Bosch Gen4 gets more power, is faster than Turbo Levo in drag race

[MrBrownstone]

Yes I rarely use Turbo & unless on a smooth long uphill I find the way Turbo kicks in & out to be a pain in the arse.

feathering your brakes works wonders to control turbo mode in steep techy twisty areas.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

feathering your brakes works wonders to control turbo mode in steep techy twisty areas.

Yes I don't usually use it however found it quite intermittent when I accidently left it on for a tight techy uphill. I guess that is why the update is there, more range of usability - maybe after the update I'll just leave it in turbo, hang on & launch to the top!!

 

[MrBrownstone]

Yes I don't usually use it however found it quite intermittent when I accidently left it on for a tight techy uphill. I guess that is why the update is there, more range of usability - maybe after the update I'll just leave it in turbo, hang on & launch to the top!!

FAST IS FUN BRAAAAP!!!!?

 

[Slowroller]

I don't understand, how can one 250w motor be faster than another 250w motor?

Just kidding, but I do find it odd they lie through their teeth about the wattage number but are such sticklers for the MPH numbers. I keep expecting one of them to put out a bike that lets you do 40mph* (Top speed limited to average 15mph, including time charging your bike in your garage). I mean, really, what is the relationship to the 250w in the spec at this point?

 

[Aitrui]

I don't understand, how can one 250w motor be faster than another 250w motor?

Just kidding, but I do find it odd they lie through their teeth about the wattage number but are such sticklers for the MPH numbers. I keep expecting one of them to put out a bike that lets you do 40mph* (Top speed limited to average 15mph, including time charging your bike in your garage). I mean, really, what is the relationship to the 250w in the spec at this point?

As I know the 250watt specification is an average power, which is the approximately power needed to keep 25km/h speed at flat surfaces with a bike, in ideal conditions, so this is the correlation between the advertised 250watt vs 25km/h limit . You can check the the attached graph.

I have a Bluetooth tuning dongle for my gen2 CX engine, which can check/log the data available in the CAN network, and the max motor output power I logged was 680 watt.

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

Is that with 100% Acceleration in Turbo on the Levo? Hmmm

 

[David Hemming]

Thanks for the update on this. With so much back to back testing of motors, I would be keen to know the riders (You) stats In heart rate when you do this. Technically with more power you should have a lower heart rate and go quicker as the results you have reported.

 

[Akiwi]

I just watched the EMBN video where Steve was comparing the speed of the old and updated motor.
Iwas very surprised at 7:02 minutes in, he compares the speed of Eco mode, and found that the new Eco mode is much faster.
I'm not sure if I am happy with that. If I am trying to extend my battery range then I need to be riding with as little power consumption and therefore speed as possible. If Eco has been boosted so much, it is going to take a big bite into our big rides, particularly how high we can ride on a battery.

 

[Doomanic]

That doesn't tie in with the screen shot I posted earlier in the thread. I wonder how much is just rider perception and/or confirmation bias.

 

[Darren66]

That doesn't tie in with the screen shot I posted earlier in the thread. I wonder how much is just rider perception and/or confirmation bias.

That's right, Bosch says 85Nm is only available in turbo mode, so eco should be no different?

 

[natwilaniwartri]

great news for me as new cube own like well December 10th 2019, like waited 2 moths as used scottish loan 3000 limit so i be able get updates for both motor and kiox , i enjoyed the video too xx

 

[PhilBaker]

So have we got to conclusive proof the new update only applies to Turbo mode? For the extra Torque part as I assume the Boost update would apply to any mode?

I must admit from Steve's video in Eco mode my assumption was that instead of Eco giving him 60% of 75Nm he was now getting 60% of 85Nm and so some improvement.

It would be funny if his entire improved time was just down to the placebo effect ?. If that's the case then I have a gift for you all.
"Hey everyone, your motor manufacturer just updated all of your motors over night to give you 10 extra Nm of torque, so all get out there and enjoy those super fast times you can now do". Your welcome...

 

[Helim]

 

[PhilBaker]

So is that saying only EMTB mode give you the Extended Boost functionality?

So Turbo give's you extra Torque, EMTB mode Extra Boost and nothing for Tour mode and Eco mode? Or do they get easy start and powerful speed up hills (which are shown under the 85Nm Torque section of the flyer)?

Just seems strange some of this would only apply to Turbo mode as I'm not sure that's the most commonly used mode. It's like Bosch have announced "Exclusive additional power for the mode people use the least amount of time!"...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

So is that saying only EMTB mode give you the Extended Boost functionality?

So Turbo give's you extra Torque, EMTB mode Extra Boost and nothing for Tour mode and Eco mode? Or do they get easy start and powerful speed up hills (which are shown under the 85Nm Torque section of the flyer)?

Just seems strange some of this would only apply to Turbo mode as I'm not sure that's the most commonly used mode. It's like Bosch have announced "Exclusive additional power for the mode people use the least amount of time!"...

From my Press Release from Bosch:
"
Master challenging riding situations
As the benchmark in the eMTB sector, the Performance Line CX typifies pure trail riding enjoyment. This includes the ability to accelerate quickly and powerfully even at low cadences, as well as being able to perform standing starts on the steepest of terrains. These characteristics are getting better still with maximum torque increased to 85 Nm in both eMTB and Turbo modes. The performance upgrade offers full power over a broad cadence range. "This enables unpredictable riding situations to be mastered even more effectively," explains Claus Fleischer, CEO of Bosch eBike Systems. "Delayed gear shifting, for example, is better compensated and acceleration out of tight turns is much more powerful and dynamic." This also means eMountain bikers will have more power readily available in particularly technical sections. In addition, the riding experience feels absolutely natural and free from jolts, even when standing on the pedals or in Turbo mode.

Also, prizes go to Bosch for the most confusing graphs ?

 

[Helim]

Btw, as soon as I will update mine, I will test the endurance on my personal school track... usually I come back home with 10%-11% battery left using emtb all the time.

Dunno but I guess that I will not come back home safe

 

[PhilBaker]

From my Press Release from Bosch:
"
Master challenging riding situations
As the benchmark in the eMTB sector, the Performance Line CX typifies pure trail riding enjoyment. This includes the ability to accelerate quickly and powerfully even at low cadences, as well as being able to perform standing starts on the steepest of terrains. These characteristics are getting better still with maximum torque increased to 85 Nm in both eMTB and Turbo modes. The performance upgrade offers full power over a broad cadence range. "This enables unpredictable riding situations to be mastered even more effectively," explains Claus Fleischer, CEO of Bosch eBike Systems. "Delayed gear shifting, for example, is better compensated and acceleration out of tight turns is much more powerful and dynamic." This also means eMountain bikers will have more power readily available in particularly technical sections. In addition, the riding experience feels absolutely natural and free from jolts, even when standing on the pedals or in Turbo mode.

Also, prizes go to Bosch for the most confusing graphs ?

View attachment 34817

Thanks Rob, very useful and glad the extra Torque is in EMTB as well. Interestingly Tour mode used to be 100% assistance where as this graph now shows 140% assistance..

Also good there is no extra Torque in Eco and Tour as we all like to have a bit extra battery from time to time!

 

[Doomanic]

Performance Line CX: the most sporty Bosch motor for eMTBs

The best eMountain bike experiences: a powerful drive with unique dynamics and the best possible traction on trails thanks to the 85-Nm Performance Line CX.

www.bosch-ebike.com

This is where the screenshot I posted came from, it clearly states 85Nm in Turbo and 75Nm in EMTB. Bosch need to give their website monkeys and tech monkeys a slap and tell them to communicate more...

 

[Doomanic]

@Rob Hancill did you get a chance to see the version number of the update?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Hancill did you get a chance to see the version number of the update?

Yes, but mine was a pre release software and I’m not sure if it means that it is correct. If I remember it was 1.0.4

 

[Doomanic]

Thanks, I'd guessed that would be the number. Do you have any info on the release date?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thanks, I'd guessed that would be the number. Do you have any info on the release date?

No more info that I’ve received from Bosch since the original press release.

 

[cshumphries]

Picked up my Trek Rail 7 from my LBS this afteroon and they had just received the update from Bosch as I walked in. So was customer number one to get the update. Version is showing V1.4.0.0. Looking forward to trying it out!!

 

[Doomanic]

That’s the Display version number. The DU number you should be looking for is 1.1.0.0

 

[cshumphries]

My bad. DU number is 1.1.0.0

 

[jeroen]

I yesterday rode a Trek Rail 9 LBS test-bike that did not have the update; pickup on a steep hill was good, but... the Rail 9 I bought today does have the update and, well, the steepness of the hill is irrelevant: turbo it, low gear, drop post, get on the bike, and cycle away..... changing gears quickly of course and getting out of turbo as it is rarely needed. EMTB mode also felt different and more responsive.

As such, I think the new version is a great update; though disclaimer: only rode for a few hours on both; comparison to other bikes even with CX is hard due to different setups and trails taken.

 

[BrentD]

My LBS phoned today to advise that the new firmware is available for my Trek Rail 9.8 and did I want to book it in to be done. Will be in there first thing they open in the morning and picked up on the way home from work the same afternoon. Can't wait!

 

[KeithO]

Mine’s booked in at Bosch LBS for drop off next Wednesday and pick up the following Saturday!! ?

guess I’ll have to wait ?

 

[PhilBaker]

What sort of a price are people paying (other than those who have brought new bikes recently from their LBS)?

 

[Paul Mac]

Got mine updated today, cost me £10 from a local dealer who didn't supply the bike.
Makes a nice difference ?
Much stronger on the take off, I can pull a wheelie in emtb mode on the first push of the pedal!
Hope doesn't impact the battery too much.