Fires

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
With parts of QLD on fire and a lot of NSW on fire at the moment. I hope everyone along with their family and friends are ok and safe. I also hope their beloved trail networks weather this fire storm ok.
Too many life’s and property damage thus far ? Stay safe out there people.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
It is an unfolding unprecedented emergency. The fact that Australia with its wealth is unprepared should be the wake up call for massive investment of that wealth.

My thoughts are with all of those in harms way. My beloved Nightcap National Park pristine beautiful rainforest is on fire and so many others places that I love.
 

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
It is an unfolding unprecedented emergency. The fact that Australia with its wealth is unprepared should be the wake up call for massive investment of that wealth.

My thoughts are with all of those in harms way. My beloved Nightcap National Park pristine beautiful rainforest is on fire and so many others places that I love.
Agreed.
NSW is copping it more than us in QLD and I know how bad it is here.
Something I don’t get is where I am, on a small 3/4 a block but close to more built up dwellings. I am not allowed to stay and fight for my home. The cops declare evacuation of all under the PSA. I have to leave, even tho I have a fire safety plan and get this, a 12,000lt water truck in the back yard, fitted with a full remote water cannon and a stand pipe hooked up to the fire main. ( basicly a fire truck)
 

RobNevyn

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Nov 19, 2018
191
169
Central Coast NSW Australia
Yeah it is nasty here in NSW for sure, all of the National Parks and trails north of Sydney to the QLD boarder are closed until tomorrow for general public safety.
I did a 6 year stint in the RFS and about 6 months before I left the state government decided to make budget cuts to the RFS so now the current fire fighters are under resourced.
With unprecedented ground fuel pretty much everywhere on the eastern seaboard and inland, this kind of fire event has been coming for 5 years. There is a lot to be said about the balance of conservation and hazard reduction burns which is a constant battle.

Here’s a crew from the North Suburbs helping out at Rainbow Flat yesterday.
 

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
Yeah it is nasty here in NSW for sure, all of the National Parks and trails north of Sydney to the QLD boarder are closed until tomorrow for general public safety.
I did a 6 year stint in the RFS and about 6 months before I left the state government decided to make budget cuts to the RFS so now the current fire fighters are under resourced.
With unprecedented ground fuel pretty much everywhere on the eastern seaboard and inland, this kind of fire event has been coming for 5 years. There is a lot to be said about the balance of conservation and hazard reduction burns which is a constant battle.

Here’s a crew from the North Suburbs helping out at Rainbow Flat yesterday.
Thanks for your efforts over the years.
 

Rusty

E*POWAH BOSS
Jul 17, 2019
1,513
1,673
New Zealand
I have to leave, even tho I have a fire safety plan and get this, a 12,000lt water truck in the back yard, fitted with a full remote water cannon and a stand pipe hooked up to the fire main. ( basicly a fire truck)
I feel your pain dude. Have been through this as a kid back home in SoCal. Dad had about 100k gallons in our pond/lagoon and another 45-50k gallons in our swimming pool - with diesel pumps and water canons, but we were evacuated at gunpoint after we refused to go on our own.
House also had an exterior spray system designed to stop issues with embers. After that dad ditched California for good - sick of all the liberals taking over and making rules and laws 'for the greater good' - regardless that they were designed for idiots.
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
13,791
20,481
Brittany, France
It's incredibly sad to see. Wouldn't want to be those guys driving through it, good to see they were hosing the vehicles off though. Read about the Koala sanctuary which was destroyed :(:cry:

They have the opposite problem in the UK, and we're incredibly wet here in northern France :

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50357074

Interesting that they included a photo from the international @outerlimits , all seated, murky waffle stomping competition - complete with official waffle backed chairs at Waffle Stomper Lodge.

waffle stomp.jpg
 
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steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,389
8,618
Lincolnshire, UK
I remember an example of the law of unintended consequences. I won't have all the names and places correct, but I'm sure our friends in the USA will remember it.

Local environmentalists successfully campaigned to stop preventive burning of forest areas. The preventive burning was to burn off the scrub at ground level, not to burn the actual trees. The trees could easily survive a small fire with a ground level fuel load of less than 10 tons per acre. Years passed and the wildlife that lived in the scrub and the forest floor thrived. "Success!" cried the environmentalists.
Then a forest fire started. This time, the ground level fuel load was 40 tons per acre. This was sufficient to generate a much hotter and longer lasting fire. All the trees caught fire and were totally destroyed. All the below-ground nesting animals that could previously survive a low level fire, didn't. It was a disaster. Not only was all the wildlife killed off but the heat penetrated deeper underground and the insects and the invertebrates were killed too. The burned area was very much greater than had happened before.

Have I got that about right? :unsure:
 

Swissrob

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2018
326
298
Switzerland
I remember an example of the law of unintended consequences. I won't have all the names and places correct, but I'm sure our friends in the USA will remember it.

Local environmentalists successfully campaigned to stop preventive burning of forest areas. The preventive burning was to burn off the scrub at ground level, not to burn the actual trees. The trees could easily survive a small fire with a ground level fuel load of less than 10 tons per acre. Years passed and the wildlife that lived in the scrub and the forest floor thrived. "Success!" cried the environmentalists.
Then a forest fire started. This time, the ground level fuel load was 40 tons per acre. This was sufficient to generate a much hotter and longer lasting fire. All the trees caught fire and were totally destroyed. All the below-ground nesting animals that could previously survive a low level fire, didn't. It was a disaster. Not only was all the wildlife killed off but the heat penetrated deeper underground and the insects and the invertebrates were killed too. The burned area was very much greater than had happened before.

Have I got that about right? :unsure:
Yes. Australia in the 80s, climate change is the issue with recent fires despite government denial it's happening.
 

Rusty

E*POWAH BOSS
Jul 17, 2019
1,513
1,673
New Zealand
Have I got that about right? :unsure:
Spot on @steve_sordy - several of my school friends and guys I used to race against worked for the USFS or BLM. Sadly both of those organizations became left-wing nutter societies and now forests are left to do their natural thing.
Not that doing things natural is all bad as fire is how forests restore and renew. However, back in the day before areas became populated we didn't have deer throwing away empty coke bottles, bear flicking a lit cigarette butt out the window or raccoons letting their BBQ fire get away on them.

With the most dangerous animal out there over-populating the world we need methods to contain wild fires that are more often than not caused by us.
 

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
It's incredibly sad to see. Wouldn't want to be those guys driving through it, good to see they were hosing the vehicles off though. Read about the Koala sanctuary which was destroyed :(:cry:

They have the opposite problem in the UK, and we're incredibly wet here in northern France :

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50357074

Interesting that they included a photo from the international @outerlimits , all seated, murky waffle stomping competition - complete with official waffle backed chairs at Waffle Stomper Lodge.

View attachment 21435
It always seems to be the case, when we are in drought and impacted by fire, your part of the world has wet, and flood.
@steve_sordy, yeah that’s about the sum of it, over here too.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,389
8,618
Lincolnshire, UK
My brother lives in Brisbane and I went to see him last year in April. We went out for the day to visit a large lake (no idea where). As we were crossing a bridge above a deep ravine, I commented on how deep it was. He replied that recently (year before, year before that?), the floods not only came up to the bridge, but above it so far that all you could see was water to the horizon!!! As I looked around I was thinking in biblical terms, Noah's Ark etc. Wow.

When we got back to his house in Brisbane, which was near the top of a hill in Augustine Heights, he showed me all the flood protection that had been built in to the area. Big gutters on the road edges, drain holes so large you could slide down them, massive gullies to take the rainfall, huge soak away areas, and balancing lakes (dry in the Summer). I hadn't noticed before, but once it was pointed out, it was very impressive.
And yet they get droughts! Or used to do so (had one for 20 years), the Queenslanders are building reservoirs now, partly to capture the rain to stop flooding, but also to reduce droughts.

His sons told me that if you get drunk and pass out face up outside in the rain, you will drown. I suspect a wind-up, but I can see how it would be a close run thing. My godson emigrated to Sydney a few years ago and he visits his uncle and cousins in Brisbane regularly . He told me that he has tried standing outside in the rain when it is really coming down and he found it difficult to breathe. :eek:
 

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
My brother lives in Brisbane and I went to see him last year in April. We went out for the day to visit a large lake (no idea where). As we were crossing a bridge above a deep ravine, I commented on how deep it was. He replied that recently (year before, year before that?), the floods not only came up to the bridge, but above it so far that all you could see was water to the horizon!!! As I looked around I was thinking in biblical terms, Noah's Ark etc. Wow.

When we got back to his house in Brisbane, which was near the top of a hill in Augustine Heights, he showed me all the flood protection that had been built in to the area. Big gutters on the road edges, drain holes so large you could slide down them, massive gullies to take the rainfall, huge soak away areas, and balancing lakes (dry in the Summer). I hadn't noticed before, but once it was pointed out, it was very impressive.
And yet they get droughts! Or used to do so (had one for 20 years), the Queenslanders are building reservoirs now, partly to capture the rain to stop flooding, but also to reduce droughts.

His sons told me that if you get drunk and pass out face up outside in the rain, you will drown. I suspect a wind-up, but I can see how it would be a close run thing. My godson emigrated to Sydney a few years ago and he visits his uncle and cousins in Brisbane regularly . He told me that he has tried standing outside in the rain when it is really coming down and he found it difficult to breathe. :eek:
It’s a land of extremes for sure. 2011 was the really really big floods in QLD and Brisbane. We had suffered through drought for years before that. We have had a few floods since then, tho NSW has been in drought for a few years now, and Western QLD has also been in drought. Australia is a large place and when it’s hot it’s fn hot, and when it’s wet, it’s fn wet. It’s really hard to manage given the size of the country. At the moment we have over 50 fires burning in QLD, mostly in the southern 1/3 of the state. Over 70 burning in NSW and temps in those areas aproching and above 49deg C. Just to the south of NSW, in Victoria and Tasmania, it’s snowing, and it’s spring, not even Summer yet.

Couple of pics for reference.

50AFAEAB-833E-4FA1-A8F3-6B339F0A395D.jpeg


7363A99D-9FE1-483E-9A01-36967DE05600.png
 

Pdoz

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Feb 16, 2019
1,112
1,206
Maffra Victoria Australia
Interesting article for those who think the greens are responsible

Factcheck: Is there really a green conspiracy to stop bushfire hazard reduction?

For what it's worth, I don't have a green agenda but am very much cynical about " controlled burns" . Two years back we had a fire race through an area that was recovering from the burn 2 years earlier. It was hotter and faster than anyone predicted and the theory was new growth changed the fire behaviour. Started by a lightning strike in the previously burnt area.

Quite frankly, I wish the politicians could put their agendas aside and let the heros get on with the long job ahead.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Interesting article for those who think the greens are responsible

Factcheck: Is there really a green conspiracy to stop bushfire hazard reduction?

For what it's worth, I don't have a green agenda but am very much cynical about " controlled burns" . Two years back we had a fire race through an area that was recovering from the burn 2 years earlier. It was hotter and faster than anyone predicted and the theory was new growth changed the fire behaviour. Started by a lightning strike in the previously burnt area.

Quite frankly, I wish the politicians could put their agendas aside and let the heros get on with the long job ahead.
The only rightful agenda is the truth.

The same people that defunded the Rural Fire Service are now blaming the ‘greenies’ for the ‘green tape’ which prevented them from saving the rainforest.

Cuts in this year's budget here in NSW amounted to the equivalent of the annual salary of 488 qualified firefighters - instead of increasing expenditure by the same amount - or many multiples more invested would have been intelligent. A few thousand qualified firefighters and equipment would have been kinda handy right now.
 

Rusty

E*POWAH BOSS
Jul 17, 2019
1,513
1,673
New Zealand
The only rightful agenda is the truth.

The same people that defunded the Rural Fire Service are now blaming the ‘greenies’ for the ‘green tape’ which prevented them from saving the rainforest.

Cuts in this year's budget here in NSW amounted to the equivalent of the annual salary of 488 qualified firefighters - instead of increasing expenditure by the same amount - or many multiples more invested would have been intelligent. A few thousand qualified firefighters and equipment would have been kinda handy right now.

Pesronally I would much rather see salaries cut for the 76 Senators and budget cuts for their staff. Oh, and salary cuts to the 151 MPs and their staff.
 

outerlimits

E*POWAH BOSS
Founding Member
Feb 3, 2018
1,241
1,574
Australia
Pesronally I would much rather see salaries cut for the 76 Senators and budget cuts for their staff. Oh, and salary cuts to the 151 MPs and their staff.
Yep, you never here them complaining they are under staffed or under resourced. They only complain when they have been caught with their snout in the trough.
 

Rusty

E*POWAH BOSS
Jul 17, 2019
1,513
1,673
New Zealand
I'm a Kiwi American - or is that American Kiwi?
In NZ there are 120 MPs - all with staff sizes 30-50% larger than they need to be. Get rid of the fat there and cut MP numbers to a far more realistic 80 or 90 and there would be way more funding for where it is needed.
America with 100 senators and 435 representatives (sic) - all with massive staff numbers) is exactly the same. Probably get by with 1 Senator per state and maybe 300sh representatives (as long as those actually represent the people and not themselves).
California, which is much like NSW in Australia and seriously hit with fires has a legistature that is and has been disfunctional for decades. Far too many finge special-interest groups have sway over how government land is managed. They don't want motorcycles, ATV, offroad, horses, MTBs of any type and in some caes even hikers to be allowed in some areas.
That needs to stop and sensible land management practices put into place.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
The air quality all along the NSW coast has been into the red zone & beyond for over a week now. Of most concern PM2.5 and smaller particulates. So much so that it seems I now need a mask to ride any bike anywhere even riding trails here in a very small town.

Any suggestions, mask, bandanna, wet hankie, give up, harden up? Don’t like the sound of any of them really. Maybe Respro Ultralight?


E2A6BB86-2920-4C72-824F-2484093A062C.jpeg

1574129140732.jpeg
 
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wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Unfortunately I have to say riding with the mask even if it fits & works as designed is not the answer. Given the dangerous air quality that has now been ongoing for months over such a wide area here, riding a bike of any description has become extremely hazardous to outright harmful.

What’s the solution? Surely technological? A respirator built into the bike?? Purifier bubble??? Auto nasal douche???? Sadly not. The only solution is not to ride. How depressing is that? It’ll blow away they say. A few months at the most. The fires? They’ll be out when we get flooding rain. That’s so likely. Then it’s back to business as usual. That’s the scariest part.

And now I realise that my 'problem' of not being able to ride my bike is nothing compared to the anguish, pain, sickness & loss of so many others. Not wanting to bring politics here but failure has never been more obvious.
 
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RobNevyn

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Nov 19, 2018
191
169
Central Coast NSW Australia
May not be the smartest thing to do but I have been riding on and off of the last couple weeks anyway. I skipped last week as the air quality was just ridiculous but nothing I haven't been in before when on the fire-ground.

Some more video & pics of what the current firefighters have been battling over the last few weeks.
Imgur Gallery
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
I was thinking of going to Hawaii to escape - but the smoke lifted off us here today thankfully.
I hope it doesn't come back.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Eight people killed including 2 volunteer firefighters.
750 or more homes in ashes.
3 million hectares of land burned — more than the last three fire seasons combined and larger than the entire country of Wales.
Gondwana rainforests thousands of years old - carbon sinks in a negative feedback loop previously absorbing now producing.
2000 koalas perished and many corridors of precious habitat lost forever.
Sydney encircled, mega fires up & down the coast.
Millions of people exposed to PM2.5 for over a month.

That’s just New South Wales.

I don’t know what the toll is in other states - it would be truly agonising to tally but, cities & towns all over the country are running critically short of water, millions of hectares of national park & bush incinerated, major cities choking on hazardous air, the resulting physical and mental health of millions very seriously damaged, while South Australia and Victoria have severe energy shortages in addition to growing catastrophic fires at risk of becoming mega fires like the one encircling Sydney.


And yet we have 70,000 heroic unpaid volunteer rural firefighters with insufficient and mostly antiquated equipment backed up by infinitely smaller professional firefighting services in the cities and only 1 or 2 medium sized firefighting aircraft currently operating.

We need to properly equip & pay the volunteer firefighters.
Establish professional rapid response firefighting forces that can extinguish outbreaks before they become complex and out of control conflagrations. Hot shots, smokejumpers and helitacks.
Fleets of heavy or super heavy firefighting tankers.
Join Costa Rica, Iceland, New Zealand and Norway in their highly ambitious yet absolutely achievable transitions to carbon neutrality.
And so much more.
 

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