R120

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Surely the bike isn’t t aimed at people wanting to get rowdy on the trails - I look at this think as some of the older locals I know who like to ride out from Reigate where I live along the north downs way over towards Leith hill etc.

Probably a 40mile ride there and back of gentle Singletrack, and the bike would be perfect for that. I see it as more of tool for that kind of riding.

the majority of ebikers I see local to me are older ladies and gentlemen whereby the EMTB has given their riding ability a new lease of life, and it’s definitely a lucrative market.
 

Doomanic

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I think that's going to be the norm for these fatter full fats.
 

R120

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Seems the norm for a regular EMTB has gone from 23kg to 25kg in the last two years.
 

jbrown15

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Seems the norm for a regular EMTB has gone from 23kg to 25kg in the last two years.
Well of course, 2 years ago a 500watt battery was the norm. Now a days allot of people feel like a 600watt is small and most bikes come with 600+watt batteries. Hence the more common heavier bikes.
 

Doomanic

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The calls for more integration had driven the weight up as well. External batteries look bobbins but the bikes were lighter.
 
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R120

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Well of course, 2 years ago a 500watt battery was the norm. Now a days allot of people feel like a 600watt is small and most bikes come with 600+watt batteries. Hence the more common heavier bikes.
Thats my point, it seems the market as a whole is prepared to accept heavier bikes in the quest for longer range.
 

Doomanic

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That's my point, it seems the market as a whole is prepared to accept heavier bikes in the quest for longer range.
It's one of the main reasons I'm in no hurry to buy a new bike; as I want the Holy Grail of light weight and long range I need Elon to pull his finger out and develop some much more energy dense cells.
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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Only lightish bigger capacity bikes I can think of are Santa Cruz Bullit (630Wh ) and 2022 Levo (700wh battery) that are in the 22KG region, maybe there’s a couple more out there from smaller brands (Rotwild?)
 

Doomanic

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The Bullit is a lovely bike to ride downhill, especially when it get a tight and twisty, but the EP8 is very disappointing; both in power delivery and range. I haven't ridden a '22 Levo yet, so can't comment on how it rides but I'd be surprised if it wasn't very good.
 

Bomble

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Only lightish bigger capacity bikes I can think of are Santa Cruz Bullit (630Wh ) and 2022 Levo (700wh battery) that are in the 22KG region, maybe there’s a couple more out there from smaller brands (Rotwild?)
Carbon Rails are pretty light too.
 

R120

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Yeah Rotwild has some great bikes, I really like their equivalent of the Kenevo SL, which is very similar geo wise, but uses the same motor/battery concept as the Orbea Rise. Bonus is the battery is easily removable, and they have enabled the motor to give full power if required.


85CD7C7B-0730-46A7-A519-008729857430.png
 
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Paul Mac

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The fact of the matter is, until current battery technology changes, the bikes can't get much lighter.
 

Paul Mac

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Wasn't the 2019/20 carbon Levo with 700wh battery about 22kg as well?
Yes that was before the trend of 38 forks and piggy back shocks with more robust tyres.
That's pushed the weight up on all these bikes.
 
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Rusty

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The fact of the matter is, until current battery technology changes, the bikes can't get much lighter.
Yes ... and no.
Came across a guy a few weeks back on a ride that had a battery failure on his E8000 powered bike. Could not get a battery from his LBS so sent the battery to a guy that does repacks for contractors power tools. Had a bunch of failed cellsso did a full repack - apparently the cells were 2000mah originally. The guy was given the option of 3 different brand batteries - 2600,mah, 2800mah or 3000mah with appropriate pricing. He was also advised a shipment of 3200mah were on the way but not expected for a month or so. As he wasn't too worried about range having got enough with the original battery he went with the middle ground and I think it ended up close to 600W/h instead of the original 504Wh. Weight wise I don't expect much difference.

However, as Graphene starts to be fully developed and the cost comes down that will have a huge impact on weight.
 
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R120

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Yes ... and no.
Came across a guy a few weeks back on a ride that had a battery failure on his E8000 powered bike. Could not get a battery from his LBS so sent the battery to a guy that does repacks for contractors power tools. Had a bunch of failed cellsso did a full repack - apparently the cells were 2000mah originally. The guy was given the option of 3 different brand batteries - 2600,mah, 2800mah or 3000mah with appropriate pricing. He was also advised a shipment of 3200mah were on the way but not expected for a month or so. As he wasn't too worried about range having got enough with the original battery he went with the middle ground and I think it ended up close to 600W/h instead of the original 504Wh. Weight wise I don't expect much difference.

However, as Graphene starts to be fully developed and the cost comes down that will have a huge impact on weight.
Would be interesting to find out who did that for him!
 
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Doomanic

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Had a bunch of failed cellsso did a full repack - apparently the cells were 2000mah originally.
He either didn’t understand what he was being told or was being lied to by the bloke repacking the cells. To get 504Wh the cells are 3500mah.
 
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stiv674

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He either didn’t understand what he was being told or was being lied to by the bloke repacking the cells. To get 504Wh the cells are 3500mah.
Something not quite right there, if they were 2000 mAh cells in the original battery, then you'd need 70 to get to 504wh...
 
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Rusty

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Not certain as that was what he told me over a after ride coffee. However, the batteries in a Shimano battery pack I have seen were Panasonic CGR18650CG and according to the spec sheet they are 2250mAh. Have also seen inside a Darfon battery pack for the Shimano Steps system and that had Samsung 25R, which are 2500mAh according to spec. I know Darfon have their own BMS, but don't know how they are wired.
 

Doomanic

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Simple maths tells you that’s not right. To get 36v is 10 cells in series. Volts times capacity is Wh. So 36 * 2.25 = 81Wh. If each “stick” is 81Wh you’d need 6.22 sticks to make 504Wh. The Shimano battery is known to be 40 cells (4 “sticks”) so they have to be 3.5Ah cells.
 
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Doomanic

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It’s also why the 630Wh battery is bigger; they simply added another “stick”.
 

RickBullotta

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