STEPS E8000 Motor Service


Spiff

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There was one shim washer between the case and one 6900ZZ that was in five pieces. This was replaced
Hi PoppyRex, thank you for posting your results. Can you please give more information or pictures of the shim washer replacement
 

PoppyRex

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Hi PoppyRex, thank you for posting your results. Can you please give more information or pictures of the shim washer replacement
the shim washer was between the case and the bearing on the end of the large plastic gear. The shim washer is 21.8mm OD, 18.2mm ID ans 0.3mm thick.

MVIMG_20210811_130030[1].jpg
 
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Strindberg

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Bonjour from Strasbourg in Alsace, France.

I made my presentation here.

I have a Husqvarna GT2 now with a STePS E8000, and before with two E7000... with W013 + E010 .
The first one collapsed without merci after 1200 km, the second unit after 2500 km in Sweden.
An accu BT-E8010 à 504 Wh collapsed after 500 km, and my three other BT-E8010 have only 88% Restcapacity after~~ 52 loadcycles each.

The third drive unit, the E8000, has now 16077 km since the last change on 22. XII 2019.
I make never sprints, MTB and I am travelling to 99,99% with Eco High also in big hills with my trailor like a steamer and only on macadam.

But I think his further life of the E8000 could be shorter from now.
1) I hear the bearings like in a cyclical soft coffee mill only when I use Boost
2) If I stay beside my bike,
and I take with one hand a pedal through the frame and with the other the second one,
and if I push above and pull under, the crank has a play which makes also some clac-clac noise.

Congrats for this servicing thread !

I had also a very pleasant email thread with Peter Collard from Bearings Performance Line,
but I have also other questions about the spinning torque sensor and the day after rebuilding the drive unit...

Question 1: which kind of puller do you use to take away the several bearings. Can you give us pictures and references, please?
Question 2: you can read in a german forum pedelecofum.de a lot of disappointed users with error E010 after they rebuilt the drive unit
How ist it truelly?
Question 3 for @PoppyRex : I do not understand this thing with the washer. Can you give us a picture, please?
Question 4: grease, grease, grease... this point stays open in this thread.

20210812_111922.jpg


Nordkapp forum 2   .jpg
.

I am ready with 7 sealed ball bearings,
and not only with 2. I think it is better.
Without these 3 only shielded I shall have no problem with grease, leakage or a not compatible grease mix there.

That is why I should only need one grease for the teeth. Am I right, so?

Kit pour Moteur électrique Shimano STePS E8000.jpg
 
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PoppyRex

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Bonjour from Strasbourg in Alsace, France.

I made my presentation here.

I have a Husqvarna GT2 now with a STePS E8000, and before with two E7000... with W013 + E010 .
The first one collapsed without merci after 1200 km, the second unit after 2500 km in Sweden.
An accu BT-E8010 à 504 Wh collapsed after 500 km, and my three other BT-E8010 have only 88% Restcapacity after~~ 52 loadcycles each.

The third drive unit, the E8000, has now 16077 km since the last change on 22. XII 2019.
I make never sprints, MTB and I am travelling to 99,99% with Eco High also in big hills with my trailor like a steamer and only on macadam.

But I think his further life of the E8000 could be shorter from now.
1) I hear the bearings like in a cyclical soft coffee mill only when I use Boost
2) If I stay beside my bike,
and I take with one hand a pedal through the frame and with the other the second one,
and if I push above and pull under, the crank has a play which makes also some clac-clac noise.

Congrats for this servicing thread !

I had also a very pleasant email thread with Peter Collard from Bearings Performance Line,
but I have also other questions about the spinning torque sensor and the day after rebuilding the drive unit...

Question 1: which kind of puller do you use to take away the several bearings. Can you give us pictures and references, please?
Question 2: you can read in a german forum pedelecofum.de a lot of disappointed users with error E010 after they rebuilt the drive unit
How ist it truelly?
Question 3 for @PoppyRex : I do not understand this thing with the washer. Can you give us a picture, please?
Question 4: grease, grease, grease... this point stays open in this thread.

View attachment 72347

View attachment 72353 .

I am ready with 5 sealed ball bearings,
and not only with 2. I think it is better.
Without these 3 only shielded I shall have no problem with grease, leakage or a not compatible grease mix there.

That is why I should only need one grease for the teeth. Am I right, so?

View attachment 72398
Question 3: There is a thin shim washer that sits between the engine case and the bearing on the the end of the black plastic bearing. If you look at the picture I posted you can make out a couple of pieces of the shim washer on the end of the bearing,covered in grease and grime.
 
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Strindberg

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I come back to point 2 of my previous comment.

If I stay beside my bike,
and I take with one hand a pedal through the frame and with the other the second one,
and if I push above and pull under, all the crank has a play which makes a clac-clac noise.

You hear the noise which did not comes out from the clutch but from the ball bearings on both sides of the crank.

In situ you can very clearly distinguish the play in the axle which corresponds to 2 or 3 millimeters at the end of the pedals.

This highlights the evidence of badly worn ball bearings very easily.

And here my video


jeu pédalier Shimano STePS E8000.jpg

My engine is soon ripe for warranty replacement or for in-depth repair, I guess.

Tomorrow I shall do my greatest trip with my Husqvarna,
201 km from Strasbourg and between northern Alsace, the German Palatinate + Baden-Württemberg and the Rhine.
I hope my engine won't break on the way.

---------------

Edit: I wrote the same in a german forum
>>> https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/shimano-e8000-haltbarkeit
Somebody answered there, "this wobble is intended by Shimano in order to enable the sensor to function optimally".

I never read that here.
 
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Strindberg

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I made another Video this morning with Drive Unit ON and OFF, to avoid weird explanations

jeu pédalier Shimano STePS E8000  on et of  .jpg

And today, I shall not make my distance record,
because I expect clear answers from my bicycle dealer (who is playing dead for a couple of months) and from forumers around here.
 
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th3c0d3r

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Hello, I have 2 dead motors with error E01020 and 1 about to die with error W013 (you can read the whole drama here).
Now my idea is to replace the torque sensor of the motor that has the W013 with one from the other 2, will this work?
Is there anything I should keep an eye out for? I haven't opened any of the motors yet.
 
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JimmyBoy

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OK th3c0d3r, I know you have not taken your motor apart yet but I recently serviced my E8000 motor and noticed that the two connector receptacle latches for the flat brown ribbon FFC cables on the torque sensor can easily come open when handling this unit so check that the cable is fully inserted and the latches are closed.
1633074789536.png
 

JimmyBoy

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Without a circuit diagram I am pretty sure that is the complete torque sensor. It has no physical electrical connection and must transmit to the main board wirelessly somehow. The two FFC cables attach to potted units on the main shaft which I assume are some kind of strain gauge.Where it gets its power from I couldn't determine. I tried to read the IC part numbers to get a better understanding of the electronics but they have all been wiped off. If you look at this picture copied from @Spiff post of Sep 19 2021 you can just see the grey circular part at the bottom of my picture which is magnetic and must be a rotation sensor with possibly a hall sensor on the sensor PCB.
1633082007222.png
 
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Strindberg

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Thank you @JimmyBoy for pix and explanations.

But the main question stays open as well.

In all these lenghtened threads we would read about experiences about the days after rebuilding, I mean W013 + E010...

Peter Collard from Performance Line Bearings, the german well knownded @PeterMayer (eMax, miniMax derestricting SW... but I drive legal in continental Europe), but also in my country a french contact from Performance Line Bearings,
wrote me in a lot of very long emails, that it is as good as impossible, to recalibrate this spinning torque sensor
after you have taken it out of the Drive Unit or you have only disconnected it,
and that only Shimano in Japan have the machine to do it.


November 2019 I had a total collapse, W013 + E010, with my second new engine in Sweden with my heavy Husqvarna + trailor... and three BT-8010

Other question for @JimmyBoy and @th3c0d3r , how is it with the noisy crank wobble ?

20191020_143637.jpg
 
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Spiff

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The complete Torque Sensor = Electronic PCB + Shaft with potted sensors + Small PCB with white wires.

IMHO, if all the above is replaced with parts from the good donor motor, then the Torque Sensor Set should still be calibrated.
 
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JimmyBoy

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Spiff, I would say "Torque Sensor = Electronic PCB + Shaft with potted sensors + PCB with pink wires below the white plastic unit"
1633092886617.png
.
The PCB with white wires is probably a cadence sensor like this.
That grey magnet has a notch in it to align with the plastic carrier which holds it onto the torque sensor implying it does not have a uniform magnetic field like in the picture.

1633092742636.png












Picture From @S13 post Jul 5, 2021
1633107883622.png
 
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JimmyBoy

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Following on from my last post and with reference to E012 error:
During disassembly of my E8000 motor I took the clutch/torque unit out by pulling on the grey magnetic ring which came off of the plastic carrier. I noticed that this ring had what looked like double sided tape on the underside so I guessed it should be fixed onto the white plastic carrier. I also noted a notch in the grey ring and a small peg on one of the sections of the plastic carrier. I therefore assumed that it must be fixed back in a particular position which would include the way up. I marked what was the outside, cleaned off the double sided tape which was not sticky anymore and when I replaced the ring I glued it back with clear Bostick. I also noted that the white plastic carrier also had double sided tape on it to stop it rotating on the clutch/torque unit so again I applied clear Bostick.

I came across this post:Shimano Steps ebike E010 and E012 errors: DIY fix possible?

The relevant bit being:
The E012 error means that the torque sensor is misaligned. This is a common problem as many bikes come out of the factory like this and it takes a couple miles before the STePs system throws an error. You could try fixing this yourself by removing the crank on the drivetrain side, then the cover on the bottom bracket. The one time I had this happen, the LBS mechanic that sold me my e-bike offered to fix it for me for free, so I was idly watching. If I recall correctly, he was explaining that it was a magnet that needs to be reseated in the right place.

At the time I did not see the significance of why the ring orientation was important but now I see it forms a cadence/pedal position sensor it makes sense. The torque sensor, pedal position and cadence must all work together to apply the correct assistance and the position of the grey magnetic ring is key to it working properly.

This article makes interesting reading "E-BIKE TORQUE SENSOR TECHNOLOGY COMPARISON"
 
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Strindberg

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Hej Hej friends.

I asked this evening @PeterMayer from eMax Tuning to read this page # 8.

His answer is absolutely clear >> "We cannot remove the torque sensor without the large PCB, because the calibration data are stored there.
But anyway, if the sensor is removed with its small sensor PCB and the large motor PCB, it is imperative to redo its calibration.
This is also why Peter Collard of Performance Line Bearings has abandoned the repair of the STePS Shimano E8000
.
"

The same is true in Germany for ebike-doktor.de

Obviously we don't read anything about "the day after".
Nor on the crankset which swings from right to left and vice versa.

These silences seem to be answers, even failures of the engine rebuild.

---------------

From what we read in the German thread, Shimano seems to be more open to replacing motors after the warranty has expired,
unlike the dying BT-E8010 accumolators immediately the day after they hit the market.

So, I hope I have only to change the two crank bearings or that the DU fails before or a little bit after the warranty expires.
 
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joxelitor

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HI!
Recently after lots of researching (much free time during lockdown) I managed to service the bearings of my unfortunate DU-8000
Since then I have ridden 1200Km (745 mi) with no issues.

I did release both connectors for the flex PCB´s from the hall sensors to the rotaring PCB assenbly BUT i didn't disassemble the magnet, nor the metalic black sleeve from the pedal shaft.

This kind of sensor is a could be a magnetostricitive one (or a strain gauge one althoug for mi it´s strange how far is the magnet from the fiexed PCB)
In he case of magnetostricitive type, it relies on the magnetic properties of the axle under a magnetic field. When mechanical stress is applied to the axle, the field vector rotates, and both hall sensors mesasure the angle of rotation. If you remove the black metallic sleeve from de pedal shaft, or rotate the magnet problems could (and probably will) arise. Calibration is critical in this solution. Never put strong magnets near this motor and do not hammer on the pedal shaft, both to pullout or to press in the bearing.

There is no reason to touch the sensor assembly, bearings can be replaced leaving the sensor installed. I designed a set of bearing presses , and protective working stand for the torque sensor in order to keep the sensor protected from the bearing pullers. In fact it took me much longer the CAD modeling of all the 3 tramissión units for bearing press manufacturing, plus working stands, that the bearing replacement itself. I am quite happy, fortunately first, service, first success!!

Be careful with ESD too!! I see lot of pictures of pcbs laying around all over workshop tables, even plastic surfaces.... Not good!
 
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Bearing Man

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Hej Hej friends.

I asked this evening @PeterMayer from eMax Tuning to read this page # 8.

His answer is absolutely clear >> "We cannot remove the torque sensor without the large PCB, because the calibration data are stored there.
But anyway, if the sensor is removed with its small sensor PCB and the large motor PCB, it is imperative to redo its calibration.
This is also why Peter Collard of Performance Line Bearings has abandoned the repair of the STePS Shimano E8000
.
"

The same is true in Germany for ebike-doktor.de

Obviously we don't read anything about "the day after".
Nor on the crankset which swings from right to left and vice versa.

These silences seem to be answers, even failures of the engine rebuild.

---------------

From what we read in the German thread, Shimano seems to be more open to replacing motors after the warranty has expired,
unlike the dying BT-E8010 accumolators immediately the day after they hit the market.

So, I hope I have only to change the two crank bearings or that the DU fails before or a little bit after the warranty expires.
As Bearing Man, I am Peter Collard from Performance Line Bearings Just for the record, I did not "abandon the repair of Shimano motors" because of this reason. When we repair any motor, it works and we then guarantee our parts and work for 12 months. Because the failure rate of the Shimano motor with all sorts of software issues was so high (regardless if they had been worked on or not), meant the chance of a few failing at some point in the following 12 months of us having looked at it was relatively high. So occasionally we would get the call...Since you looked at my motor 8 months ago, it has packed up with fault code! And as we were the last people to touch the motor, we inevitably got the blame! If you have to buy a few new motors for people, that cost is unsustainable. The decision not to repair Shimano was also coupled with months of time spent in the early days, changing parts, testing, changing parts again, testing again! Got pretty sick of Shimano if I am honest. It was never a common motor compared to Bosch, Brose, Yamaha etc. so recouping any losses was just not possible and 3 years ago we just didn't have the resources to continue supporting this motor.
Sadly, that is why Peter Collard has abandoned the repair of the STePS Shimano E8000.
 

joxelitor

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Shimano Service is for DIY

For a professional service, it is a risky business. If you are responsible for any non-bearing electronic failure, the customer will still blame you unless you are forced to sign a liability waiver, assuming the motor has reached the end of its useful life and changing bearings is a last resort before throwing it away. Not very realistic and prone to bad reviews.
 
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Is it possible to change the bearings without the bearing press? Would be nice if you could give some infos or maybe sell them over etsy if its not too complicated. At one point we could make a how to so more people can change their bearings. But at first it should be clear that all the needed bearings and parts are available. Wasn't there an issue with some special bearings or grease? My motor now has almost 4000km and I think I'll need to service the bearings either this or nex off-season.
 
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Bearing Man

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We will be doing a video in the near future, unfortunately, all effort is on a new website first. All motors are possible to do without a press, just much easier and nicer for the bearings to use a press. Only bearing with issue at the moment is the clutch bearing, but not seen one fail yet tbh.
Have seen plastic gears burnt out so no comment on grease at this time from me.
 

Bearing Man

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Just bearings at this time. Sadly, because there is only one special bearing in this motor and all the other bearing sizes and types are clearly printed throughout this post, we don't really sell enough to make the kind of money it takes to put time and resources to this motor, so full tutorials, custom made parts etc. are someway down the line at the moment. But...Will try!
 

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My DIY motor service has now done about 30Km, not much but it seems to be working OK, no noises or error codes.
The motor had done 5723 km and showed no signs of problems but because of my experience from rebuilding a Bosch motor where water ingress was starting to cause serious damage I thought it could have its life extended by a service.
On dismantling, the motor was in pretty good shape and only showed signs of minor water ingress into the needle roller bearing area which was caused by water getting past the seal between the drive shaft and the chainring shaft (which was the same problem as the Bosch motor) so I have now packed bearing protection grease or Motorex behind the locking ring and large circlip which becomes slack on removal and requires a few taps with mallet to close it up again.
I replaced the needle roller bearings (as they were cheap) with Park Tool HPG-1 High Performance Grease, but none of the other bearings and sparingly applied MOLYKOTE PG-75 grease to the gears and Gadus Grease to the clutch which I had cleaned. I sealed the case with Hylomar Universal Blue.
1633861169221.png

Some information:
None of the 3 seals are readily available, they are made by NOK in Japan and probably specifically for Shimano. They have two delicate lips and no garter spring. The left side shaft seal has a part number AG1284E and there is a seal with the same footprint available from Simply Bearings but this has only a single lip. The drive side seal has a part number XG2008E. The seal in front of the needle bearings between the drive shaft and chainring shaft doesn't have a part number. My suggestion is to re-use the seals by carefully removing and cleaning, especially between the lips, then re-grease using Motorex Bike Grease.
The three wave spring washers which some people report as broken preload the bearing shafts, these also seem to be specials to Shimano and not readily available. The sizes are: 36.4x33.5x0.7, 25.5x21.5x0.6, 21.5x18.6x0.3 all have 3 waves.
 
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S13

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Well... i just had the same problem reoccurring as last time. After about 500km some of the grease on the metal to metal gears becomes overheated and solidifies. And then the motor starts making a weird humming sound. The grease turns brown to blackish in color.

Ive had this happen before when using Shimano's original white grease (but i figured i used too little of it with the first motor rebuild). But this time it happened with the Molykote PG75 as well (of which i used plenty...)

All other gears and clutches seem fine, its just that metal to metal gear thats the problem. Perhaps its just the weakest point of the motor, thermally.
Now i do have to mention that this problem always develops when doing huge climbs, like 1000m of elevation gain, and i basically run a full battery to flat in the span of an hour. Also, i have shorter cranks fitted (150mm) so i run at slightly higher cadence than one normally would, like 95-100 rpm. So you could consider this a worst case scenario.

Still i wonder if we are using the correct grease for the metal to metal gears. This time ive regreased the gears with the Shell Gadus S2 V100 2, the same used for greasing the clutches. Its what i have on hand here and it seems like a good candidate to try next.

Shell has this to say about Gadus S2 V100 2:
May be used under a wide range of operating conditions offering very significant advantages over conventional lithium greases at high temperature or in the presence of water.
Resists the formation of deposits caused by oxidation at high operating temperatures.
Looks good, eh!?
Well... its not designed to grease gears, but heck, lets give it a try!
Lets see how long it holds up this time! :)
 
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S13

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Also, should the Gadus S2 not work for the metal gears either, i will try a Molybdenum disulfide grease. I think the moly attaches nicely to the metal, and lowers friction, possibly keeping temperatures lower. Thus preventing the burning of the grease.

For all these greases (plastic, pg75, Gadus S2, moly) the max operating temperature is about the same, around 120 - 130 degrees Celcius.
The dripping point is around 180 degrees and the thickness consistency is approx 2 on the NLGI scale. So they should behave somewhat similar.
 
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joxelitor

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I used PG-75 on my rebuild
1200Km until now all seems to be ok. No increase on noise whatosever
I tend to use motor in ECO, BOOST is limted to 110% and all 3 modes have power limited to 250W instead of 500W as it´s configured by default

About the seals, I kept them in place, just cleaned and greased all of them. Dual lip seals are important, i don´t think that swapping for single lip seals would be a good idea.
In the drive side it´s clearly visible a groove in the shaft for the first exterior lip, second stays perfect.
That´s the weakest point of the motor.
As the motor is designed, in case of fail of seals and damage to the saft, we sould change all the assembly, seals, shaft, torque sensor, clutch, calibrate sensor.......:eek:
This motor had 4500Km when serviced and I never used a jet washer, just a garden hose, and still there is clear damage.
I will comment on my sealing solution soon, it´s still under test now.

1 - LEAP groove 1.jpg

2 - LEAP groove 2.jpg
 
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pollywaffle

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Hi, massive thanks to the contributors to this thread! Without it I definitely would not have been confident it was possible to pull that circuit board around the axle to be able to remove the axle.

Ages ago I heavily clipped my left pedal an went otb. It was so hard that it bent the crank and needed to be replaced. After that there was a clicking sound in the pedal stroke. Despite immediately suspecting a fouled bearing, I dribble some oil in around the cranks and kept riding another couple of thousand kms. The clicking went away and would return as a squeaking instead.

Anyways, found this thread and finally gathered the courage to pull the motor apart. The non drive side axel bearing feels fine and while I can feel no play in the drive side bearing, it isn't super smooth to turn.

The only bearings that have obvious play in them turns out to be the two in the first photo below. I think I know the answer but, having little experience in changing bearings, do you reckon I should just replace them all regardless of whether I can feel play in them?

bearing.jpg
 
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Strindberg

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Hej Hej friends.

Congrats for all your informations, explanations, experiences and practical tests !

I had the last two weeks an extensive email thread
with the technical service of the german Grease Factory >>> Ihr professioneller Partner für Spezialschmierstoffe | OKS Spezialschmierstoffe GmbH

After long investigations they think the best grease for our purpose would be the white grease OKS 270 .

This grease should do all what we need:
metal/metal,
plastic/metal,
non corosive for platsic, rubber and coated and non-coated PCBs,
high pressure,
heat,
non dispersive by "high" rotations and quickly done "stop-an-go" for the hill climbers...

Please see Data Sheet pdf in GB or in DE.

OKS 270 White Grease GB  .jpg



I still wish someone would do the same inspection as me with the crankset.
Now I also hear, in the middle of a silent forest, a little clack-clack exactly when the right side passes upper dead point while pedaling
 
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Bearing Man

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Not sure whats going on here, but numerous times throughout this post I have stated that we do not supply grease for this motor because we never worked out exactly what greases should be used. This motor is not like a Bosch, Yamaha, Impulse etc. and therefore we would not use our greases without long term testing, this was never done on the Shimano because we don't work on Shimano. Using Shell Gadus S2 V100 2, a grease designed to assist a clutch bearing to grip, would be a very bad thing to use on a metal gear! It may even contain ingredients that damage plastic gears!? You can't just call grease by half its name either. Shell Gadus S2 because someone will go and buy V100 3 or V220 2 etc. these are very different greases for very different jobs.
 
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