What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread

Dirtnvert

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Jumpers for goalposts, isn't it, wasn' it? ;)
Intense tyres could always be a bit hit or miss. From their their soft compoujnds that lost sideknobs every run. to the massively heavy 4 plys and odd tread paterns. They did have some tyres early on that were well ahead of the curve. Remember the Comp 50 2.7? that was like 1999.
I still have a few old intense tyres kicking about and a few prototype michies that never got put into production.
1100-1200g is about right for DH for me now. 850-900g ish (but higher pressures) for absolutely everything else.
Yes, comp 50’s before they changed manufacturer and the knobs were pulling off
I can’t run eco/grid weight tires around here. I’ve settled in the 1100g weight w Huck norris in the rear for my trail and enduro bike. Just sold the enduro bike with maxxis dhf dd/Onza citius en/fr. My trail bike has wild rockr2 front/wild enduro r with Huck Norris rear
So far so good but if I go to the dh trails the speeds get up after a few laps and I think I want proper dh casing tires. Next yr the ski hill is opening for emtb and there was talk on access for other trails with emtb’s(not sure how that’s going) so I may need some dh tires. Probably be g5’s Unless Michelin releases that dh tire Sam and Cam have
 

Markymark

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I have never heard of sewing tears in a tyre wall. How easy is it? Any special techniques? What size needle and what thread do you use. How many threads per inch of tear? Is there a maximum tear length? Fishing line was mentioned, what breaking strain do you recommend? Am I right to assume a thimble is required? :)

So many questions....:unsure:
If you look up GMBN YouTube channel Doddy, the presenter shows you how.
 

outerlimits

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Bloody sidewalls, i’ve torn 6 where the bead meets the rim. 2 x Butcher Grids, 3x Minion DHR EXO, one 3c, and two dual compound. And 1x Minion DHF EXO dual compound.
The last one was running a tube that never dropped below 30psi and the tube has never flated. I have tried all pressures from 22-35psi. These were all 27.5x2.8, and the rim is definitely not damaged ( checked with dial gauge) and I have even sanded the rim at the bead to remove rough spots. Hopefully getting some of the new Spesh Eliminators for Christmas in 2.6. Black Dimond rear and grid front.
If anyone suggests inserts, i’ll throw hands !
 

Dirtnvert

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Bloody sidewalls, i’ve torn 6 where the bead meets the rim. 2 x Butcher Grids, 3x Minion DHR EXO, one 3c, and two dual compound. And 1x Minion DHF EXO dual compound.
The last one was running a tube that never dropped below 30psi and the tube has never flated. I have tried all pressures from 22-35psi. These were all 27.5x2.8, and the rim is definitely not damaged ( checked with dial gauge) and I have even sanded the rim at the bead to remove rough spots. Hopefully getting some of the new Spesh Eliminators for Christmas in 2.6. Black Dimond rear and grid front.
If anyone suggests inserts, i’ll throw hands !
I would have said there’s a burr or rough spot on the rim sidewall but you’ve addressed that. The problem I had with exo/grids was pinching them across the top under the tread casing. The sidewalks are reinforced a bit(albeit still too flex in my opinion) but under the tread is still single wall. Is it possible your rims inner width is too narrow for the tire? Spitballing but I could see that effecting that area if your tire sidewall is more curved rather than straight up and down. I had the most problems with grids and exo’s on Mavic maxtal rims. Tough aluminium but too stiff for their narrow width(23mm) with a 2.5 exo. If it is indeed pinching a tire insert should help
 

outerlimits

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I would have said there’s a burr or rough spot on the rim sidewall but you’ve addressed that. The problem I had with exo/grids was pinching them across the top under the tread casing. The sidewalks are reinforced a bit(albeit still too flex in my opinion) but under the tread is still single wall. Is it possible your rims inner width is too narrow for the tire? Spitballing but I could see that effecting that area if your tire sidewall is more curved rather than straight up and down. I had the most problems with grids and exo’s on Mavic maxtal rims. Tough aluminium but too stiff for their narrow width(23mm) with a 2.5 exo. If it is indeed pinching a tire insert should help
Probs not aye, as the rims are a confirmed 38mm inner width. It’s a 2018 Levo and original figment was 2.8 Butchers. The 2017 had 3.0 on the same rims.
As for pinching, I have solely used a tube in the latest Minion DHF EXO and never flatted it. So I thought the tube would suffer from a pinch flat before the Tyre gave out.
Scratching my head, and don’t want to run inserts as they are a pain if wanting to repair out on the trail.
The split does not discriminate where on the rim, or even a preferred side. But it’s always the rear that lets go.
 

Dirtnvert

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Bit out of my wheelhouse. I’ve never run plus size tires. The Michelin’s and the maxxis that Gary mentioned(not sure if he meant dh or dd casing or maybe both)have additional protection in that area of the tire sidewall. Maybe those new blck dmnd’s do as well. Possibly worth considering apart from the additional 250grams. I found my happy spot and had zero flats last year,with 1100gram tires, and only one rim ding , but that was a race face arc rim w butter in the aluminium. Maybe it was luck but I heard a lot less rim contact on my Michelin than the dd or onza fr/end(same weight and manufacturer as maxxis dd’s). Was funny after chatting w Gary on tires I watched the latest “loam ranger” yt edit. Don’t know if you follow his youtube channel but he’s working with “pole” and was in Madeira with the team testing. He mentioned that they’re testing/comparing maxxis and Michelin . Team recommended he try the Michelin’s . Take it with a grain of salt because I think they’ve already inked the sponsorship deal but I found it interesting that they preferred the Michelin’s . I think they’re still testing and finalizing the dh tire yet to be released and using maxxis is their benchmark
 

steve_sordy

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Bloody sidewalls, i’ve torn 6 where the bead meets the rim. .................!
Are you sure it was a tear and not just a failure?
On my clockwork bike I am running 27.5 x 2.2" Conti Trail King, with sidewall Protection, with black chilli compound, tubeless. Twice now the tyrewall has failed at the bead. The gap was big enough to get all four fingers through. The 1st tyre went after 442m, 2nd after 402m. Once I looked back on the events, both failures were preceded by a bigger than usual pressure loss from one ride to the next for a week or so. Instead of 0-1 psi, it was more like 3-5. I just put more sealant in. There was no obvious sealant leakage at the point until the total failure.
The key point is that on each tyre, the failure was on the same side and in the same place radially with respect to the Conti logo. That points to a manufacturing defect to me. Conti accepted that and I was refunded without argument on both occasions. I had to send a photo of the area of failure and one of the tread, which was fair enough.

I'm still using Conti TKs, but I bought from a different place to try to ensure I bought from a different production run. Time will tell, but I'm on 394 miles with the 3rd tyre! No pressure loss yet, but oohh err! :unsure:

Now I've looked up the info to write this and am aware of where that 3rd tyre is, it would make sense to check the tyre bead at that point. Hmm, what a fag!
 

flash

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I'm still running the supplied Minion DHRII, 2.8's on my Merida e-one sixty. For the conditions I ride here in Oz (mostly HARD with some rock and patches of sandy stuff) I find them good, except that the steering feels a bit less precise than I'd like.

The obvious solution is to try a thinner tyre, maybe a 2.6 (or 2.5??). However, I do worry about then digging in more on the sandy parts of the track. I've done a Superman impression already, although my pressures were too high when I did that (I feel like I have them dialled in now). I usually run 25 in the back and 19 up front, after some experimentation. I'm 92 kg.

Do you think a 2.6 will improve the handling a bit? And should I do just front or both. I do understand I'll lose about 5mm of BB height, which should be OK as I'm already planning a slightly shorter crank as an upgrade.

Gordon
 

outerlimits

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Are you sure it was a tear and not just a failure?
On my clockwork bike I am running 27.5 x 2.2" Conti Trail King, with sidewall Protection, with black chilli compound, tubeless. Twice now the tyrewall has failed at the bead. The gap was big enough to get all four fingers through. The 1st tyre went after 442m, 2nd after 402m. Once I looked back on the events, both failures were preceded by a bigger than usual pressure loss from one ride to the next for a week or so. Instead of 0-1 psi, it was more like 3-5. I just put more sealant in. There was no obvious sealant leakage at the point until the total failure.
The key point is that on each tyre, the failure was on the same side and in the same place radially with respect to the Conti logo. That points to a manufacturing defect to me. Conti accepted that and I was refunded without argument on both occasions. I had to send a photo of the area of failure and one of the tread, which was fair enough.

I'm still using Conti TKs, but I bought from a different place to try to ensure I bought from a different production run. Time will tell, but I'm on 394 miles with the 3rd tyre! No pressure loss yet, but oohh err! :unsure:

Now I've looked up the info to write this and am aware of where that 3rd tyre is, it would make sense to check the tyre bead at that point. Hmm, what a fag!
As I said, different tyres, different brands, different spots on the rim. Tubes, no tubes, different pressures. Failure, split, tear, call it what ya want.
Bummer now, is i’m Waiting to see if any tyres come for Christmas. However, a cyclone is on it’s way so not much riding will be done.
 

Gary

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Dude. From everything you've said the only constant is the rim and the guy who fitted the tyres. I don't for one minute think it's likely for anyone no matter how inexperienced to fit 6 different tyres so badly they'd damage them installing (but it can't be counted out) so that leaves one thing. The actual rim.
 

outerlimits

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Dude. From everything you've said the only constant is the rim and the guy who fitted the tyres. I don't for one minute think it's likely for anyone no matter how inexperienced to fit 6 different tyres so badly they'd damage them installing (but it can't be counted out) so that leaves one thing. The actual rim.
You’re right Gary, but it still baffles me. I bloody put a dial gauge on the rim, on the inner and outer edge and nothing stood out. I have used emery paper to smooth any rough edges. And it still happens at different spots on the rim, and even different sides. Time before last it happened right at the valve stem non drive side.
I line the stem up in between the XX in Maxxis, maybe because I’m a bit ocd.
This time it happened drive side where it says DHF, and I had a bloody tube in it and 27psi. Did not even flat.
 

outerlimits

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Hard to see, but it bulges out it that point. Not real bad this time, as it’s running a tube. Other times with sealant, it suddenly let’s go and goes flat.

626a1db3-4ed9-4bbe-852c-39612529d063-jpeg.8756


a1a4d6e3-6163-48d4-a65b-18b1dea14962-jpeg.8757
 

Gary

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You’re right Gary, but it still baffles me. I bloody put a dial gauge on the rim, on the inner and outer edge and nothing stood out. I have used emery paper to smooth any rough edges.
It's nothing to do with roughness of the rim edge. It's to do with the rim edge profile, stiffness of the rim material and the width of the rim relative to the tyre width you're using (ie. the profile it's creating as the sidewall leaves the rim hook.
Sounds like a very unlucky combination your choce of tyre just isn't tough enough to handle.
It happens.


I've only ever had a similar problen with one rim ever. it was an indestructible super stiff old skool Sun-ringle DH rim. There was nothing I could do to make it waor for rough DH tracks so ultimately I had to get rid of it.

Your cheapest option is to buy a new rim online with similar ERD. tape it to the old one and transfer all your spokes to the new rim. If you're not confident to build a new wheel take it to your best local wheelbuilder to finish it for you.

Don't ask me which rim to buy as I'd absoloutely NEVER run a 2.8 tyre. Sorry.
 

outerlimits

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It's nothing to do with roughness of the rim edge. It's to do with the rim edge profile, stiffness of the rim material and the width of the rim relative to the tyre width you're using (ie. the profile it's creating as the sidewall leaves the rim hook.
Sounds like a very unlucky combination your choce of tyre just isn't tough enough to handle.
It happens.


I've only ever had a similar problen with one rim ever. it was an indestructible super stiff old skool Sun-ringle DH rim. There was nothing I could do to make it waor for rough DH tracks so ultimately I had to get rid of it.

Your cheapest option is to buy a new rim online with similar ERD. tape it to the old one and transfer all your spokes to the new rim. If you're not confident to build a new wheel take it to your best local wheelbuilder to finish it for you.

Don't ask me which rim to buy as I'd absoloutely NEVER run a 2.8 tyre. Sorry.
Informative and helpful once again Gary.
After looking around and the web, I have found other cases of Spesh 38mm inner rims and 2.8 tires doing the same thing.
I’m going to give a 2.6 Spesh Eliminator a go with a tougher black Dimond casing.

As for tapping a new rim with similar ERD, to the old and transferring spokes. Genius method.
One last try with a 2.6, before I go down the new rim method.
Cheers
 
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Dirtnvert

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Yes that does make sense . Taping a rim the same erd to your wheel and transferring spokes takes about an hour and a half. I usually bring the nipples up to the top of the threads on the spokes, then bring the spokes to minimal tension, put it on mybike(I don’t have a truing stand), then go around the wheel giving one spoke at a time a full turn or 2 until its close to finish tension and relatively centered/dished on you’re bike, then I tape a pen on my chainstays at the rim sidewall to true and center perfectly and finish thetension. Pretty straight forward if you go in small increments so you end with even tension.
I’ve been holding out the possibility of trying plus sized tire on the rear to climb some of the trails I’ve been eyeing up that at this point have been hike a bikes. Still undecided though. I can’t see going wider than my 2.35 Michelin wild rockr2 (equivalent width of a 2.5 dhf) on the front . I had a 2.6 magic Mary(probably 2.75 maxxis width) and I liked it especially for steep braking in a straight line and it did eat up a bit more of the rough. I found it too floaty in most corners though. Worth pointing out that Loic Bruni’s tire choice for this years world champs win was a 2.3 butcher front and rear(equivalent to a 2.45 maxxis or there about). Tire choice is so subjective to where you ride and what your intentions are though
 

Dirtnvert

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Yeesh!I used to hate throwing away tires with plenty of tread. No mo exo/grid for me. What about the underside of the rim hook? Be nice to know why that’s happening
 

outerlimits

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Yeesh!I used to hate throwing away tires with plenty of tread. No mo exo/grid for me. What about the underside of the rim hook? Be nice to know why that’s happening
Sanded it all smooth and still does it. Hopes Santa brings me some new Eliminators in Black Dimond casing.
 

Dirtnvert

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I remember saying you took an emery cloth to it. Thought that might have been the lip of the rim and might not have looked at the underside. That’s strange, I just haven’t seen repeated cases of that . Hope the new treads work for you. Be interested to hear how those blk dmnds are regardless
 

outerlimits

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I remember saying you took an emery cloth to it. Thought that might have been the lip of the rim and might not have looked at the underside. That’s strange, I just haven’t seen repeated cases of that . Hope the new treads work for you. Be interested to hear how those blk dmnds are regardless
If the new treads fail, i’ll have no choice but to go new wheels. Lucky my Birthday is in February..
 

Gary

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That pic makes me sad! :cry:

As a temporary band aid fix you could try removing your tubeless tape and fitting a split 20" innertube so it fills the rim bed and covers the outer edge of your rim. Often referred to as ghetto tubeless this would give a little more sidewall protection to your tyre. but by the looks of the above pic may still not solve your issues,
Got any pics of the rim channel/edge? Might not be obvious from a pic but there has to be something seriously wrong with the construction/shape to have ripped 7 tyre beads in succession.
 

steve_sordy

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@outerlimits: Are you by any chance running much lower pressure than recommended? I know I do, and I have had two failures like that, ie on the bead (rear wheel). My riding weight is 203lbs, 92kg on a 27.5 x 2.2" rear tyre, run tubeless with 24psi. If I go down to 22psi on the rear, the tyre burps when cornering hard (well, hard for me).

I guess that is another way of asking if you have tried higher pressures?
 

outerlimits

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@outerlimits: Are you by any chance running much lower pressure than recommended? I know I do, and I have had two failures like that, ie on the bead (rear wheel). My riding weight is 203lbs, 92kg on a 27.5 x 2.2" rear tyre, run tubeless with 24psi. If I go down to 22psi on the rear, the tyre burps when cornering hard (well, hard for me).

I guess that is another way of asking if you have tried higher pressures?
Last fail was 27psi and this time running a tube.
 

outerlimits

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That pic makes me sad! :cry:

As a temporary band aid fix you could try removing your tubeless tape and fitting a split 20" innertube so it fills the rim bed and covers the outer edge of your rim. Often referred to as ghetto tubeless this would give a little more sidewall protection to your tyre. but by the looks of the above pic may still not solve your issues,
Got any pics of the rim channel/edge? Might not be obvious from a pic but there has to be something seriously wrong with the construction/shape to have ripped 7 tyre beads in succession.
Somethings off for sure Gary.
The rims have a bead hook, and I much prefer hookless design.
I believe the tyres are too wide for a 38mm inner rim with a hook. The sidewalls with the large volume tyres bagging and putting the wall at a great angle to the rim. I think going down in Tyre size and having straighter sidewalls on a shitty rim design would be better for Tyre bead durability.
I just think the rim is of a shit design for my type of riding.
Done the ghetto tables a few times in my life, and it works great, but sometimes a pain when doing trail repairs and getting it to sit right again.
 
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outerlimits

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Santa came through with a pair of Spesh Eliminators. Grid case for the front and Black Dimond case for the rear.
The black Dimond casing is way stiffer than the Grid, like comparing the flexibility of a sheet of paper to a box sheet of cardboard.
Had my first decent run on them today and I must say, I like very much, especially on the rear.

fd082d36-76f4-42c2-a5bc-b512bf3c5ce9-jpeg.9130
 

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