The EMF

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Nov 4, 2020
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How is the old motor and system effectively obsolete?

Just because it is not the latest model, and not upgradable to the latest model, that does not render it obsolete.
My 2020 Gen4 will continue to work just the same as when I bought it, despite there being a newer model.
Just the same as my Lyrik continues to function despite the introduction of a Zeb, and my 2020 Whyte works just the same despite the introduction of 2021 and 2022 models.
Completely agree…..if I need more range I’d plumb for a spare battery
rather than a new model. I bought the bike because it’s mechanically relatively simple to service and hopefully when or if I require attention to the motor after the warranty period has expired there will be independent establishments to carry out the work.
 

apac

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Hold up, I'm confused!!

This new system allows the firmware to be updated over the air and the wiring has been reworked. Plus the release of a 750wh battery and the scope to allow the motor perameters to be adjusted via the app.

Doesn't it stand to reason that Bosch will eventually release a firmware update to increase the maximum current flow from the battery, thereby increasing the newton meters of torque?
More current .... more watts... more strain on motor parts. I cannot see manufacturers pushing the boundaries of motor performance by allowing updates on how many amps the Motor can and will draw.
 
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Neeko DeVinchi

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More current .... more watts... more strain on motor parts. I cannot see manufacturers pushing the boundaries of motor performance by allowing updates on how many amps the Motor can and will draw.
You never know apac.

If the EWS-E taught us one thing, it was that Bosch system seemed to have the advantage on the Power Stage.
 
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Neeko DeVinchi

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Interestingly enough, I've just heard that this new system will allow you to run either Shimano DI2 or Sram AXS.

Are they suggesting that you can run either system without the batteries or will it just connect via ANT+?
 

Jamze

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Jun 30, 2020
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Interesting, but gone the opposite way I wanted really. I'm happy using Garmin stuff for 'smarts' and just want a minimalist controller like an EP8.
 
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R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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Have to say very disappointed with the updates - yes the new systemis an improvement, but it’s like they totally ignore feedback from existing customers/reviews about giving an option for a minimalist controller.

I really like the Bosch motor, and it’s EMTB mode is the best off the shelf software setting of any motor system IMO, but the user interface is so poor.
How difficult can it be to just make a simple controller that isn’t a wart on the handle bars - the old remote was from the 80’s, the new one has bought it into the 90’s.

I also think they have missed a massive trick by not making a version of the remote available that is retro compatible.
 

R120

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Interestingly enough, I've just heard that this new system will allow you to run either Shimano DI2 or Sram AXS.

Are they suggesting that you can run either system without the batteries or will it just connect via ANT+?
You could run DI2 with the older Bosch systems, including GEN 3 and it would show the info on the display etc
 

p3eps

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What the f*** is that ? ? Reminds me of a sound box I had on my bike as a child. I had police sirens, machine gun noises and motorbike engine sounds ??
A Raleigh Vektar! One of my mates had one, and everyone was well jealous. It eventually got nicked from outside Asda along with my Raleigh Mag Styler!

The Vektar was essentially a Raleigh Burner, with a motocross looking body kit - which housed some really cool (super shit nowadays) electronics. It’d play some weird noises, display your speed, and had a radio built in. If I remember right, it had a Grifter style hub gearbox too.
 

apac

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A Raleigh Vektar! One of my mates had one, and everyone was well jealous. It eventually got nicked from outside Asda along with my Raleigh Mag Styler!

The Vektar was essentially a Raleigh Burner, with a motocross looking body kit - which housed some really cool (super shit nowadays) electronics. It’d play some weird noises, display your speed, and had a radio built in. If I remember right, it had a Grifter style hub gearbox too.
Grifter gears... Blue, yellow, red.... usually stuck in red?
 

Rahr85

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Some of the features would be nice to have, namely finally being able to tailor the power modes, but the battery just being longer means bringing the centre of gravity further up along with adding extra weight. As it stands the 625 is fine for all my rides to date. I guess we'll see how this develops and the equivalent to the orbea rise would be the logical replacement for me in the future. Not really too bothered about anything new as the bike does everything i want to date.

Has anyone noticed how much of a £ premium the update is costing?
 
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The Hodge

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It does nothing to excite me ..I might have got a little bit enthused had it been backward compatible but as it isnt ..couldnt really give a toss..
I will read the blurb in a ( good) few years time if & when I'm ready for a new bike ..
 
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Burnsey

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Aug 27, 2021
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Whyte E-180 RS V3
I'd be lying if I said a bigger battery, new display wouldn't be welcome, but I bought fully aware of the forthcoming upgrade and decided to buy anyway.

These bikes will take a while to hit the shops and supply will still be an issue.

If you wait for the upgrade on anything, you lose decent riding time in my opinion.
 

R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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i think it quite telling the difference between a sytem designed by an electronics/engineering company and by a dedicated bicycle components company.

With Bosch it seems very much the design is based off “it’s a bicycle, has a handlebar so we just need to attach whatever we need to it” without considering how most riders set their controls up or how their control will play nicely with other components.

With Shimano and Specilized they have really thought about how the controls would integrate with other components that mount to the bars, how the cabling would play nicely etc.

for me this is exemplified by how the cable comes out of the new controller - pretty much every other brands control has the cable coming out on the underside of the bars, so it can be routed neatly with other cables etc and out the way.

Bosch still have it coming out the end meaning it’s impossible to make it look tidy or route nicely.
03EB5FD8-FCF0-4635-8A37-3A6145CB91D2.jpeg
 

Tubby G

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i think it quite telling the difference between a sytem designed by an electronics/engineering company and by a dedicated bicycle components company.

With Bosch it seems very much the design is based off “it’s a bicycle, has a handlebar so we just need to attach whatever we need to it” without considering how most riders set their controls up or how their control will play nicely with other components.

With Shimano and Specilized they have really thought about how the controls would integrate with other components that mount to the bars, how the cabling would play nicely etc.

for me this is exemplified by how the cable comes out of the new controller - pretty much every other brands control has the cable coming out on the underside of the bars, so it can be routed neatly with other cables etc and out the way.

Bosch still have it coming out the end meaning it’s impossible to make it look tidy or route nicely.
View attachment 70320
I’m guessing this controller is more aimed at commuter and cargo bikes. There’s too many buttons. Five in total. EMTB’s only need two, plus & minus to change through the modes. I cant figure out what the left & right buttons would be for or the little one in the middle
 

knut7

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What about that new anti-theft feature? That could actually be useful. Is there any detailed information out about that?
Bosch is creating the ConnectModule. It's not ready yet, but they encourage the bike manufacturers to make room for it when they design their bikes. This unit enables you to trace the bike without a bluetooth connection for reporting position
 

knut7

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Bosch was focusing a lot on the future of mobility when they presented the Bosch Smart System. So it's not primarily an emtb system. They talked about future possibilities, like exchanging data with driverless cars and such.

If I had a -20/21 Bosch motor and wanted some kind of app support, Id check out the latest Nyon display. It seems much smaller than the old. I'm sure it's expensive, but if the Smart System was backwards compatible, upgrading would probably cost quite a bit too.
 

stratosa

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Apr 17, 2020
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63
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CONWAY EMR529
Less heat loss due to the lower amps used, higher cadence levels without having to resort to computer optimisation ( meaning better range ) and a few other incrementals such as better use of the new higher density 21700 cells now available ( 39 cells v 60 18650 cells )

Bafang now seem to be pushing the 48 volt route, Mahle is already 48 volts, will 2 years time be the big shift to a Bosch 48 volt motor ?
new higher density 21700 cells now available ( 39 cells v 60 18650 cells )?
from where you get that?
 

Tubby G

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I’m guessing this controller is more aimed at commuter and cargo bikes. There’s too many buttons. Five in total. EMTB’s only need two, plus & minus to change through the modes. I cant figure out what the left & right buttons would be for or the little one in the middle
Left & right buttons could be for indicator lights maybe (on commuter & cargo bikes)
 

RustyMTB

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Jul 22, 2020
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Have to say very disappointed with the updates - yes the new systemis an improvement, but it’s like they totally ignore feedback from existing customers/reviews about giving an option for a minimalist controller.

I really like the Bosch motor, and it’s EMTB mode is the best off the shelf software setting of any motor system IMO, but the user interface is so poor.
How difficult can it be to just make a simple controller that isn’t a wart on the handle bars - the old remote was from the 80’s, the new one has bought it into the 90’s.

I also think they have missed a massive trick by not making a version of the remote available that is retro compatible.
Don't disagree with most of this but it occurs Bosch are designing for use across different manufacturers & consequently there's a one size fits all ethos. No idea if it's the case but wouldn't surprise me if the same company making one of the best drive units has enough about them to have thought about next gen AND ended up with this because reasons.
 

R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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We have a Bergamont E-Ville city bike in the family, which is an amazing ebike, definitely has the best integration and seamless performance of any ebike I have ridden, has DI2 Alfine gears fully integrated into the Bosch system, and you use every button on the controllers , and it all makes a lot more sense than how they work on an EMTB. I just think that it’s a real shame that they haven’t (as yet) produced something that is really sorted fro off road use.

Shimano make multiple switch units all cross compatible across their systems, i just don’t get why Bosh can’t do the same.