Orbea Rise to coil or not to coil?


carlbiker

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New MTEAM rise is inbound and after watching a few videos it seems coils would suit my style of riding more than air, air being better for a more responsive and eventful ride if you’re a bunny rabbit, like to do big drops vs being more planted and having more traction.

mine comes with the dpx2, I’ve listed some options down below also.

Matt Swenson who tests suspension on his profile has a rise and he swears by coils to both front and rear which maybe contradicts what I’ve read about the rider type but he advises PUSH is the safe bet to work with. The Fox coil sounds like it should be avoided with what he said in some of his comments you can read.

Fox dpx2 421g (air)

EXT Storia v3 700g
Fox dhx2 762g
Ohlin TTX22M 887g
PUSH elevensix 915g

I know someone who’s ordered EXT coil and a fork. Same chap also said he had read here that the EXT may not work well with a fox fork but he can’t remember where he saw this.

Seems the EXT is the best shock from what I’ve read but another wiser than me chap also said

Coils can be way harder to setup for each rider/bike - unless you have a huge pile of coils to keep swapping out. will weigh more too - and the rise uses a shock extender for the linkage, so unless you get the right coil, you'll be putting loads of strain on the bottom coil mount and will probably snap it.
Spending money can be fun but wasting it’s another thing altogether ?

There is also the warranty to consider on any impacts this may have, probably safe with the Fox coil but reports are it’s not very durable
 
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Zimmerframe

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You want a parallel twin shock system so you can run them both - win win ...

Or an on board compresser and and air shock.

Have you considered a hard tail conversion kit with adjustable geometry/bb height !
 
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Tonybro

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The bike is brand-new to you....how about you just spend a lot of time riding the hell out of it, and then after some month MAYBE consider a different shock....
That's my strategy with the new Rise. Just trying to get suspension dialled in. Rear seems to be close, front seems to be hard so will be softening it off... I'm more XC with gnarly bits than a DH monster...
 
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RickBullotta

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That's my strategy with the new Rise. Just trying to get suspension dialled in. Rear seems to be close, front seems to be hard so will be softening it off... I'm more XC with gnarly bits than a DH monster...
If it's the Factory 36, then start with LSC and HSC wide open and 20% sag.
 
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carlbiker

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The bike is brand-new to you....how about you just spend a lot of time riding the hell out of it, and then after some month MAYBE consider a different shock....
I’ve not seen a report from anyone saying the air over the coil but plenty the other way around especially if your not one for going full send, you gain better traction and support on the lower end but get less on the top it seems, that’s fine by me, it looks bad ass also.

If that’s true why settle for something temporary? I’d think yeah it’s decent, coming from a ShockWiz dialled in 35 gold (lol) ofc but still buy the coil anyway later down the line inevitably at a -£150 penalty.

That's my strategy with the new Rise. Just trying to get suspension dialled in. Rear seems to be close, front seems to be hard so will be softening it off... I'm more XC with gnarly bits than a DH monster...
I felt it was a little stiff too but way better than my old one
 
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carlbiker

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Upto now I’ve avoided geometry stuff as it’s abit of a rabbit hole, easy I’m sure like most things when you know….

So after a lot of deliberation I’d started steering towards the Ext Storia v3, gave them a call and they said in their tests it hadn’t paired well with the fox 36 150 as it always had to run fully open due to the Ext having way more going on (bigger reservoirs etc) and that the travel would need to be 160 which is easy but then that would adjust the head angle, which I’m after but with that adjustment there might be more peddle strikes and the bike probably needs lifting more than lowering ?

I’m sure there’s a simple fix but it’s like trying to stick a square peg down a round hole on this thing!

Should have bought the Hydra! ?
 

Dirtnvert

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I prefer coil hands down. E storia would be sweet. Even for jumpy trails and/or bike park i prefer coil. Braking bumps happen. Coil eats them up and allows you to relax going into a jump. Better climbing and descending traction with coil too. Emtb's are made for coils. I think they all should have them. Have one coil getting rebuilt atm and i have my air shock on it. Cant wait to get the coil back. Coil on my decoy is a SAR non progressive because the decoy linkage is already progressive. The linear meta am 29 has the "race only springs" progressive coil on it
 
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carlbiker

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I prefer coil hands down. E storia would be sweet. Even for jumpy trails and/or bike park i prefer coil. Braking bumps happen. Coil eats them up and allows you to relax going into a jump. Better climbing and descending traction with coil too. Emtb's are made for coils. I think they all should have them. Have one coil getting rebuilt atm and i have my air shock on it. Cant wait to get the coil back. Coil on my decoy is a SAR non progressive because the decoy linkage is already progressive. The linear meta am 29 has the "race only springs" progressive coil on it
For the rise im looking at seems elevensix may be the most compatible but bloomin expensive!
 
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kimochi

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Following. Wonder if coil is necessary for the rear. I have an acs3 lyrik and debating whether I should change my stock dps to either ohlin's coil/ jade x or something like topaz air.
 

Dirtnvert

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For the rise im looking at seems elevensix may be the most compatible but bloomin expensive!
Never ridden one. Friends splurged on them. I bet theyre great. New one has the hydraulic bottom out similar to the ext i think.
I ave a cane creek dbl barrel and a dvo jade. Cane creek has been good to me. I think it has too much range of adjustment but after its disled its pretty good. I prefered the jade but now its in for a service needing a new shaft , bushing and seals. Jury is still out on that one. Jade x might make more sense. Suspension specislists all rave about the ext. Im curious about a rock shox with a the vorsprung upgrade. He's a bit of a wizard and tgat could make the rock shox a reasonable option. Manitou might be worth a look as well. Theyve made them ez to home service and i hear good things there too. They seem to be putting a bit of developement into their new stuff. Still under tge radar but a bunch of good reports on both their forks and shocks and a good price. They own hayes and the hayes dominion might be the best brake atm. I aim to try some of their stuff soon. I think it still gets forgotten. Hard to get the market share back after it dropped off a bit
 
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carlbiker

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Rise. Prefer coil over air for fork as it is easier to get dialed once you got the correct spring rate. Not sure how coil will benefit the rear shock as much as it does for the fork though.
Did you have any concerns over the fox warranty as the coil invalidates it I believe?
 

carlbiker

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Never ridden one. Friends splurged on them. I bet theyre great. New one has the hydraulic bottom out similar to the ext i think.
I ave a cane creek dbl barrel and a dvo jade. Cane creek has been good to me. I think it has too much range of adjustment but after its disled its pretty good. I prefered the jade but now its in for a service needing a new shaft , bushing and seals. Jury is still out on that one. Jade x might make more sense. Suspension specislists all rave about the ext. Im curious about a rock shox with a the vorsprung upgrade. He's a bit of a wizard and tgat could make the rock shox a reasonable option. Manitou might be worth a look as well. Theyve made them ez to home service and i hear good things there too. They seem to be putting a bit of developement into their new stuff. Still under tge radar but a bunch of good reports on both their forks and shocks and a good price. They own hayes and the hayes dominion might be the best brake atm. I aim to try some of their stuff soon. I think it still gets forgotten. Hard to get the market share back after it dropped off a bit
Ever check the Ohlins? I’ve seen a few Rises with these on now with good reports back, mullet seems to be happening when coils are added also so I’ve no idea what the height or the bottom bracket would be when it’s low already at 336m, curiously I’ve asked about 3 guys this same question and could never get an answer, can’t imagine any lower
 

Dirtnvert

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Ever check the Ohlins? I’ve seen a few Rises with these on now with good reports back, mullet seems to be happening when coils are added also so I’ve no idea what the height or the bottom bracket would be when it’s low already at 336m, curiously I’ve asked about 3 guys this same question and could never get an answer, can’t imagine any lower
I havent ridden ohlins. I'd likd to though.
Id imagine the bb height could be dealt with fairly ez. Ive mulleted my meta am 29. Added 10mm travel to the fork and one offset bushing, in the reversed/steepening position, and bb is close to stock. Neither of my shock pivots rotate when the shock is cycled so i could put an offset bushing in either without them spinning when the shock cycles. Some bukes the pivot at the linkage can rotate an offset bushing. The pivot on the frame usually doesnt move much though. If my memory serves me i thought the coil/mx setup on the rise has a longer eye to eye and stroke to give it more travel and uses one or two offseyt bushings and a longer stroke fork. Bb ends up a touch higher but that accomodates the longer travel it would have. Ez swap to put the 9er rear wheel with the stock air shock on for long light days and swap the 27.5 rear wheel on(especially if it has a cassette and rotor) and the coill shock with the offset bushings for daily rips and park days. Thats whayt i do with my meta. 2 shock bolts and one rear axle and done
 
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KenX

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I prefer coil hands down. E storia would be sweet. Even for jumpy trails and/or bike park i prefer coil. Braking bumps happen. Coil eats them up and allows you to relax going into a jump. Better climbing and descending traction with coil too. Emtb's are made for coils. I think they all should have them. Have one coil getting rebuilt atm and i have my air shock on it. Cant wait to get the coil back. Coil on my decoy is a SAR non progressive because the decoy linkage is already progressive. The linear meta am 29 has the "race only springs" progressive coil on it
Totally agree, my Decoy (not a Rise, I know!) was transformed firstly with a coil shock (Marzocchi Bomber) and again with a Vorsprung Smashpot coil fork conversion, so much more supple everywhere, using all the travel and still plenty of support (y)
 

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The DPS on my Wild FS was chattery as hell and back end was always loose. coil just sorts all that out, but it's heavier.
I think you should at least try the M team Rise as it's sold before you rush out and buy a coil. I had mid-high end air shocks on all my bikes before I got a heavy e bike and thought they were fine
 
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Dirtnvert

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Totally agree, my Decoy (not a Rise, I know!) was transformed firstly with a coil shock (Marzocchi Bomber) and again with a Vorsprung Smashpot coil fork conversion, so much more supple everywhere, using all the travel and still plenty of support (y)
With assist why not ? Lots of seated pedaling or seated climbing and coil is so supple it doesnt get hung up on roots or rocks near as ez.
The pre 07 marzocchi 888 is still a desirable fork. A lot of that was because it was coil. The italian years they lasted forever and ate up everything. They should bring it back and make an E888mx
 

Doomanic

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o after a lot of deliberation I’d started steering towards the Ext Storia v3, gave them a call and they said in their tests it hadn’t paired well with the fox 36 150 as it always had to run fully open due to the Ext having way more going on (bigger reservoirs etc) and that the travel would need to be 160 which is easy but then that would adjust the head angle, which I’m after but with that adjustment there might be more peddle strikes and the bike probably needs lifting more than lowering ?
Err what?

Going to a 160 fork from a 150 will raise the front end, not lower it.
 

Shjay

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Not sure what rear shock to run yet, running Mezzer pro on front of my M20
 

Doomanic

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If you increase the travel on your fork from 150mm to 160mm it lifts the front of the bike, slackening the head angle and raising the bottom bracket because the fork is 10mm longer.
 
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carlbiker

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Raises the bb about 3mm. Add a -1 degree works headset to that and it will slacken further and lower the bb a touch
Interesting.

I fancy the coil switch but I don’t want to bugger up the delicately designed geometry by making a stupid adjustment somewhere.

from what I gather if the fork goes to 160 this increases the BB but slackens the head angle. This then can be fixed using an offset bush on the rear, maybe two to slacken things further if wanting to hit around 64 ish. A 2.6 tyre will also slacken by 0.5.

A common theme is people seem to be going to 160 but some use the stock size of 210x55 or 216x63 making it 160/160 but have to put a mullet on there also, which in some ways could be nice as it might offset the weight difference of the coil
 

Dirtnvert

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Interesting.

I fancy the coil switch but I don’t want to bugger up the delicately designed geometry by making a stupid adjustment somewhere.

from what I gather if the fork goes to 160 this increases the BB but slackens the head angle. This then can be fixed using an offset bush on the rear, maybe two to slacken things further if wanting to hit around 64 ish. A 2.6 tyre will also slacken by 0.5.

A common theme is people seem to be going to 160 but some use the stock size of 210x55 or 216x63 making it 160/160 but have to put a mullet on there also, which in some ways could be nice as it might offset the weight difference of the coil
Ya i get ya. Beauty bike as is. If the geo and travel and wheelsize suits your tdails theres no need to chainge. Just have a same length coil shock to swap in there if you want.
.5 degree change for a 2.6 tire sounds like someone has rounded up to the half degree. 10mm extra travel on a fork only slackens the head and seat angle .4 degrees. Pretty small geo tweak, as well as the 3mm gain in bb height , if someone rhought 160 would be useful.
Offset bushings will vary in adjustment they offer. If your bike shock eyelet bolt is a thicker bolt(maybe 8mm bolt) the available material on the bushing to offset is less because the bushing wall thickness is thinner to make room for the bigger bolt. My commencal with 10mm more fprl travel and one reversed offset bushing(8mm bolt) puts the bb close to stock with it mulleted. The 27.5 rear wheel lowers the bb more than the extra 10mm on the fork raises the bb so the reversed offset bushing brings the bb back to stock. Angles are less than a degree slacker with all the adjustments. Minor tweaks that work for me here. The bike goes everywhere so i need a mullet for steeps or drops but i throw on the 9er rear wheel for xc spins and then further with the air shock for long alpine rides