Decoy love was great while it lasted....


Jeffsy29

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May 6, 2020
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Rockville MD
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Sadly - Just 10 minutes into my 2nd Decoy ride I took a bad spill at speed (either a pedal strike or bar end nicked a tree) and I went down hard on my R shoulder. Honestly, I can't even remember how it happened it was really quick. I shook it off and got to a safer portion of the trail....not the first time I've gone too-hard, too-fast thinking I'm an invincible bad-ass on my NEW bike. Couldn't really raise my arm much, but I could lean on it and felt comfortable on the bars. I've JUST started riding...no way I wanted to quit. The bike seemed ok other than a mild 3-4 shift issue and needing a little tightening up the headset. So what did I do? You guessed it... I kept riding another 10 miles (dumb and risky I realize now). Had a great ride and shoulder pain wasn't horrible.

But, trying to lift this 50 lb bike up onto my hitch-rack....ooouch. Got it on mostly left-handed, but even getting my arm up on the steering wheel was a challenge. It just got worse from there as I discovered the next few days I'd torn 2 of the 4 rotator cuff ligaments off the humeral head. Likely injured the 3rd RC ligament and upper bicep tendon.

Just bought an indoor trainer to hook up to my street bike so I don't become 300 lbs by the time I'm allowed to ride again. Surgery in a week or so, then a loooooong recovery to follow.

My favorite Covid-pastime is now off limits for a few months. It's so sad looking at the Decoy in the corner, all juiced up/green-light and ready to ride. What a shame!

Anyone have a similar RC injury/surgery in the past? How long did you take until you allowed yourself on a bike? I'm thinking stationary, then street bike, then graduate back to MTB.
 

steve_sordy

The Wizard 🧙‍♂️
Nov 5, 2018
3,805
343
Grantham, UK
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Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
Not a rotator cuff injury thankfully, but still ligament damage. I trapped one of the ligaments that go from the upper arm under the shoulder blade and on towards the spine. I could not raise my right arm above elbow height without first weakness, then pain. The physio took 20 mins of faffing about to make her diagnosis, before making a final and conclusive test. She told me to raise my right arm out horizontally in front of me (struggle). The she placed her hand lightly on top of mine and said "I'm going to press lightly, I want you to resist". She pressed and I ended up on the floor! She was delighted as it was a classic example of its kind! Laid on the floor , I had a different perspective. She then gave me a bollocking for leaving it so long before coming to see her. Resistance was indeed futile.

But the treatment had me 100% within two weeks!! That was after 3 months of me carrying an injury and unable to properly ride the bike, although I did! Lesson learned. :)

I hope that your treatment proves to be as unexpectedly beneficial. :)
 
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Jeffsy29

New Member
May 6, 2020
89
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Rockville MD
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Jeffsy29 for now
@steve_sordy - RC damage is common in the population and we can all be walking around with micro-tears we simply put up with out of lack of diagnosis or outright pain. Did you get an MRI? Sounds very similar to my case but if it was trapped, maybe that causes the same issue.

I'm already looking ahead and wondering how to future-protect that shoulder at minimum. Do you use a brace/support?

I've been looking at these below. Any experience with them?
  • EVS Sports SB04 Shoulder Brace
  • Demon United X D3O
  • Leatt
  • Shoulder Brace
 

steve_sordy

The Wizard 🧙‍♂️
Nov 5, 2018
3,805
343
Grantham, UK
Ride
Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
@steve_sordy - RC damage is common in the population and we can all be walking around with micro-tears we simply put up with out of lack of diagnosis or outright pain. Did you get an MRI? Sounds very similar to my case but if it was trapped, maybe that causes the same issue.

I'm already looking ahead and wondering how to future-protect that shoulder at minimum. Do you use a brace/support?

I've been looking at these below. Any experience with them?..........
No MRI; the physio was very confident with her diagnosis. No shoulder brace either. I had to learn how to flex my shoulder blade outwards to relieve the pressure on the ligament. Apparently, ligaments have a poor blood supply and don't heal quickly. Because it was rubbing on the shoulder blade it never got chance to heal. Once I was able to walk about with my shoulder blade flexed outwards, the problem went away quite quickly. It was a trick that had to be learned, but works well. The physio told me that because I'd been doing Pilates for so long (about ten years at that time) I was more in tune with my body and could do what was required with my shoulder blade more readily than is usual. Who knew! :)
 

Jeffsy29

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May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
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Jeffsy29 for now
i hope you get better fast but
What about the bike? is it ok?
Not sure if this is for me or Steve, but the Decoy seemed ok other than an odd shifting issue between 3-4 (up or down) for the remainder of the ride. Then heard some clunking which turned out to be a loose headset which I tightened 1/2 way through the ride and fine since. I literally think the bike came through without a scratch (even in glossy 'black magic'). Me, not so much....
 

KeithR

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Subscriber
Jul 1, 2020
459
113
60
Blyth, Northumberland
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Turbo Levo Comp.
I've always put this down to my incompetence... So it could just be injury related.. I do have along term shoulder injury/pain... Ah, I feel so much better about my riding. 😁
I've been struggling with something called Shoulder Impingement Syndrome for almost a year. Seems to be on the mend now, but it has been surprisingly debilitating, cramping my ability to do many of the things I enjoy doing.

It's only when a shoulder goes wrong that you realise how important it is to things that don't obviously rely on a working shoulder (I can't pop up the front of my bike for love nor money, so I'm unable to rider anything like as hard as I would otherwise do), so my sympathies to the OP and everyone else on the thread carrying a shoulder problem.
 

Jeffsy29

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May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
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Jeffsy29 for now
I've been struggling with something called Shoulder Impingement Syndrome for almost a year. Seems to be on the mend now, but it has been surprisingly debilitating, cramping my ability to do many of the things I enjoy doing.

It's only when a shoulder goes wrong that you realise how important it is to things that don't obviously rely on a working shoulder (I can't pop up the front of my bike for love nor money, so I'm unable to rider anything like as hard as I would otherwise do), so my sympathies to the OP and everyone else on the thread carrying a shoulder problem.
Impingement can lead to tears. If you've not already worked with a PT on this, the exercises aren't complicated and can help reverse our natural slumping from computer use/posture, etc. These PT fellas have a channel that might help you too:
 

KeithR

Active member
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Jul 1, 2020
459
113
60
Blyth, Northumberland
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Turbo Levo Comp.
Impingement can lead to tears. If you've not already worked with a PT on this, the exercises aren't complicated and can help reverse our natural slumping from computer use/posture, etc. These PT fellas have a channel that might help you too:
Yeah, I've followed "Bob & Brad - the best physical therapists on the internet (in our opinion)" since I first presented with the problem.

Unfortunately, even now I've got such limited movement in my left shoulder (which might suggest it's not just SI) that I still can't do exercises like the one in that video - I can still barely get my straightened arm above shoulder height (and it hurts like a bugger to try), so that exercise remains impossible.

I've got most of the strength back though, the pain is much diminished for the most part, and the stability is much improved (no more tremor, so I can wave my heavy wildlife photography lenses around again) so I'm getting there, and it looks like I'll be able to avoid surgery.

This makes a useful point in the context of folks like yourself, who have actually suffered an injury - even an idiopathic condition like mine can take a long time to heal, so injuries like yours are best not considered a trivial part of the price of admission into biking.

Not suggesting you've ever done that, but it's so easy to think that we'll bounce back, and that a shoulder SNAFU won't be that bad.

In fact, it can be a game-changer, and definitely best avoided.
 

Mabman

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
311
173
Oregon USA
It happens, seems like you are on to PT which is the key to early release from shoulder injury I have found out twice.

If your bike is truly "juiced up" to go meaning the battery is full you might want to hook it up to the trainer to bleed it down to 70% and check it again in a month to make sure it hasn't gone below 50% so the battery doesn't need PT when you are ready to go back.
 
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bigwaves311

New Member
Jun 8, 2020
10
3
Southern CA
Ride
2017 Turbo Levo
Man! i did the same thing not to long ago, but being younger (33) i tried to live with it and see if it would heal. After 3 grueling months I finally got my butt to physical therapy where i was told i tore tendons in the back of my left rotator cuff. I'm now 8 weeks in with lifting and stretching 3-5lb weights and i would say its about 75% healed up. I went from not being able to reach up to grab salt from the cabinet to being back on my bike and swimming. We actually hit the local bike park yesterday (skypark) and was able to ride all day and have fun (with lots of caution). The most important thing is to stick with the PT exercises and absolutely stop any motions that generate sharp acute pains. It is also VERY important to see the PT weekly and communicate with them every couple days to make sure your are doing the exercises right at home or if there is any throbbing/ swelling. It absolutely sucks doing a week of exercises wrong and having them tell you it did not help or worse set you back. If any one is suffering from injuries in So-Cal i highly recommend Evolution Fitness, they were able to get my out of network insurance to cover the costs and its only $35 a visit which is way cheaper than the other places i went to when i hurt my neck/ right shoulder (surfing accident).

Screenshot-084650.png
 

ziscwg

Member
Sep 18, 2019
74
68
US
Not sure if this is for me or Steve, but the Decoy seemed ok other than an odd shifting issue between 3-4 (up or down) for the remainder of the ride. Then heard some clunking which turned out to be a loose headset which I tightened 1/2 way through the ride and fine since. I literally think the bike came through without a scratch (even in glossy 'black magic'). Me, not so much....
I was referring to the OP injured here. glad the bike is ok. No one likes a sick duck. You just take it easy and get well.
 
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HORSPWR

E*POWAH Master
May 23, 2019
688
203
Alice Springs, Australia
Ride
Merida e160 900e
Sadly - Just 10 minutes into my 2nd Decoy ride I took a bad spill at speed (either a pedal strike or bar end nicked a tree) and I went down hard on my R shoulder. Honestly, I can't even remember how it happened it was really quick. I shook it off and got to a safer portion of the trail....not the first time I've gone too-hard, too-fast thinking I'm an invincible bad-ass on my NEW bike. Couldn't really raise my arm much, but I could lean on it and felt comfortable on the bars. I've JUST started riding...no way I wanted to quit. The bike seemed ok other than a mild 3-4 shift issue and needing a little tightening up the headset. So what did I do? You guessed it... I kept riding another 10 miles (dumb and risky I realize now). Had a great ride and shoulder pain wasn't horrible.

But, trying to lift this 50 lb bike up onto my hitch-rack....ooouch. Got it on mostly left-handed, but even getting my arm up on the steering wheel was a challenge. It just got worse from there as I discovered the next few days I'd torn 2 of the 4 rotator cuff ligaments off the humeral head. Likely injured the 3rd RC ligament and upper bicep tendon.

Just bought an indoor trainer to hook up to my street bike so I don't become 300 lbs by the time I'm allowed to ride again. Surgery in a week or so, then a loooooong recovery to follow.

My favorite Covid-pastime is now off limits for a few months. It's so sad looking at the Decoy in the corner, all juiced up/green-light and ready to ride. What a shame!

Anyone have a similar RC injury/surgery in the past? How long did you take until you allowed yourself on a bike? I'm thinking stationary, then street bike, then graduate back to MTB.
I feel for you man.

I clipped my left pedal at speed going down steep curved trail in April this year. Result: in a microsecond I was jettisoned off into a creek bed smashing boulders out of the way with my R shoulder and neck, ironically this was only 4 days after having a cortisone shot in my right upper biceps tendon for acute bursitis. I broke my collarbone at the sternum, trashed my A/C Joint and all the ligaments in the right side of my neck.

I had heaps of sick leave up my sleeve so I took 10 weeks off work due to the type of job I have. After about 5 weeks I was slowly able to use my right arm with limited movement but heaps of pain. I decided to tackle some home DIY and painted nearly the whole entire inside of my house, it hurt at first but I reckon using the paint brush and roller was actually good PT and assisted the ligaments to heal quickly with full range of movement. The collarbone break healed rather quickly and was never really painful even from day one. The ligaments in my neck however were the ones that took the longest to get better.

I'm now back on the bike, back at the gym and pain free although my collarbone break looks like a second head. You'll get there, it'll just take time, don't try and rush it.
 
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Jeffsy29

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May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
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Jeffsy29 for now
It happens, seems like you are on to PT which is the key to early release from shoulder injury I have found out twice.

If your bike is truly "juiced up" to go meaning the battery is full you might want to hook it up to the trainer to bleed it down to 70% and check it again in a month to make sure it hasn't gone below 50% so the battery doesn't need PT when you are ready to go back.
@Mabman. I’m not on official PT yet, that comes post-surgery. But I’m doing some of the same exercises with docs permission just to keep things mobile and fluid.

RE: Battery. Are you saying it’s better to discharge the battery under load than keep charging or let it trickledown unplugged? I hadn’t even considered the effect on the battery from my accident!
 

Jeffsy29

New Member
May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
Ride
Jeffsy29 for now
Man! i did the same thing not to long ago, but being younger (33) i tried to live with it and see if it would heal. After 3 grueling months I finally got my butt to physical therapy where i was told i tore tendons in the back of my left rotator cuff. I'm now 8 weeks in with lifting and stretching 3-5lb weights and i would say its about 75% healed up. I went from not being able to reach up to grab salt from the cabinet to being back on my bike and swimming. We actually hit the local bike park yesterday (skypark) and was able to ride all day and have fun (with lots of caution). The most important thing is to stick with the PT exercises and absolutely stop any motions that generate sharp acute pains. It is also VERY important to see the PT weekly and communicate with them every couple days to make sure your are doing the exercises right at home or if there is any throbbing/ swelling. It absolutely sucks doing a week of exercises wrong and having them tell you it did not help or worse set you back. If any one is suffering from injuries in So-Cal i highly recommend Evolution Fitness, they were able to get my out of network insurance to cover the costs and its only $35 a visit which is way cheaper than the other places i went to when i hurt my neck/ right shoulder (surfing accident).
@bigwaves311 - it’s comforting to hear you’re back in the saddle. So are you recovering from surgery or just PT-only? I’m worried that post surgery will be a slower recovery than PT-only injuries due to the wait time prior to PT and gradual ramp up.

Do you ride with any shoulder brace now? I’m looking at a few mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I know they aren’t full-armor, but I may just for peace of mind want a little more shoulder stability and some level of protection beyond a t-shirt.
 

Jeffsy29

New Member
May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
Ride
Jeffsy29 for now
I feel for you man.

I clipped my left pedal at speed going down steep curved trail in April this year. Result: in a microsecond I was jettisoned off into a creek bed smashing boulders out of the way with my R shoulder and neck, ironically this was only 4 days after having a cortisone shot in my right upper biceps tendon for acute bursitis. I broke my collarbone at the sternum, trashed my A/C Joint and all the ligaments in the right side of my neck.
@HORSPWR - Yeaouch! Creek bed/boulders/shoulders makes me cringe. I feel like I just fell again reading your fall scenario. I’m suspecting it was my left pedal too causing the bike to whip hard left and send the rider off the R side. It was split-second and a blur as you describe. At least my landing surface wasn’t rocky.
No broken bones for me, but as the doc commented to me: “If you’re lucky, it’s a small fracture, bones are easier to heal”. Thanks for the wishes
 

leftside

Member
Subscriber
Mar 26, 2020
169
73
Vancouver
Ride
YT Decoy
I've had my fair share of injuries, but shoulder injuries are the worst. At the beginning of last season I had a fall and whacked my shoulder. Didn't feel too bad - thought I'd be riding again in a couple of weeks. Ended up not riding for the rest of the season and just going to the beach and partying. Only buying a Decoy got me back into riding this season.

Shoulders are difficult to protect. I wear a g-form shirt - it provides a little protection.

Crashed again a couple of week ago and landed on my back - luckily an upturned root broke my fall and impaled itself about an inch left of my spine/middle back. Thought I was in real trouble, but managed to get off the trail and get back to the car. Could barely move for 2-3 days. But now I feel almost fine - and will ride next weekend. I'll be riding with a backpack with protection from now on though. My backpacks were getting smaller and smaller....

Injuries can be weird - especially as you get older. Any other future shoulder injuries - and I'm straight off to the physio rather than the beach.
 

Mabman

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
311
173
Oregon USA
@Mabman. I’m not on official PT yet, that comes post-surgery. But I’m doing some of the same exercises with docs permission just to keep things mobile and fluid.

RE: Battery. Are you saying it’s better to discharge the battery under load than keep charging or let it trickledown unplugged? I hadn’t even considered the effect on the battery from my accident!
It is advisable to store batteries at 50-70% of charge. If it's topped off currently it will take quite awhile to trickledown to that and that is where the potential for harm lies, certainly don't leave it on the charger. Easy enough to draw it down using your gauge to roughly 3/4 charge and check it once a month or so and if it goes below 50% hit it with the charger for a bit back up to 70%.

As far as my PT comment it's just good you are aware that you are going to have to buckle down on it to re-gain use after surgery as some just blow that part off and struggle for years with after effects....I didn't do as much as I should have after my first RC surgery and know from experience.
 
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bigwaves311

New Member
Jun 8, 2020
10
3
Southern CA
Ride
2017 Turbo Levo
@bigwaves311 - it’s comforting to hear you’re back in the saddle. So are you recovering from surgery or just PT-only? I’m worried that post surgery will be a slower recovery than PT-only injuries due to the wait time prior to PT and gradual ramp up.

Do you ride with any shoulder brace now? I’m looking at a few mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I know they aren’t full-armor, but I may just for peace of mind want a little more shoulder stability and some level of protection beyond a t-shirt.
I was real worried that surgery was going to be needed, but after the initial consultation the PT was confident i would recover with out it. Turns out she was right. I do not ride with a shoulder brace, but it is definitely something i am considering. I'm actually going to see her tomorrow and will get her opinion on them. She mainly works on athletes and is involved with high contact sports so there should be some good information there. BTW its never to late to get second, even third opinions before getting cut open.
 
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Jeffsy29

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May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
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Jeffsy29 for now
I was real worried that surgery was going to be needed, but after the initial consultation the PT was confident i would recover with out it. Turns out she was right. I do not ride with a shoulder brace, but it is definitely something i am considering. I'm actually going to see her tomorrow and will get her opinion on them. She mainly works on athletes and is involved with high contact sports so there should be some good information there. BTW its never to late to get second, even third opinions before getting cut open.
@bigwaves311 - I'd love to hear what your PT has to recommend for braces or opinions on these: EVS Sports SB04, Demon United X D3O, Leatt. Please let me know what you find out.

Although I'm not quick to jump to surgery (successfully avoided it for back & neck neuropathy knock-wood), I'm pretty confident that there's not much interpretation leeway on my MRI results showing full-thickness tears and multi-cm gaps on the ends of 2 tendons and their respective attachment locations. They just won't reattach on their own and I don't want to wait and risk further atrophy/retraction.

Took a hike in the woods just to get out there, but at this point it's simply exercise....I need to re-learn to enjoy the slower-pace and appreciate details.
 

Jeffsy29

New Member
May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
Ride
Jeffsy29 for now
It is advisable to store batteries at 50-70% of charge. If it's topped off currently it will take quite awhile to trickledown to that and that is where the potential for harm lies, certainly don't leave it on the charger. Easy enough to draw it down using your gauge to roughly 3/4 charge and check it once a month or so and if it goes below 50% hit it with the charger for a bit back up to 70%.
Decoy is mounted in a stand as we speak with a rubber band pushing 'walk' mode to run down the battery. I'm guessing it'll take a least 24hrs to get down to 70% with near-zero load!
 
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steve_sordy

The Wizard 🧙‍♂️
Nov 5, 2018
3,805
343
Grantham, UK
Ride
Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
Ask your PT about KT tape. Kineasiology Therapeutic tape to be precise. Its that stuff all the Olympic athletes have in elaborate patterns all over their body (seems to anyway). I had it on my knees for a while before they got too bad for it to do any good.
 

Jeffsy29

New Member
May 6, 2020
89
18
Rockville MD
Ride
Jeffsy29 for now
Ask your PT about KT tape. Kineasiology Therapeutic tape to be precise. Its that stuff all the Olympic athletes have in elaborate patterns all over their body (seems to anyway). I had it on my knees for a while before they got too bad for it to do any good.
@steve_sordy - Yes! I've used KT on my knees for skiing. That would be easier if they have pre-fab "X" ones for shoulder use. Definitely more low-profile than some of the neoprene braces....
 

steve_sordy

The Wizard 🧙‍♂️
Nov 5, 2018
3,805
343
Grantham, UK
Ride
Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE
After watching my Physio at work, she didn't bother with prefabricated shapes, she could do all she needed with one standard roll. By mistake, I bought a roll of pre-cut tape. It was not only split length-ways but also horizontally. This made it difficult to use. I was glad when I'd used it all up!
 

HORSPWR

E*POWAH Master
May 23, 2019
688
203
Alice Springs, Australia
Ride
Merida e160 900e
@steve_sordy - RC damage is common in the population and we can all be walking around with micro-tears we simply put up with out of lack of diagnosis or outright pain. Did you get an MRI? Sounds very similar to my case but if it was trapped, maybe that causes the same issue.

I'm already looking ahead and wondering how to future-protect that shoulder at minimum. Do you use a brace/support?

I've been looking at these below. Any experience with them?
  • EVS Sports SB04 Shoulder Brace
  • Demon United X D3O
  • Leatt
  • Shoulder Brace
I agree 100% in this, do NOT rely on a PT for your diagnosis. See a specialist and get an MRI/CT scan first. I have had way too many wrong diagnosis from PT's to ever go back to one unless I've seen a specialist first.