Christian

Well-known member
Subscriber
Jan 1, 2019
764
773
93
40
Melbourne australia
Ride
Specialized Kenevo
How many times have you confused shit with chocolate..? 😬
Haha, very rarely mate but I spend a lot of time researching things. I like to make informed decisions rather than just jump on the bandwagon as most do. I also have a very positive outlook to life and try not focus on the negatives.
I ride with many different ebikes and I see no labels just happy faces. That’s what’s important to me.
 

Fivetones

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Feb 11, 2019
560
347
193
Cheshire
The base model can be unlocked via software to ludacris mode. Hardware is no different.

I think we are all guilty of selling to ourselves that these prices are justified somehow. At best 3 components of that bike are not off the shelf. The frame, The motor and the battery.

The motor is just a different form factor. It doesnt contain anything new. It's not the same power and half the size. Even if it was 50% more expensive it would not justify the price.

The battery is still made up from AA looking cells made in some factory by the billion. Instead of 30 it might have 20 held in a plastic box with a power management microchip that is no different than anyone elses. Those same cells run my lawn mower at 7.5ah in 56v for 420wh. Costs £240 rrp.

The rest of the bike is from the parts bin just like the rest of the range.

This bike is the holy grail for specialized. Not only does it convince everyone that less is more in terms of performance it also means less cost to manufacture and more profit with higher rrp.

It would be cheaper and more effective to go on a diet.
I’m not going to answer every point but the quick Teslas have two motors. Their batteries are ‘just‘ Panasonic and LG Chem - and importantly volumes are in a completely different league to ebikes. I would also counter that Tesla charge Audi prices for cheap Chrysler-level built cars ;)

However despite you over blowing the points you make I don’t necessarily disagree with your more general point and I’m certainly not a Specialized cheerleader.

What you miss though is that there are plenty of people around who are willing to pay a premium for what they perceive to be a nicely designed, packaged, presented, integrated, conceptualised and supported product. There are trillion dollar companies out there based on this premise after all.
 

Fx1

Active member
Feb 6, 2020
104
47
28
GB
The base model can be unlocked via software to ludacris mode. Hardware is no different.

I think we are all guilty of selling to ourselves that these prices are justified somehow. At best 3 components of that bike are not off the shelf. The frame, The motor and the battery.

The motor is just a different form factor. It doesnt contain anything new. It's not the same power and half the size. Even if it was 50% more expensive it would not justify the price.

The battery is still made up from AA looking cells made in some factory by the billion. Instead of 30 it might have 20 held in a plastic box with a power management microchip that is no different than anyone elses. Those same cells run my lawn mower at 7.5ah in 56v for 420wh. Costs £240 rrp.

The rest of the bike is from the parts bin just like the rest of the range.

This bike is the holy grail for specialized. Not only does it convince everyone that less is more in terms of performance it also means less cost to manufacture and more profit with higher rrp.

It would be cheaper and more effective to go on a diet.
I’m not going to answer every point but the quick Teslas have two motors. Their batteries are ‘just‘ Panasonic and LG Chem - and importantly volumes are in a completely different league to ebikes. I would also counter that Tesla charge Audi prices for cheap Chrysler-level built cars ;)

However despite you over blowing the points you make I don’t necessarily disagree with your more general point and I’m certainly not a Specialized cheerleader.

What you miss though is that there are plenty of people around who are willing to pay a premium for what they perceive to be a nicely designed, packaged, presented, integrated, conceptualised and supported product. There are trillion dollar companies out there based on this premise after all.
I agree. I also think the Tesla is a ripoff in it's own right. This was kind of also my point.

I'd argue I was one of those people who were willing to pay for specialized package and I did many times. Looking at the resale values now though and current pricing I'm at a loss as to what they justify it with. Looking back I should have just kept my alu stumpjumper. Moving to an ebike is going to sting the pocket. But I just hate riding up hills.

The best thing I could do with my s works right now is drive over it with the car. It's worth far more as an insured wreck than it is on ebay.
 

Fivetones

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Feb 11, 2019
560
347
193
Cheshire
Point taken.

These are very expensive toys for sure. However, surely value is not solely monetary? The S-Works is definitely worth more as a bike you can ride up hill and down dale for many incredible rides and experiences - a new model hadn’t changed that.

We all get wrapped up in feeds and speeds but these are just tools, they are not the goal. Riding is that goal.
 
Sep 24, 2018
18
11
3
Melbourne
Ride
Levo alloy
Yes, I have a 2.35 Magic Mary on the front with 27-29psi and a 2.4 Eddy Current with 27-29 psi on the back. Rider weight fully kitted up is 75kgs.
Why do you ask?
Yes, trying to gauge the tyre effect... I know transitioning between 6Fatty Stumpy and 29x2.3 Camber tyres were noticeabe. I no longer have anything to compare to as the Levo replaced all my bikes.
 

jemen

E*POWAH Elite
Jun 1, 2018
238
228
203
Austria
www.sportler.at
Ride
LEVO SL Carbon Exp.
Has anyone put a set of 29 2.3 tyres on their Levo FF and gone for a ride?
I ride my Levo with Michelin Wild Enduro tires in 2.4, they are smaller than the Specialized in 2.3. Works very well much more agile. But when it comes the pure agility you need the lighter frame from the SL.
 

miPbiP

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
572
435
73
Surrey Hills.
Ride
None
@Spesh - if you're reading:

I'm a trail rider and I've a 6 month old Levo. It's great fun to ride, my only criticism is it's a bit of a tank.

I reckon an SL would be right up my street. I could roll my Levo and my bio trail bike into one. I don't need a winch, am happy to pedal. And I almost never flatten the 500Wh battery.

What's stopping me taking the plunge? It's a combination of the hefty price ticket (I can afford it on paper, but it's still a big number!) with the relatively short warranty on the e parts.

2 years passes very very fast. Resale value then is a huge unknown, on a bike I may be spending seven and a half big ones on. it just doesn't add up.

I'd think about some sort of extended warranty option (see Apple's AppleCare) or, as was suggested at the event, some kind of trade in/approved used scheme. Would probably go a long way to snagging more customers like me and keeping us in the fold.

Hope that helps, for now I think I'm gonna sit SL out, and keep my eyes out for alternatives in this format. So you may loose me.

All you new SL owners: I'm a tad envious and wish you years of happy riding!

ps I moved this post here from another thread for better context.
 

Rob Hancill

Administrator
Staff member
Subscriber
Jan 14, 2018
3,095
3,780
363
Surrey, UK
Ride
Levo Expert
I'd think about some sort of extended warranty option (see Apple's AppleCare) or, as was suggested at the event, some kind of trade in/approved used scheme. Would probably go a long way to snagging more customers like me and keeping us in the fold.
+1 for this
 

Fx1

Active member
Feb 6, 2020
104
47
28
GB
Sadly their whole business model is planned obsolescence. A 5 year old enduro works as well as the day you bought it. A 5 year old ebike has much less chance of being functional.

I fully expect to one day being in small claims court against a dealer or manufacturer arguing that it was never built to last a reasonable time.

They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.
 

ImSundee

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2020
119
76
58
Oxford
Ride
Berry Levo SL
They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.
Find me a market where that isn't the case? Everywhere batteries are a consumable. We are lucky with the warranty they give.

I think the bigger thing is Specialized battery prices are insanity. The cost to produce a battery to that spec is £100 + controller costs. I'd really like to see battery costs drop to about £300-400 and then I'm be mega happy.

I know i'll be making my own when mine dies as I have the means and knowledge to do so - I've made ebike packs before for not so legal bikes that pull alot more amps.
 

p3eps

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2019
260
257
93
Scotland
Sadly their whole business model is planned obsolescence. A 5 year old enduro works as well as the day you bought it. A 5 year old ebike has much less chance of being functional.

I fully expect to one day being in small claims court against a dealer or manufacturer arguing that it was never built to last a reasonable time.

They already consider the battery as a consumable item which is totally absurd. They just know that lithium batteries have a horrible failure rate in high draw applications. Used ebikes with no warranty might be worthless.
Yes and no...
The price of a regular bike seems to drop through the floor after you've owned it for a couple of years. I'd probably be lucky to get £2000 for my mint 2017 Stumpjumper Expert with almost £3000 upgrades on it (overall cost ~£7000). I'd have to find the right buyer who was specifically looking for that model / components.

A £7500 eMTB with a knackered motor or battery is only potentially £1000 (guess on the cost of a motor) away from being a fully functioning bike. In 3 years time, that Specialized motor will probably be on it's 3rd version, and the Gen1 will be available at a lower cost.

You could argue the same about your phone. You pay £1200 for a new iPhone on launch day. In 3 years time, Mazuma will probably give you £300 for it!
 

levity

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Founding Member
Feb 15, 2018
208
254
173
SoCal
It’s sad to see this thread evolve from one that started out discussing interesting features of a new bicycle to one dominated by tedious and repetitive complaining about prices, business models, marketing, resale value, etc.

Rather than hijacking this thread why not start another thread entitled -

“Whinefest - My First World Problems with E-bikes and the E-bike Industry”
 
Dec 20, 2018
39
52
18
USA
Ride
Turbo Levo comp carb
I have some more ride observations but first.
A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.
-Secondly people are focusing a lot on weight as an abstract number. I think spec has been able to focus the weight much lower in the bike. With the tightening up of the geometry and chain stays this feels nothing like the original levo. The levo feels like a DH bike to me now (especially with the coil shock I added), but that's what I want when I ride it, a shuttle bike. The nimbleness of this bike cannot be understated.
-Finally I’m glad the range extender was delayed I got to ride the bike without it and am impressed with the range. If I had to guess I think the 320 wh offers what you’d get from maybe a 440wh battery on the levo if it existed. But since you can turn the SL off on the flats and not feel bogged down there are so many ways you can extend your range if you are on a long adventure.
 

p3eps

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2019
260
257
93
Scotland
I have some more ride observations but first.
A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.
Which crank set did you get? I'm just away to go to the store and ask to exchange my Trek Rail. The reality is that the store are going to make me use up the value of the Rail - so I'm going to have to buy some upgrades. The cranks were one thing on my list!
 

Paul Mac

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Jul 9, 2018
393
286
173
Uk
Ride
Levo
I agree. I also think the Tesla is a ripoff in it's own right. This was kind of also my point.

I'd argue I was one of those people who were willing to pay for specialized package and I did many times. Looking at the resale values now though and current pricing I'm at a loss as to what they justify it with. Looking back I should have just kept my alu stumpjumper. Moving to an ebike is going to sting the pocket. But I just hate riding up hills.

The best thing I could do with my s works right now is drive over it with the car. It's worth far more as an insured wreck than it is on ebay.
A friend of mine only managed to sell his year old S works Levo for £4200.
That's a loss of £5800 for 1 years riding.
Say he did 100 rides, that's £58 per ride, not including tyres,brakes etc 😱
 

miPbiP

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
572
435
73
Surrey Hills.
Ride
None
It’s sad to see this thread evolve from one that started out discussing interesting features of a new bicycle to one dominated by tedious and repetitive complaining about prices, business models, marketing, resale value, etc.

Rather than hijacking this thread why not start another thread entitled -

“Whinefest - My First World Problems with E-bikes and the E-bike Industry”
it's not a hijack, most of us love the idea of the bike. it's OK to talk about why we may not buy one. might help someone eh?
 
Dec 20, 2018
39
52
18
USA
Ride
Turbo Levo comp carb
Which crank set did you get? I'm just away to go to the store and ask to exchange my Trek Rail. The reality is that the store are going to make me use up the value of the Rail - so I'm going to have to buy some upgrades. The cranks were one thing on my list!
I just got the praxis carbon that come on the sworks since I didn’t want to spend a bunch of time figuring out compatibility. I’m skeptical of the savings but looking at the weights online it seems right. Almost like the Al are intentionally heavy.
 

levity

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Founding Member
Feb 15, 2018
208
254
173
SoCal
... The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks...
Not sure where you're getting your numbers. The allow crank arms do not even weight 1.5 lb total!

Praxis lists the alloy crank arms at 485g (1.07 lb.) and the carbon crank arms at 375g.
Thats a 110g difference (about a Big Mac quarter pounder ;)).
 

Fx1

Active member
Feb 6, 2020
104
47
28
GB
I've lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I'm now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.
 

Fivetones

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Feb 11, 2019
560
347
193
Cheshire
I've lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I'm now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.
That’s like saying ‘I don’t need this sledgehammer, I’m a big fella so this toffee hammer will do’. 😁

I think if you could stand to lose 6kg and be healthy then you’re probably big enough to throw a heavier bike around. Again, generalising doesn’t work here either.
 

Fx1

Active member
Feb 6, 2020
104
47
28
GB
I've lost 6kg since christmas. Does that mean I'm now a turbo levo SL s works?? Saved myself about 7 grand.
That’s like saying ‘I don’t need this sledgehammer, I’m a big fella so this toffee hammer will do’.

I think if you could stand to lose 6kg and be healthy then you’re probably big enough to throw a heavier bike around. Again, generalising doesn’t work here either.
Yeh lol.

I did notice that getting up those hills was much easier though when closer to 70kg than 80kg.
 
Feb 5, 2020
13
11
3
Chelmsford
Ride
Mondraker e crafty
Exciting times... Looks a great bike, but Im hoping in 2 to 3 years there will be a new wave of full power ebikes with smaller batteries, motors and pretty looks at 40ish pounds...
 

etoni

Active member
Sep 3, 2018
76
104
43
Thun Switzerland
Ride
specialized
I have some more ride observations but first.
A few sneaky weight savings I’ve found. The praxis AL cranks on the expert are a full 1.5lbs more than the carbon cranks on the sworks. Considering they both have carbon rims this almost completely accounts for the weight savings. I added carbon bars and cranks are ordered. I also went 165 over 170 just for clearance reasons.
-Secondly people are focusing a lot on weight as an abstract number. I think spec has been able to focus the weight much lower in the bike. With the tightening up of the geometry and chain stays this feels nothing like the original levo. The levo feels like a DH bike to me now (especially with the coil shock I added), but that's what I want when I ride it, a shuttle bike. The nimbleness of this bike cannot be understated.
-Finally I’m glad the range extender was delayed I got to ride the bike without it and am impressed with the range. If I had to guess I think the 320 wh offers what you’d get from maybe a 440wh battery on the levo if it existed. But since you can turn the SL off on the flats and not feel bogged down there are so many ways you can extend your range if you are on a long adventure.
or battery out and ride with the 160wh and a spare in the backpack!
 

Latest threads

Become a Patron!

Trending