Nicolai EBOXX or R&M or other- E14 Rohloff reviews?

[DrStupid]

Looking at emtbs with rohloffs, that are turn key, I see only the Nicolai and the Riese and Muller.

I can't find any comprehensive reviews of these bikes.

I am curious how the E14 rohloff is actually working?

Anybody here have a review or personal experience?

Are there other rohloff turnkey solutions in the enduro or all mountian ebike categories?

The R&M shows a chainstay of over 500mm! It must be a tank on the trail.

 

[R120]

There is a member who has a Levo with a Rohlhoff, I believe he is the Australian distributor for them, and has carried out several conversions - I know its not an off the shelf solution but this thread may give you some feedback as to the riding experience:

Rohloff hub - EMTB Forums

 

[wepn]

There is this - if you want to see it in closeup through the shifts it's at 11:40.
E-14 for Specialized anyone?

 

[DrStupid]

There is a member who has a Levo with a Rohlhoff, I believe he is the Australian distributor for them, and has carried out several conversions - I know its not an off the shelf solution but this thread may give you some feedback as to the riding experience:

Rohloff hub - EMTB Forums

Thanks, I did see the post concerning his bike, and I am nearly sold on the functionality of the A12 hub. The problem is the process of getting one fitted.

See The Monkey Lab: Tech Talk: Rohloff's "Through-Axle" A12 Hubs

My effort to install one on my Trance stalled after I downloaded the 50 page instruction manual that walks you through the process of submitting your frame for approval. Ughh!

 

[CjP]

There is this - if you want to see it in closeup through the shifts it's at 11:40.
E-14 for Specialized anyone?

Omg that’s so awesome! Why can’t I have this now!

 

[wepn]

Omg that’s so awesome! Why can’t I have this now!

Well I think the good news is that most likely a lot of the difficult work is already done because it isn’t very different to what already works well with the Bosch.

A test to see if Christian’s incontinence is all better now

DC/DC-CAN Converter Interface to the Brose, connector like a 6-Pol Hirose cable & some CAN kicking. Easy right?

 

[CjP]

Well I think the good news is that most likely a lot of the difficult work is already done because it isn’t very different to what already works well with the Bosch.

A test to see if Christian’s incontinence is all better now

DC/DC-CAN Converter Interface to the Brose, connector like a 6-Pol Hirose cable & some CAN kicking. Easy right?

Sounds easy enough.
I may have secured a Motec programmer to try hack the system. Problem is I may need a running bike to do it so may have to buy that Nicolai after all ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

What's are the advantages over the electronic version over the manual one ? (and will this lead to a thread about gear cheating ? )

 

[wepn]

Sounds easy enough.
I may have secured a Motec programmer to try hack the system. Problem is I may need a running bike to do it so may have to buy that Nicolai after all ?

Sounds fantastic & you're in one of the best places in the world to find available talented people looking for new challenges.

A Nicolai, a dynamometer & a CAN engineer would be a pretty good place to start on the CANopen network assuming your code guru is aware of the likely security measures in the bootloader that could make it interesting. Sometimes 3rd party is way better than OEM.

What's are the advantages over the electronic version over the manual one ? (and will this lead to a thread about gear cheating ? )

Fast, smooth shifts using HSYNC which pauses power for 200 milliseconds. My mechanical shifter is definitely becoming much easier & smoother than when brand new but E-14 will be the best. I have a Merida with Di2 e-shift Alfine hub & it is excellent as a commuter. E-14 will be incredible for emtb.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Fast, smooth shifts using HSYNC which pauses power for 200 milliseconds. My mechanical shifter is definitely becoming much easier & smoother than when brand new but E-14 will be the best. I have a Merida with Di2 e-shift Alfine hub & it is excellent as a commuter. E-14 will be incredible for emtb.

So the main advantage is the momentary power cut. I wonder if this will improve over time to be more advanced to slowly (relatively) reduce power and slowly (again, relatively) increase power once it detects a completed shift (or knows the exact time it should take). Just cutting the power may not create the perfect "zero" load. It would probably take some time to work out the correct curves based on gear/speed, but might ultimately lead to even smoother changes and less load on the rohloff and the rest of the transmission.

Hasn't anyone tried messing with the nuvinci hubs ? they're infinite, so there should be no need to interrupt the power to change your ratio. I saw one hugely reduced on amazon.com several months back and was almost tempted ..

For the Rohloff, I know @Christian is at risk of permanent physical and psychological damage if he doesn't get one soon ... could he buy an e14 and relevant switcheroo's and install it as it is with it powered from the brose lighting ports ? It wouldn't have the HSYNC enabled, but at least he'd have that as a nice upgrade to look forward too ?

Then he could look at parallel solutions whilst he's waiting, like splice the rohloff hsync wire to the speed sensor wire with the hope that the sudden burst of any electrical activity will trick the motor into thinking it's over speed and will cut/reduce power (in reality, would probably all happen too slowly - but you get the idea)

 

[CjP]

So the main advantage is the momentary power cut. I wonder if this will improve over time to be more advanced to slowly (relatively) reduce power and slowly (again, relatively) increase power once it detects a completed shift (or knows the exact time it should take). Just cutting the power may not create the perfect "zero" load. It would probably take some time to work out the correct curves based on gear/speed, but might ultimately lead to even smoother changes and less load on the rohloff and the rest of the transmission.

Hasn't anyone tried messing with the nuvinci hubs ? they're infinite, so there should be no need to interrupt the power to change your ratio. I saw one hugely reduced on amazon.com several months back and was almost tempted ..

For the Rohloff, I know @Christian is at risk of permanent physical and psychological damage if he doesn't get one soon ... could he buy an e14 and relevant switcheroo's and install it as it is with it powered from the brose lighting ports ? It wouldn't have the HSYNC enabled, but at least he'd have that as a nice upgrade to look forward too ?

Then he could look at parallel solutions whilst he's waiting, like splice the rohloff hsync wire to the speed sensor wire with the hope that the sudden burst of any electrical activity will trick the motor into thinking it's over speed and will cut/reduce power (in reality, would probably all happen too slowly - but you get the idea)

Don’t worry Zimmer, I am all over this in secret, it’s just a matter of time.
Benefits are many, no wires, auto shifting from 3rd party apps, no chunky cables, no twist shifter etc

I’m excited as f@&k!

 

[CjP]

Sounds fantastic & you're in one of the best places in the world to find available talented people looking for new challenges.

If I can get him to have a look then he’s the perfect candidate, motec re engineer cars so I think a tiny bike should be a breeze you would think.

 

[wepn]

I am all over this in secret

Here's some secret stuff then

1: Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit (8801)
2: Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter (8802)
3: Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit (8803)
4: Rohloff E-14 Connection Cable (8804-8810)
5: Bosch Drive Unit
6: Bosch Battery
7: Bosch Y-Cable

The 'T' shaped ends of the red/purple cables on the diagram, illustrate the cable connectors of the individual components.:

1: Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit (8801)

The Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit is used to send commands to the Rohloff E-14 Shifter unit.

Three buttons are present on the Switch Unit:
+ Button to shift upwards towards gear number 14
- Button to shift downwards towards gear number 1
M Button for autocalibration and general programming functions

The Switch Unit is designed for mounting to standard, 7/8" (22 - 22.3mm) diameter bicycle handlebars. A version compatible with 15/16" (23.8 mm) drop-bars is also available upon request. This version will not be included in the standard package. The E-14 Switch Unit can be mounted to either the left, or right side of the handlebar.

The Switch Unit is connected to the Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter via a blue, 4-Pol Higo connector.

2: Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter (8802)

The Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter is the central electronic connection between both the Bosch eBike System and the Rohloff E-14 system.

Energy supply and communication between all comonents is provided and controlled by the DC/DC-CAN Converter.

The DC/DC-CAN Converter is usually located inside the frames downtube or seattube (check seatpost adjustment space).

A special Bosch Y-Cable connects the DC/DC-CAN Converter with the Bosch eBike System via a black, 6-Pol Hirose connector.

3: Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit (8803)

The Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit is the electromechanical component which physically shifts the SPEEDHUB 500/14 gears.

The Shifter Unit is connected to the Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter via a lilac, 6-Pol Higo connector.

4: Rohloff E-14 Connection Cable (8804-8810)

Due to the fact that the Rohloff DC/DC-CAN Converter is located roughly in the middle of the bicycle and the Shifter Unit at the rear of the bike, an extension cable will be required to connect the two components.

The length of the cable required will differ depending upon the frame size being equippeed with the E-14 system. As such, the Connection Cable is available in a selection of various lengths:

8804, 400 millimeter
8805, 500 millimeter
8806, 600 millimeter
8807, 700 millimeter
8808, 800 millimeter
8809, 900 millimeter
8810, 1000 millimeter

5: Bosch Drive Unit
6: Bosch Battery
7: Bosch Y-Cable
The lilac colored elements shown in the diagram illustrate the Bosch eBike system components.

Overview System - Rohloff AG

 

[Zimmerframe]

Do you think they'll do a cheaper, simpler, version in the future ? The rohloff 8. Maybe with a cable to bypass the complex electronics and some form of external, easily serviceable, shifting mechanism ?

 

[wepn]

I think it's very possible except with higher scale production an E-8 would cost less to produce & maybe even easier for manufacturers to implement compared to a clockwork version.

 

[CjP]

Here's some secret stuff then

1: Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit (8801)
2: Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter (8802)
3: Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit (8803)
4: Rohloff E-14 Connection Cable (8804-8810)
5: Bosch Drive Unit
6: Bosch Battery
7: Bosch Y-Cable

The 'T' shaped ends of the red/purple cables on the diagram, illustrate the cable connectors of the individual components.:

1: Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit (8801)

The Rohloff E-14 Switch Unit is used to send commands to the Rohloff E-14 Shifter unit.

Three buttons are present on the Switch Unit:
+ Button to shift upwards towards gear number 14
- Button to shift downwards towards gear number 1
M Button for autocalibration and general programming functions

The Switch Unit is designed for mounting to standard, 7/8" (22 - 22.3mm) diameter bicycle handlebars. A version compatible with 15/16" (23.8 mm) drop-bars is also available upon request. This version will not be included in the standard package. The E-14 Switch Unit can be mounted to either the left, or right side of the handlebar.

The Switch Unit is connected to the Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter via a blue, 4-Pol Higo connector.

2: Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter (8802)

The Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter is the central electronic connection between both the Bosch eBike System and the Rohloff E-14 system.

Energy supply and communication between all comonents is provided and controlled by the DC/DC-CAN Converter.

The DC/DC-CAN Converter is usually located inside the frames downtube or seattube (check seatpost adjustment space).

A special Bosch Y-Cable connects the DC/DC-CAN Converter with the Bosch eBike System via a black, 6-Pol Hirose connector.

3: Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit (8803)

The Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit is the electromechanical component which physically shifts the SPEEDHUB 500/14 gears.

The Shifter Unit is connected to the Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter via a lilac, 6-Pol Higo connector.

4: Rohloff E-14 Connection Cable (8804-8810)

Due to the fact that the Rohloff DC/DC-CAN Converter is located roughly in the middle of the bicycle and the Shifter Unit at the rear of the bike, an extension cable will be required to connect the two components.

The length of the cable required will differ depending upon the frame size being equippeed with the E-14 system. As such, the Connection Cable is available in a selection of various lengths:

8804, 400 millimeter
8805, 500 millimeter
8806, 600 millimeter
8807, 700 millimeter
8808, 800 millimeter
8809, 900 millimeter
8810, 1000 millimeter

5: Bosch Drive Unit
6: Bosch Battery
7: Bosch Y-Cable
The lilac colored elements shown in the diagram illustrate the Bosch eBike system components.

Overview System - Rohloff AG

Is anyone else aroused by this?

I already have all this information but I enjoyed reading it again.

 

[CjP]

I think it's very possible except with higher scale production an E-8 would cost less to produce & maybe even easier for manufacturers to implement compared to a clockwork version.

An E-8 would be good for ebikes. Drop the weight a little and more suited to ebikes.
I’m excited!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Is anyone else aroused by this?

The lilac colored elements shown in the diagram

The whole thing is designed around creating arousal in the largest throng of people possible ..

I mean, when was the last time you read anything where a complex diagram used Lilac !

 

[CjP]

The whole thing is designed around creating arousal in the largest throng of people possible ..

I mean, when was the last time you read anything where a complex diagram used Lilac !

Many years ago when I re wired my old
Suzuki Sierra.

 

[DrStupid]

"The residual power in the battery will enable the integrated bicycle lighting system to remain functional for a period after the Bosch eBike System switches itself off. The Rohloff E-14 shifting system will also remain functional during this period."

This (above) leads me to believe the e14 might shift without a motor handshake, and maybe, is providing "status" to the Bosch system only. i.e. The rohloff may only need power from the Bosch and will shift gears even if there is no coms with the motor controller.

It's an expensive test though.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Suzuki Sierra.

I had to look that up .. it's the Jimny or Samurai elsewhere in the world ...

Solid little beasty's which go way more places than they deserve to !

Lilac though .. maybe they did a special "australian" market wiring diagram using pretty pastel colours ?

 

[DrStupid]

Do you think they'll do a cheaper, simpler, version in the future ? The rohloff 8. Maybe with a cable to bypass the complex electronics and some form of external, easily serviceable, shifting mechanism ?

I'm not so worried about cheap as I am available.

Currently there is nothing in the less than 10k slot and only two in the available slot for emtbs at all?.


My Trance cost me $4600, add 2k for an OEM installed rohloff A12 igh hub and your at $6600! I would buy that bike all fecking day long if I could find it.

 

[CjP]

I had to look that up .. it's the Jimny or Samurai elsewhere in the world ...

Solid little beasty's which go way more places than they deserve to !

Lilac though .. maybe they did a special "australian" market wiring diagram using pretty pastel colours ?

Yes you guys call cars weird names over there.
It’s the samurai to you and yes it went so many places. Obviously I modified mine beyond standard which made it go even further.
I’ll buy another one someday. So much fun!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yes you guys call cars weird names over there.
It’s the samurai to you and yes it went so many places. Obviously I modified mine beyond standard which made it go even further.
I’ll buy another one someday. So much fun!

Always wanted to build a cool Toyota after my Australian adventures, but ended up doing a land rover defender 90 with no roof. I did enjoy that, rolled it and submerged it in a quarry once when the ice broke ... A friend has an ancient 1980's suzuki vitara (it's probably called the prince albert or something in Australia), gets left for months at a time and, I think, has had 2 oil changes I know of it the last 25 years, starts first time, every time. He used to have a gmc deuce and a half and a volvo sugga for playing in years ago, they were fun .. You should get either of them, certainly the first has lots of space in the back for bikes and the second would easy carry a nice bike rack !

 

[CjP]

Always wanted to build a cool Toyota after my Australian adventures, but ended up doing a land rover defender 90 with no roof. I did enjoy that, rolled it and submerged it in a quarry once when the ice broke ... A friend has an ancient 1980's suzuki vitara (it's probably called the prince albert or something in Australia), gets left for months at a time and, I think, has had 2 oil changes I know of it the last 25 years, starts first time, every time. He used to have a gmc deuce and a half and a volvo sugga for playing in years ago, they were fun .. You should get either of them, certainly the first has lots of space in the back for bikes and the second would easy carry a nice bike rack !

Yes we have the Vitara also. You sound just as crazy as me with 4WDs, way too much fun but also costly. I’m glad I got back into bikes again, much cheaper.

 

[wepn]

you guys call cars weird names over there

Yes not like Australian ingenuity in car names and Japanese encouragement like with the Mitsubishi Pajero.

 

[Binhill1]

Looking at emtbs with rohloffs, that are turn key, I see only the Nicolai and the Riese and Muller.

I can't find any comprehensive reviews of these bikes.

I am curious how the E14 rohloff is actually working?

Anybody here have a review or personal experience?

Are there other rohloff turnkey solutions in the enduro or all mountian ebike categories?

The R&M shows a chainstay of over 500mm! It must be a tank on the trail.

I was buying the Eboxx spoke

Thanks, I did see the post concerning his bike, and I am nearly sold on the functionality of the A12 hub. The problem is the process of getting one fitted.

See The Monkey Lab: Tech Talk: Rohloff's "Through-Axle" A12 Hubs

My effort to install one on my Trance stalled after I downloaded the 50 page instruction manual that walks you through the process of submitting your frame for approval. Ughh!

I spoke to Nicolai and nearly bought the Eboxx as i loved the idea of Rholof and have two Nicolai bikes .Have to import direct now and that put me off. Glad i did not as the cleaning mud off that gate drive would be a night mare .

 

[DrStupid]

I was buying the Eboxx spoke

I spoke to Nicolai and nearly bought the Eboxx as i loved the idea of Rholof and have two Nicolai bikes .Have to import direct now and that put me off. Glad i did not as the cleaning mud off that gate drive would be a night mare .

Is it the cleaning of it only, or do they not work well in mud?

 

[Binhill1]

Is it the cleaning of it only, or do they not work well in mud?

Just the cleaning been horrendous here washing bike 3 times a week.