Jamsxr

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Has it dawned on anyone that some people might just want a lighter bike and are happy to pay for the new tech that comes along with it.
4kgs is a massive difference and those that think it isn’t obviously don’t know shit from chocolate.
Ride the bike first, do yourself a favour and give an honest opinion. All bikes have their purpose and those who they work for and those they don’t. At least Specialized are now giving many different people many different options.
I think that’s a great thing both for us and for competition/innovation.
I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.
 
Dec 6, 2019
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At the function yesterday there seemed to be SL's everywhere, I would hate to think how many have been distributed around the UK and how many Spesh has in built up form, ready for Demo rides. One thing for sure there's going to be a huge number at discounted prices in a years time that are ex demo bikes. The cost to Specialized must be in order of zillions if that's multiplied around the world.

First thoughts was that " what a pretty little bike ", really really looks right and against the normal Levo, looked a much more mature design and more like a mtb bike we are accustomed to. This next generation of Ebikes is going to be getting away from the ugly zone in aesthetics. From lots of design projects I know of, the old adage, if it looks right, it will normally be right. sort of looks the case here.

But where does it really fit in. I log my motor power input from my Ebike and average that 300 - 350 W over a ride ( obviously not downhill :) ), never really much more than that, sometimes we push 600W's in fun uphill romps ( and the factory bikes are still faster on full power, mmmm read the spec on the 250W limit thingee, its not an actual limit but a motor able to output reliably only 250W's ). I ride with non Ebikers and find that the motor needs about 30 - 40 W of energy just to over come the mechanical s of the gears and motor windings + the extra weight of the bike. To then be of any consequence to your riding, we need at least another 100 or so to be able to really feel much input, at the 150 W input, you know you have an Ebike and the fun begins.

So for Spesh to be saying that the 240W's of the SL is able to keep up with a Levo in Trail mode, it has to be pushing out way more than the 240W being quoted. Looking at the cutway engines of the Brose and the Spesh unit, we were surprised at just how beefy the motor windings and the overall height of the Stator, which were not unsimilar to the Brose's size, is saying hey this motor is capable of putting out way more than 240W's. Yes its much smaller in overall weight and size, but you only have to look at just how compact the internals are compared to the Brose, to say this is just better engineering giving the compactness, but the telling dimension is that the overall height of the motor itself is not much smaller than the Brose's.

In say a comparison to the motor diameter we run, its a bit bigger ( we can punch out 800W's fairly comfortably ) but remember a larger diameter will give a greater and more flatter torque curve, for us Ebiker's that's a real plus and overall height is just one parameter of motor power. If we then throw in the straight cut gears ( hence the louder noise ) of all alloy in a pretty chunky size, good size plastic counter gears, quite large bearing shafts, this motor in my opinion will chuck out a lot more than advertised ( remember though the manufacturers want reliability and low heat so they throttle the engines output back by limiting the windings total power input by software ) and with the FOC advances the current technology is evolving toward, this is going to be one pretty cool little motor.

So what am I saying, this new motor is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. I foresee a real possibility of this motor going down the TSDZ2 route of Free Ware that just transforms the output, someone will almost certainly reverse engineer the software and be offering an upgrade that will bring it into that 500W ( if its not already there, but being throttled back by software to fit the niche of that gap between Levo and analogue bikes ) and dare I say it, once the motor has been proved reliable for a couple of years, a 52volt version will be magicked into the next Levo and Kinevo design.

The other thing which fascinated me was answer given by Spesh that the actual battery size is being limited by the size of the Small frame. Bollocks the front down tube is of a size and length that you could get a 500WH battery in there no problem. This 300W internal battery is just to make sure that the bike sets its own market niche.

I have to say though, if you could buy a software upgrade to the motor to say 500W, a larger 500WH internal battery, what a winner you would have and you would blow virtually every other EBike manufacturer out of the market for a year or two until they catch up, but it would kill off immediately the Levo as we know it.
 
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Zimmerframe

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I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.
It's genius really ..

If it was a car .. there would be the 1.2 litre 4 cylinder version and then a year later the 2.0 turbo or 5.0 V8 version, which would be a bit heavier but with twice the power - for more money ..

Here we have the 2.0 turbo/5.0 V8 version first .. and then they bring out the amazing 1.2 low power, small fuel tank version as being the must have thing .. so it's going to be more expensive.

Amazing .. and I'm so dumb I'd like one too :)
 
Dec 6, 2019
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Do you not think though, having had the taste buds of the V8 we are just not going to now go back to the model T power zone.
 

Kiwi in Wales

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Has anyone put a set of 29 2.3 tyres on their Levo FF and gone for a ride?
Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
Why do you ask?
 

Zimmerframe

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Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
Why do you ask?
I'm guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3's might feel as nimble as an SL ?

I'm slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it's starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob's hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???
 

TheBikePilot

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I'm guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3's might feel as nimble as an SL ?

I'm slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it's starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob's hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???
I literally had a car park demo (which is enough for most to buy!!) Felt super responsive, light and like a fighter aircraft instead of an airliner..

I can’t comment on 2.3’s against a Levo first hand all I will say is think of the weight saving (4kg) as the difference between having 2 x 2 litre bottles of coke strapped to the bike disappearing..it has a profound affect on the handling and feel of the bike.
 
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Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
Why do you ask?
I'm guessing the theory behind the question : Does a levo with 2.3's might feel as nimble as an SL ?

I'm slightly curious if @TheBikePilot got to ride the SL during the demo session.

As a rider who was predominantly on the FF (it's starting to sound like a Ferrari for the dog owner) Levo, carrying a backpack full of camera gear and Rob's hair products, how did he find the SL in a more direct comparison ???
No it doesn't. The tyres are not the defining factor here. 1. Weight. 2. Rear end.
 

brash

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To further emphasis how incredible this new bike is in an engineering sense I'll give you this pearler.

My new 2020 "analogue" bike build, it's for shuttles/park riding pretty much but she will be pedalled every now and then.

17.6kg of unassisted land whale. I almost cried when I put it on the scale, for the big "S" to build an ebike this light, it put's things into perspective.

(please note, this is coil front and rear suspension, Cushcore front and rear, Steel spring and EXO+ Casing tyres)

ea7sqdv-jpg.25758


b5g9ybq-jpg.25759
 

Fivetones

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I literally had a car park demo (which is enough for most to buy!!) Felt super responsive, light and like a fighter aircraft instead of an airliner..

I can’t comment on 2.3’s against a Levo first hand all I will say is think of the weight saving (4kg) as the difference between having 2 x 2 litre bottles of coke strapped to the bike disappearing..it has a profound affect on the handling and feel of the bike.
There’s quite a few ebikes out there that are another 2kg on top of that too. Another 2 litre bottle.
 

Christian

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I ride my 13kg MTB more than my 22kg eBike so appreciate weight makes a difference, but after trying a few 19kg eBikes, it really doesn’t bother me much.

Anyway, I’m not knocking them for making what appears to be a great bike, just all the unnecessary hype that seems to go with it. They are a fantastic marketing company.
Well of course they do, what kind of a business would they be if they didn’t create hype. It’s up to us to be able to tell the shit from the chocolate. Research the hell out of it and work out if it’s for you or not.
So much negativity on here. It’s just sad people can’t just be happy that such a bike exists.
I’ve been dying to use this one and I feel it’s describes how I feel best

b83d93b0-fec2-48d9-ae0a-999984696bc5-jpeg.25761
 
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stiv674

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Specialized seem to be similar to Apple in that they make very good but overpriced products but still sell shit loads of them. Both have excellent marketing departments.

Although I will add that things are only worth what someone is willing to pay...
 

Fx1

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They could make this bike for half that price for 10% more weight.

Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make. The rest of the bike is just standard bike parts.
 

Doomanic

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Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make.
I wouldn't be so sure, small motor isn't necessarily cheaper than big motor, especially when small motor is a brand new design.
 

Fivetones

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They could make this bike for half that price for 10% more weight.

Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make. The rest of the bike is just standard bike parts.
And how do they pay for development costs? Software, hardware, testing, etc?

And do you have any real figures to back up your assertions? Small often means more expensive not less. It’s not a lump of metal you know.
 

TheBikePilot

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People will vote with their wallets. A Tesla has far fewer moving parts than an ICE car but shed loads of development and fewer economies of scale. It's always what someone is willing to pay, and people love their Tesla's. People also bloody love their Levo's, myself included.

Of course, there is Specialized tax, but there's also Santa Cruz and Yeti tax..It's expensive but if you want the lightest newest bike out there, get your card out else wait a year or so! Will I be running to buy one..No..I love full fat but fully appreciate the option and once I've had a decent ride of it maybe change my mind, but I doubt it..If I was buying again now it might be a different story.

The Founder's edition will sell out. Apparently one chap in Switzerland bought 10 Creo Founders Editions just to have in his garage for when friends came over as a talking point...Just like expensive art..
 

Zimmerframe

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Mahle's quite new to this game. I thought it was last year (but the brain is obviously failing)..

In late 2018 Mahle acquired e-bike motion (A Spanish company) to get them started in the e-bike world ..

Bike EU

At the time ebikemotion had about 30 staff, and from what I remember, only did hub motors .. so presumably they acquired someone else or set up some existing teams with the ebikemotion peeps to rapidly develop the mid motor ..... so, most likely the acquired option, improved it and sold it on to Spesh.

There's probably some poor bloke out there called Brian, sitting in his shed, £100 richer than he was, sworn to secrecy, knowing full well that he developed this nice little motor using his electric chainsaw motor and a few gears he had lying about, but didn't have the funds to bring it to market and no one would take him seriously because it wasn't 500w.
 

Fx1

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They could make this bike for half that price for 10% more weight.

Smaller motor and battery is far lower cost to make. The rest of the bike is just standard bike parts.
And how do they pay for development costs? Software, hardware, testing, etc?

And do you have any real figures to back up your assertions? Small often means more expensive not less. It’s not a lump of metal you know.
What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It's all made in china.

This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp. That has the most advanced lithium and motor tech in the world right now. It seats 4 people does 155mph and 0 to 62 in 3 seconds flat.

Let that sink in.
 
Feb 6, 2020
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What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It's all made in china.

This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp. That has the most advanced lithium and motor tech in the world right now. It seats 4 people does 155mph and 0 to 62 in 3 seconds flat.

Let that sink in.
Exactly, I could call China right now and have a thousand of these built by the end of the week for next to nothing.
 
Feb 6, 2020
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Is something stopping you?[/QUOTE]
Well yes, I couldn't find the number for China's fabled e bike factory that designs, tests, and builds specialized bikes for them so specialized can turn around and make 100% profit on poor suckers like me. Also, I was being sarcastic 😉.
 

Jamsxr

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Well of course they do, what kind of a business would they be if they didn’t create hype. It’s up to us to be able to tell the shit from the chocolate. Research the hell out of it and work out if it’s for you or not.
So much negativity on here. It’s just sad people can’t just be happy that such a bike exists.
I’ve been dying to use this one and I feel it’s describes how I feel best

View attachment 25761
How many times have you confused shit with chocolate..? 😬

I’ve said it looks like a great bike... Cleary not enough for some fanboys 😜
 

Fivetones

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What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It's all made in china.

This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp.
You have a slight point with the Tesla comparison (though you’re dreaming if you think a base model 3 is that quick). However your first comment is woefully naive.
 

Fx1

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... This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 ...
Tesla doesn't make ebikes.

... I could call China right now and have a thousand of these built by the end of the week for next to nothing.
Is something stopping you?
No he just makes space rockets for fun instead. I'd say making a bike would be beneath him. It would be rather embarrassing for him to brag about making a light bike and then charge 12 grand for someone to buy it.

Whilst he doesnt make ebikes he does make the cells that make this bike possible though and that bit was way harder than anything that went into this bike.

I have owned SWorks and other specialized bikes and have first hand experience with their cost cutting and bait and switch tactics on spec. Left a very bitter taste in my mouth.

Dont get me started on the adverts called reviews. Barely a bad word gets said for fear of losing marketing money's.
 

Fx1

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What development cost? All the parts are made by someone else. The battery literally has less cells and they are directly related to cell price x volume. Electric motors in bikes are neither small nor advanced in any way. It's all made in china.

This bike costs a third of the price of a Tesla model 3 when you strip out all the road tax and discount off rrp.
You have a slight point with the Tesla comparison (though you’re dreaming if you think a base model 3 is that quick). However your first comment is woefully naive.
The base model can be unlocked via software to ludacris mode. Hardware is no different.

I think we are all guilty of selling to ourselves that these prices are justified somehow. At best 3 components of that bike are not off the shelf. The frame, The motor and the battery.

The motor is just a different form factor. It doesnt contain anything new. It's not the same power and half the size. Even if it was 50% more expensive it would not justify the price.

The battery is still made up from AA looking cells made in some factory by the billion. Instead of 30 it might have 20 held in a plastic box with a power management microchip that is no different than anyone elses. Those same cells run my lawn mower at 7.5ah in 56v for 420wh. Costs £240 rrp.

The rest of the bike is from the parts bin just like the rest of the range.

This bike is the holy grail for specialized. Not only does it convince everyone that less is more in terms of performance it also means less cost to manufacture and more profit with higher rrp.

It would be cheaper and more effective to go on a diet.
 

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