I'm gonna check this steel bike ( Sobre Dad) tomorrow morning, your thoughts everybody ?

[Kaelidoz]

more pics:


Sram GX 11 vitesses
Sram NX
Magura mt4
Mavic 729
Size L, 27.5"
It's 1200€ with an additional pair of road rims. Without them, the price will be lower. It looks brand new (200km)

The bike was assembled by professionals at Antenna Bikes

DAD 12 – Sobre Bikes

www.sobre-bikes.fr

It's a small french brand that makes fun but simple steel bikes. Less fancy than say Caminade but still beautiful in its simplicity.

What do you think of the bike and the overall deal? Guys!??

 

[Kaelidoz]

Pssst @Gary

 

[Zimmerframe]

Pssst @Gary

I was just going to say that ? ??

 

[Kaelidoz]

If he's not there by 20PM I'll just say something wrong that should do the trick.

grmblblme..shorter cranks..zquikrilzb..fat tires..rbhje..haibikeflyonisveryagile..zuizbuvwoubz..flatpedalsareslippy..

 

[Jackware]

It's a good looking bike but having owned a Charge Cooker for a while a few years ago, you soon remember why fork suspension is so popular

 

[Gary]

Other than from a niche bullshit/niche talking point of view i genuinely don't see any reason to own a steel framed bicycle in this day and age. But whatever floats your (slightly heavier) boats.

 

[Kaelidoz]

@Jackware isn't the charge cooker full aluminum tho? I can also swap the fork when/if I'm bored

Edit : slighlty different bike, this is the most recent "Dad".

@Gary Repair-ability? Longevity? Suppleness? Nope? Genuinely asking

Anyway what do you think of the starting price? Considering that the frame is around 500€ without the rigid steel fork.

 

[Gary]

@Gary Repair-ability? Longevity? Suppleness? Nope? Genuinely asking

"repairability" falls firmly into the bullshit category for me.
in order to have your shitty Steel frame repaired back to original condition, you need to strip it down, send it off to a specialist frame builder who will then need to dismantle the damaged tube to have it replaced and afterwards it will need re-painted, All at fairly high cost. higher than just buying a new aluminium frame. If it's a weld that needs re-doing you bought a badly designed/manufactured frame in the first place (so why even bother having it repaired?)
"
"Suppleness" and "the zing of steel" etc. is just absolute bullshit. Especially with an mtb. What the manufacturers and journos are actually selling you is plain and simple flex. and flex can be designed into an alu frame absolutely fine with butting and tube profiles you simply can't make economically out of steel. Carbon as a frame material can be designed to be stiff or flexy in any direction the designer so chooses.
I'm not actually a hater of steel. I have owned many steel framed bicycles including hand built high quality steel. I just think it's a rather pointless frame material nowadays.

Nope? Er... Yeah.. it's very much a nope from me. overly heavy rust prone materials just don't make any sort of sense for bicycvle manufacture.

Price wise, it's not particularly good value. If it's for mountainbiking £1200 can buy you something a lot lighter or more capable than this.
But if you want it, don't let me put you off. If you're happy with it that's all that matters.

Ps. a fully rigid mtb is not a "hardtail"

 

[KeithR]

Other than from a niche bullshit/niche talking point of view i genuinely don't see any reason to own a steel framed bicycle in this day and age. But whatever floats your (slightly heavier) boats.

They're what I started on - fully rigid, too - and I wouldn't ride one now if I was paid to.

 

[Kaelidoz]

Interesting points!

Yeah I was sure I edited the title, my plan is to swap forks when I feel like it, that's why it's not totally rigid in my head and why I messed up my title heh.

 

[Gary]

They're what I started on - fully rigid.

Me too Bro
A Reynolds 531 frame and fork with DeoreII groupset. (Circa 1990)

I still occasionally do ride a fully rigid steel mtb.
They still have their place, but I wouldn't blow a grand on one

 

[Zimmerframe]

it's very much a nope from me. overly heavy rust prone materials just don't make any sort of sense for bicycvle manufacture.

Well .. this just shows you don't have a clue !!!

People buy a bike and then spend a fortune while they have it - making it lighter.

Steel bikes rust and therefore lose weight all on their own over time - with no further investment needed !!!

Therefore Steel bikes are the bike for the forward thinker ! It might cost more to buy initially, but as it oxidises, it becomes better value !

 

[KeithR]

Univega Alpina 5.5 here, around '94. (I had a Raleigh Activator I before that, which I was very glad was nicked.)

I specced the Alpina up into a 23lb bike, and it got me round loads of TrailQuest and Polaris challenges back in the day, then I upgraded it with a state of the art ( ) Manitou Mach 5 SX fork - a whole 3.5 inches of juicy elastomer travel - which is how it stayed until I gave it away.

It was a quality bike in its day, but - by today's standards - an utterly prehistoric thing.

And I just don't understand the appeal of going backwards: hardtail (and in particular, fully rigid) chromoly bikes - despite the misty-eyed romance that surrounds them - are slow, clumsy, hard on the body and just nothing like the image of playful, springy, compliant fun that people have of them.

Yeah, they make for good jump bikes - and I can see the case for long-distance bike-packing etc. - but aside from that, they don't do anything that can't be done better on a more modern full sus bike.

Their appeal is just lost on me. It's not a coincidence that as soon as we got the chance to get off rigid bikes and onto full sus bikes, we jumped at the opportunity, without a moment's pause for thought.

 

[routrax]

@Jackware isn't the charge cooker full aluminum tho?

I've got 2013 & 2014 cooker frames, both steel.

Steel is great for the road, it's a bit more compliant than aluminium so a better ride.

Also have a Genesis Tarn 20, which is steel, and a Norco Search 3, which is also steel.

 

[routrax]

Still got my ‘94 Marin. What rust? ...It’s a perfect daily commute, plus I just dressed it up for a bit of touring.

View attachment 35500

That's awesome!
I've been thinking of building a cooker based ebike with an Alfine 11 and Gates belt kit.
How's this beauty working out? Any tips on the conversion?

 

[Gary]

Steel is great for the road, it's a bit more compliant than aluminium so a better ride.

That's absolute bollocks mate.
It's not the fact it's made of steel that makes a frame tube more compliant but it's profile and how it's designed and fitted together with all the other tubes. And as I said already. Alu is far more easily formed into intricate tube shapes, profiles and thicknesses.
A steel frame can be built to be very stiff and harsh AF just as an alu one can be built with flex and give.
Please stop using the word "compliant" your frame is either flexy or stiff or somewhere inbetween.
Most of the "compliance" you're feeling is coming from the poor quality dropper posts you have in those two frames

Charge frames were generally all Tiwanese factory frames and pretty low quality in design and manufacture cleverly marketed by Nick Larsen
He's also the man behind the brand "Fabric", now works for cannondale and is IMO the main reason the brand have become cool again recently eg. the 50:01/Bryceland tie in and actual decent normal looking mtbs and Emtbs for once.

 

[Gary]

Well .. this just shows you don't have a clue !!!

People buy a bike and then spend a fortune while they have it - making it lighter.

Steel bikes rust and therefore lose weight all on their own over time - with no further investment needed !!!

Therefore Steel bikes are the bike for the forward thinker ! It might cost more to buy initially, but as it oxidises, it becomes better value !

And as if by magic the first google images hit for "rusty bike frame" happens to be chained to a wall in Brittany, France

 

[Zimmerframe]

And as if by magic the first google images hit for "rusty bike frame" happens to be chained to a wall in Brittany, France

I bet if I look on leboncoin , I'll find it for sale for 10x it's new price !

 

[routrax]

That's absolute bollocks mate.
It's not the fact it's made of steel that makes a frame tube more compliant but it's profile and how it's designed and fitted together with all the other tubes. And as I said already. Alu is far more easily formed into intricate tube shapes, profiles and thicknesses.
A steel frame can be built to be very stiff and harsh AF just as an alu one can be built with flex and give.
Please stop using the word "compliant" your frame is either flexy or stiff or somewhere inbetween.
Most of the "compliance" you're feeling is coming from the poor quality dropper posts you have in those two frames

Charge frames were generally all Tiwanese factory frames and pretty low quality in design and manufacture cleverly marketed by Nick Larsen
He's also the man behind the brand "Fabric", now works for cannondale and is IMO the main reason the brand have become cool again recently eg. the 50:01/Bryceland tie in and actual decent normal looking mtbs and Emtbs for once.

I'm sure you're right, as usual, @Gary, and the tens or more articles backing up what I said are all wrong, so I'll be compliant and bow to your clearly superior knowledge of abso-f*cking-loutly everything.

Out of my three steel framed bikes, the two I ride on the road don't have a dropper, but I'll be compliant again (like my steel frames), they are all probably badly designed pieces of sh*t, mainly because you don't own one or 'disprove' of the brand or because you've run out of shortbread/buckfast/heroin/bagpipes (delete as applicable) and are taking it out on those around you.

I hope you get the help you need.
Your compliantly
Rx

Your next road bike needn't be carbon: could steel, titanium or aluminum be a better choice?

Carbon is often seen as the default option - but a metal bike brings with it a lot of benefits

www.cyclingweekly.com

Best Frame Material: Steel Or Aluminium? (Touring Bike FAQ #3)

This is #3 in an ever-growing series of answers to frequently-asked questions about touring bikes. If you’re new here, why not start with #1: What Exactly Defines A Touring Bike? Discussing the pros and cons of different metallic alloys is probably not something you ever thought you’d find...

tomsbiketrip.com

 

[Kaelidoz]

Haha calm down everyone, we all just babbling about fun bikes. I do agree with Gary about flex and stiffness you can have it all with all materials depending on the frame structure. He's a bit harsh when he thinks something is plainly wrong but hey so did you on this one! Get a room already jeez.

I still think that the Sobre Dad frame is a fucking good (steel) frame, and far from expensive. Like all 3 or 4 frames designs that Sobre sells currently. It may be niche but no so much in the francophone world and the good type of niche. Far from hipster bullshitery.

Also still think that steel is more repairable, especially thinking about dropouts misalignment. They also usually fail less spectacularly. And I'm pretty sure that I will never see rust on that bike. See you in 10 years I guess, when I'll still be riding this puppy.

I bought it in the end, it's sitting next to the Sduro. Good components, got another 29" wheelset complete with discs,cassette to swap around with the 27.5" Mavic Ex729. Ho I love that fork, it will be fun to try the bike with a 120mm -something- but that rigid looks so fresh and light it's funny.

The bike is pristine.

Well except for the lil' rubbed paint from the rear oversized 3.0 Rocket Ron. Completely ridiculous. Being ridden only for a few kms with these on completely saved the frame. 400km with dem stupid tires would have killed the frame. There was like 2mm of clearance, if not less lol.

I'll swap with 2.3 WTB that I've in stock and maybe 2.4 to 2.6 in the all-rigid setup so I'll keep a bit of pneumatic softness Not a fan of "big" tires tho.

The fact that it was assembled by guy owning a reputable bike shop baffles me. It's the customer idea but it's a stupid one. Should have said "no" and shoot the guy on the spot (joke, he was actually a nice kid. He wanted to buy an emtb... god damn cheater).


And please chill everyone! I appreciated the pictures of your bikes but there's no need to talk so much about poly-dependence like it's such a bad thing ?


Just smoke drugs outta Gary's bagpipes. I use it as a bong when he's not looking (probably too busy secretly drooling in front of my Haibike and my Sobre).


Peace

 

[routrax]

Haha calm down everyone, we all just babbling about fun bikes. I do agree with Gary about flex and stiffness you can have it all with all materials depending on the frame structure. He's a bit harsh when he thinks something is plainly wrong but hey so did you on this one! Get a room already jeez.

I still think that the Sobre Dad frame is a fucking good (steel) frame, and far from expensive. Like all 3 or 4 frames designs that Sobre sells currently. It may be niche but no so much in the francophone world and the good type of niche. Far from hipster bullshitery.

Also still think that steel is more repairable, especially thinking about dropouts misalignment. They also usually fail less spectacularly. And I'm pretty sure that I will never see rust on that bike. See you in 10 years I guess, when I'll still be riding this puppy.

I bought it in the end, it's sitting next to the Sduro. Good components, got another 29" wheelset complete with discs,cassette to swap around with the 27.5" Mavic Ex729. Ho I love that fork, it will be fun to try the bike with a 120mm -something- but that rigid looks so fresh and light it's funny.

The bike is pristine.

Well except for the lil' rubbed paint from the rear oversized 3.0 Rocket Ron. Completely ridiculous. Being ridden only for a few kms with these on completely saved the frame. 400km with dem stupid tires would have killed the frame. There was like 2mm of clearance, if not less lol.

I'll swap with 2.3 WTB that I've in stock and maybe 2.4 to 2.6 in the all-rigid setup so I'll keep a bit of pneumatic softness Not a fan of "big" tires tho.

The fact that it was assembled by guy owning a reputable bike shop baffles me. It's the customer idea but it's a stupid one. Should have said "no" and shoot the guy on the spot (joke, he was actually a nice kid. He wanted to buy an emtb... god damn cheater).


And please chill everyone! I appreciated the pictures of your bikes but there's no need to talk so much about poly-dependence like it's such a bad thing ?


Just smoke drugs outta Gary's bagpipes. I use it as a bong when he's not looking (probably too busy secretly drooling in front of my Haibike and my Sobre).


Peace

I won't take you long to find the threads that @Gary has derailed, it's a large percentage of the ones he posted in. I bet there is a not inconsiderable amount of people that either don't post or don't post as frequently because they can't be bothered with the almost inevitable happening if they dare share an opinion.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. definitely calm down mate.
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that by answering Kal's direct question honestly and factually I derailed the thread?


Did you even bother to read the lazily written cliche'd Cycling weekly article you posted links to?

 

[routrax]

Yeah. definitely calm down mate.
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that by answering Kal's direct question honestly and factually I derailed the thread?


Did you even bother to read the lazily written cliche'd Cycling weekly article you posted links to?

That's absolute bollocks mate.

Please stop using the word "compliant" your frame is either flexy or stiff or somewhere inbetween.
Most of the "compliance" you're feeling is coming from the poor quality dropper posts you have in those two frames

your shitty Steel frame

^^^ Your contributions to what could have been a decent thread on steel frames.
You clearly had nothing to add to conversation other than insulting people, their choice of frame material and choice of words.

 

[Gary]

Try looking up the word "compliant" in a dictionary. Instead of trying to use it to mean some sort of magical property steel has.

a decent thread on steel frames.

 

[routrax]

Try looking up the word "compliant" in a dictionary. Instead of trying to use it to mean some sort of magical property steel has.

Nope, you're still not adding anything worthwhile.

 

[Kaelidoz]

tbh Gary you keep focusing on the word "compliance" but it is used in frame work, architecture, aviation. And it is somewhat used directly against "stiffness". Not that I care about steel flex but who really gives that much of a shit anyway
Still agree about your initial comment. Still thinking that you have good knowledge to pass on but it's lost in translation with dem behaviors.


ANYWAY

I just finished tweaking the Sobre with parts I had laying around until I order some. It's 4 AM and the guys are supposed to come at 9:30 for a bike ride. Hopefully they'll be late lol. Can't wait to try it, but after checking everything I'm really happy with the deal. Good stuffs.

I also spent the day at work repairing this trike, probably 20 years old. With the help of my residents of course
One of them saw some Odi grips in my tools box and wanted them on the bike so here it is.

That fixie is scary af.

 

[Jackware]

So how was the ride with your new Dad?

 

[Kaelidoz]

Really fun! Groupset is indeed barely used. The bike is solid and nimble. On technical steep descends, I don't know why but I felt confident.

I left the 3.0 tubeless on the front just for fun (2.3 rear) and the carbon bars so it wasn't that bad on the wrists with the rigid forks. I'll quickly buy a shorter stem, better pedals, decent tires in both 27.5" and 29". I'm waiting for the Pine dropper in 27.2 with 110mm drop from PNW components to be back in stock.

The front sus will wait unless I find some incredible deal: the rigid is scary-fun for now, might be the novelty. It's just so different, especially when I modulate the front brake, do a stoppie, it feels great I liked that.


So yes definitively happy of the first ride because the bike felt very right even if I hated the pedals, no dropper, long stem, not used to flat bars, and the 3.0 front tire is totally alien to me (super fun rolling over things but the direction is definitely more vague).

It's also hard to be objective since everything is better specs than my Haibike. Just the wheelset, the thru axles... I'll have to ride this bike much more to wrap my mind around it.


Ho and coming back to my house I rolled over the freshest dog shit ever. Front tire caked, warm chocolate with crunchy bits hanging off my frame. Mates were pleased, 11/10 ride.

 

[Kaelidoz]

Bike is done, might cut some bits later (steerer, bars) I enjoy it immensely so far!

2.8 front conti cross
2.4 rear conti trail
100mm 95€ KS Dropper
Wide bar with a lil' rise, shorter stem
fresh Cinelli tape grips
fresh Octane One Crit saddle
Old Nukeproof pedals
I also have a pair of 29" with tan walled smart sam ready to roll, disc and cassette fitted.

 

[Binhill1]

I have a 25 year old Alves custom made hardtail with rst elastomer shock. Originally it was all Campagnolia group set. Got a rear rack to take panniers so great for landrover tracks when going hill walking. Good back in the day.