So it seems the take-home message is that you can use the app without issue to change settings, but dont try a firmware update (?)I bricked my bike trying to do a firmware update so agree that the experience with the eTube app for that purpose may not be ideal! The problem is that the app corrupts the original firmware in trying to write the new version, so if the update fails you can't access the bike wirelessly. I had to visit a Shimano service centre to get the bike un-bricked and the firmware updated. I certainly wouldn't trust the app for firmware updates in the future. Unfortunately the alternative requires buying a 'black box' from Shimano (and an adaptor to allow the provided cable to attach to the display if you have a bike with an EP8 motor) at a total cost of nearly £200.
Using the app to change settings on the bike has not caused any problems for me so far so I'm happy to continue to use it for this.
HTH
Cheers
Iain
Commencal Meta Power Signature 29 2021early thoughts (TLDR?)
- Thread starter IainF
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #33
Range anxiety update 2(?)
OK, finally got hold of the BTE-80 off-bike battery charger adapter (had to get it from Italy!) and kept the battery inside at home whilst charging it. Disconnected it and reconnected it to the charger a few times when the charging light went off (on reconnecting the charge light comes on again. Whether this means that it charges further or not I don't know).
Had a ride out yesterday in about -2°C, mounting the battery in the bike just before I left. Did 22 miles and 459m climbing, a fair amount through icy/muddy fields that was pretty hard going (esp. for my daughter on a Specialized Epic). Had three bars of battery left when I got home. Rode mostly in Eco with occasional use of Trail for really steep stuff.
Though this is only one ride, the battery seemed to lose its charge more slowly when charged 'warm' even though used 'cold' (though at 26 miles I might well have been back down to 2 bars as before).
I need a few more rides to get a better feel for whether this is genuinely an increase in range or not. In addition, it will be interesting to see how the battery fairs when charged at room temp and ridden in a warmer temperatures.
Cheers
Iain
OK, finally got hold of the BTE-80 off-bike battery charger adapter (had to get it from Italy!) and kept the battery inside at home whilst charging it. Disconnected it and reconnected it to the charger a few times when the charging light went off (on reconnecting the charge light comes on again. Whether this means that it charges further or not I don't know).
Had a ride out yesterday in about -2°C, mounting the battery in the bike just before I left. Did 22 miles and 459m climbing, a fair amount through icy/muddy fields that was pretty hard going (esp. for my daughter on a Specialized Epic
). Had three bars of battery left when I got home. Rode mostly in Eco with occasional use of Trail for really steep stuff. Though this is only one ride, the battery seemed to lose its charge more slowly when charged 'warm' even though used 'cold' (though at 26 miles I might well have been back down to 2 bars as before).
I need a few more rides to get a better feel for whether this is genuinely an increase in range or not. In addition, it will be interesting to see how the battery fairs when charged at room temp and ridden in a warmer temperatures.
Cheers
Iain
Darkyhs
Well-known member
Heya guys, quick update. Had today a 50ish ride in the whole day in Trial mode. So almost full battery for 50 Km's with most flat. Please keep in mind that I am around 90ish kilograms and today was a real muddy day.
- Thread starter
- #35
Did I miss how much charge you had left at the end of the ride?Heya guys, quick update. Had today a 50ish ride in the whole day in Trial mode. So almost full battery for 50 Km's with most flat. Please keep in mind that I am around 90ish kilograms and today was a real muddy day.
View attachment 52903
Darkyhs
Well-known member
Whoops
1 red bar left and showed me 9km left on the screen. Have to say the last bar goes a lot faster. When it turned to the last bar it showed me 38km left, then until my house, it is around 9/10ish km left. So in 10km, it went from 38 to 9.- Thread starter
- #37
Hmm,
sounds like your 50.48Km to almost out of charge in (what I assume are) warmer temperatures is not far off my 40Km in very cold conditions in Trail. I suspect that you might get more range by reducing max. torque in Trail just a little (but that may not be an issue for you)
Still learning at my end...
sounds like your 50.48Km to almost out of charge in (what I assume are) warmer temperatures is not far off my 40Km in very cold conditions in Trail. I suspect that you might get more range by reducing max. torque in Trail just a little (but that may not be an issue for you)
Still learning at my end...
shenchman
New Member
anyone finding the e-spec fox 38 factory to have way too little HSC for big drops even dialed all the way in, & way too much HSR & LSR to make the front end poppy even dialed all the way out?
re compression watch this..
re compression watch this..
- Thread starter
- #39
Did the suspension post disappear?
Anyway, this is all a black art as far as I'm concerned. Really liked the Tuesday Tune videos after following the link and it does look like the 2021 Fox 38 dampers have very different adjustment ranges from the 2020 ones.
I've always thought it was LSC that dictated behaviour in big drops and HSC that looked after trail 'chatter' but very willing to be educated on this.
I've kind of set the forks and shock to 'default' settings (can't remember where I took these from) but will consider making some adjustments based on the TT videos.
Cheers
Iain
Anyway, this is all a black art as far as I'm concerned. Really liked the Tuesday Tune videos after following the link and it does look like the 2021 Fox 38 dampers have very different adjustment ranges from the 2020 ones.
I've always thought it was LSC that dictated behaviour in big drops and HSC that looked after trail 'chatter' but very willing to be educated on this.
I've kind of set the forks and shock to 'default' settings (can't remember where I took these from) but will consider making some adjustments based on the TT videos.
Cheers
Iain
- Thread starter
- #40
Range update.
Milder weather, battery kept indoors whilst charging and put on bike just prior to riding.
51K ride, 594m climbing, 2hrs 37 minutes riding time, 3 bars left by the time I got home. Rode mostly in Eco with brief periods of Trail and Boost.
This is beginning to look a bit more like it.
I think this is temperature related as I didn't spend enough time in Trail (with reduced maximum assist) to make a difference...
Cheers
Iain
Milder weather, battery kept indoors whilst charging and put on bike just prior to riding.
51K ride, 594m climbing, 2hrs 37 minutes riding time, 3 bars left by the time I got home. Rode mostly in Eco with brief periods of Trail and Boost.
This is beginning to look a bit more like it.
I think this is temperature related as I didn't spend enough time in Trail (with reduced maximum assist) to make a difference...
Cheers
Iain
Darkyhs
Well-known member
Same behaviour here, I changed the settings, so that I have 1 ECO profile and 1 more powerful profile on the bike. On trail I had this weekend 2 40 ish Km rides with around 300/400Mt climbing, and I used up only 2 bars before coming home. Huge difference.
On theLeft side are the "new" settings, and on the right the original ones. I feel this is my perfect setup If you check your app you should understand the "clicks". On the climbs I dont feel any difference from the Trail to the Boost
On theLeft side are the "new" settings, and on the right the original ones. I feel this is my perfect setup
If you check your app you should understand the "clicks". On the climbs I dont feel any difference from the Trail to the Boost
shenchman
New Member
if you want to know your battery capacity to the 1% increment instead of the ridiculous 'am i at 80% or 61%' shimano 5 bar disaster as you ride, Garmin 530 works--i have tested it. wahoo etc probably have options too.
support.garmin.com
garmin has a trailforks app too:
Shimano STEPS eBike System and Garmin Device Compatibility | Garmin Customer Support
Garmin Support Center is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.
support.garmin.com
garmin has a trailforks app too:
- Thread starter
- #43
Brilliant, I always have a Garmin for all my rides, so I'll check that out.if you want to know your battery capacity to the 1% increment instead of the ridiculous 'am i at 80% or 61%' shimano 5 bar disaster as you ride, Garmin 530 works--i have tested it. wahoo etc probably have options too.
Shimano STEPS eBike System and Garmin Device Compatibility | Garmin Customer Support
Garmin Support Center is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.
garmin has a trailforks app too:
Is there a way to record how much time you spend in each setting (Eco/Trail/Boost) with the Garmin?
I'm not completely over the 'range anxiety' but getting there...
Thanks again for that
- Thread starter
- #44
I haven't messed with the different profiles too much but that's interesting. I still like Boost for short super steep 'step up' type climbs otherwise I agree that Trail is fine for pretty much everything else, especially if you're willing to spin a fastish cadence.Same behaviour here, I changed the settings, so that I have 1 ECO profile and 1 more powerful profile on the bike. On trail I had this weekend 2 40 ish Km rides with around 300/400Mt climbing, and I used up only 2 bars before coming home. Huge difference.
On theLeft side are the "new" settings, and on the right the original ones. I feel this is my perfect setup
View attachment 54538
Do you swap profiles mid-ride or do you pick a profile for the type of trail and distance?
shenchman
New Member
I think this app does that
Darkyhs
Well-known member
So you cant change them mid-ride, but you can stop to change them. You need to stand still for a couple of seconds until you can go into the settings and change. I basically have set it up so that Profile 1 is a bit more powerful and usable for most of my type of rides. If you look @ Eco Mode in the factory settings it has a very low assist. Making the steps between the settings more abrubt. This(in my opinion) makes more sense for me personally. As if I want low settings I could use the second profile.
The second profile is more thought to be for an epic day out. When battery preservation is more important than speed
Hope it helps man
Darkyhs
Well-known member
azzwethinkweiz
Member
After putting many more miles on the bike I have found the range in eco, even with a lot of climbing is actually really impressive to me on this bike. The only problem is if you use one of the other two assist modes much during the same ride and then go back to eco mode later, it will seem like you're getting no assist. I went on a couple rides with my buddies who admittedly are in way better shape than me (cross country racers) and I rode in eco basically then whole time and made it pretty fun. Still had to work really hard to keep up with them on normal bikes. I guess I am the stereotype of the e-bike rider -_-
Still a total blast.
Still a total blast.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #50
I think from a range point of view this is the solution. I'm kinda coming round to the Eco as default mode and trail for steep climbs (though you can spin up in Eco) and Boost for super steep climbs. This seems to work OK. I've wondered about increasing assist in Eco by one 'notch' but haven't tried that...
"The battery charge indicator drops slowly to 2 bars rapidly from 2 to 1 and then almost immediately goes to zero. "
I was going to post a new thread, but see it is covered here - I'm getting exactly the same problem, and I've updated all the firmware to the latest version with the E-Tube app and updated my Garmin to the latest software.
With my Garmin attached I can see more clearly what is happening. As others have stated, going from 5 bars to 2 bars (100% to 40% on the Garmin), everything appears to be ok. But, I''ve seen my Garmin go from 30% straight to 2%! The display on the Meta also goes straight from 2 bars to red. Is this normal? Hell no. I also have a YT Decoy with E8000 that I also use the Garmin with. It goes from 30%, 29%, 28%, 26%, etc in 1% increments (obviously more slowly in eco, faster in boost).
Guys, there is a problem here with the EP8 motor and/or Shimano battery! If you are seeing this happen, I think we all need to complain? We are being robbed of 25% battery/range. I'm in contact with Commencal. They've told me the next time I go to Squamish I can borrow one of their spare batteries and see what happens on my ride with the Garmin attached.
I also have the Shimano SM-PCE02. As mentioned, Shimano now use smaller ports on the display, so I also needed to order an adapter. Hopefully that adapter will arrive soon and I can plug the bike into the SM-PCE02 and see what is going on.
@Rob Rides EMTB are you seeing this battery problem with other bikes that are using the EP8?
E8000 motors are the same in regards to the battery bars not being equal and once the display/LEDs drop to two bars it'll very quickly then go to one, then flashing red then steady red. (off)
But with the E8000 the battery percentage metric in the Ebike page when paired to my garmin is spot on and goes down evenly. (not talking about the STEPS page battery bars graphic).
One difference with my set up is I don't have a shimano display at all and instead use the EW EN-100 junction box which sends all the data to the garmin straight from the motor via BT LE so I suppose the issue could be with the EP8 head unit firmware.
I'm not sure how you'd think it was a hardware issue. Batteries just don't discharge like that
But with the E8000 the battery percentage metric in the Ebike page when paired to my garmin is spot on and goes down evenly. (not talking about the STEPS page battery bars graphic).
One difference with my set up is I don't have a shimano display at all and instead use the EW EN-100 junction box which sends all the data to the garmin straight from the motor via BT LE so I suppose the issue could be with the EP8 head unit firmware.
I'm not sure how you'd think it was a hardware issue. Batteries just don't discharge like that
Let me give another real example that happens all the time on my local mountain.
Decoy with E8000. Garmin shows 30% battery left, 900 meters elevation completed, 20km distance completed and estimates I have 10km distance remaining. 2 bars on Shimano display. Battery drains consistently and I end up riding 28km, 1100m elevation and only a few % left on the battery being shown on the Garmin. Shimano display at 1 bar.
Meta Power with EP8. Garmin shows 30% battery left, 900 meters elevation completed, 20km distance completed and estimates I have 10km distance remaining. 2 bars on Shimano display. Battery drains very quickly and I end up riding 21km, 950m elevation. Garmin shows battery go straight from 30% to 2%. Shimano display goes very quickly from 2 bars to flashing red.
Decoy with E8000. Garmin shows 30% battery left, 900 meters elevation completed, 20km distance completed and estimates I have 10km distance remaining. 2 bars on Shimano display. Battery drains consistently and I end up riding 28km, 1100m elevation and only a few % left on the battery being shown on the Garmin. Shimano display at 1 bar.
Meta Power with EP8. Garmin shows 30% battery left, 900 meters elevation completed, 20km distance completed and estimates I have 10km distance remaining. 2 bars on Shimano display. Battery drains very quickly and I end up riding 21km, 950m elevation. Garmin shows battery go straight from 30% to 2%. Shimano display goes very quickly from 2 bars to flashing red.
Yeah. My point was. Batteries generally don't discharge straight from 30% to 2%
- Thread starter
- #57
I'm afraid I can't give you much more information. I separated my shoulder in a crash after 'casing' a jump a couple of months ago (sounds bigger and cleverer than it actually was) and haven't been back on any kind of MTB since (hoping to restart gently again soon). I definitely felt that battery performance was improved in the warmer weather but that (in any weather) once you get to three bars on the battery you'd better be heading home 'cos once you hit two bars you're only a few minutes away from one red bar and then on your own.
Hope you weren't caught in the recent floods!
Cheers
Iain
PS I haven't checked to see if there are any further firmware updates because I managed to set my bike to think it's in the US (well after my posts on this forum) and I don't want to risk going back to the 15mph limit. Even on a heavy ebike on flat single track I can hit this speed no problem and the on/off again assist is a pain. Around 20mph is much better and approximates the speed I'd rather be going on the flat. I don't think that this impacts the battery much because the amount of time spent exceeding 15mph is pretty small...
Sorry to hear about your shoulder. Unfortunately the floods are very bad here, and it hasn't stopped raining. We're in the middle of another storm:
I hope your shoulder improves - keep going with the physio is my first-hand advice.
Concerning the EP8, bars and battery dropping from 30% -> 2% very quickly, I don’t have that experience.
I do see the last bar lasting less than the first four - about 40% as long as the previous 4 bars. If it’s cold, the battery endurance is reduced by a few %, but the pattern of discharge for each bar is unchanged. I’ve seen other reports on forums saying the same as I find, but irritatingly can’t find those with a quick look, sorry.
Here’s what I find on a trail I ride regularly (the exact figures are different on other trails, but tell the same story).
On one trail that uses up battery for me fairly uniformly, I get roughly 10km and 500ft climbing for each of the first 4 bars.
And then for that last bar, I’m only getting slightly less than half of that (about 5km and 300ft on that ride).
This is all repeatable and fairly frequently tested because I have two batteries which I use on longer rides, for example going round this trail twice (it doesn’t need all of both batteries). So, I do ride the first battery to empty on this ride - I’ve seen forum posts saying riding to empty is unwise, but battery health is holding up well.
Its been mentioned it might be the display firmware and that might be correct. My bike has the black and white unit (SC-E7000), not the colour one (SC-EM800).
I’ve used all this year’s firmware updates for the various parts of the system including the motor and none have altered how the battery discharges.
Get well and keep up the physio
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I've also posted on the general forum in case others with the EP8 have seen similar problems with their bikes. I also have the SC-E7000 on the Decoy, and SC-EM800 on the Meta. But, I have the same Garmin attached to both bikes. I've created two profiles on the Garmin - one called 'Meta' that obviously detects the Meta battery and motor and one called 'Decoy' that detects the Decoy battery and motor.
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