Planemo

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Mar 12, 2021
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Correct but if you have 13 cells in series all charging at x number of Watts, then it’s only reasonable to assume 10 cells at X Watts is going to take longer to charge a pack to 720 Wh’s than the 13 cells.
Totally lost me there.

The only way you can charge faster is to use more current. The original post suggested that a higher voltage battery can be charged faster.

The current limit is based on what the cells themselves can take. How many cells you have in series (the voltage) is irrelevant in terms of the max current you are able to use.

You can't charge a higher voltage pack faster unless A: the cells are rated to take a higher charge current than the previous cells used or B: the charger manufacturer chooses to push the current output closer to the max cell rating (which many chargers don't). Either way, it's nothing to do with voltage.
 

R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They where of the opinion that the updated Bosch ecosystem is very much geared towards the commuter/cargo bike market and was designed with that in mind first and foremost, but that since the brands that use the Bosch system are desperate for bigger batteries (in their opinion the battery capacity arms race is far more important to generating sales than lighter more minimal systems) they dont have much option but to sling it in the bikes.

They couldn't believe that Bosch wasn't working on something more minimalist in terms of controls though, as their market feedback is that the two most requested things are bigger batteries, and for EMTB's to look as much like a normal bike as possible, with minimal clutter.

Having said that we did have a bit of a laugh, as its really only a small percentage of geeks like us on Forums who get wound up about these things, and most people buying ebikes couldn't give a sh!t :cool: and Bosch probably realise this. They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.
 
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nobbyq

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Feb 17, 2019
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jersey
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canyon
Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They where of the opinion that the updated Bosch ecosystem is very much geared towards the commuter/cargo bike market and was designed with that in mind first and foremost, but that since the brands that use the Bosch system are desperate for bigger batteries (in their opinion the battery capacity arms race is far more important to generating sales than lighter more minimal systems) they dont have much option but to sling it in the bikes.

They couldn't believe that Bosch wasn't working on something more minimalist in terms of controls though, as their market feedback is that the two most requested things are bigger batteries, and for EMTB's to look as much like a normal bike as possible, with minimal clutter.

Having said that we did have a bit of a laugh, as its really only a small percentage of geeks like us on Forums who get wound up about these things, and most people buying ebikes couldn't give a sh!t :cool: and Bosch probably realise this. They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.
what were they testing ????????
 

R120

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They weren't testing anything that I clocked, more out on a ride with some journo's.
 

Waynemarlow

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Dec 6, 2019
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Totally lost me there.

The only way you can charge faster is to use more current. The original post suggested that a higher voltage battery can be charged faster.

The current limit is based on what the cells themselves can take. How many cells you have in series (the voltage) is irrelevant in terms of the max current you are able to use.

You can't charge a higher voltage pack faster unless A: the cells are rated to take a higher charge current than the previous cells used or B: the charger manufacturer chooses to push the current output closer to the max cell rating (which many chargers don't). Either way, it's nothing to do with voltage.
I think you are missing the fact that 10 cells ( 36 volts ) in series all charged at 5 amps will have X Wh’s of stored energy. Charge 13 cells ( 48 volts ) at the same 5 amps and after 1.0 hour you will have 1.3 X Wh’s. To charge those 13 cells you will need to provide a 48 volt charger. If you charged a 13 Cell pack to 36 volts then I would agree after all its just X amount of energy being provided, but we don’t, we use 48 volts.

Have a play with the following calculator Convert Amp hour to Watt hour (Ah to Wh) and input using the examples of 36 volts and 48 volts both at 5 amps. At the end of the day us EBikers are only interested in stored Wh’s of energy, how the manufacturer gets those stored Wh‘s into forward propulsion is of little matter to most who will only be interested in that 2 bikes both charged by 4 amp chargers, the 48 volt bike will go further so will assume it has charged faster.
 

PetrD

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Jul 27, 2020
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4A on 36V is not 4A on 48V. The 4A charger for 48V needs more power and can produce more heat with equal effectivity as the 36V charger. But its not mind.
 

Waynemarlow

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Dec 6, 2019
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4A on 36V is not 4A on 48V. The 4A charger for 48V needs more power and can produce more heat with equal effectivity as the 36V charger. But its not mind.
It’s all a bit academic chaps, we all plug our bikes in and when the green light comes on, we ride. Whether it takes 3 hours or 4 is almost never a problem.
 

cappuccino34

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Nov 24, 2020
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Randomly I bumped into a test team from another manufacturer whilst out in the Surrey Alps this morning.

They also agreed that the bikes ride much better with smaller batteries, but that the market wants as big as possible.
It's not unlike 'performance' cars; everybody admits to enjoying a lighter car more, but then they go and buy some bloated, numb, ill-handling dogpile because it has a bigger number in the 'power output' box.

Audi RS# are prime examples.
 

R120

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I think its horse for courses - to follow your analogy, I once had an RS4, about 15 years ago, and the reason I got it was I wanted a fast car, but also wanted to be able to nail it down to the alps with a full load of bikes/snowboards etc, and it was the best option at the time.

In an ideal world you would have a little ripper of a bike, and something for longer trips, but at current prices the luxury of owning 2 EMTB's isn't viable for most people.
 

cappuccino34

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Does anybody know if production of the current spec stuff is going to end with this update?

So will any bike company selling Bosch powered bikes either have to stop production or change their bikes to suit the new battery dimensions if the current product is ending?
 

Gianni

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Sep 22, 2020
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Sorry, but no one feels the need to have a smaller handlebar control? The new KIOX is hugly, bulky and redundant in features. A huge disappointment for someone like me who loves a minimalist setup and little exposed to breakage in the event of a fall.
 
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cappuccino34

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E="Gianni, post: 335014, member: 12375"]
Sorry, but no one feels the need to have a smaller handlebar control? The new KIOX is hugly, bulky and redundant in features. A huge disappointment for someone like me who loves a minimalist setup and little exposed to breakage in the event of a fall.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. How are you expected to hit the buttons you want on rough terrain or with gloves on? Be like trying to use a Casio calculator watch. ?
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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Jan 14, 2018
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Bosch mention that the 2022 CX is a new drive unit but with identical performance.

Interested to test and see if there’s less internal motor rattle. It’s noticeable going to the silent Levo to the current Rail with the Bosch motor rattling on chunky stuff.

902CF92D-3C76-4151-96AE-BEDB88BBFBD0.jpeg