steve_sordy]

Errr, I like that!

Great for a commuter bike. I didn't watch the whole video, but it sure looks heavy.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Uhmmm ...

Before I got back into this cycling lark, my last bike (excluding a Schwinn Rocket 3 I bought when they came out because it looked cool and I knew I would be an MTB natural .. promptly wiped out big time trying to jump a brook because MTB does not = defy gravity ... and sold it to a mate later that day for half price because I realised I was naturally inept ) .. I digress ....

Was .... a Raleigh Equipe - which had crazy lever things you moved to change gear (at the time this seemed perfectly normal and indexing didn't exist !) .. So these were really a bit like "stick shift" if you're American - it's a stick, you shift it ..

Now, you have push button gear change ! what more do you want !

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Now, you have push button gear change ! what more do you want !

That's a good point, and I think I probably would prefer to being in command of the transmission. I was just thinking that it does seem like we're almost there as far as the ability to have automatic shifting. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. Also, getting it to operate as smoothly as an automobile transmission is definitely a non-trivial exercise.

 

[urastus]

That's a good point, and I think I probably would prefer to being in command of the transmission. I was just thinking that it does seem like we're almost there as far as the ability to have automatic shifting. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. Also, getting it to operate as smoothly as an automobile transmission is definitely a non-trivial exercise.

yeah, I always sit back and let others work out the bugs. The one exception was seat droppers...there are some great ones now that just work, but five or so years ago they were generally expensive and short lived and very fickle. But they still had real value

 

[OldGoatMTB]

yeah, I always sit back and let others work out the bugs. The one exception was seat droppers...there are some great ones now that just work, but five or so years ago they were generally expensive and short lived and very fickle. But they still had real value

Remember when you first heard about dropper posts? I think most people thought it was interesting and possible useful but unnecessary. Many/most of us now consider them to be essential equipment, I know I did after 2-3 rides with one. Who knows what might seem essential in 5 or 10 years.

 

[urastus]

Remember when you first heard about dropper posts? I think most people thought it was interesting and possible useful but unnecessary. Many/most of us now consider them to be essential equipment, I know I did after 2-3 rides with one. Who knows what might seem essential in 5 or 10 years.

I remember trying to explain how they work and the advantages of them to work mates who were non riders. I think they questioned me after something I said like "my dropper stopped working". I didn't hear the end of dropper jokes for months after that - all of a sexual nature, fuckers

 

[RickBullotta]

Remember when you first heard about dropper posts? I think most people thought it was interesting and possible useful but unnecessary. Many/most of us now consider them to be essential equipment, I know I did after 2-3 rides with one. Who knows what might seem essential in 5 or 10 years.

I still consider them unnecessary. A 5mm allen wrench does the job suitably well and saves a pound of weight. ;-)

 

[MattyB]

Definitely I would want to be able to disable the system and choose went to shift “manually”, But it seems as if everything needed is there, already. You already have a torque sensor, the motor knows the cadence, DI2 knows what gear you’re using and tells the mech when to move, you just need a bit of clever programming to sense that speed/cadence are dropping or increasing and an adjustment is called for.

I suspect to make it work really well you would need a gradient sensor too; by the time cadence is dropping it might be too late to make a smooth change down under load. They could even integrate a sensor that scans the ground for changes in gradient a la F1 active suspension from the 90s - since it knows how fast you are going it could then change down just before you get to the incline! All possible, just not sure if it is really desirable or necessary...

 

[OldGoatMTB]

I suspect to make it work really well you would need a gradient sensor too; by the time cadence is dropping it might be too late to make a smooth change down under load. They could even integrate a sensor that scans the ground for changes in gradient a la F1 active suspension from the 90s - since it knows how fast you are going it could then change down just before you get to the incline! All possible, just not sure if it is really desirable or necessary...

I'm wondering if some of them don't already have that. I think on Shimano motors there is a setting for the angle at which the motor is installed. Or maybe I dreamed that up.

 

[MattyB]

I'm wondering if some of them don't already have that. I think on Shimano motors there is a setting for the angle at which the motor is installed. Or maybe I dreamed that up.

Yep, Yamaha definitely have it, I'm sure some of the others do too...

​

 

[speedkills]

That would be fun data to be able to collect from the bike. I would definitely like to know how steep a rock face I went down on a ride for example. I wonder if Brose has this?

 

[AdrianJW]

A friend of mine just added DI2 to his bike and it got me wondering, can automatic shifting be far behind?

I think it already exists for the E6000 system but not E8000.

 

[Johnnie]

Automatic gear shifting is a feature already offered by Shimano for the e6100 system when paired with an 8 speed Alfine Di2 internal gear hub - my wife makes use of this facility most of the time on her Volt Infinity LS hybrid. It’s still a work in process in my opinion, the system works fine in situations of low load, but when cycling hard or up hills it’s pretty hopeless.

 

[Timbo]

That would be fun data to be able to collect from the bike. I would definitely like to know how steep a rock face I went down on a ride for example. I wonder if Brose has this?

You can see the gradient data for levos using Blevo.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Automatic gear shifting is a feature already offered by Shimano for the e6100 system when paired with an 8 speed Alfine Di2 internal gear hub - my wife makes use of this facility most of the time on her Volt Infinity LS hybrid. It’s still a work in process in my opinion, the system works fine in situations of low load, but when cycling hard or up hills it’s pretty hopeless.

I was afraid that would be the case. In mountain biking you need to use visual info to shift preemptively. It would take a sophisticated system to do that, and it would help if it could read your mind, too!