why aren´t we seeing more bikes with other brands systems ?


ggx

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why aren´t we seeing more bikes with other brands systems ?
For ex from Pollini, Sachs, etc ?
Why aren´t components shortage boosting other brands?
It´s a lack of quality, price?
What do you think?
 

Slowroller

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Because motor mount configurations are not universal, and tooling for frame molds is very expensive. Going with a smaller, lesser known and less tested motor manufacturer is risky, and you’re committed to that decision for several years. It could break your company if it all goes wrong, look at Brose & specialized and what they had to eat in warranty. For a small company, that’d ruin them. Add in that consumers are wary of an unknown motor, and it’s difficult for other manufacturers to get substantial OEM contracts.
 

Kernow

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I think it’s about trust and compatibility in a known brand vs demand . Are you talking about general group set parts , like gears and brakes etc , or ebike specific stuff , motors etc .
 

04fuxake

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Because motor mount configurations are not universal, and tooling for frame molds is very expensive. Going with a smaller, lesser known and less tested motor manufacturer is risky, and you’re committed to that decision for several years. It could break your company if it all goes wrong, look at Brose & specialized and what they had to eat in warranty. For a small company, that’d ruin them. Add in that consumers are wary of an unknown motor, and it’s difficult for other manufacturers to get substantial OEM contracts.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a frame come out with a universal mount system that used adapter inserts for the different motors e.g. take a motor, bolt the adapter to it and then bolt that into the frame. That would make pivoting to a different motor trivial for a manufacturer since they'd only have to re-tool an adapter.
 
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paul20v

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Mar 19, 2021
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a frame come out with a universal mount system that used adapter inserts for the different motors e.g. take a motor, bolt the adapter to it and then bolt that into the frame. That would make pivoting to a different motor trivial for a manufacturer since they'd only have to re-tool an adapter.
Its a fine idea but we like intergration these days
As i see it a lot of intergration is achieved with moulded plastic this in its self leads to more problems from a universal fit standpoint
You also then have battery issues
I know some companys like shimano allow other battery manufacturers in but many dont
There so many variables it wouldnt happen
It would be good thou .
 

Jorel

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I'm surprised there hasn't been a frame come out with a universal mount system that used adapter inserts for the different motors e.g. take a motor, bolt the adapter to it and then bolt that into the frame. That would make pivoting to a different motor trivial for a manufacturer since they'd only have to re-tool an adapter.
The idea might be quite good.

Reality:
You can't buy Bosch, Yamaha or the others without returning the old motor (except Bafang as far as I know)
They don't want exactly this to happen what you suggested.

So it's almost impossible to get a new motor and warranty on it.
If a brand would invent a bike-frame that is able to sport various motors, how would warranty be handled from the manufacturer in case of engine failure and as a result of this a possible frame damage, if you (yourself) would switch to another motor during warranty?
 

Kernow

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Warranty is with the motor manufacturer they don’t care what make of bike it’s fitted to . It does seem mad you can’t buy can’t buy a motor system and build your own ebike
 

Jorel

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Warranty is with the motor manufacturer they don’t care what make of bike it’s fitted to . It does seem mad you can’t buy can’t buy a motor system and build your own ebike
I'm referring to a frame damage caused by motor failure.
 

Sidepod

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I'm surprised there hasn't been a frame come out with a universal mount system that used adapter inserts for the different motors e.g. take a motor, bolt the adapter to it and then bolt that into the frame. That would make pivoting to a different motor trivial for a manufacturer since they'd only have to re-tool an adapter.
There’s an echo in here!
 

Sidepod

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£100 says most of the Taiwanese companies that make all of these frames have tooling with various inserts to suit whatever motor the customer desires.

“Bosch sir. No problem. $200”.
 

smtkelly

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What would be good is some gentlemans agreement on standardisation. Bolt patterns, battery connectors, chargers, battery shapes, etc. It just reminds me of disc brakes mounts when they first came out its still a mess but some what in the same ball park.

I don't see it happening unless the manufactures club together demanding it (given 20/21 shortages) or a company gets a patent on a game changing design its unlikely they want to play with each other :/
 

Sidepod

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Deffo a gap in the market for a custom brand who’ll offer whatever motor you want.

It’s quite exciting being here at the start of all of this. Imagine in 5 or 10 years time we will look back and wonder why we bothered. I hope!
 

ggx

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I think it’s about trust and compatibility in a known brand vs demand . Are you talking about general group set parts , like gears and brakes etc , or ebike specific stuff , motors etc .
ebike specific , motors , etc
 

ggx

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As more brands have presented systems/motors I was expeting to see now days bikes with them, but it didn´t appen so far.
 

B1rdie

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At this moment I would say delivery of goods and lack of supply chain is restraining all small business much more than the big players.
as per integration, I do not agree that everyone demands it, only the buyers aiming at the higher priced bikes care about this.
 

Norange

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£100 says most of the Taiwanese companies that make all of these frames have tooling with various inserts to suit whatever motor the customer desires.

“Bosch sir. No problem. $200”.
You might be right - the obvious proof for that would be different manufacturers with extremely similar frames and different motors. That still doesn't give you a finished frame able to fit a variety of motors, does it?
 

Clubby

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E bikes have to comply to very specific legislation to be allowed to be classed as bicycles. No big motor player is going to let it’s motors be potentially mis-used leaving them open to legal action. Eg Buying a Bosch cx 4 and saying to them it’s for a 20” wheel commuter bike and putting it in a 29er would give a top speed way above the EU limit. ( on a very rough calculation 24mph instead of 16.5).
Chinese manufacturers don’t give a crap about legal requirements and will sell you anything you ask for. Look at all the ebike kits eBay.
 

Sidepod

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You might be right - the obvious proof for that would be different manufacturers with extremely similar frames and different motors. That still doesn't give you a finished frame able to fit a variety of motors, does it?
Well yes. Just make an insert that is good for an adapter plate then lay up a frame, and fit the adapter to suit your motor.
 

Pivot

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Right now eMTB is in a Bonanza growth market with fat margins. Differentiation rules and customers buy all available stock.

Once the market matures and growth slows down, it will force manufacturers to standardise more to reduce costs and protect margins. However, we are few years away from that point.

In the meantime... let’s ride!