(E)MTB riding causing shoulder impingement like pain?

[Enzo Maiorca]

Hi everyone,

About two months ago I bought an ebike (Specialised turbo Levo) and started riding - a lot! In a month or so I developed a shoulder impingement like pain which gets worse each time I’m riding the bike. Otherwise I’m are weightlifter and never had a single problem with my shoulders. Has this happened to any one of you guys?Any suggestions besides the sit set up? As I’ve really grown to like the electric bike and riding it, it would be so horrible if I would have to sell it because of the shoulder issues. Many thanks in advance!!!

 

[Gary]

Are you new to mountainbiking in general?
If you're a long time weightlifter I guess your muscles and flexibilty are well trained towards certain movements?
Mountainbiking is a little more dynamic so it could be as simple as a mismatch in the muscle groups and flexibility required?

Any suggestions besides the sit set up?

Sit less and move around the bike more would be my advice. Far too many new riders sit down and ride with bad position/form. and from what I see on the trails many Ebike riders seem to be even worse for doing this
But control point, bar position and roll and can make a massive difference to control and comfort.

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Many thanks!

Are you new to mountainbiking in general?
But control point, bar position and roll and can make a massive difference to control and comfort.

I am a seasoned weightlifter (between advanced and expert), working not just strength but also agility, mobillity, however I am new to mountain biking (I used to ride my twenty something years old 26" mountain bike but between 500 and 1000 kilometers/year. What I am wondering is also the size - I am 182 but the frame size is XL - so I am mainly leaning on the bars.

Cheers!

 

[Gary]

Specialized Levo's are not particularly long in reach by modern standards but in comparison to a 20 year old 26" wheel bike the difference will be huge.
I'm a tiny bit shorter than you and somewhat old skool in my bike sizing preferences and although I could ride an XL I'd be far happier on a L Levo
it's just a preference though.

I am mainly leaning on the bars.

you shouldn't be so much as leaning your upper body ON the bars as weighting the bars when required and using your core and hips to hold your torso in position.
This is true whatever the size but riding long(er) modern bikes does take a slighty different technique to and older steeper and shorter bike.
try riding in a strong standing position with your weight from your hips and torso more through the pedals than leaning on the bars and see if this helps relieve your shoulder pain. Standing a lot more than you currently do now should train your body to adapt.

 

[Konanige]

Is the pain more acute when going down steep rocky and rooty stuff where more of your weight is put through your shoulders?

 

[Mikerb]

Whilst I hesitate to say it, over development of certain muscles in the shoulders can lead to a reduction in flexibility and that might be part of your problem. It is also the case that bar width can make the difference between comparatively weak muscles on the shoulder being used when pushing or pulling on the bars rather than the larger muscle groups in your back. You can do your own experiment pulling on the bars with your hands on the grips and then progressively moved inward to see at what point you cease to use back muscle and instead rely on shoulder muscle.
You may also have a position on the bike that puts too much of your weight over the bars. That can be modified using a variety of slight changes to stem length, the number of spacers above and below the stem, the rise and sweep of the bars.
I suggest you start by checking your ideal bar width and cutting your bars accordingly. Many bars are 800mm as standard........most common bar widths are somewhere between that and 760.
Then stand on the pedals in the ready position and see how well centred your weight is over the bb..........and how much is being propped up through your arms on the bars. Modify your cockpit accordingly.
The final thing to mention is that an overly stiff fork can give your hands wrist and shoulders some punishment..............more especially if you do not ride with elbows bent to provide some shock absorbtion.

 

[Pdoz]

Some video ( or even pictures) of you riding will help a lot - we could be talking anything from helmet peak to how you tie the laces on your shoes, tyre pressures of lever adjustment.

( shoulders are a stupid design.....)

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Thanks for further suggestions. The pain always appears only after the ride, so it's really hard to say what exactly is cousing it. It seems a bit easier if I move my hands inwards the bar (indeed the bar is very wide) - but that is just my filling. Indeed the posture could be contributing to the problem - here is a short (saddly the only one I got) clip of me riding: New video by Domen Božeglav and a photo with at least approximate posture. Many thanks for any further thoughts!

 

[Pdoz]

A couple of things to try from that image / video

1 consider a back pack to suit your height - one that carries the weight on your hips instead of shoulders?

2 relax, On that short video, you look like a scared tripod with arms locked out at the edge of the bars. If you're getting shoulder issues, forget all the you tube videos telling you to attack the bike. Assume a relaxed, balanced posture with your weight on the pegs and arms ready to punch input into the bike but not necessarily doing a push up. Try doing a down hill with just your finger tips holding the bars to understand what I'm trying to say. Then remember to keep your elbows a bit bent instead of licked, chill out and relax

3 if all that fails, consider a shorter stem or bringing the bars back a bit. This long reach long / low modern thing doesn't suit everyone.

 

[Pdoz]

Ps the above advice is based on the cumulative knowledge of n frkin idea, having made pretty much every possible riding mistake I'm really good at knowing what to do wrong....and what hurts when.

 

[RickBullotta]

Probably a bike fit issue. If the bike fits you overall (for your height), you can adjust the cockpit dimensions with stem and bar options. Easy and cheap fix. Also, try some active scapular range of motion exercises - 10 reps both directions, and do them full range. It may help quite a bit. Watch a video for proper technique - if you lift weights, you know the importance of good technique!

 

[Sparky DH]

No doctor here and completely assuming but is it normal from the above photo, the arms are so straight? Maybe a slightly different handlebar rotation as well including stem setup? I'm in my 40's so I'm taking the ergonomics approach on my DH bike and still throw carbon bars to reduce further vibration which probably won't hurt outside ergonomic grips...

 

[B1rdie]

You could try narrowing the handlebars or one with more rise and shorter stems.
And body position with bent elbows, relaxed shoulders ( keep then far from the ears as they say in yoga) and use more of the core muscles to keep light hands and heavy feet (search Lee likes bikes).

 

[Gary]

It's instantly noticeable from the video that you ride extremely stiff.

 

[paske]

It looks that your wrists are bent to much to the front of the bike and therefore you will have to "force" with your fingers to use brakes and gear lever. Plus all your weight is taken by the wrists.
I think your wrists must be in the same alignment (no angle) than your arms and so the brakes if you see what I mean...?

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Hi everyone, first I would like to again sincerely thank every one of you for this help - a lot to think about and work on. Identifing that I am doing something wrong fills me with optimism since it could be (with time and prectice) potentially solved

Keep up the fantastic rides!!!!

 

[Mikerb]

Well the good news is the size of the bike looks fine for you. The video clip is quite revealing in terms of your riding style. The bike was hopping all over the place and you were forcing the bike into the ground..not letting it breathe beneath you....as a result you were a passenger and likely to get beaten up by it!!
In terms of set up, your shoulders look quite narrow so cutting the bars down a little will probably help. Apart from that ( as stated above) you need to relax your shoulders, bend your elbows, knees bent outwards...not inwards ( its a bike not a horse!). Arrange your bars and brakes so that your wrists are straight.........you only sink your wrists when on the back of the bike and braking hard. You also look to be riding with your feet too far back on the pedals ( on your toes) Move back to just behind the ball of you foot so you can rotate the pedal both forward and backward to change your weight distribution on the bike as needed. Just maintain core strength whilst letting your shoulders, legs, arms and waist be flexible to let the bike breathe and to move your mass forward, back and side to side as required by changes in the trail.

 

[Calsun]

I had a severe injury to my neck that resulted in vertigo. Went to several PT types and finally found a chiropractor experienced with ACT (active release technique) and with two 30 minute sessions the vertigo was gone. A nerve impingement was affected the nerves going to the inner ear.

With long distance cycling I had to learn to consciously relax my shoulders to avoid pain the next day. If I take a break from cycling I have to relearn to do this.

 

[Jeff McD]

Hey Enzo, just saw this thread today for the first time. I have to agree with Gary that in that video your arms are absolutely straight and too stiff which could very definitely cause impingement of shoulder tendons anteriorly. First of all, have you ever had an injury in that shoulder in the past? That may predispose you to pain if the bike fit is not good.

However, I believe that bike does not fit your body properly. Your arms are extended straight forward and locked which is not correct and could either be due to a handlebar that is too close to you or too far away. Was the stock OEM stem changed to a shorter or longer one?

Proper bike fit would give you more of a bend in your waist, with the elbows more flexed and pointing outwards, and the torso down lower, allowing your bent arms to absorb more of the trail vibrations and impacts. A different length of stem might accomplish this for you. Perhaps you could borrow one from a friend or from the local bike shop's rental bike fleet stems (they keep a whole bunch of different sizes to put on rental bikes for different customers) to try on your bike for one ride and see how it feels. If you do this please remember to tighten all of the stem-to-handlebar bolts securely before riding so you don't have a terrible accident.

Do you have a friend who could advise you on proper bike fit? If not I would strongly suggest that you Google videos that demonstrate how to achieve proper bike fit and make the changes you need.

Are you a generally very stiff athlete? Not trying to insult you but some people are naturally extremely stiff. If so you must google the "attack position" for mountain biking and practice riding your bike with this accentuated position to work on staying loose. Especially the knees elbows and hips should always be loose to be able to react to any input from the trail. Never ride with a death grip on the handlebars as well.

Actually, what we really need to evaluate this is for you to get a friend to shoot a video of you riding by him from the side rather than from head-on. That would give a better indication of your fit on the bike. Try that and let us see. Otherwise we are just guessing.

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Many thanks for this! No shoulder injury however I am indeed very stiff and will have to work more on mobility exercises (in general) in the future. Bike is second hand, but should be OEM (previous owner only rode it for 300km).

I'll try to ask one of my colleagues to film the side view and will be happy to get the evaluation

Cheers!!!!

 

[Jeff McD]

Mobility exercises are generally just no fun, except in recent times a better technique has appeared and I would highly recommend it to you. I'm just plain lazy and hate to put in the time with strengthening and stretching but it is necessary in the sport. So I want the quickest technique possible. For stretching there is one technique called active release or the more technical term proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation. You can Google this but basically let's say you want to stretch your calf muscles. You stand on a step and let the heals sink down as far as they will go, then mildly engage the calf muscles in a contraction for five seconds followed instantaneously by a 3-5 second relaxation stretch of achilles/calf muscles with knees bent, and repeat this cycle three or four times and you're done. Move onto the next area to stretch.

This is more effective achieving a greater stretch in the end than long stretches for 30 to 60 seconds and gets over with quicker. Longer stretches are just not as effective because after stretching beyond 3-5 seconds the Golgi apparatus in the muscle cell will activate and prevent any further stretch unless you contract the muscle. What happens is there is a natural release that happens after contracting a muscle mildly for 5 seconds that blocks out the Golgi apparatus and allows a greater stretch. This is how ballerinas can do the splits. They'll spend a long time at the bar gradually ratcheting that leg higher and higher using this technique.

For mountain biking you want to the stretch the achilles, hamstrings, hip flexors, lower back muscles and posterior cervical muscles add a minimum. I try to do a few of these every day gently. You don't have to contract the muscles hard, just engage them mildly and then suddenly release. It's quite gratifying how quickly they will stretch out using this technique. I was never able to stretch my tight hamstrings effectively with prolonged stretches but it works with this technique. I tend to be tight also so I really work on this. Tight athletes just have to accept that they will never ever really be loose and have to just keep working at it to maintain at least some flexibility. And that's good enough usually. Hope this helps.

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Indeed, stretching is not fun at all I try to consistantly perform active 5 minute stretching routine in the morning (dynamic V-sits, dynamic downward dog and cobra, dynamic spine extension and easy bridge). I try to avoid longer stretches alltogether and focus on 3-5 second intervals. Additionaly I am slowly incorporating foam rolling - this is something I have been doing for only 3 weeks so can't tell whether it is good or bad, but so far, at least imediate feedback is fantastic (I have a short and longer routine). Before weightlifting I used to do only 10 minutes stationary bike ride, to get the core temperature up, but will try to incorporate additonal (quick) roller and dynamic routine, besices addinge more warm-up sets before big lifts.
For now what I'am additionaly trying to do is to strengthen rotator calf muscles but will have to eventually see the doctor to at least know what's cousing the pain and act accordingly ... Keep you updated in case someone can benefit from my learnings
Cheers!

 

[sparked]

You could start by adjusting the angle of your handlebars and see how they feel. I had to do this as I have impingement in both shoulders. I've had decompression surgery on the left and the right shoulder I manage with mobility and pilates. Not exciting but I'm painfree.

On my EMTB I've put on 40mm riser carbon bars and they made a huge difference. But mostly I need to relax. I find I hunch my shoulders upwards and tense up, which is not great for shoulders. I'm pretty much pain free now - love riding my bikes!

Here's a video to help you work out how to roll your bars if you want to play around

 

[Mikerb]

The amount of rise on the bars will have little impact on stress on the shoulder muscles, whereas the width of the bar will. With the push and pull on the bars there is a specific width of your arm spread at which small and relatively weak shoulders muscles do most of the work. Reducing that spread moves the forces to the trapezium muscles.........reduce further and the force moves mainly to the Lats. Obviously those specific widths of arm spread vary from person to person according to body shape but if shoulders are getting sore it may be that the bars are too wide for you.
A lot of bars come standard at 800mm now but with markings to enable them to be reduced in length. To avoid the immediate need to cut bars but be able to see if reduced bar width helps, a simple test is merely to move the brake levers etc further inboard and use a pair of cheap grips without ends so they can be mounted inboard from the ends of the bars. You can then ride with hands/grips positioned at say 760 width , and then at 780 etc. As you reduce the width, steering will become faster and you have a little less leverage. So if steering becomes "twitchy" that width may be too short for your bike.
I am 183cm/79kg but with comparatively long legs and shorter torso. I run 765 on my trial bike and 780 on my enduro bike. Both bars were originally 800mm.

 

[Enzo Maiorca]

Hi, everyone, just a short update on adapting my bike and ride to the shoulder pain. Indeed I have tried a narrower bar – first with just moving the brakes inside, and later on cutting the bar from 800 to 750. It seems a minimal intervention but seems to be much friendlier on my shoulder. Additionally I am extremely careful when riding the bike – when going down I try to stand up, stabilize my torso (core) and have the hands unlocked – making sure the bike is able to move as much as possible under me. Also shifting into braking with one finger enabled me to hold the bar with one additional finger (the grip in general is now much lighter). Here is me trying – still far from perfect but hopefully getting away from “scared tripod” driving mode J

New video by Domen Božeglav

I still have the pain (seen the doctor->impingement) but the bike seems not to impact the pain. Will keep you posted …

 

[Mikerb]

Well done...looks a lot better. Your legs and elbows are slightly bent which is good....you could maybe relax them a bit...make them work like shock absorbers.
It is only a slight curve coming out of that trail onto the fire road but noticeable that you "steered" the bike through it.........try leaning the bike over ( in this case the top tube pushed across towards your left leg) whilst you stay up and over the bike, right pedal down. You will find you get more grip especially on tighter turns than that but it also encourages you to move the bike left and right beneath you.
Good news the bar reduction has stopped aggravating your shoulders. If you already have impingement it will take a few weeks to resolve and riding the bike with your new set up sounds like it will do no further harm.