Handlebar Rise

[DrStupid]

RaceFace 35 and 40mm rise Fatbar.

This makes the bike supera comfortable for me, and way more playful on the trail. But, also gives up much grip/stability at the front-end, in the dry, dusty, loose conditions I'm riding.

I'm gonna fit the original stem with this riser bar and see what happens.


I think giant knew what they were doing when they set the stack so low. It's very stable, all be it not too comfy. Everybody is different though. Somebody with different proportions might not experience the loose front end after the same changes I guess.

 

[DrStupid]

After

RaceFace 35 and 40mm rise Fatbar.

This makes the bike supera comfortable for me, and way more playful on the trail. But, also gives up much grip/stability at the front-end, in the dry, dusty, loose conditions I'm riding.

I'm gonna fit the original stem with this riser bar and see what happens.


I think giant knew what they were doing when they set the stack so low. It's very stable, all be it not too comfy. Everybody is different though. Somebody with different proportions might not experience the loose front end after the same changes I guess.
View attachment 19424 View attachment 19425

After a good bit of time today outback on the trance with the OEM stem, and the fatbar 40 riser. I have come to the conclusion that this setup rocks! Let's face it, the stock stack is too low for anybody but a trail troll, and just about everyone puts all the shims under the stem (like I know everybody, living in the middle of nowhere KY riding by myself every day lol). A 40mm riser bar makes a lot of sense becuase now I have adjustments that are reasonable. The sweet spot for me is two shims on top of the stem.

This bar is stiffer than the OEM, and while that's probably good for some, I prefer the compliance of the stock bar. The stuff I ride is pretty slow and very hard with lots of embedded, and loose rocks. I like plush, but need stiffer suspension settings to avoid peddle strikes, and reasonably higher psi in the tires to avoid punctures. The OEM bar was apparently pretty flexy becuase it absorbed some of the harshness I now feel through the fat bar. It's a process and I love it.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Imagine my surprise when I stumbled across this thread! I thought I was the only one who felt the front end on the Trance E+ was too low (felt this way the very moment I tested one in my LBS parking lot).

An old Truvativ Holzfeller DH bar (40mm rise) for me. The clamp diameter is old school 31.8mm (stock Giant bar is 35mm), but that just gives me more options to play around with various Stems to get my fit right. My current stem is slightly longer than stock - FUNN CrossFire 40mm length, zero degree rise.

My height is 180cm and I'm smack in the middle of Small and Medium frame size in the Giant sizing chart. I tried the medium and it felt slow and sluggish for me, so I went for a small and I'm very glad I did. It's lively in the tight technical sections, and steady on the straights. Interestingly, the wheelbase is still actually slightly longer than all of my older manual bikes... which were mediums and some large (with untra-short stems).

 

[Evolution Stu]

Very Nice mate!

 

[DrStupid]

Is anybody else noticing that the after market bars transmit a much harsher ride?

I took the OEM trance bars and put them on my KHS 6555+ to see if the magic plush feeling could be transmitted to another bike... sure enough the KHS now has the best feeling front suspension in the stable.

Somehow, the Gaint OEM bars feel as though you just took 5 psi out of the front tire when compared to the two other bars (renthal fatba and Kore XCD, 31.8) that I can easily compare it against.

Am I imagining this?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Very Nice mate!

Cheers Stu.

You've got a 3Pro like mine right, with the Suntour Aion fork? You wouldn't happen to know if they have removable air volume spacers inside the pressure chamber?

I'm finding the stock setup too progressive and I'd like to make it more linear. But I can't find any info about this and I don't want to open up the fork chamber if I don't have to.

Edit:
Not to worry... I opened it up just now and yes, there are air volume spacers in there.

 

[lona79]

Is anybody else noticing that the after market bars transmit a much harsher ride?

I took the OEM trance bars and put them on my KHS 6555+ to see if the magic plush feeling could be transmitted to another bike... sure enough the KHS now has the best feeling front suspension in the stable.

Somehow, the Gaint OEM bars feel as though you just took 5 psi out of the front tire when compared to the two other bars (renthal fatba and Kore XCD, 31.8) that I can easily compare it against.

Am I imagining this?

Hi,
have you tried other handlebars?
Did you solve the problem?

 

[DrStupid]

Hi,
have you tried other handlebars?
Did you solve the problem?

No problem, this was just an observation that the OEM bars add to the plush ride offered by the trance.

 

[lona79]

No problem, this was just an observation that the OEM bars add to the plush ride offered by the trance.

For me is a problem
In your opinion, which others handlebars have the same plush like OEM bar?

 

[MitchF]

40mm -800mm Fatbar on my stance, 35mm stem. More comfort and quick steering ??

 

[lona79]

Yes I know.
I tried it too the Renthal Fatbar, 31.8mm clamp (with 40x31.8mm stem), 780mm widht, 38mm rise, but it seemed to me less plush than the OEM bar.

 

[DrStupid]

For me is a problem
In your opinion, which others handlebars have the same plush like OEM bar?

Ok. That make sense now. At least it proves I was not imagining that the oem bars on trance = plush.

But, to answer your question... No, I have not found any other bars as plush, but have not tried either. I'm ok with the renthal even if it's not as smooth.

 

[DrStupid]

Ok. That make sense now. At least it proves I was not imagining that the oem bars on trance = plush.

But, to answer your question... No, I have not found any other bars as plush, but have not tried either. I'm ok with the renthal even if it's not as smooth.

Maybe start a thread in the general forum about plush bars?

 

[Wernher]

If your aftermarket bars are carbon it may be stiffer giving the impression of a harder ride. Also consider whether the other handlebars let you put more weight on your hands. I'll be surprised if you'll really get a plusher ride but more weight due to the position that you sit on can make a market difference. It doesn't necessarily have to be lower. You can also experience it if your bars are more forward as it will bring the weight of your upper body more onto your hands. I've got carbon bars on my bike but also lifted the front with a different fork and it made my ride much more confidence inspiring and also took weight of my hands thereby reducing fatigue.

 

[DrStupid]

If your aftermarket bars are carbon it may be stiffer giving the impression of a harder ride. Also consider whether the other handlebars let you put more weight on your hands. I'll be surprised if you'll really get a plusher ride but more weight due to the position that you sit on can make a market difference. It doesn't necessarily have to be lower. You can also experience it if your bars are more forward as it will bring the weight of your upper body more onto your hands. I've got carbon bars on my bike but also lifted the front with a different fork and it made my ride much more confidence inspiring and also took weight of my hands thereby reducing fatigue.

Not carbon.

I've run the gambit of positions and stem options, even doing back to back rides swapping only the bars, but using the spacers to maintain the same stack height.

The giant OEM bars (at least my set, and at least one other set. Lol) are flexible, apparently in a way that absorbs small bumps. Its either that, or I'm totally imagining things within the context of a very small group hallucination , which is a distinct possibility.

 

[Wernher]

Quite possible. I was astounded at how light the stock bars were. I'm convinced they're the same weight as my carbon bars. I never felt the subtleness though but I was very heavy on my bars due to the low riding position. I'm also riding mostly very technical terrain where I either pull back on the bars or doing drops. If I was riding more cross country type of trails I may have felt that kind of differences.

 

[lona79]

Today another test:
I put the OEM handlebar back on and I did the same trail yesterday.
OEM bar it's more plush and less comfortable.
Renthal (38mm rise) is more comfortable but less plush.

@MrTeno2U : in your opinion the problem is the type of aluminum or the rise?

 

[DrStupid]

Today another test:
I put the OEM handlebar back on and I did the same trail yesterday.
OEM bar it's more plush and less comfortable.
Renthal (38mm rise) is more comfortable but less plush.

@MrTeno2U : in your opinion the problem is the type of aluminum or the rise?

I'm not qualified to say really, but I dont think taller bars necessary will be any more or less forgiving based just on the rise dimision.
There is a lot of technology at work here, not just the type of material, or its thickness at various places throughout the construction, but as well the processes involved in it's making.

Its well... its science, and I'm sure Renthals fat bars are excatly what Renthal intended them to be, tough mama jammers.

I am certain Renthal could make a bar with more flexibility, but likely choose not to based on the expected demands of their intended users.

I tried to find a Gaint bar with more rise, but was unsuccessful..maybe some other member knows if Gaint makes a taller bars or who if anybody makes the bars for these Gaints.

 

[Wernher]

Today another test:
I put the OEM handlebar back on and I did the same trail yesterday.
OEM bar it's more plush and less comfortable.
Renthal (38mm rise) is more comfortable but less plush.

@MrTeno2U : in your opinion the problem is the type of aluminum or the rise?

If you look at the stock bar, you'll see it's got a 20mm rise, 9mm back sweep and 5mm up sweep. The Renthal at 38mm up sweep gives you 18mm extra height which is only part of the story of the up and back sweeps are identical you still have to look at the thin part of the bar that takes the grips and brake levers etc. Those types are not specced but I found them to be quite long on the stock bars which on my opinion could mean more flex purely because the pivot point is further from the ends of the bar. That could account for the so called push feeling that a couple of you are claiming to feel ?. Sorry I'm not mocking you just stressing the fact that this is based on perception and not actual machine based testing regardless of how precise your perception might be. That said, you have to decide what you prefer and whether it addresses your need. I lifted my bars with a Raceface carbon bar and found that the bike was still too low. Only after I lifted the front by 30mm by replacing my fork did I get the result that I wanted. Remember lifting the front of the bike changes the geometry by slacking the fork angle and lifting the pedals, the 2 things that bothered me on the Trance-e based on my type of terrain which includes lots of rocks and drops with some fast downhill stretches. I needed a bike that won't get me caught on the rocks, which initially was quite an issue and I got a lot of pedal strikes that I had to ride around by stopping my pedaling and coasting through obstacles. Although I got really good at it, it still hampered my speed at which I could go through these obstacles. The longer wheelbase and slacker head angle has lightened my front end just enough to make it easier to raise the front wheel without making it too light thereby compromising climbing which I also do a lot of.

I took a long time before I made some of the changes and I thought it through very carefully making calculations of what the effect would be for every change and then did each one, one at a time validating the result so that I could move back a step of it was a negative. In the end it was all positive. My bike is now a perfect fit for me and my type of riding.

A last point is that I'm 1,89 metres tall, which puts me right on the edge between a large and extra large. Extra large wasn't available at the time so I opted for large. The changes I made makes my bike fit better if only for the raised front end. With that said, I've ridden an extra large of a friend and my bike as it is now is better for my needs than the extra large.

So as far as your bars are concerned, if the Renthal bars are not uncomfortable and addresses your issue with the low front end That's what you're going to have. If the ride is too harsh you need to look at alternatives. If you say it's less plush, how much less plush? Also tyre pressure is a massive role player. If you don't do massive jumps, be careful how hard you pump your tyres because it can make the front loose grip over rocky terrain and will make your ride very harsh. A Difference of 50 psi is incredibly big.

Meanwhile don't forget to ride and enjoy your bike ?

 

[Wernher]

Just had another look at the handlebars and I think the so called plush feeling that you guys are reporting has got nothing to do with the material but everything with how your hands connect with the bars.

The stock bars are 780 mm. If your Renthal bars are 800, your hands are immediately 20 mm further out which changes the angle that you connect with more weight on the inside of the hands rather than the outside of all other parameters are the same. This will move more of your weight onto your hands. Sometimes sweeping the bars back helps with the weight on the hands but if you go too far out will make you hand placement unnatural. That said I think it's more this than any material specific thing. If you told me you went from aluminium to carbon I could have seen some merit in the harsher experience but not with the same material. This must be either the width or the sweep that changes how your hands on combination with your upper body distributes your weight. That's my final prognosis.

 

[DrStupid]

Just had another look at the handlebars and I think the so called plush feeling that you guys are reporting has got nothing to do with the material but everything with how your hands connect with the bars.

The stock bars are 780 mm. If your Renthal bars are 800, your hands are immediately 20 mm further out which changes the angle that you connect with more weight on the inside of the hands rather than the outside of all other parameters are the same. This will move more of your weight onto your hands. Sometimes sweeping the bars back helps with the weight on the hands but if you go too far out will make you hand placement unnatural. That said I think it's more this than any material specific thing. If you told me you went from aluminium to carbon I could have seen some merit in the harsher experience but not with the same material. This must be either the width or the sweep that changes how your hands on combination with your upper body distributes your weight. That's my final prognosis.

Lol. Back to the small group hallucinations again.

 

[DrStupid]

These are predominantly carbon bars, but shows how like materials can actually perform over a wide range of rigidity, even isolating particular forces from others.

 

[Wernher]

This test proves I'm not aan insensitive oaf ??. The Raceface carbon bar has the same flex as the alu bar. Having said that, you've got to be really heavy to flex those bars. You sensitive dudes must be really super sensitive or extremely heavy to pick that up ?.

 

[DrStupid]

This test proves I'm not aan insensitive oaf ??. The Raceface carbon bar has the same flex as the alu bar. Having said that, you've got to be really heavy to flex those bars. You sensitive dudes must be really super sensitive or extremely heavy to pick that up ?.

I'm quite light at about 150 lbs. It's a long story but generally, I'm a terrible test rider! And an insensitive husband too.

Before I even ordered the high riser bars. I had two bikes that should have had similar small bump compliance based on the wheel size and the forks. The trance and the Khs 6555e+. They both have fox floats, but no matter how I shuffled air pressures, and tire widths around, the tance was smoother on small bumbs, as long as the khs had enough air to not bottom out, it wasnt as nice as the trance.

I decided it was down to geometry with the trance being more slack, absorbing better based on fork angle. I didn't bother look harder than that. My conviction was either geometry, or Giant secret sauce in the forks, nobody else seems to notice or care until just recently.

I got bored one day, and started swapping bars around, and this was when I noticed the Gaint bars considerably more flexy than the Kore bars that came on the 6555+e. The same super small bumbs compliance I noticed on the trance could easily be transferred to the khs by simply swapping the bars and stem.

All I can say is, it must be pretty big difference for me to notice it, becuase I'm generally not that picky. I do have a poorly healed broken wrist from a football accident 35 years ago, and a perpetually sprained thumb, perhaps this increased my otherwise dull senses.

 

[Tony.OK]

I'm quite light at about 150 lbs. It's a long story but generally, I'm a terrible test rider! And an insensitive husband too.

Before I even ordered the high riser bars. I had two bikes that should have had similar small bump compliance based on the wheel size and the forks. The trance and the Khs 6555e+. They both have fox floats, but no matter how I shuffled air pressures, and tire widths around, the tance was smoother on small bumbs, as long as the khs had enough air to not bottom out, it wasnt as nice as the trance.

I decided it was down to geometry with the trance being more slack, absorbing better based on fork angle. I didn't bother look harder than that. My conviction was either geometry, or Giant secret sauce in the forks, nobody else seems to notice or care until just recently.

I got bored one day, and started swapping bars around, and this was when I noticed the Gaint bars considerably more flexy than the Kore bars that came on the 6555+e. The same super small bumbs compliance I noticed on the trance could easily be transferred to the khs by simply swapping the bars and stem.

All I can say is, it must be pretty big difference for me to notice it, becuase I'm generally not that picky. I do have a poorly healed broken wrist from a football accident 35 years ago, and a perpetually sprained thumb, perhaps this increased my otherwise dull senses.

I've been chasing setup lately too, I installed a 160mm air shaft to forks for a little extra travel at the same time as fitting my 40mm riser Renthals........have been constantly playing with spacers and fork and tyre pressures to find my original fork feel.........this "bar" feeling has now got me wondering if thats been my prob the whole time......will go back to stock ones for a test me thinks! Am thinking a 150mm fork with a 29er front may be the go to lift front instead of high rise bars......but a pricey experiment ?

 

[lona79]

Hi,
I wrote to Giant Italia and they replied that:
- they have only bars with 20mm rise
- the material is aluminium 7075

 

[Wernher]

I've been chasing setup lately too, I installed a 160mm air shaft to forks for a little extra travel at the same time as fitting my 40mm riser Renthals........have been constantly playing with spacers and fork and tyre pressures to find my original fork feel.........this "bar" feeling has now got me wondering if thats been my prob the whole time......will go back to stock ones for a test me thinks! Am thinking a 150mm fork with a 29er front may be the go to lift front instead of high rise bars......but a pricey experiment ?

The issue with 29er in front om the Trance-e is unfortunately that you have too change forks or go for a very narrow 29 and even then I'm not sure it's going to fit. In South Africa, I got the Suntour Duromax 29 which is an awesome form for a third of the price of the Fox 36 Factory. It has 4 benefits: 30mm longer axle to crown, internally adjustable from 150 to 170mm, takes a 29 inch wheel and requires no special tools. Not even special sockets. This gave me that rise that I wanted and a fantastic geometry. I kept it at 150mm and removed 1 volume spacer. It is very plush but rapids up hard with hard hits so it doesn't bottom out but gives me a nice supple ride. With this setup I can easily go back to a stock handlebar but I don't have the issue that my carbon bar is stiffer than the stock bar as the rest incidentally also pointed out. What you guys can do is try it some silicon grips of the ride is too harsh.

 

[Wernher]

I'm quite light at about 150 lbs. It's a long story but generally, I'm a terrible test rider! And an insensitive husband too.

Before I even ordered the high riser bars. I had two bikes that should have had similar small bump compliance based on the wheel size and the forks. The trance and the Khs 6555e+. They both have fox floats, but no matter how I shuffled air pressures, and tire widths around, the tance was smoother on small bumbs, as long as the khs had enough air to not bottom out, it wasnt as nice as the trance.

I decided it was down to geometry with the trance being more slack, absorbing better based on fork angle. I didn't bother look harder than that. My conviction was either geometry, or Giant secret sauce in the forks, nobody else seems to notice or care until just recently.

I got bored one day, and started swapping bars around, and this was when I noticed the Gaint bars considerably more flexy than the Kore bars that came on the 6555+e. The same super small bumbs compliance I noticed on the trance could easily be transferred to the khs by simply swapping the bars and stem.

All I can say is, it must be pretty big difference for me to notice it, becuase I'm generally not that picky. I do have a poorly healed broken wrist from a football accident 35 years ago, and a perpetually sprained thumb, perhaps this increased my otherwise dull senses.

I'm going to pass on any comments about your husbandry ?, but I guess when you ride really tough terrain, whatever weight you put on the bars gets increased by quite a bit. Actually we'll be shocked to know how much it really is, so I can understand that it will put a lot of stress on the bars. Knowing how some of the bars are quite flexible vs the more rigid ones gives one an understanding how you'll feel it on a ride. Giant makes some quality stuff (mostly) so the stock bars were probably designed with some flex built in.

 

[Wernher]

Hi,
I wrote to Giant Italia and they replied that:
- they have only bars with 20mm rise
- the material is aluminium 7075

That's the stock bars. They have a 20mm rise.

 

[Wernher]

Fitted my new stem and bars now, love it, the bike feels much better. ???


View attachment 19411

Nice, but you're going to break that phone ?