saione

Member
Oct 19, 2020
21
73
Lerici
Ride
HAIBIKE NDURO 8.0
Rob,
I'm an happy owner of Haibike AllMtn SE 2021. You have tested in the past the AllMtn 7.
In your opinion, does the performances of Yeti 160E you've tested are really into another level with respect to AllMtn 7/SE?
My question is simply because i'm a Yeti fan ;).
Thanks.
 

David0208

Member
Mar 30, 2019
103
98
United Kingdom
Ride
Vitus E-Sommet VR
I also cannot find another 29er (full fat) with 160mm plus travel when I took a quick look... Its hard to fit all that travel in there in all frame sizes.
Orbea Wild FS, Whyte e180 . . . there are lots. However, it isn't about beating up Yeti specifically, yes you are right, all of those brands are extremely expensive. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me it is when we "normalise" the £10k plus bikes that's the issue. I saw another post on this thread say "But these prices are normal now" . . . only if we accept it and don't vote with our feet so to speak.

The analogy I used yesterday was, we seems to be more vocal about noise level of the shimano ep8 for example and just seem to accept the elephant in the room.
 

Jimbo Vills

E*POWAH Master
Subscriber
May 15, 2020
775
233
Kent
Ride
Tbc
Orbea Wild FS, Whyte e180 . . . there are lots. However, it isn't about beating up Yeti specifically, yes you are right, all of those brands are extremely expensive. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me it is when we "normalise" the £10k plus bikes that's the issue. I saw another post on this thread say "But these prices are normal now" . . . only if we accept it and don't vote with our feet so to speak.

The analogy I used yesterday was, we seems to be more vocal about noise level of the shimano ep8 for example and just seem to accept the elephant in the room.
I believe that comment was from me. And whilst I do agree with you, and would struggle to justify that expense on a bike (affordability and justification are two different things for everyone) if i chose not to purchase one, then they have more customers lining up to pay those prices faster than they can make them.

So unless you can organise a world wide boycott on bike purchases, unfortunately it looks like prices are here to stay. And prices will likely only plateau once demand slows. Cant see that happening anytime soon.
 

R120

Moderator
Subscriber
Apr 13, 2018
7,700
393
Surrey
The Whyte is a very different bikes to the yeti, Whyte is 27.5 and nearer to a dh bike (and is what I would buy if I was looking at a Kenevo type bike ).

The Orbea wild however is on paper a similar bike, 160 out back though only 160 on the fork. Looks good value at £8999 for the all singing and dancing M-Limited. The geometry is very different to the Yeti though, size L has 455 reach and its definitely an older generation of bike from that perspective. I doubt it would ride anything like the Yeti.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,356
443
the internet
Ride
ESommet VR
Intrigued by your review Rob. I only just got round to nerding out on this bike and I have to say YETI's marketing is genius/laughable depending on where your love of the brand lies.


E160E
WHILE EVERYONE ELSE WAS RACING TO MAKE AN E-MTB,
WE WERE MAKING AN E-MTB FOR RACING.​

(and they chose to put a Shimano motor in it?) EPIC FAIL!
🤣🤣🤣

EVERY TIME I FIND IT'S LIMIT.
I KEEP FINDING MINE.​
-Jared Graves, multi-time world champion and Olympian.
(oh and did we mention, cheat, confirmed doper and last placed finisher at the 2021 EWS-E?) 🤔

As for sixfinity. Yes it's a clever little extra link that (not too dissimilar to the idea behind infinity link on their SB bikes) allows YETI to design in good AS to the suspension kinematics. But it doesn't actually do anything groundbreaking. The axle path is still an arc around a virtual pivot point just like many other multi link designs (of which, most these days do also generally have very good AS traits).

Their claim that their SIX BAR DESIGN uses all SIX linkages to control axle path is kinda laughable too. Seeing as all FOUR LINKAGES control the axle path of any horst 4-bar or dual LINK VPP and CAN also be tuned just as easily by any savy designer to give good AS and AR curves and values at certain points (ie. Sag)

Have to agree with hobnob about YETI's bearing and frame warranty claims

It does look to have decent geometry. And adjustable leverage curve isn't a bad thing.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Billybopsbasher

Mcharza

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Aug 10, 2018
1,950
373
Helsinki, Finland
Ride
Kenovo SL and Evo
I'm thinking of setting up a new bike brand. Assuming I can get components in this day and age ..

I thought something downhill orientated , brand called "BeaVer" .. (with an 8 point linkage)

£15k minimum ..

Tag line something like "It loves you going down on it".
And we start betting on which one comes earlier for delivery, yours or Forestal 😂
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Zimmerframe

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
orbea wild fs - although I wish it was a mullet as I keep buzzing my arse on the back wheel
Yeah I wish there was a flip chip on mine I even have a decent spare 27.5 wheel and would be fun to muck about with.
But if it could only be one or the other, I think I'd stay 29er tbh.
 

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
The Orbea wild however is on paper a similar bike, 160 out back though only 160 on the fork. Looks good value at £8999 for the all singing and dancing M-Limited. The geometry is very different to the Yeti though, size L has 455 reach and its definitely an older generation of bike from that perspective. I doubt it would ride anything like the Yeti.
I have the Orbea and I wouldn't rather it was longer reach. I've had long analog bikes and I honestly don't get the trend of going so long - but then my local trails are pretty tight I guess, relatively. I'd rather be able to get the bike down under me and my weight on the front wheel more easily, with the longer bikes I had in the past I couldn't seem to do that as well.
Might be a flexibility thing though :)
Or maybe I'm a bit of a T-rex...
 
Last edited:

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
-Jared Graves, multi-time world champion and Olympian.
(oh and did we mention, cheat, confirmed doper and last placed finisher at the 2021 EWS-E?) 🤔
Yeah he really should be over that life threatening brain cancer & surgeries to fix it by now. Maybe he needs to cheat or dope some more. :rolleyes:
 

Lee Dove

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2018
242
163
Scotland
Ride
YT Decoy, YT Jeffsy
After seeing the price of some of the EBikes now I looked at the price of electric motorbikes for a comparison. I know they are exactly not the same but apart from pedal cranks and cut-off software they would seem very comparable.

There is a new Suron MX bike (full size) that will be £8000 with a very high power motor and large battery. Most are in the £5000 range using DH bike components.

Some of these EMTB makers are taking the pi"£
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Doomanic

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
I have the Orbea and I wouldn't rather it was longer reach. I've had long analog bikes and I honestly don't get the trend of going so long
I was thinking about this, and I realised maybe the longer reach (or not) thing has a lot to do with pedal choice. Because I ride flats, I'm heels down and riding further back on the bike a lot (which more reach will oppose somewhat), and I'm intentionally shifting forward and weighting the front when I need a moment of traction to turn. If I was clipped in I wouldn't need my heels down so much and would likely ride up front more, this might mean a longer front would make sense.
 
Last edited:

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
A real issue for me will be if Knolly make an ebike :)

I've had two Knolly bikes and absolutely loved the kinematics and industrial build quality of both. I don't think I could resist. I really hope they release one, but not until I've hit a few financial goals I'm working on lol...
 

jgusta

New Member
Mar 21, 2021
13
23
USA
Ride
2020 Trek Rail 9.7
The ride quality of this bike is amazing:

Excellent e-review as always Rob. Always appreciate you pointing out the little niggles for these super bikes that can be little nuisances in real riding life. Charging a bike in over 10hrs is no go for me right there and 630 w/hr battery for this price of bike a no go for me as well. Purpose of ebikes is to go much further and on terrain beyond normal capacities of regular bikes. I love my Rail mostly (minus RIB), but only capable of going same distance as I did on regular bike, albeit in sorter period of time. For this, looking at 2nd battery add on in car to grab for more riding.

Anyhoo, 160E looks fantastic in geo, travel, wheel size and sounds ride ability.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,356
443
the internet
Ride
ESommet VR
@Zed - your preference for a shorter reach is definitely (as you've realised) down to your riding style.
But that isn't down to your pedal choice.

it's perfectly possible to ride over the front on flat pedals just as it is to ride off the back when clipped in.
The riding position is not exclusive to each pedal style.

Try riding with only your front foot heel down and your rear foot toe down (cranks level or just a touch back from level). it's a very stable footing position over rough ground and should keep your body forwards more

 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmerframe

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
Try riding with only your front foot heel down and your rear foot toe down (cranks level or just a touch back from level). it's a very stable footing position over rough ground and should keep your body forwards more
I do that sometimes yeah, kind of like a lunge/one legged squat feeling bracing against the one front foot. I guess I'm thinking more of a few specific fast rocky trails where the jarring is so much it gets difficult to see wtf is coming and I'm clinging on for dear life :)
Something to think about more out on the trail though, thanks
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,356
443
the internet
Ride
ESommet VR
kind of like a lunge/one legged squat feeling bracing against the one front foot
Nah.
With your front foot heel down and rear toe down they should be braced opposingly and a lot more evenly.
Certainly not one leg doing all the work.
If you're new to it don't start trying it on
fast rocky trails where the jarring is so much it gets difficult to see wtf is coming and I'm clinging on for dear life :)
until you've figured it out.

Most flat pedal mtb riders these days rely on super sticky soles doing the bulk of the work in keeping their feet in place for them.
For many riders (especially new riders or riders switching to flat pedals) the stiffness and bulk of most sticky soled mtb shoes deadens the information they'd otherwise recieve trelling them what is actually going on below with their foot positioning and loading.
it's one of the reasons I don't use them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zed

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
the stiffness and bulk of most sticky soled mtb shoes deadens the information they'd otherwise recieve trelling them what is actually going on below with their foot positioning and loading.
it's one of the reasons I don't use them.
I'm curious, what do you use with flat pedals then?
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,356
443
the internet
Ride
ESommet VR
skate shoes with decent sole flexibility and feel.
(Vans for pumptrack/urban/commuting. Etnies for mtb)

I do have a couple of pairs of 5:10 freeriders and a couple of pairs of Etnies camber crank (Michelin soles) - I just don't wear them because the soles are stiffer and grippier than I like.
 

KSL

New Member
Jul 10, 2021
164
48
SoCal
Ride
22 Kenevo SL
skate shoes with decent sole flexibility and feel.
(Vans for pumptrack/urban/commuting. Etnies for mtb)

I do have a couple of pairs of 5:10 freeriders and a couple of pairs of Etnies camber crank (Michelin soles) - I just don't wear them because the soles are stiffer and grippier than I like.
MTB flat shoes are stiff for several reasons, but if you've ever taken a tree stump to the front of your foot at speed, you'll quickly appreciate the architecture of an MTB shoe.
 

Zed

Active member
Feb 26, 2019
170
103
Brisbane, Australia
Ride
2018 Turbo Levo
(Vans for pumptrack/urban/commuting. Etnies for mtb)
Interesting...
MTB flat shoes are stiff for several reasons, but if you've ever taken a tree stump to the front of your foot at speed, you'll quickly appreciate the architecture of an MTB shoe.
Yeah it's my first thought too. Sometimes when I'm trying to pedal up stuff that only an emtb will get up, I wedge my foot between a root and the pedal with motor torque overrun on the back wheel, and am very thankful for my 5:10s :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Gary