Josepma

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
36
28
Barcelona
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TL s-works 2021
It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.
 
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Rob Rides EMTB

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Jan 14, 2018
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Levo Expert
It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.
Drive unit has identical performance, gearing and all drive / performance hardware the same, but, new electrical connectors so it fits with the new controller / Kiox / battery etc.

So yes technically it is new, but only so it works with the new peripherals. There are no performance changes or improvements.
 

RickBullotta

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
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Jun 5, 2019
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Orbea Rise LTD
Bosch eBike Systems unveils new smart system and vision for e-mobility

Headlines:
  • New 750Wh battery
  • New Kiox 300 Display
  • New Handle Remote Controller
  • New App to allow custom modes based on rider requirements
  • None of this is backwards compatible, its an all new system with new connectors

• The new smart system combines digital developments and significant hardware upgrades to further enhance the eBike riding experience.
• Bosch introduces a new large capacity battery, LED control unit and streamlined Kiox display.
• The new Flow App allows for unparalleled customisation of the riding experience and game-changing over-the-air updates.
The most important feature may perhaps be OTA updates. That was a huge fail on Bosch's part to require dealer visits (and fees) for firmware and software updates.
 
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Zimmerframe

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Jun 12, 2019
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Blimey, so bikes fitted with the new 750Wh battery could be nudging 26kg...

Maybe I'm in a minority but I prefer the smaller battery and range extender route.
As seems to be the fashion - they keep using heavier cells each time a company makes a larger battery .. :p :unsure: :ROFLMAO:

500wh Battery : 349mm - 2.9 kg
625wh Battery : + 125wh + 67 mm + 600g
750wh Battery : + 125wh + 68 mm + 900g !
 

H.E.

Member
May 31, 2021
29
88
the mountains
What would be the benefit if the battery is 48V?
There where rumors that bosch will go 48V.
Anyway no problems with 36V Bosch has an effektive system.
Think the motor will be quite similar, dont really understand why they made a different
charging interface and say this system will not be able to use dual battery.
Would make much more sense to me if you could use 500/625 powertubes with adapters in
the 750 tube.
 

knut7

E*POWAH Master
Author
Apr 10, 2018
565
233
Norway
Is new CX motor and 750Wh battery still 36Volts?
If it is 48V, thats the answer why is not backwards compatible.
We asked whether it was 36V or 48V, unfortunately they didn't answer.

But they did answer our question about changes, that has been published previously in this thread. There are no changes to the motor hardware. I'm guessing that means it's still 36V. A 48V motor would require different gearing I assume. Motor rotation speed increases with Voltage.

Also, using the most energy dense cells of today, the only way to get 750 Wh is to go 36V: 60 cells * 3,6V * 3,5Ah = 756Wh
 

Kolskis

New Member
Jul 4, 2021
12
13
Poland, Jelenia
Ride
CubeStereoHyb140Race
So... if you can buy good old Bosch 2021 system in good price, go for it! Isn't worth to wait to get this poor purion ;-) Especially the new bikes will be a 20% up priced...
 
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JetSetDemo

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Patreon
Apr 1, 2018
302
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Ashby de la Zouch
Exciting to see things keep developing. I must say I’ve been disappointed with the EP8 range after I switched to a new bike a few months ago and miss the 700w from my Levo.

I can’t wait to see what hits next year with this 750w system, the Bosch is a great motor.

As for the pace at which developments create obsolescence I think that’s part of the territory with new technology, we all want the next best thing and thats what the market constantly try’s to deliver.

we have to chose if it’s enough each time to buy in to the next best thing.
 
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stratosa

Member
Apr 17, 2020
7
63
GREECE
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CONWAY EMR529
We asked whether it was 36V or 48V, unfortunately they didn't answer.

But they did answer our question about changes, that has been published previously in this thread. There are no changes to the motor hardware. I'm guessing that means it's still 36V. A 48V motor would require different gearing I assume. Motor rotation speed increases with Voltage.

Also, using the most energy dense cells of today, the only way to get 750 Wh is to go 36V: 60 cells * 3,6V * 3,5Ah = 756Wh
It still is 36V.
 

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Akelu

Active member
Jul 31, 2020
195
103
Australia
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2021 Focus Aventura
To make the motor that isn’t even 2 years old effectively obsolete is quite an achievement.
Considering the motor is the same hardware, i don't think this is the case. You just need to take it to shop for motor firmware update. Not that big a deal. I can't see any reason why this motor wont get any future performance updates as the new model, considering they are identical drive wise.
 

Waynemarlow

Active member
Dec 6, 2019
374
123
Bucks
Ride
Whyte T129 with TSDZ
You would get the same output wattage at lower current. Most likely less losses transferring current.
Less heat loss due to the lower amps used, higher cadence levels without having to resort to computer optimisation ( meaning better range ) and a few other incrementals such as better use of the new higher density 21700 cells now available ( 39 cells v 60 18650 cells )

Bafang now seem to be pushing the 48 volt route, Mahle is already 48 volts, will 2 years time be the big shift to a Bosch 48 volt motor ?
 
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Hamina

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Mar 22, 2020
358
203
FIN
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Trek Rail 5 2020
I don't fully understand. First you ask for custom modes, nicer displays and controller. When they make it by changing the drive unit electronics you cry like a baby for backward compatibility. Has there been some promises for this?

Luckily there's a lot of old bikes with current setup and the rest can buy the both generations to really enjoy Bosch products.

Range extenders are marginal business.

I think this was good step straight to year 2021. I have old GEN4 and don't feel bad for it.
 
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Gordyboy

New Member
Jul 6, 2021
3
3
Weymouth
Ride
Nomad V4........
How does the Bosch compare to the Brose system for pedalling resistance once your over the speed limit - I ride with friends who have Cube Stereo & Spec Levo's - the Cube gets dropped big time once over the 15mph limit? Looks like the mechanics are the same for this Bosch upgrade?
 

Zimmerframe

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Jun 12, 2019
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The new controller isn't exactly minimalistic.
It needs to be large to hold the new 750wh battery :) It just needs a few more buttons on it or maybe a full size keyboard ?

Lets make it larger than most displays - but not have a display ... 🤯

All the Purion needs is battery percentage rather than bars and it would be perfect,
And tactile/haptic buttons so you can feel if you've actually pressed them or not.

And a shape which enables you to mount it at the angle you desire in the position you desire.

And a smaller screen - or little raised rubber bumper bars if it has to bet that large.

And a slide out Specialized swat took kit as it's large enough to accommodate it.
 

apac

E*POWAH Master
Subscriber
Aug 14, 2019
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Levo SL
It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.
any new materials being used?.. no
any efficiency gains?.. no
any peak power improvement?.. no
any harder wearing inner parts?..no
any weight savings?.. no
any sound differences?.. no
any cadence differences?.. no

So want changes/enhancements has the "motor system" been given? Am I right or wrong?

sorry, Im feeling pessimistic.

New screen, more cells, different software? Yes??? What about the motor?
 

Mteam

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2020
914
163
gone
How does the Bosch compare to the Brose system for pedalling resistance once your over the speed limit - I ride with friends who have Cube Stereo & Spec Levo's - the Cube gets dropped big time once over the 15mph limit? Looks like the mechanics are the same for this Bosch upgrade?
Your mate with the cube is in the wrong gear/unfit compared to the others. There is no drag from the motor on the bosch when over the motor cutout speed.
 

Kilham5

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Mar 12, 2020
795
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North Yorkshire
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Whyte E-150 S
To make the motor that isn’t even 2 years old effectively obsolete is quite an achievement.
How is the old motor and system effectively obsolete?

Just because it is not the latest model, and not upgradable to the latest model, that does not render it obsolete.
My 2020 Gen4 will continue to work just the same as when I bought it, despite there being a newer model.
Just the same as my Lyrik continues to function despite the introduction of a Zeb, and my 2020 Whyte works just the same despite the introduction of 2021 and 2022 models.
 
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Zimmerframe

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Jun 12, 2019
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any new materials being used?.. no
any efficiency gains?.. no
any peak power improvement?.. no
any harder wearing inner parts?..no
any weight savings?.. no
any sound differences?.. no
any cadence differences?.. no

So want changes/enhancements has the "motor system" been given? Am I right or wrong?

sorry, Im feeling pessimistic.

New screen, more cells, different software? Yes??? What about the motor?
Hey, If Spesh can say a motor is new and call it a 2.2 when it's exactly the same as the 2.1 has been for the previous 6 months, then Bosch can say exactly the same motor is new too.. Though it does sound like maybe they've added/enabled bluetooth in the motor and possibly changed firmware only settings to now be software configurable settings. So, some new boards, but not mechanical changes.
 
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Stoffel

New Member
Jun 16, 2021
15
23
Cotswolds UK
No, you're not. All the Purion needs is battery percentage rather than bars and it would be perfect,
I agree, all I would like is a percentage display instead of bars.

I’ve got no interest in phaffing about tweaking settings with an app, and while more range is appealing I think 625wh is a good balance of range/weight ratio. If I wanted the odd epic day out then I’d go the whole hog and buy a spare battery instead of carrying extra weight around all the time.

I’m more than happy with the bike I bought a month ago and no doubt this new package will stick another 10% on the price of the already overpriced bikes fitted with it.
 

Zimmerframe

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Jun 12, 2019
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Your mate with the cube is in the wrong gear/unfit compared to the others. There is no drag from the motor on the bosch when over the motor cutout speed.
Totally. The Gen4 is zero draggy (Still a pig with 25kg's of bike and tractor tyres, but you can still really push on if you accelerate past the limit, it drops off smoothly and kind of pushes you over it). But then the Brose is pretty much Zero draggy (but has a much harsher cut off). Maybe he has draggier tyres, draggy brakes or all the Brose's are de-restricted ?
 

Neeko DeVinchi

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2020
487
183
UK
youtube.com
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Levo LevoHT & Kenevo
Hold up, I'm confused!!

This new system allows the firmware to be updated over the air and the wiring has been reworked. Plus the release of a 750wh battery and the scope to allow the motor perameters to be adjusted via the app.

Doesn't it stand to reason that Bosch will eventually release a firmware update to increase the maximum current flow from the battery, thereby increasing the newton meters of torque?
 
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